Seth Rollins

Look: 7
Promo: 5
In Ring: 7
Total: 19

Seth has a solid look but nothing out of this world, he overdoes it more often than not on promos with forced charisma, and in ring he's athletic as hell but Strobe's oft mentioned flaws are very valid ones.
 

Jul 21, 2021 20:10:30 GMT 🤯 said:

I want to see Strobe 's rating for Seth.

Look: The guy is in great shape. Has a decent enough skeezy heel look to him I guess. The bleached bit in the hair was shite. His attire has never been great. Not all that great a pro wrestling look overall. Maybe give him a 5. In a world where Andre the Giant (that size, those teeth, those hands, that hair as a face, that gigantism) is a 10, that feels about right.

Promo: Everyone's basically a shit promo these days because of the style they want them delivered in and the length they have to go, but can I really give this guy with minimal charisma, a shit voice and mediocre delivery more than a 3 in a world with Jake Roberts and Arn Anderson and Steve Austin and so on and so on? I can't.

In-ring: The guy has great athletic timing. He can perform the moves. Whoop dee fucking do. So can every other wanker these days. He can keep his powerbombs into guardrails to send us to a TV commercial break. The fucking prick doesn't even brag and boast when hitting high spots as a heel. Throwing away top rope superplexes into falcon arrows away as nearfalls all the time. What a cunt. In a world where Mitsuharu Misawa is a 10, a guy like Bret Hart would be a 9, Mick Foley could be like a 7, 7.5, then can I give Seth Rollins more than a 4 really? Maybe I could be kind and go 5, but I'm not kind.

12/30.

The boy was lucky to break double digits.

Aug 2, 2021 23:13:51 GMT Strobe said:

Jul 21, 2021 20:10:30 GMT 🤯 said:

I want to see Strobe 's rating for Seth.

Look: The guy is in great shape. Has a decent enough skeezy heel look to him I guess. The bleached bit in the hair was shite. His attire has never been great. Not all that great a pro wrestling look overall. Maybe give him a 5. In a world where Andre the Giant (that size, those teeth, those hands, that hair as a face, that gigantism) is a 10, that feels about right.

Promo: Everyone's basically a shit promo these days because of the style they want them delivered in and the length they have to go, but can I really give this guy with minimal charisma, a shit voice and mediocre delivery more than a 3 in a world with Jake Roberts and Arn Anderson and Steve Austin and so on and so on? I can't.

In-ring: The guy has great athletic timing. He can perform the moves. Whoop dee fucking do. So can every other wanker these days. He can keep his powerbombs into guardrails to send us to a TV commercial break. The fucking prick doesn't even brag and boast when hitting high spots as a heel. Throwing away top rope superplexes into falcon arrows away as nearfalls all the time. What a cunt. In a world where Mitsuharu Misawa is a 10, a guy like Bret Hart would be a 9, Mick Foley could be like a 7, 7.5, then can I give Seth Rollins more than a 4 really? Maybe I could be kind and go 5, but I'm not kind.

12/30.

The boy was lucky to break double digits.

YES! I want more Strobe ratings.

Aug 2, 2021 23:28:27 GMT Kilgore said:

Aug 2, 2021 23:13:51 GMT Strobe said:

Look: The guy is in great shape. Has a decent enough skeezy heel look to him I guess. The bleached bit in the hair was shite. His attire has never been great. Not all that great a pro wrestling look overall. Maybe give him a 5. In a world where Andre the Giant (that size, those teeth, those hands, that hair as a face, that gigantism) is a 10, that feels about right.

Promo: Everyone's basically a shit promo these days because of the style they want them delivered in and the length they have to go, but can I really give this guy with minimal charisma, a shit voice and mediocre delivery more than a 3 in a world with Jake Roberts and Arn Anderson and Steve Austin and so on and so on? I can't.

In-ring: The guy has great athletic timing. He can perform the moves. Whoop dee fucking do. So can every other wanker these days. He can keep his powerbombs into guardrails to send us to a TV commercial break. The fucking prick doesn't even brag and boast when hitting high spots as a heel. Throwing away top rope superplexes into falcon arrows away as nearfalls all the time. What a cunt. In a world where Mitsuharu Misawa is a 10, a guy like Bret Hart would be a 9, Mick Foley could be like a 7, 7.5, then can I give Seth Rollins more than a 4 really? Maybe I could be kind and go 5, but I'm not kind.

12/30.

The boy was lucky to break double digits.

YES! I want more Strobe ratings.

Seconded.

Although I am actually a little mad Strobe was so generous to Seth.

But perhaps he's just being objective, as he's known to be.

Strobe's scoring makes me think I'm being way too generous. On the other hand, I didn't take his "Andre is a 10" approach. The way I thought about it is comparing wrestlers only to wrestlers in the same era. So Roman Reigns is a 10 because almost nobody looks better than Reigns does in 2021. In the grand scheme of things he's maybe an 8 or 9. So arguably I'm overrating wrestlers. I gave Jay White a 9 in promo I think, but he's clearly not that if we put him against all wrestlers of all time. However I will still argue that he's one of the best promos in this current generation of wrestlers.

Aug 3, 2021 1:21:03 GMT 🤯 said:

Although I am actually a little mad Strobe was so generous to Seth.

But perhaps he's just being objective, as he's known to be.

Sure, I could've given him three 1s for a laugh, but it would've been bullshit. When Raja Lion exists, I think a 4 for in-ring is fair. When there are people who can barely talk without tripping over themselves and have negative charisma, 3 for promos is fair. Maybe I was too kind for look. Nothing exciting or interesting about it. As a frame of reference, I'd probably only give Cena a 7 because despite the ridiculous shape he is in, the jorts, all his gear as a whole and his goofy fucking face really hurt it. So maybe Seth should 4 there.

Aug 3, 2021 8:42:30 GMT Emperor said:

Strobe's scoring makes me think I'm being way too generous. On the other hand, I didn't take his "Andre is a 10" approach. The way I thought about it is comparing wrestlers only to wrestlers in the same era. So Roman Reigns is a 10 because almost nobody looks better than Reigns does in 2021. In the grand scheme of things he's maybe an 8 or 9. So arguably I'm overrating wrestlers. I gave Jay White a 9 in promo I think, but he's clearly not that if we put him against all wrestlers of all time. However I will still argue that he's one of the best promos in this current generation of wrestlers.

That's a valid way of looking at it. The GOAT debate is everywhere in all sports at the moment it seems. The only thing anyone ever wants to talk about unfortunately. They can be fun discussions at times but I don't think you can really claim anyone truly as the all-time greatest. Greatest of their era, sure. But beyond that there are too many factors and differences and evolutions and devolutions. We can't say if Pele born in the late 80s, with the advances in sports science, training methods, better pitches, not being booted to pieces every match, would've been as good as Messi has been. Based on his attributes, we can be fairly confident he'd be really fucking good but a direct comparison isn't really possible.

Ric Flair
Looks - 5
Promo - 10
In-ring - 5
Total - 20

Barely crackin' 20 because fuck you, that's why. Also what Bruno Sammartino said: "You've seen one Flair match, you've seen them all!"

I can't think of anyone who's more overrated than Flair (on an in-ring level at least, we all know Hogan is). But even I admit he's one of (if not the) greatest promos of all-time. Without that talent he would have been a lifelong midcarder or worse. His best matches (v. Steamboat) are more because Ricky was the shit, not the shits like Helicopter Dick Boy over here *sarcastic drum crash*

Being a scumbag alcoholic doesn't help my already less than stellar view of him but I'm not ranking him as a person, otherwise I'd have been petty and gave him all 0's.

Steve Blackman
Looks - 10
Promo - 4
In-Ring - 7
Total: 21

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Blackman is def. better than Flair.

Thinking about Rad's Ric Flair's looks rating is interesting because in promos he's a 10/10, which I think is the first thing people think of when you'd say what was Ric Flair's look: Suit, shades, spectacular bleach blonde locks.

But in the ring, it's a pretty sorry look. No matter how good of shape he got in, he always had the loose, leathery, skin. He just could never look great in is wrestling gear.

So I think of Flair as a great look, just because I tend to think of him in a suit cutting the greatest promos ever. But do people that think like this (me) need to be harder on his in-ring look?

Oct 17, 2021 20:22:46 GMT rad said:

Ric Flair
Looks - 5
Promo - 10
In-ring - 5
Total - 20

Barely crackin' 20 because fuck you, that's why. Also what Bruno Sammartino said: "You've seen one Flair match, you've seen them all!"

I can't think of anyone who's more overrated than Flair (on an in-ring level at least, we all know Hogan is). But even I admit he's one of (if not the) greatest promos of all-time. Without that talent he would have been a lifelong midcarder or worse. His best matches (v. Steamboat) are more because Ricky was the shit, not the shits like Helicopter Dick Boy over here *sarcastic drum crash*

Being a scumbag alcoholic doesn't help my already less than stellar view of him but I'm not ranking him as a person, otherwise I'd have been petty and gave him all 0's.

Steve Blackman
Looks - 10
Promo - 4
In-Ring - 7
Total: 21

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I do not like this post.

To rebut one of the worst posts PW history...

Ric Flair

Look: 7
Promo: 10
In Ring: 10
Total: 27

-It isn't fair to Flair to penalize him too much for his flabby old man post-peak look since his opponent never even had a peak, let alone a post-peak. *Ba dum tss* Obviously one of the all time great promos. Even hater rad recognizes his greatness in that department. RiC fLaIr WrEsTlEd ThE sAmE mAtCh EvErY tImE is a lie that needs to die. 

Steve Backman

Look: 7
Promo: 1?
In Ring: 3

-Good physique, but everything else about him screamed "middle manager" which only works in wrestling if you're doing an IRS-style gimmick.

-Did Blackman even speak? Not even trying to be a smartass. Genuinely curious. Because I'm pretty sure he was working a low key "mute" gimmick.

-I'm going to be generous and assume Blackman exhibited a basic degree of competency in the ring just because I don't recall any blatantly bad botches. But I never saw a single Steve Blackman match that I wanted to watch a second time. Closest he gets is that match with Shane where Blackman was in the broom kendo stick role and roughly in the area when Shane decided to fall 50 feet. But then I think "why would I want to watch boring ass Steve Blackman for 10 minutes when I can just find a gif of Shane's fall?" Also having a tough time remembering his offense. I think he did superkicks? And maybe a strike flurry? His name might as well be Steve Basham given how forgettable his matches were.

Final Score: Ric Flair 27- Steve Blackman 11

Oct 17, 2021 21:56:37 GMT Baker said:

-It isn't fair to Flair to penalize him too much for his flabby old man post-peak look since his opponent never even had a peak, let alone a post-peak.

Does Flair have a peak look, though? Pre-plane crash, he's just a fat muscle guy. Post-plane crash, he seemingly immediately enters the middle age, gravity is a bitch, phase of his physique. 

^I thought he had a good look in the 80s. Not great, but good. Iconic hair. "Ric Flair hair" was definitely a thing....at least here in Baltimore County. It also served to enhance his many crimson masks. His robes, also iconic. Decent physique in his heyday. Admittedly bland in ring attire, though he at least had the decency to change up the colors, and color coordinate his boots, kneepads, and (usually) robes. Also looked good rocking the suit to the point where he is synonymous with the "suit wearing world champ" trope.

Ric Flair had this uncanny ability of looking 15 years older than he was.

Oct 17, 2021 21:56:37 GMT Baker said:

RiC fLaIr WrEsTlEd ThE sAmE mAtCh EvErY tImE is a lie that needs to die. 

People need to realize that just started because of a beef between two bitter old men (or three if you count Bret). I've never taken those comments seriously, Flair, Bruno and Bret are so off base about each other, they're all wrong.

Oct 17, 2021 21:56:37 GMT Baker said:

Oct 17, 2021 20:22:46 GMT rad said:

Ric Flair
Looks - 5
Promo - 10
In-ring - 5
Total - 20

Barely crackin' 20 because fuck you, that's why. Also what Bruno Sammartino said: "You've seen one Flair match, you've seen them all!"

I can't think of anyone who's more overrated than Flair (on an in-ring level at least, we all know Hogan is). But even I admit he's one of (if not the) greatest promos of all-time. Without that talent he would have been a lifelong midcarder or worse. His best matches (v. Steamboat) are more because Ricky was the shit, not the shits like Helicopter Dick Boy over here *sarcastic drum crash*

Being a scumbag alcoholic doesn't help my already less than stellar view of him but I'm not ranking him as a person, otherwise I'd have been petty and gave him all 0's.

Steve Blackman
Looks - 10
Promo - 4
In-Ring - 7
Total: 21

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I do not like this post.

To rebut one of the worst posts PW history...

Ric Flair

Look: 7
Promo: 10
In Ring: 10
Total: 27

-It isn't fair to Flair to penalize him too much for his flabby old man post-peak look since his opponent never even had a peak, let alone a post-peak. *Ba dum tss* Obviously one of the all time great promos. Even hater rad recognizes his greatness in that department. RiC fLaIr WrEsTlEd ThE sAmE mAtCh EvErY tImE is a lie that needs to die. 

Steve Backman

Look: 7
Promo: 1?
In Ring: 3

-Good physique, but everything else about him screamed "middle manager" which only works in wrestling if you're doing an IRS-style gimmick.

-Did Blackman even speak? Not even trying to be a smartass. Genuinely curious. Because I'm pretty sure he was working a low key "mute" gimmick.

-I'm going to be generous and assume Blackman exhibited a basic degree of competency in the ring just because I don't recall any blatantly bad botches. But I never saw a single Steve Blackman match that I wanted to watch a second time. Closest he gets is that match with Shane where Blackman was in the broom kendo stick role and roughly in the area when Shane decided to fall 50 feet. But then I think "why would I want to watch boring ass Steve Blackman for 10 minutes when I can just find a gif of Shane's fall?" Also having a tough time remembering his offense. I think he did superkicks? And maybe a strike flurry? His name might as well be Steve Basham given how forgettable his matches were.

Final Score: Ric Flair 27- Steve Blackman 11

Damn, that post was worth it simply just for this reply. :lol:

Obviously just having some fun. I'd rank Flair about 7 actually for in-ring. I still think he's overrated but not that much. 6 for looks, so 23 in total would be my honest answer.

I want to do Hangman Adam Page but I'm afraid of getting raked over the coals for how high I'd score him.

He's at least an 8 in the looks department, possibly higher. He's got it all. Good build, handsome, he's not under 6 ft, and his "anxious millennial cowboy" style is timeless. Every time he wears a shirt and jeans to the ring I'm like "where can I buy that?"

Promo he's a 9 or a 10. He's been killing it since joining AEW. He didn't get to talk much in ROH and NJPW is against promos, so he flew under the radar for a long time. He's as good as anyone when he gets a chance to work the mic.

In-ring is where he loses points, but I'd still have him north of 5. Probably a 6. He's like Randy Orton, in that he doesn't do anything overly flashy or memorably, but you know you're going to get a solid match out of him no matter what. He's reliable, safe, and rarely botches.

Let's do the Hangman.

Look: 6
He's handsome, has nice hair. However as a whole he looks fairly unremarkable. Not especially big or muscular or anything. Kinda plain. His look works for his gimmick, but it's nothing spectacular.

Promo: 6
He's a good promo, but not great. Nowhere near a 9 or 10. Just in AEW alone there are a ton of guys and gals better than him. Maybe even 6 is a bit generous.

Ring: 8
Agreed that he is ultra-reliable, and you're never going to see a bad match out of the guy. He's not flashy but he has really good fundamentals and he is capable of adapting to any style of opponent. He sells well and has incredible fire. Has had great matches against a variety of opponents: PAC, Wardlow, Kenny off the top of my head. None of these are the best matches AEW has put out, but they are only one level below that. He's very close to being one of the best ring workers in pro-wrestling, he just needs to take one extra step.

I'm high on Hangman Page too, but not as high as you RT. Also interesting that I rate him highly in the ring but not on the other aspects, while you are the reverse.

Doesn't A the Hangmqn have Matthew McConaughey T-Rex arms though?

Bobplug Holly

Look: 4
His look is basically a less jacked Chris Candido: A very good build, but every other aspect is the default starting point for a CAW. Whatever you rate Candido, gotta give Bob 1 point less. Feeling generous with Candido, giving him an exactly in the middle rating of 5, which makes Bob a 4. Could go less, though, with Bob having a ring gear disadvantage, too. Serious question? Has anyone ever looked good in boxer/brief style trunks? Very midcard for life look (Billy Gunn/Ziggler). Always better off going pants (AJ Styles eventually learned) or conventional trunks, can't be stuck in the middle. 

Promo: 4
Okay talker, better than you remember. Stumbles on his words pretty often, though. Like his look, the promos overall are generic. They're less than his ability to talk. Not a lot to remember (except the time he said to Gangrel: "What about you, Dracula? Get your fatass on the scale.") Just slightly below average for another 4.

In-Ring: 5
Once again thinking of 5's as a baseline, this is Bobplug. Baseline. He's solid. Never going to give you a great match, literally has never done such a thing in like 25 years of being on WWF/E television, but he's never going to give you a total stinker either. Can be elevated to the 6 range with the right dance partner, after a decade on television, and a freak occurrence that opens up a huge gash on his back causing drama he can't normally create with his own psychology. But other than that, baseline 5 for life. 

Total: 13/30

Oct 17, 2021 21:56:37 GMT Baker said:

-Did Blackman even speak? Not even trying to be a smartass. Genuinely curious. Because I'm pretty sure he was working a low key "mute" gimmick.

Oh, what wonders I have to show you.



So terrified to look at the camera that it ends up looking like he thinks Terry Taylor is Ken Shamrock. Starts panicking towards the end so just shouts his final line as loud as possible. Pretty sure you can even hear someone say "awful" at the very end of the clip.

Aug 29, 2022 18:18:23 GMT Strobe said:

Oct 17, 2021 21:56:37 GMT Baker said:

-Did Blackman even speak? Not even trying to be a smartass. Genuinely curious. Because I'm pretty sure he was working a low key "mute" gimmick.

Oh, what wonders I have to show you.



So terrified to look at the camera that it ends up looking like he thinks Terry Taylor is Ken Shamrock. Starts panicking towards the end so just shouts his final line as loud as possible. Pretty sure you can even hear someone say "awful" at the very end of the clip.

Yikes.

"ANOTHER!!!"

I would take this time to offer a counter-argument to Kilgore, but I know there aren't enough realities in the multiverse to find one where I'm "right" but I will say this.

BOBCORE is one of the BOYS so you simply cannot rate him on the same scale as other greats. However (comma) when you grade him on a Boys Scale (tm) he's actually one of the all time greats. You can't do it on a 30 point scale, but if you balance it to the curve (which is 15) he's actually pretty great. 13/15, you can't get much better than that. Boys aren't meant to be anything beyond solid.

Kilgore do Disco Inferno next.

Bob Holly

Look: 5.5- Awful looks as Sparky Plugg and Bodacious Bob. Improved his look along with literally everything else once he became Hardcore. The bleach blonde buzzcut suited him much better than those hideous mullets. Unlike Kilgore I was a fan of his trights. The bright colors combined with black worked for me. @ness recently sold me on his white boots as well. Great physique and he was like 6 inches taller than Candido so that automatically gives him a boost over the Skipper. Did have a low key Bucky Beaver thing going on though, and I have to penalize him for those awful early looks.

Mic Skills: 5.5- Basic 'tough guy who wants to whoop some ass' promos most of the time, but the Cole, Gangrel, Hardy, and all those Super Heavyweight promos give him an additional 0.5.

Ring Work: 5.5- Mentioned "mostly agreeing" with a post on another forum calling the most average wrestler ever. Yes, he is average as can be in every way but one-having the GOAT dropkick. Being the best at something is worth an extra 0.5.

Score: 16.5/30 for "Slightly Above Average" Bob Holly
=================
Strobe lol at that Blackman promo. Awful. The "ANOTHER" at the end legit cracked me up though. Wasn't expecting that even with the warnings you and 🤯 gave.

Aug 29, 2022 19:20:10 GMT @ness said:

I would take this time to offer a counter-argument to Kilgore, but I know there aren't enough realities in the multiverse to find one where I'm "right" but I will say this.

BOBCORE is one of the BOYS so you simply cannot rate him on the same scale as other greats. However (comma) when you grade him on a Boys Scale (tm) he's actually one of the all time greats. You can't do it on a 30 point scale, but if you balance it to the curve (which is 15) he's actually pretty great. 13/15, you can't get much better than that. Boys aren't meant to be anything beyond solid.

This is some legit epic Scott Steiner math.

Aug 30, 2022 0:46:38 GMT Baker said:

Kilgore do Disco Inferno next.

Disco Inferno 

Look: 6
Thought about a 7, but that's just too high. Disco has a very good physique, great hair, and his gear instantly tells you what he is. In a world of mostly generic guys, you don't have to know his name and you're saying, "That's a Disco guy. I hope his name is Disco Inferno." The bell bottom tights are genuinely great. It's not like mid-90s WWF, everyone is wearing their day job uniform, Disco Inferno is out for a night on the town, and he's looking fresh as hell. 

Promo: 4
Another case of pretty good talker, but a bad promo. Honestly can not recall a single thing Disco ever said. I can hear his voice in my mind. Yet it's just sounds. No words. He was a good enough talker to do some commentating, too. And still, I have nothing. So, a possibly generous 4. 

In-Ring: 4
Just below baseline. Disco was generally solid, but had his share of stinkers, so have to bring down a notch below.

Total: 14/30

Disco over BOBCORE (Bobplug is intentionally too close to "butt plug") by a point feels like poking the bear.

I'm gonna create the Boys Scale. So any Boys not rated properly will be dealt with. It goes beyond the basics you rate greats at.

So who is really basic when you look at the big picture?

Kilgore and I aren't too far apart on Disco except I'd go a few points higher for a 16 or 17. We agree on look (though I could go a point higher) and 'gore nailed it on promos. I'd go a point or two higher on in ring. He had a solid moveset, rarely failed to inject some character into his matches, and his stuff looked good aside from when it was intentionally bad to fit his character like not knowing how to execute the figure four. Best Disco match I've seen is his battle with Malenko at BATB 96 with the worst being the Kurosawa Nitro match building to the Malenko match. That one still gives me nightmares. If I wanted to be harsh I could deduct some points for his awful "Gifted" Glenn Gilberti (how is he gifted?) run in TNA where they tried (and failed) to make him a serious main event heel.

I request Kilgore's Bret Hart rating for Drew McIntyre.

You ask for Kilgore, instead you get discount Kilgore.

Drew McIntyre

Look: 10

Looking back, I gave Roman Reigns and Jay White top marks, so Drew McIntyre has to get it as well. I'd argue he even looks slightly better than those other two. Incredible physique, great hair, stern, badass face. Looks like Braveheart which is exactly how he wants to look. The sword is magnificent and I take full credit through my half-baked, unfinished Fan Fiction, for McIntyre permanently carrying it around with him.

Promo: 5

Perfectly adequate, I'm not marking him down for his accent, I think he does a great job in speaking clearly and conveying his words in spite of his Scottishness. But the content of his promos has never been great, as a rule he's never really sold me on a match or engaged me aside from a couple of heel promos from those 2007 Smackdown days. I'm basing this mainly on his first WWE run in the late 2000s, I've seen very little of what he's done recently.

In Ring: 4

He wasn't particularly special in his first WWE run. Everyone talked about how he improved dramatically in the Indies and made a huge return to NXT with all this reputation behind him, but to me he hadn't changed a bit. I saw more confidence and authenticity in the way he conducted himself, but he was still a bore to watch in the ring, and that hasn't really changed. The best thing he's ever done in the ring is eliminate Brock Lesnar in the 2020 (or was it 2021?) Rumble and look all godlike and triumphant. The followup match with Brock Lesnar was lousy, his match with Roman Reigns kinda sucked, and for that reason I have no interest in watching their fight that's happening right about now.

His finisher sucks. He's a massive, powerful dude, what's he doing throwing a one-legged kick? I don't see much power in his offense either. It's like he's been working the wrong style for his entire career.

Overall: 19