Jan 1, 2021 18:29:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 1, 2021 16:45:06 GMT Big Pete said:

Booker/HHH was a lose/lose situation. Booker had no momentum behind him, but HHH had beaten everyone else and since Austin was booked to wrestle The Rock it left them with no option. They had Booker win by a total shock and tried to really play the underdog angle up but they went too far with the heat. In hindsight (or total foresight) it should have been Shawn Michaels defending the World Championship against Chris Jericho (or in my ideal version of events, Rob Van Dam) with Evolution (provided the Dudleyz don't injure Randy) face off against a credible babyface outfit who all have a bone to pick with Evolution.

Also it meant that HHH's HCTP model had hot pink trunks which was just an eye-sore. It instantly loses a point for that and another for not being made by AKI.

I've touched on Wrestlemania XIX plenty of times, but the entire event is tempered by the state of PPVs and SmackDown in Australia. It very much felt like the WWE pushing SmackDown as the superior brand with Angle/Lesnar as the main event and McMahon/Hogan as the big selling point. The only Raw match with any decent build behind it was Jericho/Michaels. The Rock was amazing during this time period and his segments were among the best I've seen in the WWE, but it was awkward watching the WWE walk back their animosity towards Austin and the feud felt really thrown together.

Bottom line, Austin/Lesnar should have been the main event of Wrestlemania. Brock as the dominant champion runs through everyone but one man, the Texas Rattlesnake Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Jan 1, 2021 16:47:27 GMT @ness said:

I always liked the idea behind a clean shaven, bright colored trunks HHH.

Lump me in this camp. But I'd call HHH's WMXIX trunks more of a pastel lavender than a hot pink. Also, part of me got some Greg Valentine vs. Junkyard Dog vibes from this match. Maybe they were going for an homage to the first-ever IC title match at Mania like HBK/Y2J were going for a bit of a Savage/Steamboat homage? I dunno...

Anyway, I fucking LOVE Big Pete 's idea for Lesnar/Austin as THE main event at WMXIX. Absolutely should've happened. With Rock setting aside his personal beefs to give us Rock/HBK as a co-main event. Or, if Rock can't do that, then Rock/Lesnar II with the face and heel dynamics now reversed and Austin/Hogan.

DUUUUUUUUUUDE. The ic belt remark is ON POINT because it was totally booked as a midcard belt.

In real time and even now looking back, I do think it's a pretty damning testament that WWE's biggest selling points were Rock/Austin III and even over that Vince/Hogan.

Feels like that confirms Shawn's return did as much to move the needle as his original run on top in 1996, HHH's return pop the previous year in MSG burned up the rest of his star power fuel, Taker and Kurt were old hat, and Brock without UFC legitimacy wasn't compelling enough for the casuals or main stream. And yet, they stuck with this direction (replacing Lesnar with the Cena/Orton/Batista experiment) for at least another half decade after WMXIX.

Hardcore Hogan should've been a thing either leading into or coming out of the street fight.

Are the leg drop off the ladder through the announce table, the epic blade jobs, Vince's devilish facials, and the Piper surprise enough to put Vince/Hogan ahead of Rock/Hogan?

It has to be infuriating for McMahon to be more yoked (at least in 2003) than probably 95% of the current roster today.

Vince/Hogan at WM19 really feels like Rock/Hogan from WM18 multiplied by Vince/Shane from WM17.

I forgot about the post-match appearance of a suited Shane and staredown with Hogan. Wonder if they had plans to build to something?

Love dead bloody Vince sitting up just enough to flip Hogan one last bird.

Honestly, I feel like Rock/Austin III would've had way higher stakes had they added a career vs. career stip.

A thought occurring to me as I watch this...

Had they gone with HHH/Austin at WM18, then they should've gone with Rock/Austin/HHH at WM19.

Build is returning Austin wants his win back over HHH in one more round, as losing last year clearly wrecked him mentally. Rock wants WrestleMania redemption as well with a pinfall on Austin. HHH feels disrespected as the overshadowed heel champion and goes after both face Austin and tweener Rock. Bischoff, trying to book the biggest match he can for RAW to counter Vince/Hogan, makes it a triple threat between the three men who represent headliners from the past five WrestleManias.

Rock pins Austin to win the title. Sets him up to drop it to an incoming Goldberg at Backlash. HHH is protected, feels cheated out of his coveted WHC, and now Goldberg faces a new spin on his winning formula of an undefeated streak. Instead of squashing jobbers to stack W's for an inflated record, now he has to hang onto the title despite challenges from the likes of HHH & Evolution... unmasked monster Kane... a bully heel Scott Steiner... cool heel Kevin Nash... the cunning and conniving Chris Jericho & Christian... Super strong fatties like 3MW & Mark Henry.

Jan 2, 2021 14:15:36 GMT 🤯 said:

A thought occurring to me as I watch this...

Had they gone with HHH/Austin at WM18, then they should've gone with Rock/Austin/HHH at WM19.

Build is returning Austin wants his win back over HHH in one more round, as losing last year clearly wrecked him mentally. Rock wants WrestleMania redemption as well with a pinfall on Austin. HHH feels disrespected as the overshadowed heel champion and goes after both face Austin and tweener Rock. Bischoff, trying to book the biggest match he can for RAW to counter Vince/Hogan, makes it a triple threat between the three men who represent headliners from the past five WrestleManias.

Rock pins Austin to win the title. Sets him up to drop it to an incoming Goldberg at Backlash. HHH is protected, feels cheated out of his coveted WHC, and now Goldberg faces a new spin on his winning formula of an undefeated streak. Instead of squashing jobbers to stack W's for an inflated record, now he has to hang onto the title despite challenges from the likes of HHH & Evolution... unmasked monster Kane... a bully heel Scott Steiner... cool heel Kevin Nash... the cunning and conniving Chris Jericho & Christian... Super strong fatties like 3MW & Mark Henry.

Thinking more on this... Really, the rest of WrestleMania can stay the same. You don't really lose anything. Booker doesn't get buried, and in fact as a make-good to him... Scratch the Miller Lite cat fight bullshit and do the Battle Royal for the reinstated IC belt at WM19 with Booker winning.

Anyone have any insight on why world champions made their entrances before the challengers for the first time in WrestleMania history at WM19?

Brock's torso is so short his rib tape looks like a white karate belt.

Wish the opening to this had been more of a photocopy of Benoit/Angle from WM17. This sequence is too "pro wrestling" wrestling.

There are some seeds of good ideas in Kurt/Brock, and Tazz is absolutely the best commentator to call this match.

SPLADLE! SPLADLE! SPLADLE!

Would Brock/Kurt be more, less, or equally memorable had he landed the SSP?

Man, especially with Brock not moving right away after the match, definitely in real time I thought I'd just witnessed another SummerSlam 1997 incident.

Updating:

1. WrestleMania 17
2. WrestleMania 3
3. WrestleMania 14
4. WrestleMania 19
5. WrestleMania 13
6. WrestleMania 8
7. WrestleMania 7
8. WrestleMania 18
9. WrestleMania 6
10. WrestleMania 5
11. WrestleMania 10
12. WrestleMania 1
13. WrestleMania 4
14. WrestleMania 12
15. WrestleMania 15
16. WrestleMania 16
17. WrestleMania 2
18. WrestleMania 9
19. WrestleMania 11

This is one Mania where I can almost buy the desperate sell of "triple main events"!. Rock/Austin seemed to be the main TV selling point, the ads and PR were all about Vince/Hogan and the actual last match was Brock/Angle. I get making title matches the last match on principle, but they really need to call audibles about the booking. They haven't been shy to do it before (WM8).

Jan 2, 2021 14:52:56 GMT 🤯 said:

Would Brock/Kurt be more, less, or equally memorable had he landed the SSP?

More. It would have been a 290 pound babyface winning the WWE Championship with a jaw dropping move in the main event of Wrestlemania. Fans would fondly remember it and WWE would hype it to the moon when both guys were on good terms with the company.

Jan 2, 2021 16:23:20 GMT Baker said:

Jan 2, 2021 14:52:56 GMT 🤯 said:

Would Brock/Kurt be more, less, or equally memorable had he landed the SSP?

More. It would have been a 290 pound babyface winning the WWE Championship with a jaw dropping move in the main event of Wrestlemania. Fans would fondly remember it and WWE would hype it to the moon when both guys were on good terms with the company.

Good point.

I wonder who the agent was for the match. It seemed to really lack coherent structure or any real flow to me. Or I wonder how much was just fucked because of Kurt's condition. Like, the story of the match should've been wrestling oneupsmanship. So to make the SSP more logical, would've been perfect to have Kurt go for and possibly even land for once his trademark moonsault. But given his neck was hanging by a thread...

First time rewatching WMXX since original real time viewing.

Curious to see if I'm any less mad this many years removed that I didn't get my proper Benoit/Lesnar II blow-off.

Hugo Savinovich is one ugly sonuvabich.

Seeing Doctor of Thuganomics Cena is so jarring.

EDIT: Never mind. I can't see him.

Michael Cole just said Big Show retired Hulk Hogan in Madison Square Garden!?!?

Can anyone fact check this absurd claim?

This crowd is not as hot as I remember.

Were Sgt. Slaughter's Cobra Clutch and Ted DiBiase's Million Dollar Dream the same hold?

Oh shit, I didn't remember Show kicking out of the FU. I thought that was the finish. LOL

Second FU after the chain shot looked way better executed anyway. Seems like Cena had to do all the work/heavy lifting on the first one.

Anyway...

For the record, F5ing Show with more snap is far more impressive than a sluggish FU. Even if Edge eventually ends up on Show's shoulders.

Is Coach the whitest black guy ever? Like, he makes Carlton seem like New Jack.

Jan 4, 2021 22:38:15 GMT 🤯 said:

Were Sgt. Slaughter's Cobra Clutch and Ted DiBiase's Million Dollar Dream the same hold?

Yes. It was also called the Shinninomaki in some territories. 

I didn't realize Orton was punting people as early as 2003.

EDIT: what's with these stupid fucking camera angles?!