What's weird is, is how good he was in the ring pre-IRS. It's almost like was he wrestling that boring style as an intentional artist to reinforce how boring and terrible a character self-identifying with the IRS must be? If it was all entirely intentional, dude's a master stroke genius.

Only if it was after the crowd chanted Cane Bray.

Jul 29, 2021 0:15:15 GMT 🤯 said:

Baker -man, tell me with a straight face you actually ENJOYED Irwin in the ring.

Outside of it, I get it and am even mostly with you. But in the ring, to echo UT , he was borderline Mideon boring.

Thing is I really didn't give a hoot about ring work in those days. I was a character guy all the way. That's why I liked Borga, Quebecers, and Original Doink. The fact that I enjoyed their matches was just icing on the cake. As silly as it sounds today, the idea of so and so being a "good wrestler" never even consciously crossed my mind until 1995. I'm sure you guys (and the rest of the internet) are right and IRS is boring in the ring. But I'll play devil's advocate anyway...

I just criticized my guy Papa Shango in the Superstars thread for never figuring out a way to effectively wrestle as a Voodoo priest. Well, IRS wrestled exactly how you'd expect an accountant to wrestle. Long, sweaty chinlocks. Facial expressions that ran the gamut from "bored" to "annoyed." Lots and lots of abdominal stretches. Come to think of it, has any wrestler over the last 35 years gotten more out of the abdominal stretch? I think not! You knew Irwin was going to hook a guy in an abdominal stretch. And you knew he was going to cheat by grabbing the ropes for extra leverage. And you better believe the crowd is going to boo Irwin every single time. Bam! Like clockwork.

He also pioneered the use of the briefcase as a weapon in wrestling. My man Mongo was just an IRS wannabe. Same goes for that 3rd generation hack Edge. 

IRS= Innovating Rasslin' Superlative....ness

Was gonna do an Edge thread elsewhere, but not now since he's a 3rd gen HACK.

Least The Rock was a 3rd gen SOOPERSTAR.

Jul 29, 2021 0:35:16 GMT 🤯 said:

What's weird is, is how good he was in the ring pre-IRS. It's almost like was he wrestling that boring style as an intentional artist to reinforce how boring and terrible a character self-identifying with the IRS must be? If it was all entirely intentional, dude's a master stroke genius.

Nailed it! See my latest post. Once again, great minds...

General consensus is his in ring peak came in late 80s NWA as a member of the Varsity Club. But even then there is considerable debate over whether he was "mildly good" or simply "slightly less boring than IRS." His mid 80s run teaming with Barry Windham as a white meat babyface is another contender for peak Mike Rotunda. I really should watch more of that run just for the surreal nature of seeing IRS as an 80s style white meat babyface.

Truth is Mike Rotunda was just a punch clock wrestler who saw wrestling as a job and nothing more. He was going to show up and do the job without ever going the extra mile. This is by his own admission.

@ness I'm not really an Edge hater. He made my 50 Favorite Wrestlers list when we did that countdown last year! It's just that some must fall so that others may rise- IRS in this case.

So IRS was the founding father of the JOB Squad?

Pin me, pay me.

Jul 29, 2021 1:10:29 GMT @ness said:

So IRS was the founding father of the JOB Squad?

Pin me, pay me.

Pretty much.

Another good IRS running gag was him taking tie-related offense. Yet another crowd pleasing spot from the tax man.

Hmm...I started out just playing devil's advocate, but now I've talked myself into thinking IRS may have actually been good.

On the abdominal stretch debate, Scott Hall would give IRS a run for his money.

Watching some IRS matches now because of course I am. Another cool thing about his matches is the "Irwin" chant. Got the crowd into it and he would sell it with his Mt. Rushmore* level piss face. Irwin's stock continues to rise.

*Other members of the pissface Mt. Rushmore include Mr. Hughes, heel Tatanka, and Regal as the pissface GOAT.

EDIT: "Pissface" was a term my brother and I came up with when looking through his yearbook one year. I commented that some teacher looked like he just drank a cup full of piss. He thought it was hilarious and true. Hence "pissface" becoming a thing. 

You've got to be trolling me with his intentionally being boring in the ring , he was boring , used restholds and slow because of the shape he was in by that point. All credit to the dude - he had a long successful career up to that point but he clearly lost all his stamina and a ton of his ability because he couldn't go 5 minutes.

And I don't want to be pegged as a ring guy either , I generally don't care either , especially depending on the character but his character work out bores his ring work. I'd rather actually watch him wrestle than listen to him talk at this point.

FWIW - Regal probably has the goat piss face. Regal probably is on the Rushmore of facial expressions overall. It's really his best quality.

Something about being in a shirt and tie made IRS look bloated and out of shape. When he came back to WCW as VK Wallstreet and was in a singlet I was surprised at how trim he looked.

Always fascinated how tiny old school belts appear

Are we talking Bray or his father? Because Bray is excellent.

And never mind. We are on a new page.

Always preferred the New Blackjacks personally...

40. The Blackjacks (Blackjack Mulligan and Blackjack Lanza)- 97.25 points

The Blackjacks were pretty good draws in both the AWA and the WWWF in their heyday and were one of the better heel teams of the era. Looking back they even headlined a Soldier Field card in Chicago against Crusher and Bruiser so they cold be trusted in a main event spot as well. They played the rough and tumble cowboy gimmick to a tee and were just one of the more recognizable teams of the 70's.

I've forever heard about The Blackjacks and know the basics about them , and that they were a pretty big deal. Still couldn't find any infamous or must see matches for them though.

Blackjacks- One of the first pre-1980s tag teams a wrestling fan is likely to name. Wrestled in WWF & AWA. Won the WWF tag titles. Were popular enough to spawn a "New" version a quarter century after their prime. Also influenced Barry Windham's sweet 88-89 Horsemen run. Both men utilized The Claw.

And now to be That Guy. I'm with UT. Somebody needs to sell me on the Blackjacks because right now it's looking like they're ALL hype & narrative like some kind of 70s version of the Brothers of Destruction, DX, or Rock & Sock. 

I was expecting year long, or multiple, WWF & AWA Tag Title reigns. In reality, they only held the WWF Tag Titles once....for under 3 months, the AWA straps not at all, and some regional tag titles in Texas & Michigan. 

I realize Cagematch records are spotty once you go that far back, but Cagematch only has records for 73 Blackjacks matches. That's nothing! For comparison sake, 490 Fabulous Kangaroos are listed despite the 'Roos peaking at least a decade earlier than the 'Jacks.

Where were the Blackjacks a big deal for an extended period of time? For example, I spent multiple posts explaining how big the Fabulous Ones were in Memphis. What is the Blackjack equivalent?

Not even trying to be a troll. I'm genuinely curious. Because with the limited data I've been able to find there's no way they would crack my Top 100. Can't even imagine them cracking my Top 200 at the moment. 

Yeah Cagematch is far and away the best source out there for match history and they didn’t have much and a lot of what I assume is their bigger matches seemed kind of off. I get it was a different time and all that but there are teams you can still find pieces on too that list matches.

Sounds like I'm not the only one who prefers the New Blackjacks. -_-

Jul 30, 2021 0:32:56 GMT 🤯 said:

Sounds like I'm not the only one who prefers the New Blackjacks. -_-

I prefer no blackjack. And I’m the foremost blackjack expert on PW.

Wrestlingdata has 218 matches documented, early on it seems they split time between Dallas and Houston. Wrestling for the Von Erichs and Paul Boesch wasn't exactly chump change back then. I think Boesch is regarded as one of the best payoff guys of the territory era. Looking through their WWWF run they did have several semi-main events against Andre The Giant and friends at MSG and the Boston Garden. I forgot how early they broke up initially with Mulligan starting his singles run in 1976. I guess I could have docked them more points on longevity. Everything I've read through the years has the Blackjacks as one of the top tag team attractions of the 70's.

I had The Blackjacks as #14 because of my dad. He watched them mostly in the WWWF. They were probably his second or third favorite Tag team. I didn't get much exposure for the old Blackjacks, but my dad loved them. You gotta be someone when you are managed by Captain Lou and Bobby Heenan who also inducted them into the HoF.

Meh. TNA.




Meh.

Meh TNA Meh is perfect for this team. While they were the faces of the tag team of TNA, I absolutely never saw what was great about them. I remember even watching some random TNA PPV and just didn't understand the hype while watching them. I get what they did as a team was cool and all, but they were never my cup of tea-er-beer.

I forgot the Blackjacks, on reputation I would have had them on the list.

As far as I know, they were two big Texans who were one of the biggest tag teams of the 1970s and got over everywhere they went but especially in Texas where they worked a strong program with the Funk Brothers. Teamed for 14 years, got over everywhere including the WWWF yeah you have to tip your cap to them.

Beer Money didn't make my list, but at one point in time they were the best tag team in the best tag division in the country. Both guys were just made for one another Roode was the technician who just needed some charisma and Storm was that promo who was limited in the ring. Put them together and you had one of the best acts of the late 2000s/early 2010s. Not even TNA's horrendous booking could get the better of them and while they had a thousand matches with The Motor City Machine Guns they forged such a strong rivalry that fans didn't care.

They had a massive feud which lingered on for years. I think they eventually buried the hatchet and did a reunion tour but by that point the landscape of TNA had changed so much and I'm not sure if they were on Spike TV by that point.

I had Beer Money at #20. Both Roode and Storm are fantastic in ring and on the mic and made a great Tag Team. One of the reasons I kept watching TNA.

Jul 30, 2021 16:05:11 GMT UT said:

Meh. TNA.




Meh.

I just refuse to accept that even the greatest team in TNA history is better than the Top 50 teams that WWF , WCW , NWA , ECW and all the other countless territories combined.

I mean not even 50 in this case - like 35.

Oops meant to quote KING KID

I have 4 TNA Tag Teams on my list. You have to remember a) as a Canadian with no cable I had very limited exposure to some of the wrestling shows you guys had when I was growing up. Stampede and WWE is all we got and then WCW and TNA later on. Now we get RoH, AEW, etc IF you pay for the Fight Network or extra sports channels.

I would gladly put up some of the TNA divisions against what the WWE was pumping out at the same time (Tag, Women's, X, etc). At least they had a proper Tag Division with several cohesive teams. WWE hasn't for years (at least on the Main Roster) or does in bits and bobs but then old Vinny Mac gets bored and it's flushed down the drain again or he slaps two singles' guys together and they carry the division running roughshod over all actual Tag Teams. WCW did the same in later years.

RT is right.  UT hates fun. 

If the greatest wrestling match in the world happened and no one was there to see it… did it really happen?

I get that it’s a really myopic point of view but at the same time how much of an impact (pun not intended) could they have really made?