Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 7, 2021 7:48:01 GMT
JON MOXLEY
Promo : 9
Look : 6
In Ring : 6
21/30
Mox's number one ability has been his promo skills. Hands down. But in saying that, he's never delivered a great promo to push him into a hard 10 rating. His look is average at best.. does it suit the gimmick, probably yes. His work, I've always felt got worse post-Shield - he had a pep in his step during their initial run, and alot more snap, crackle, pop in what he did. Since The Shield I doubt I've actually been driven out of my way to see his matches. He's decent.
|
|
Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 7, 2021 13:30:08 GMT
Darby Allin is an interesting one. Would his look work if he were 220lbs? Probably not as well. He is obviously playing to his skeletal frame with the paint and imagery. But his size and build does draw criticism for a well, lack there of.
My concern for Darby is, he continues working a spotty style because he can easily throw his 170lb frame around, but neglects to learn to work a safer style and with little meat on his bones is a broken man by 35.
|
|
Legend
19,158 POSTS & 10,755 LIKES
|
Post by KING KID on Jul 9, 2021 21:25:47 GMT
JON MOXLEYPromo : 9 Look : 6 In Ring : 6 21/30 Mox's number one ability has been his promo skills. Hands down. But in saying that, he's never delivered a great promo to push him into a hard 10 rating. His look is average at best.. does it suit the gimmick, probably yes. His work, I've always felt got worse post-Shield - he had a pep in his step during their initial run, and alot more snap, crackle, pop in what he did. Since The Shield I doubt I've actually been driven out of my way to see his matches. He's decent. 21 is way too high. Dean Ambrose is probably the 2nd most overrated wrestler behind Drew McIntyre.
|
|
Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 9, 2021 21:33:54 GMT
JON MOXLEYPromo : 9 Look : 6 In Ring : 6 21/30 Mox's number one ability has been his promo skills. Hands down. But in saying that, he's never delivered a great promo to push him into a hard 10 rating. His look is average at best.. does it suit the gimmick, probably yes. His work, I've always felt got worse post-Shield - he had a pep in his step during their initial run, and alot more snap, crackle, pop in what he did. Since The Shield I doubt I've actually been driven out of my way to see his matches. He's decent. 21 is way too high. Dean Ambrose is probably the 2nd most overrated wrestler behind Drew McIntyre. Drew McIntyre I would rate quite well. Promo: 6 Look: 10 In Ring: 6 Not the greatest promo, but decent enough to carry a fued. His look is 10/10 - height, size, great look overall. And his in ring work isn't bad either. He can work. Hard 22.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 21:36:01 GMT
Even if they're only truly great in one area, not being shitty in the others still bumps you up quite a bit.
|
|
Legend
19,158 POSTS & 10,755 LIKES
|
Post by KING KID on Jul 9, 2021 21:46:11 GMT
Even if they're only truly great in one area, not being shitty in the others still bumps you up quite a bit. That's why it's called the Bret Hart system and he only uses it to brag about how great of a wrestler he was and how he made pink cool.
|
|
God
5,277 POSTS & 2,290 LIKES
|
Post by Ed on Jul 9, 2021 23:14:33 GMT
Even if they're only truly great in one area, not being shitty in the others still bumps you up quite a bit. That's why it's called the Bret Hart system and, he only uses it to brag about how great of a wrestler he was and how he made pink cool. You say that like it's a bad thing. (H)
|
|
Legend
19,158 POSTS & 10,755 LIKES
|
Post by KING KID on Jul 9, 2021 23:17:34 GMT
That's why it's called the Bret Hart system and, he only uses it to brag about how great of a wrestler he was and how he made pink cool. You say that like it's a bad thing.  It's basically the same thing as short guys who buy big trucks. He sucks at promos, but will make his own system up to brag about great he is at everything else.
|
|
God
5,277 POSTS & 2,290 LIKES
|
Post by Ed on Jul 9, 2021 23:26:23 GMT
You say that like it's a bad thing. It's basically the same thing as short guys who buy big trucks. He sucks at promos but will make his own system up to brag about great he is at everything else. I totally see your point there. It does feel like a vanity play on Bret's part. I don't think Hart sucks at promos. While not great, I believe Hitman was the 1st wrestler in WWF to cut believable promos that weren't cartoonish.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 23:57:31 GMT
Bret working the marks like a true WORKER. Use my System and you'll have no choice but to put me with the GOATs.
|
|
Junior Member
2,060 POSTS & 3,815 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Jul 10, 2021 0:02:32 GMT
You say that like it's a bad thing. It's basically the same thing as short guys who buy big trucks. He sucks at promos, but will make his own system up to brag about great he is at everything else. It actually existed so he could roast Dino Bravo as worthless.
|
|
Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 10, 2021 0:04:02 GMT
It's basically the same thing as short guys who buy big trucks. He sucks at promos but will make his own system up to brag about great he is at everything else. I totally see your point there. It does feel like a vanity play on Bret's part. I don't think Hart sucks at promos. While not great, I believe Hitman was the 1st wrestler in WWF to cut believable promos that weren't cartoonish. Forgetting Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts...
|
|
Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 10, 2021 0:04:37 GMT
It's basically the same thing as short guys who buy big trucks. He sucks at promos, but will make his own system up to brag about great he is at everything else. It actually existed so he could roast Dino Bravo as worthless. I thought it might be to roast Hunter.
|
|
Junior Member
2,060 POSTS & 3,815 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Jul 10, 2021 0:09:42 GMT
It actually existed so he could roast Dino Bravo as worthless. I thought it might be to roast Hunter. The book was published just before Bret really turned the heat up on roasting Hunter. Trying to imagine Hunter's score by Bret back then. Thinking ... Look: 8 Promo: 6 In Ring: 5 Triple H: 19/30
|
|
Legend
11,091 POSTS & 6,270 LIKES
|
Post by NATH45 on Jul 10, 2021 0:19:34 GMT
I thought it might be to roast Hunter. The book was published just before Bret really turned the heat up on roasting Hunter. Trying to imagine Hunter's score by Bret back then. Thinking ... Look: 8 Promo: 6 In Ring: 5 Triple H: 19/30 Hunter circa 2000 Promo : 8 Look : 10 In Ring : 8 26/30 Hunter 2006 onwards Probably a 7 for look, and 5 for in ring. Promo has never failed. 20/30
|
|
Strong Style Mod
USER IS OFFLINE
Years
Old
Male
11,411 POSTS & 11,537 LIKES
|
Post by Emperor on Jul 10, 2021 0:33:29 GMT
Feel like we're dishing out 10/10 looks too easily.
Says the guy who gave Roman Reigns 10/10. But I stand by that!
|
|
Junior Member
2,060 POSTS & 3,815 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Jul 10, 2021 0:34:35 GMT
The book was published just before Bret really turned the heat up on roasting Hunter. Trying to imagine Hunter's score by Bret back then. Thinking ... Look: 8 Promo: 6 In Ring: 5 Triple H: 19/30 Hunter circa 2000 Promo : 8 Look : 10 In Ring : 8 26/30 Hunter 2006 onwards Probably a 7 for look, and 5 for in ring. Promo has never failed. 20/30 Hunter circa 2000 Promo : 6 Look : 10 In Ring : 8 24/30 Pretty much on the same page, but think less of his promos which I always found long-winded, perpetually needing to tighten shit up, and lack of creativity ever going beyond the basics. Solid, elevated by a confident charisma, but nothing special. He was absolutely on fire in the ring that year, never that good before or since.
|
|
Junior Member
2,060 POSTS & 3,815 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Jul 10, 2021 0:37:07 GMT
Feel like we're dishing out 10/10 looks too easily. Says the guy who gave Roman Reigns 10/10. But I stand by that! Thought about going 9 for Triple H's 2000 look with that mentality, "Gotta make the 10's count," but dude looked like a wrestling god that year (better than Reigns now).
|
|
God
5,277 POSTS & 2,290 LIKES
|
Post by Ed on Jul 10, 2021 0:41:39 GMT
I totally see your point there. It does feel like a vanity play on Bret's part. I don't think Hart sucks at promos. While not great, I believe Hitman was the 1st wrestler in WWF to cut believable promos that weren't cartoonish. Forgetting Roddy Piper, Jake Roberts... Cartoonish may be a poor word choice. Moreover, I just had my mind on the post-Hulk Hogan era.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Jul 10, 2021 0:52:20 GMT
HHH's denim vest over leather jacket deserves an 11/10 for look.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS ONLINE
Years
Old
Male
They changed it. Now it sucks. Let's fix it.
9,019 POSTS & 11,975 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Jul 10, 2021 1:48:27 GMT
JON MOXLEYPromo : 9 Look : 6 In Ring : 6 21/30 Mox's number one ability has been his promo skills. Hands down. But in saying that, he's never delivered a great promo to push him into a hard 10 rating. His look is average at best.. does it suit the gimmick, probably yes. His work, I've always felt got worse post-Shield - he had a pep in his step during their initial run, and alot more snap, crackle, pop in what he did. Since The Shield I doubt I've actually been driven out of my way to see his matches. He's decent. 21 is way too high. Dean Ambrose is probably the 2nd most overrated wrestler behind Drew McIntyre. PW rated Ambrose very low when we did this a few years ago. Even if they're only truly great in one area, not being shitty in the others still bumps you up quite a bit. Not necessarily. PW rated Andre even lower than Ambrose despite The Giant getting high marks in look. Even if they're only truly great in one area, not being shitty in the others still bumps you up quite a bit. That's why it's called the Bret Hart system and he only uses it to brag about how great of a wrestler he was and how he made pink cool. Also not true. PW rated Bret higher than he rated himself. HHH's denim vest over leather jacket deserves an 11/10 for look. Yep.
|
|
Strong Style Mod
USER IS OFFLINE
Years
Old
Male
11,411 POSTS & 11,537 LIKES
|
Post by Emperor on Jul 19, 2021 19:00:10 GMT
BRET HART EMPEROR RANKS NJPW STARS
You may think there are no promos in NJPW, and granted there aren't many on the actual shows, but the wrestlers cut promos backstage after every show which are all on NJPW World. I watch a lot of them so have a good idea of their speaking ability. The NJPW YouTube channel also has select highlights.
Let's start with the IWGP World Heavyweight Champion.
Shingo Takagi
Look: 8
Promo: 4
In-ring: 8
Total: 20
Shingo is not the tallest guy in the room but he makes up for it in raw bulk. Muscular and stocky. Good attire, bit of a goofy hairstyle but it helps him to stand out.
When he first arrived on the scene I wasn't overly impressed by his ring work. He was more or less another version of the hoss-strong-style wrestler, although I did (and still do) find him more interesting than similar wrestlers such as Goto and EVIL. For a man of his size he can generate incredible speed very quickly, which gives his offense an explosiveness that few others possess. He's really stepped up his game in the past year or two, being able to work longer/slower matches and make them compelling. Compared to Ospreay who experienced a similar growth, he is a bit more one-dimensional, but still earned his spot as one of the best in the company and a worthy champion.
Shingo is not great on the mic. He's good enough to send the fans home happy with a show closer without being completely generic. He's good enough to talk up an upcoming match and discuss his opponent a little bit. However he's not the most imaginative guy, and his adlibbing is awful, which was exposed one time where KENTA confronted him backstage. KENTA talked circles around him, it was pretty painful to watch. If not for that segment I may have given him a 5 or 6.
Will Ospreay
Look: 6
Promo: 6
In-ring: 10
Total: 22
Ospreay's look is just above average for two reasons: his height and his attire. Besides that, pretty unremarkable.
His talking is good but not great. Sometimes talks too much and shouts unnecessarily, and not the best actor either, but he generally has something interesting to say and knows how to add a bit of spice to his rivalries.
Ospreay's wrestling is clearly his strongest point. As a Junior he stood out, arguably for the wrong reasons (i.e. being too spotty, overuse of dangerous spots), but no denying his athleticism and moves that could genuinely wow 21st century fans. However once he started the rise to heavyweight he's shown a versatility and growth I honestly didn't expect. Ospreay gradually changed his style, using fewer and fewer high flying moves and adding more strikes/power moves to his arsenal. All while delivering consistently great matches against NJPW's best. He won Wrestler of the Year in 2019, but in my opinion he's continued to get better, with 2021 being his best year yet. He's produced some of his best work in those years. His matches with Okada, ZSJ and Shingo Takagi (x2) are all MOTY contenders.
Kota Ibushi
Look: 8
Promo: 4
In-ring: 7
Total: 19
Ibushi's body gets a 10/10, Greek god physique. His boyband face/hairstyle knock him down a couple of points.
Mic skills - similar to Shingo, he's good enough to send the crowd home happy and hype up a match. His adlibbing seems OK but sometimes his promos take these weird tangents where nobody really knows what he's going on about.
Rewind a year and I would have given Ibushi a 5. Everyone raves about the guy but I never thought he was anything special, neither as a Junior nor a Heavyweight, but he showed a new life in the 2020 G1 Climax. He varied up his style a lot, with noteworthy matches against Suzuki and Taichi. Had a five star match with Jay White at Wrestle Kingdom 15. He's still not the most consistent wrestler, he's as capable of wrestling a borefest as he is a classic, which sets him back from the top tier.
Tetsuya Naito
Look: 8
Promo: 9
In-ring: 8
Total: 25
I admit Naito has an average physique. His attire ever since becoming El Ingobernable has been consistently awesome. His wide eyes add that little extra special to his image. I know the traditional wrestling fans will hate his hairstyle but I think it works really well for him. He has a great look.
Definitely one of the best promos in the company. Although I don't understand Japanese, the way he talks just sounds cool. He rarely talks too much, or too little. He's great at exciting the fans, he has catchphrases (almost unheard of for a Japanese wrestler), great improviser. But what I like most about Naito is how he sells matches and rivalries. He speaks very freely about what he thinks of management and the matchmakers, he finds amusing ways to tease his opponents. He's one of the few wrestlers I never skip when I watch the backstage interviews.
Naito has a unique way of wrestling, one second he's laconic and the next second he's exploding with a barrage of moves. Has a nice moveset that blends Japanese style with lucha libre. His greatest strength is how he incorporates his character and psychology into his matches. This was more evident when he debuted as El Ingobernable in 2015, where his personality was enigmatic, but you can see it to this today. The subtle nuances in his series with Okada. His G1 2020 match against Juice Robinson. Most recently, his tag title match with SANADA against ZSJ/Taichi. What stops Naito from getting a 9 or 10 is his consistency. His match quality depends a lot on his opponents - he can have a great match against a good/great opponent, but give him a subpar opponent and the matches stink. He also works better in mid-length matches. Even against good opponents Naito isn't the best at the 30+ minute main event epic style.
Jay White
Look: 10
Promo: 9
In-ring: 10
Total: 29
Everyone knows I'm extremely high on Jay White so this shouldn't come as a surprise. As a complete package he's the best wrestler in the world, and only Roman Reigns is close. Allow me to justify my ridiculous score.
He has fantastic attire, whether it's his standard black gear or the white gear he busts out for special occasions. Herculean physique. Long black hair - perfect for a villain. The beard is the final ingredient. Without the beard he looks like the edgelord that people talked about when he returned from excursion and the score goes down to a 6 or 7. The scraggly beard is the cherry on top, the final piece of the puzzle, the key ingredient that makes his scumbag look fit him to perfection.
As much as I wanted to, I can't give him full marks on the mic. Like Ospreay, he often talks too much and yells unnecessarily. He also has a bad habit of repeating himself. However he ticks all the boxes. Good actor. Convincing speaker. Eloquent. Able to improvise at the snap of a finger. Great content. Another drawback is that he has been pretty one-dimensional, but after his loss to Ibushi at Wrestle Kingdom, he showed great versatility and cut one of the greatest promos in recent years.
Proof that Jay White would also make an amazing babyface, and that promo makes me really excited that it will happen one day.
Jay White is a prodigy in the ring. He basically never fails to have a great match, no matter the opponent. He has a style that is all his own. It's almost anti-strong style, in that he never engages in the standard strong style tropes and deliberately wrestles against them. Brilliant defensive wrestler, has 10 reversals for everything you can throw at him. Tough as nails. Great offense. Brilliant closing stretch worker. Multiple five star matches. The guy is flawless.
Zack Sabre Jr.
Look: 2
Promo: 8
In-ring: 10
Total: 20
Everyone knows I love ZSJ, but I'm not going to deceive myself about his look. It's not a good look for a pro-wrestler. Thankfully he's more than good enough in the ring to compensate.
ZSJ is an extremely witty promo, bringing a wealth of colourful British slang to his interviews. His rivals are cheeky bastards, dickheads, pillocks, cretins, idiots. Will Ospreay is Billy-No-Brains. Tama Tonga and Tanga Loa are the Chodes of Destiny. Love it. Not only is he great at insulting his opponents, but his furious meltdowns are wonderful to behold as well. He doesn't just insult people though, he does often praise his fellow wrestlers. He may not like them as people but he is complimentary of their ability, which is only a good thing.
Between the ropes, ZSJ is an easier 10/10 than even Jay White. I'm not a fan of breaking scales, but if anyone deserves an 11/10, it's Zack. He wrestles a style that's completely his own, and belongs in the 1960s British wrestling scene, but he's mastered it so completely that everyone believes that this twig from England can defeat guys three times his girth in a wrestling match. He's one of the few guys in the world who doesn't have a single finish. His matches can end in any number of different ways, which makes his closing stretches that much more compelling. Not only that, he is infinitely adaptable. My favourite recent example of this is his G1 2020 match against EVIL. There Zack wrestled as a pure white meat babyface against the Bullet Club cheater, and was remarkably convincing at it.
Kazuchika Okada
Look: 8
Promo: 5
In-ring: 9
Total: 22
Okada has height in his favour. Although not the greatest physique, the man simply exudes charisma and confidence like few others. His classic Rainmaker rope from his prime year is perhaps the best piece of clothing in the company. He's since changed to this awful white robe. I was almost tempted to dock a point for that but didn't.
As I've seen from sit down interviews, Okada has a lot of very interesting things to say about himself, NJPW, and his fellow wrestlers. However he almost never brings this attitude to his promos. He does enough to send the fans home happy after a big win. He does the bare minimum in his backstage interviews. He rarely goes that extra mile. He doesn't typically add fire to his feuds through his words, which is a shame because I think he's more than capable.
It's hard to go below 9 for Okada. I don't think he's as great as everyone says he is, but he's close. He's been incredibly consistent, and single-handedly set the template for the modern NJPW epic. One of the best closing stretch workers ever. One of the best at epic multi-match rivalries. Can go long without the matches getting stale. And he's done all this with a surprisingly minimalist low-risk style. Just look at Okada's moveset. Read the signature moves on Wikipedia. Pretty boring, right? Yet he is able to work magic with them. The last couple of years, being out of the spotlight and banged up have not done his reputation any favours, but he's still able to pull out a classic, as he has done with Ospreay and Shingo this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 23:32:03 GMT
If it helps push the 9 to a 10, Jay White has been a major reason I've been interested in getting NJPW World.
|
|
God
6,139 POSTS & 4,399 LIKES
|
Post by mikec on Jul 21, 2021 17:46:07 GMT
I’m super curious what people’s take on Seth Rollins is by this score. It feels like he should do super well while also not being particularly over right now.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS ONLINE
Years
Old
Male
8,985 POSTS & 8,740 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Jul 21, 2021 18:10:18 GMT
I’m super curious what people’s take on Seth Rollins is by this score. It feels like he should do super well while also not being particularly over right now. 19.9 total according to the old results.
Not a lot of Seth fans around these parts. I blame the nose and the nasally promos - it brought back HHH-related PTSD episodes.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Jul 21, 2021 18:15:26 GMT
Can we calibrate the look category for cruiserweights? Seth has a pretty great look IMO for a cruiserweight.
Doesn't help his promo score.
And honestly I can't tell about in-ring. I hate it conceptually, but I'll be damned if he hasn't had a handful of matches that I've been begrudgingly entertained by.
|
|
God
6,139 POSTS & 4,399 LIKES
|
Post by mikec on Jul 21, 2021 19:55:21 GMT
I’m super curious what people’s take on Seth Rollins is by this score. It feels like he should do super well while also not being particularly over right now. 19.9 total according to the old results.
Not a lot of Seth fans around these parts. I blame the nose and the nasally promos - it brought back HHH-related PTSD episodes.
Yeah it looked like there’d been some change from previous results, so that was what I was wondering if it had grown.
|
|
Strong Style Mod
USER IS OFFLINE
Years
Old
Male
11,411 POSTS & 11,537 LIKES
|
Post by Emperor on Jul 21, 2021 20:05:51 GMT
This game is fun, let's do Seth Rollins.
Seth Rollins
Look: 9
Promo: 7
In-ring: 6
Total: 22
Rollins has a great look, but not a perfect look. Similar to Reigns but without as much muscle mass, and he doesn't have that badass warrior face like Reigns has.
Perhaps I'm being generous for his promos and mic skills. I'm indifferent to his type of promos and I even dislike his wrestling, but I can acknowledge that he is definitely above average in both categories, just stylistically he embodies many things I dislike, especially in the ring.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Jul 21, 2021 20:10:30 GMT
I want to see Strobe's rating for Seth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 20:53:27 GMT
Seth is a guy that was so cringey and borderline uber hated that I wasn't even sure if he was gonna make it. Obviously with a rocket strapped that was never not gonna happen, but it was still in doubt.
He did ruin Becky though...
|
|
