Jul 27, 2021 0:17:59 GMT Shootist said:

Jul 26, 2021 21:52:22 GMT UT said:

Wait - so they were babyfaces? In the EIGHTIES? In the EIGHTIES in WRESTLING?! Color me shocked because from what I seen I would have bet dollars to donuts that they were heels. Memphis was a weird ass territory though - not in a bad way but just with some of the stuff they pulled off and I guess conditioned their fans well.

Those videos are epic though. Not even ironically - I can totally see a little bit why they might have gotten so over. They are pretty much movie montages and movie montages were a staple in that decade.

Facial and chest hair made the ladies quiver back in the 80's, see Tom Selleck and dudes liked ZZ Top so it was a perfect combo.

Yeah but being homo erotic in the 80s in the South doesn’t seem like it would jive with some of that area, clearly I’m wrong but it took me by surprise.

^Along those same lines, and for an even more extreme example, there was a wrestler named Adrian Street, who basically did a Goldust gimmick a decade before Goldust was even a thing, being the #1 babyface in 1987ish Alabama.

I know about Street only because of his doc on WWECock. So I guess that’s on me for not correlating it.

Jul 26, 2021 19:05:22 GMT Shootist said:

21. The Fabulous Ones (Stan Lane and Steve Keirn)- 121.75 points

To go a step further Jackie Fargo who created them I think wanted to relive his glory days as he and his brother Don were the real pioneers of the heartthrob babyface team as the Fabulous Fargo Brothers (#44 on my list) back in the 1960's.  

Heh, Bake and I had them in the same spot, great minds....

Also Bake do you remember Bad Attitude, the hybrid Fabs/Midnight team from 1994 WCW Bobby Eaton and a clean shaven Steve Keirn? They did mostly jobs to the likes of Stars and Stripes, Sting/Steamboat, Dustin and Arn? etc.

Good call on the Fabulous Fargos. Confession time. I had no idea they were a heartthrob babyface tag team. I mean, duh. It makes all the sense in the world given the Fabs were "The FABULOUS" Jackie Fargo's proteges. But I only know of old man Jackie Fargo and he was the furthest thing from a "heartthrob" imaginable.

Even before we both nailed the Fabs (hehe) I noticed we had the Briscoes & Nasties in similar spots. Great minds, indeed...

Yeah. I remember Bad Attitude. Confession Time #2. I didn't give a hoot about them. Thought they were old and boring. Steve Keirn meant diddly squat to 1994 me. Had no idea he was Skinner and had never even heard of the Fabulous Ones. Even more regrettably I had lost interest in Beautiful Bobby He hadn't done anything of note in a year and a half. I thought he was passed it. It wasn't until the Blue Bloods that I came back around on him. Then I started renting NWA tapes which solidified his position as an all time Baker Guy. 

The gimmick was Beautiful Bobby had a fancy jacket that would only fit his new tag partner. So it was like a wrestling version of Cinderella. I'm sure 1994 me wanted/expected it to be Sweet Stan and was disappointed when it turned out to be some no name jabroni I had never even heard of. Fwiw I obviously would have been all in on a 1994 Midnight Express reunion.

Jul 26, 2021 21:52:22 GMT UT said:

Wait - so they were babyfaces? In the EIGHTIES? In the EIGHTIES in WRESTLING?! Color me shocked because from what I seen I would have bet dollars to donuts that they were heels. Memphis was a weird ass territory though

:lol:  I love this reaction. UT over here just ready to accept the Fabs were a big deal....somewhere...obviously as heels....only to be totally swerved when it turns out they were massive babyfaces.

You're not kidding about Memphis though. That was the original wrestling bizarro world. Stuff played in Memphis that wouldn't have worked anywhere else. That's a large part of its charm. Bill Dundee, a 5'7 200 pound Aussie brawler who looked like mini Elvis was the #2 guy in the company for the better part of a decade when he wouldn't even have sniffed the midcard in most territories. 

And then you have the King himself. Growing up there were a handful of wrestlers I could NEVER see being good guys- Regal, Jarrett, IRS, Jacques Rougeau, Helmsley, and of course Jerry Lawler. Mind blown! When I discovered Lawler was not just a good guy in Memphis, but THE good guy....their version of Hulk Hogan. 

This was also around the time when good guys in WWF would be bad guys in Memphis' USWA and vice versa. My friends, the 3 Brothers, somehow acquired a Memphis tape around this time where Lawler was a good guy against Hogan & Savage as bad guys. And it somehow worked! So, yeah, Memphis was definitely the original wrestling bizarro world. 

Jul 27, 2021 0:17:59 GMT Shootist said:

Jul 26, 2021 21:52:22 GMT UT said:

Facial and chest hair made the ladies quiver back in the 80's, see Tom Selleck and dudes liked ZZ Top so it was a perfect combo.

I'll just add that if the stories are to be believed, and I do believe them, then 80s Stan Lane gave Wilt Chamberlain a run for his money when it came to hooking up with the ladies.

*Be back in a bit with a few more interesting Fabulous Ones stories. 

and in case you missed it, Memphis got Mr. McMahon before the WWF did.



and Bret was supporting him!

^It's always cool to see the embryonic version of Mr. McMahon, but my favorite part of those videos were the match taglines.

A few more Fabulous Ones stories I (re)discovered and then I'll give it a rest...

The Fabs were more directly responsible for the Rock & Roll Express than I thought. Turns out the R&R were created for the sole purpose of being a "B Show" version of the Fabs. Despite usually running with a skeleton crew, Memphis did the WWF thing of having A Shows and B Shows on the house show circuit. The A Shows were in big towns featuring Lawler & The Fabs. The B Shows featured the Rock & Roll Express basically as the Fabs lite in smaller towns. Since the Rock & Roll Express were never going to equal the Fabs popularity in Memphis they were literally traded to Mid South. Meaning 1995 me was right all along about wrestling trades being a thing!

Anyway, it was in Mid South where the Rock & Rolls exploded during a feud with fellow former Memphis "B Show" acts Dennis Condrey & Bobby Eaton w/ Jim Cornette as the Midnight Express. Yep, Corny was the Memphis B Show manager while Jimmy Hart did the A Shows. The Rock & Roll Express would ultimately surpass the Fabs, but they were never quite as over in Memphis as the Fabs were during their peak. 
============
Other promotions didn't just steal Memphis' good ideas involving the Fabs. They also stole some of the bad ones...

Jerry Jarrett was PISSED when the Fabs bolted for AWA. So irate was Jarrett that he set out to prove it wasn't the talent which made the Fabs a success, but the gimmick. First he had Jackie Fargo renounce his old team on television for going soft. After a few weeks of hype Fargo would introduce The New Fabulous Ones.
 
The New Fabs would end being Eddie Gilbert & Tommy Rich. This seems like good casting on paper. Rich was a local boy made good. He had branched out from Tennessee to become one of the biggest stars in all of wrestling during the early 80s. He won the prestigious NWA Championship in 1981 and was only months removed from a legendary feud with Buzz Sawyer in Georgia which made him even more of a national star since GCW aired nationwide on a new fangled invention called "cable television." Gilbert is a HoW favorite who would go on to become a legend in his own right. Some even say he's "the reason of you're a wrestling fan." But at the time he was just a young local guy getting his biggest break to date. Seems like a good idea on paper. But...

It flopped. The fans just never took to the New Fabulous Ones the way they had to Stan & Steve. The only good to come out of it was a memorable Gilbert heel turn on Rich which basically set Gilbert down the path that would make him famous- that of an untrustworthy character who was always a heel or *this close* to becoming one.

How does this relate to those "other promotions" I mentioned in the beginning? Well, 12 years later Vince McMahon would be PISSED when Scott Hall & Kevin Nash bolted for WCW. An irate McMahon set out to prove it was the gimmick rather than the talent which had made the Razor Ramon & Diesel characters so successful. So he brought in New Diesel & New Razor. That too flopped. Though New Diesel would go on to have a strong career just as Eddie Gilbert did over a decade earlier. All things come full circle....
===========
Was looking for my favorite Fabs moment(s). It begins with a (possibly bloody?) Steve cutting a great fired up babyface promo on tv. I forget the exact details, but it had something to do with those dastardly New Zealanders, The Sheepherders, being evil anti-Americans. Then it segues into their big match at the weekly Mid South Coliseum show where the Fabs are just crazy over getting Hogan or Lawler level pops. Alas, I was unable to find it Fwiw this was the (surprisingly effective!) "B Team" version of the Sheepherders featuring Jonathan Boyd & Rip Morgan rather than Luke & Butch.

Which brings me to another point. As much as I love Sweet Stan, and I had him around #40 on my list when we did our Favorite Wrestler Countdown last year, I'm starting to think he was an Almighty Jannetty. Eaton > Lane is obvious. While I like Lane more than Prichard overall, I think Dr. Tom was the better member of the team when they were together as the Heavenly Bodies. And the more I watch of the Fabs, the more I lean towards Steve > Stan. The future Skinner was surprisingly effective at cutting fired up babyface promos. He was also a much better brawler than Stan. And considering most of the Fabs matches were brawls... 

Wait... Memphis didn't just run in Memphis!?!?

I don't think many territories , at least successful ones ran just one town?

Anyways I don't know that you could get more opposite perceptions of wrestling and wrestlers than having The Fabulous Ones and Bruiser and Crusher back to back.

Well my dad would be sorely disappointed in me that I didn't rank Bruiser & Crusher or The Vachons. Shame!!!

17. Crusher and Dick The Bruiser- 127.25 points

Crusher and Bruiser were one of the top drawing teams in the AWA for so long which gave them a big boost on my list. I may have overrated their in ring work but they were both so emotive in their mannerisms they could draw any crowd into a match real easily. They were almost like the AWA's version of the Megapowers but they teamed for 20 years, Crusher was a multi-time world champion on his own and Dick The Bruiser was the top draw in the Indianapolis territory. Plus they are living avatars of what most think of when it comes to wrestlers in the 50's and 60's, just two big burly brawlers. I had to give the nod to two of the most reognizible wrestlers of the 50's and 60's.

Jul 27, 2021 10:21:12 GMT 🤯 said:

Wait... Memphis didn't just run in Memphis!?!?

Short answer is no. I'll post the long answer (along with more Fabs videos!) in the USWA thread to avoid cluttering up this one.
Also, I'm kicking myself for not titling that thread "Real In Memphis." Can't figure out how to use my sweet mod powers to change it either. Oh well.
=============
Bruiser & Crusher- Whoops. They completely slipped my mind when I was thinking of old school teams worthy of a spot on my list. A quick search confirms what I suspected- they held the AWA Tag Titles more times, and for more days, than any other team. As beer drinking, cigar smoking, brawling babyfaces, they were like a 60s & 70s Midwestern version of Stone Cold & The Sandman, only with more polka. AWA crowds loved them. Deserving of a spot on our countdown even if I forgot all about them, and am frankly not a fan. 
=============
iron maiden I think it's cool that you and some of the others had parents who were wrestling fans. I was not so lucky, though I do give my parents credit for putting up with my wrestling obsession. Particularly when my brother and I were first getting into it in the late 80s. 

Jul 28, 2021 0:22:18 GMT Shootist said:

Plus they are living avatars of what most think of when it comes to wrestlers in the 50's and 60's

This is so true. 

Jul 28, 2021 0:24:40 GMT Baker said:

=============
iron maiden I think it's cool that you and some of the others had parents who were wrestling fans. I was not so lucky, though I do give my parents credit for putting up with my wrestling obsession. Particularly when my brother and I were first getting into it in the late 80s. 

It was not cool when I was growing up. People made fun of me then and now. :lol:

My mom 'puts up with it', my dad is the one who I would watch with and go to local shows with.  Some of the better memories I have of my dad.  

There it is 🤯.

When I was making my list , in the midst of Money Inc having an incredibly prominent role on WWF television I might have given them a little too much credit. I didn't have them this high but they did make it in the 40's for me. Now I think if they do belong on the list it should be right on the edge towards 50 if anything.

Granted I've also grown to dislike IRS more and more but even looking at their entire run as a team , their biggest argument to be on the list is how much they were relied on week in and week out to go out on television and at least give the Steiners something to do whilst the division rose back up. And when Dibiase was talking they had solid promos.

On the other hand though , they have like one good match in their entire run , maybe two if you include the Superstars Steiners match that ended in a wonky finish. For a Dibiase run that's just not good enough. Also if we are going to punish teams for being thrown together after the fact than why doesn't that count for Dibiase who was coming off a great career as one of the best heels of the golden era and decided apparently to just pick up this dead weight Rotunda along the side of the rode? It would be like HHH picking up naked Mideon around 2006 and just tagging with him under a different gimmick.

So looking back , they are at least 12-15 spots too high. They don't deserve to be above some of the teams already mentioned.

Jul 28, 2021 13:54:52 GMT UT said:

There it is 🤯.

When I was making my list , in the midst of Money Inc having an incredibly prominent role on WWF television I might have given them a little too much credit. I didn't have them this high but they did make it in the 40's for me. Now I think if they do belong on the list it should be right on the edge towards 50 if anything.

Granted I've also grown to dislike IRS more and more but even looking at their entire run as a team , their biggest argument to be on the list is how much they were relied on week in and week out to go out on television and at least give the Steiners something to do whilst the division rose back up. And when Dibiase was talking they had solid promos.

On the other hand though , they have like one good match in their entire run , maybe two if you include the Superstars Steiners match that ended in a wonky finish. For a Dibiase run that's just not good enough. Also if we are going to punish teams for being thrown together after the fact than why doesn't that count for Dibiase who was coming off a great career as one of the best heels of the golden era and decided apparently to just pick up this dead weight Rotunda along the side of the rode? It would be like HHH picking up naked Mideon around 2006 and just tagging with him under a different gimmick.

So looking back , they are at least 12-15 spots too high. They don't deserve to be above some of the teams already mentioned.

I'm feeling like I fell in the same trap, and probably overrated them a lot on the fact they faced Hogan at a WrestleMania and also tangled with LOD and Steiners as even foes.

I had them at #41, which does feel at least 10 spots too high. And objectively more like 41 spots too high.

I do extend slack on being thrown together. Despite that being their origin, their money character connection made it work and they stuck together with enough high profile success for long enough to erase the thrown-togetherness for me.

Also, as much as IRS is bores me to death too, I think you're underrating how relevant he was to the scene from '91 through '94. So as hilarious as the Naked Mideon analogy is, I think it'd be more like if 2008 HHH suddenly started teaming successfully with new RAW GM William Regal. Bonded by an affinity for abusing power and pulling political strings, it'd nevertheless be odd to see HHH start "slumming" it with Regal in the tag division... Even if they kept a stranglehold on the gold.

I mean I know I'm exaggerating quite a bit with the Naked Mideon comps and that IRS played an incredibly prominent role but I just have grown to dislike him so much. It does still feel like Dibiase was punching down though.

Holy shit I just put 2+2 together that Rotunda is Bray Wyatts dad. I mean I knew it but it never even occurred to me that two of my least favorite wrestlers or gimmicks are father and son and they are completely different personas. Weird. Probably because they both have the habit of jabbering on and on about nothing.

#5 Dick The Bruiser and The Crusher

From my understanding, they were two of the biggest stars who fans bought as legitimate tough guys. In a way they were the prototypical Road Warriors where they just had this legitimacy to them and fans just couldn't wait to see them pulvarise their opponents. That was a really stacked time for tag team wrestling and they had a lot of strong rivalries with The Outlaws, The Vachons, The Blackjacks and they worked with all the top stars including Baba and Inoki.

Again, I feel like my laziness with research failed me hard since I excluded Bruise & Crush from my final list after considering them only briefly. They sound so bad ass awesome. Did they ever tangle with Hansen & Brody? Feel like that might've had epic dream match potential.

I think 🤯 just likes the idea of calling them Bruise and Crush as Demolition 3.0.

Jul 28, 2021 15:19:55 GMT UT said:

I think 🤯 just likes the idea of calling them Bruise and Crush as Demolition 3.0.

So?

...

-_-

Jul 28, 2021 15:19:55 GMT UT said:

I think 🤯 just likes the idea of calling them Bruise and Crush as Demolition 3.0.

Actually, I'd think of them as Demolition 0.0 but want to call them Bump & Bruise.

Jul 28, 2021 15:57:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 28, 2021 15:19:55 GMT UT said:

I think 🤯 just likes the idea of calling them Bruise and Crush as Demolition 3.0.

Actually, I'd think of them as Demolition 0.0 but want to call them Bump & Bruise.

Bump and Bruise the Black and Blue Crew coming to drink beer and kick ass in a city near you!

Jul 28, 2021 16:01:43 GMT UT said:

Jul 28, 2021 15:57:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Actually, I'd think of them as Demolition 0.0 but want to call them Bump & Bruise.

Bump and Bruise the Black and Blue Crew coming to drink beer and kick ass in a city near you!

Holy shit, that's gold. GOLD, Jerry!

Jul 28, 2021 16:03:00 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 28, 2021 16:01:43 GMT UT said:

Bump and Bruise the Black and Blue Crew coming to drink beer and kick ass in a city near you!

Holy shit, that's gold. GOLD, Jerry!

I could have written for 70s and 80s AWA.

Money Inc. came in at 64 on my extended list. I may have short changed them a bit as I forgot they worked with Hogan and Beefcake. They just didn't have the staying power of other teams though. I disagree with UT on being thrown together, like 🤯 said they had a common theme in money and they worked well together. Both were classic heels who did their job well, 45-60 seems about right for them.

Yeah I thought about them but alas they did not make my list. They were a fun concept and team though. LOVE me some Ted DiBiase. One of my all time faves.

39. Money Inc- Made my list for their kayfabe success. Only a handful of teams in WWF history held the tag titles for more combined days than Money Inc. They also got a boost by working with Hogan at a Wrestlemania. I thought the Beefcake angle which lead to that 'Mania match was well done. It got IRS over as the biggest jerk in wrestling to me. They were instrumental in Razor Ramon's face turn as well. Plus I liked the "money" theme they had going on. Call them a thrown together team if you must, but at least it made sense given their characters.

I get where you guys are coming from though, and actually feel the same way to a large degree. They score low on longevity and match quality.

But my biggest problem with Money Inc. is they never felt like as big a deal as they should have. That's even with basically dominating the tag division for 16 months and working with Hogan at a Wrestlemania.

A great example of what I'm talking about is being shocked when I got my 1996 PWI Almanac and discovered Money Inc. were one of the most decorated tag team champions in WWF history. It certainly didn't feel that way in real time. Fwiw there is one other team which may or may not make the countdown that I feel the same way about. Basically, Money Inc were the Smoking Gunns of their day. Yeah, they held the tag titles a bunch of times for a bunch of days, but they never seemed like an all time great team. I can tell you almost nothing about their feuds with the Natural Disasters, LOD, and the Steiners other than they happened. And these are big time/important tag teams!

Loved Dibiase. Loved Jimmy Hart. And actually liked IRS a lot. Certainly more than you guys. But I never loved Money Inc. They were just kind of there, never fully clicking with me. 

Baker-man, tell me with a straight face you actually ENJOYED Irwin in the ring.

Outside of it, I get it and am even mostly with you. But in the ring, to echo UT, he was borderline Mideon boring.

He is not a good promo. There is nothing there. No one can convince me otherwise.