Jul 14, 2021 15:27:42 GMT UT said:

I remember watching in real time having no fucking clue who this guy is or why he was important. I mean they made him effective and the Crossface Chickenwing might be the most feared submission in the history of my backyard/living room wrestling days. We even banned it for the longest time. Can't argue he wasn't effective but also can't argue that couldn't have been Borga given the same push.

Also looking at it from the Wrestling 101 perspective, what did it accomplish? It didn't draw well, it didn't yield a satisfying conclusion at WM11, and even in the period between him as transitional fodder for Diesel and WM11 I don't remember a single thing he did, and then the run was pretty much over after WM11, anyway. Would have been better fundamentals for that Bret Hart opponent run to be a heel Luger, or truly elevate Hall to main event status, or yes, even Ludwig Borga, someone that the fans of that day were invested in, and who would benefit by sticking around after the program having now been in a main event feud against the #1 OR #2 babyface in the company. 

It's almost a precursor to what the WWE does now by bringing someone back for a big Wrestlemania match, now that I think about it, except no one cared about Bob Backlund, so it's not like they even got the temporary bump of business out of it. 

DUMB. DUMB. DUMB. Think the Backlund defenders are getting too cute justifying it when all that matters is:

1. Did it draw dimes? No.

2. Was as it at least good? Also, no. Even the defenders admit WM11 was a disaster, although it's apparently all Piper's fault, not that it should never have even been happening. 

---
Everyone acknowledges the string of Bret opponents in '95 was horrible, but goddamn, wasn't it always?

Wins the belt, gets midcarder Shawn as his first PPV defense, then just got into the company Razor in the next, an extended Lawler program (legendary as he is, was mostly known to the WWF audience as a fucking commentator and was very confusing to a young me) that doesn't even get the proper blowout because Lawler is a creep, saddled with Yokozuna for two straight Wrestlemanias, and minus Owen (the only good program, but has to be mentioned, midcarder for life), here we are in Bob Backlund time already bringing us into 1995, "the bad period." Fuck. It's a miracle The Hitman stayed over with that run, truly the best there is, was, ever will be. 

All pretty spot on , and it was literally a submission hold that was over more so than the guy. They could have ran that gimmick with a number of people and I don’t doubt it would have worked just as well.

Looking forward to getting more into that era because I want to see how it plays now that I’m not 8 years old but on the surface and after Kilgores points I can’t help but wonder why again.

What about even a heel Crush at that point? Put over his skull crushing move huge , let him injure people with it and see where it goes. Bret was always a great opponent for big men wrestlers.

Jul 14, 2021 22:50:09 GMT UT said:

All pretty spot on , and it was literally a submission hold that was over more so than the guy. They could have ran that gimmick with a number of people and I don’t doubt it would have worked just as well.

Imagine Heel Luger, bitter that the fans chose the Canadian over the American, jacked AS FUCK, almost killing jobbers with the crossface chicken wing. 

Jul 14, 2021 23:20:09 GMT Kilgore said:

Jul 14, 2021 22:50:09 GMT UT said:

All pretty spot on , and it was literally a submission hold that was over more so than the guy. They could have ran that gimmick with a number of people and I don’t doubt it would have worked just as well.

Imagine Heel Luger, bitter that the fans chose the Canadian over the American, jacked AS FUCK, almost killing jobbers with the crossface chicken wing. 

That would work for me , I was always more on board with heel Luger. Don’t even have to be the cross face. Keep the torture rack and have him “break” a few dudes backs or neck and injure them and it’s probably just as effective and even a minor twist on the loaded forearm gimmick.

Just even on the Crush point , he’s not even my guy at this point but imagine his finisher squeezing the head and they start putting blood capsules in his hands and give the impression the ears are dripping blood and dude is seriously injured. And it would be scary as hell.

I guess the main point is that they probably could have slapped the finisher angle on a number of guys and it could have worked. Just Backlund is the weird choice.

Torture Rack works too, just have always found it an anticlimactic finish. Something about a dude standing for a finisher is just ugly. Need to be really wrenching back close to the ground, looking exhausted, that's the good stuff.

All this pining for heel Luger is weird. I never bought as a guy that could be at the top of the card. A segment of the fan base thought Hulk Hogan would be the guy to slam Yoko but, they got Lex instead.

Baker-man! We have reached the in ring debut of one Double J!

Jul 15, 2021 0:16:49 GMT Ed said:

All this pining for heel Luger is weird. I never bought as a guy that could be at the top of the card. A segment of the fan base thought Hulk Hogan would be the guy to slam Yoko but, they got Lex instead.

Heel Luger comes off way more natural than All American Lex in the WWF - even if he had some good fire as a baby face.

He proved in WCW he could work big programs as a face.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if that dumb rumor Lex was winning @ X was true and the only reason they went with Bret is because Lex "spoiled" the show?

Even as a kid, I never got the fixation with Borga. I barely remember him doing anything outside of squash matches.

Jul 15, 2021 0:25:49 GMT Ed said:

Even as a kid, I never got the fixation with Borga. I barely remember him doing anything outside of squash matches.

He ended Tatankas streak and was in the main event of Survivor Series in one of the better angles of the year. Other than that it was mostly squashes but you could literally say that for everyone - it’s always squashes and it’s beautiful.

I don’t love him like Baker loves him but there is … something there. He’s solid in the ring and cute a good arrogant foreign heel promo and got some heat and had a good spot on the roster for most his run.


Of fuck yeah! Thurman Plugg vignette!

That was a great Superstars!

- Jarrett Debut
- Bret speaks about Owen
- Thurman Plugg vignette
- Tour of Takers shop thing
- Steiner squash

One of the better ones in awhile.

Jul 15, 2021 0:22:40 GMT @ness said:

Wouldn't it be hilarious if that dumb rumor Lex was winning @ X was true and the only reason they went with Bret is because Lex "spoiled" the show?

This is the story I choose to believe. 

You guys are killing me with the Mr. Backlund hate. Though I did get a kick out of UT & Kilgore trying to soften the blow by proposing known Baker guys Borga & heel Luger as Backlund substitutes. Well played, gentlemen. Unfortunately I'm running low on logical defenses of Mr. Backlund. Shot my best shot last night.

All I have left is "I personally liked it" and "never underestimate the power of neighborhood popularity." That Mr. Backlund run was a big thing here.  Even my older friend's cool older friends were into Mr. Backlund and the Crossface Chickenwing. Mr. Backlund (and Undertaker sightings~!) kicked off another mini-boom period here, albeit not as big as The Lex Express, and nowhere near as big as Horowitz Wins. 

But the Chickenwing was briefly the bane of our school hallways. So much so that my principal once came on over the intercom to announce THE CROSSFACE CHICKENWING HAS BEEN BANNED! And any student caught using it from here on out will be IMMEDIATLY SUSPENDED! Come on! You can't get much more over than that! Can you imagine how hard Matt The IRS Fan and I marked out to hear our stodgy old principal actually namedrop the Chickenwing? Can you imagine how hard YOU would have marked out, even as Backlund haters, to hear that? Giggling like a pair of schoolgirls Matt and I were. And I'm sure we weren't the only ones. I've mentioned all this before, but that's only because it's legitimately one of my fondest school memories.

UT Appreciate the enthusiasm for Double J's debut. I felt the same way in late 1993! But I'm afraid I've got some bad news. Double J is a lousy squasher who takes a while to settle on a finish and doesn't do much of note for a good 6 months. 

Jul 15, 2021 0:30:12 GMT UT said:

Jul 15, 2021 0:25:49 GMT Ed said:

Even as a kid, I never got the fixation with Borga. I barely remember him doing anything outside of squash matches.

He ended Tatankas streak and was in the main event of Survivor Series in one of the better angles of the year. Other than that it was mostly squashes but you could literally say that for everyone - it’s always squashes and it’s beautiful.

I don’t love him like Baker loves him but there is … something there. He’s solid in the ring and cute a good arrogant foreign heel promo and got some heat and had a good spot on the roster for most his run.

Of fuck yeah! Thurman Plugg vignette!

UT nailed it. 

Even back in the day I thought Thurman "Sparky" Plugg was Wrestlecrap. It's also an underrated contender for Worst Ring Name. Thurman "Sparky" Plugg...ugh.

But you did solve another mystery for me. I never could remember exactly when Well Dunn & Bob Holly debuted.

That’s a great story Baker! That move was devastating! I don’t want to erase Backlund because I’d have to erase my memories.

The first JJ squash wasn’t terrible but you’re right about the finish. Running DDT. Meh. He also got crickets.

Jul 15, 2021 0:47:26 GMT Baker said:

Jul 15, 2021 0:30:12 GMT UT said:

He ended Tatankas streak and was in the main event of Survivor Series in one of the better angles of the year. Other than that it was mostly squashes but you could literally say that for everyone - it’s always squashes and it’s beautiful.

I don’t love him like Baker loves him but there is … something there. He’s solid in the ring and cute a good arrogant foreign heel promo and got some heat and had a good spot on the roster for most his run.

Of fuck yeah! Thurman Plugg vignette!

UT nailed it. 

Even back in the day I thought Thurman "Sparky" Plugg was Wrestlecrap. It's also an underrated contender for Worst Ring Name. Thurman "Sparky" Plugg...ugh.

But you did solve another mystery for me. I never could remember exactly when Well Dunn & Bob Holly debuted.

Well at least I’m useful for something! It was 1993!

Wrestlecrap name for sure but I still love it.

Half to disagree with Baker even calling Stan Lane half hearted.

He is awful. It’s straight out of a video game with the occasional , monotone observation. He’s not even a heel - he’s right down the middle and McMahon has to cue him up at least six times an episode and remind him that he’s supposed to be talking. Holy.

Also it’s fun to watch a young and chipper Jim Ross knowing that even back then he was a cranky curmudgeon and is 10 fold now.

This is what wrestling should do. Forget "new" content. Just start over from Raw 93 and air this shit in their timeslots.

Jul 15, 2021 20:15:24 GMT @ness said:

This is what wrestling should do. Forget "new" content. Just start over from Raw 93 and air this shit in their timeslots.

Agreed. It’s far more entertaining.

Jul 15, 2021 20:05:06 GMT UT said:

Half to disagree with Baker even calling Stan Lane half hearted.

He is awful. It’s straight out of a video game with the occasional, monotone observation. He’s not even a heel - he’s right down the middle and McMahon has to cue him up at least six times an episode and remind him that he’s supposed to be talking. Holy.

Stan should not have been on commentary. Even in the best of Razor Roman VHS, you can see is apathy on full display.

Post KOTR - did Bam Bam have one of the low key worst runs ever?

The Doink Feud which resulted in that Survivor Series match?
Now he’s teaming with Bastion Booger an apparently about to feud.

Not to mention his squash matches are weirdly some of the most competitive and he’s always almost getting upset and generally struggles. It’s really weird.

Oh and obviously a few years away from the worst WM main event ever.

Jul 15, 2021 20:05:06 GMT UT said:

Half to disagree with Baker even calling Stan Lane half hearted.

He is awful. It’s straight out of a video game with the occasional , monotone observation. He’s not even a heel - he’s right down the middle and McMahon has to cue him up at least six times an episode and remind him that he’s supposed to be talking. Holy.

Fair enough. It's been a long time. Only thing I really remember about his WWF stint is calling the cult classic Harts vs. Steiners match alongside Gorilla.  

Reo Rodgers, who also sucked, made a longer lasting impression on me. And I just read he only lasted two weeks! That can't be right. I didn't get that character back in the day and didn't even realize he was doing a Dusty impression.

Didn't Johnny Polo also do some Superstars commentary duty?

It's no wonder The King was my guy. I was already a Lawler fan and he obviously would have been a breath of fresh air after suffering through a few months of the Lane-Rodgers-Polo revolving door of suck. 

Jul 15, 2021 20:15:24 GMT @ness said:

This is what wrestling should do. Forget "new" content. Just start over from Raw 93 and air this shit in their timeslots.

Agreed.

Jul 16, 2021 0:25:55 GMT UT said:

Post KOTR - did Bam Bam have one of the low key worst runs ever?

The Doink Feud which resulted in that Survivor Series match?
Now he’s teaming with Bastion Booger an apparently about to feud.

Not to mention his squash matches are weirdly some of the most competitive and he’s always almost getting upset and generally struggles. It’s really weird.

Oh and obviously a few years away from the worst WM main event ever.

Agreed again. 

The Doink feud was long and painful. Thank goodness for small miracles because I don't even remember the Booger feud. BBB also lost to Tatanka in a throwaway match at Royal Rumble '94. Then he spent months as just another body in the Million Dollar Corporation before feuding with, and losing to, a non-wrestler I had no desire to see in a wrestling ring. Then came a failed babyface turn which saw him wear flotuses to the ring like some kind of oversized Ralph Wiggum. 

And to think some of you wonder why I never got into Bam Bam. That's an awful two year run filled with feuds and matches that had go away heat with me. Why would I get behind a loser?

Jul 16, 2021 1:50:54 GMT Baker said:

Didn't Johnny Polo also do some Superstars commentary duty?

I have a Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels cage match from late 1993 that he did commentary on. He and Gorilla were hilarious together, talk about a generation gap! I wish Scott Levy did more commentary.

Polo just did commentary on Raw during the rotating cast post Heenan , haven’t gotten to him on Superstars yet.

Can’t believe I made it this long without mentioning how much I love Macho Mans costume every week , even on commentary. He just came back to Raw on the 100th anniversary and his MNR attire is fire.

Also Baker , I’m not sure if it’s a full fledged feud with Booger, they were tagging together when Booger kept forcing himself on Luna on the outside and caused a brawl between he and Bam Bam. That’s where I ended so I only presume there will be at least a short lived feud.

Jul 10, 2021 3:54:31 GMT CM Punk'd said:

Jul 10, 2021 3:50:19 GMT UT said:

I don’t even believe that’s a real show.

Here's proof.

How did I miss this?

Although maybe it's a good thing I did because Knights & Warriors would have been just one more obsession. I never would have missed an episode. "American Gladiators, but medieval" would have been the coolest thing in the world to 92-93 me. Heck, that intro has me hyped here in 2021  :lol:

The 123 Kid and Jannetty vs Quebecers match on the 1 year anniversary show was a ton of fun! Would definitely recommend.

Lugers loaded forearm finisher is so illogical. It’s lost me.