Dec 31, 2021 2:26:48 GMT 🤯 said:

Where am I?

New Years Resolutions still belongs in Pop Culture. It being out of it is as misplaced as this post.

Goofy Kurt is best Kurt, but there is no bad Kurt.

Dec 31, 2021 2:35:14 GMT Baker said:

Goofy Kurt is best Kurt, but there is no bad Kurt.

As accurate as everything you've ever said about Hardcore Holly

Dec 31, 2021 3:15:14 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 31, 2021 2:35:14 GMT Baker said:

Goofy Kurt is best Kurt, but there is no bad Kurt.

As accurate as everything you've ever said about Hardcore Holly

You just reminded me to put you over. 

Last night I checked to see how Hardcore Holly did in PW's Favorite Wrestler Countdown.

Answer: Poorly.

He only got 1 Vote worth 8 Points. That lone voter? My man 🤯.

Fwiw I had him in the 80s on my big list. Not too shabby. Putting that into context, I had him just above the Hall of Fame trio of Steve Austin, Great Muta, and Randy Savage.

Let's say Brock didn't leave after 20. How do you think he would've been booked? Move to Raw? Same old shit just no JBL and it goes in the same direction to put over Cena? Could do the backstory to their Backlash match, 2 years of training to beat the Ro-Brock 5000? What was Kurt doing in 2004-5?

🤯 it's your boy (but not one of the boys) assuming there's no burnout to interfere where did you see Brock doing after the Goldberg match. Does Goldberg stay and they just rule both brands for a full year and then meet up winner takes all whank. Does Brock join evolution in a weird ass suit? Batista is released because they got Brock. Fuck off.

Jan 2, 2022 23:56:57 GMT @ness said:

Let's say Brock didn't leave after 20. How do you think he would've been booked? Move to Raw? Same old shit just no JBL and it goes in the same direction to put over Cena? Could do the backstory to their Backlash match, 2 years of training to beat the Ro-Brock 5000? What was Kurt doing in 2004-5?

🤯 it's your boy (but not one of the boys) assuming there's no burnout to interfere where did you see Brock doing after the Goldberg match. Does Goldberg stay and they just rule both brands for a full year and then meet up winner takes all whank. Does Brock join evolution in a weird ass suit? Batista is released because they got Brock. Fuck off.

If I know Brock isn't leaving but Goldberg is (or fuck it, even if Goldberg isn't) step one is Brock goes over at WMXX.

I'd have to think about the rest...

Jan 3, 2022 1:14:18 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 2, 2022 23:56:57 GMT @ness said:

Let's say Brock didn't leave after 20. How do you think he would've been booked? Move to Raw? Same old shit just no JBL and it goes in the same direction to put over Cena? Could do the backstory to their Backlash match, 2 years of training to beat the Ro-Brock 5000? What was Kurt doing in 2004-5?

🤯 it's your boy (but not one of the boys) assuming there's no burnout to interfere where did you see Brock doing after the Goldberg match. Does Goldberg stay and they just rule both brands for a full year and then meet up winner takes all whank. Does Brock join evolution in a weird ass suit? Batista is released because they got Brock. Fuck off.

If I know Brock isn't leaving but Goldberg is (or fuck it, even if Goldberg isn't) step one is Brock goes over at WMXX.

I'd have to think about the rest...

OK, keeping everything else the same EXCEPT Brock goes over Goldberg since the former is staying on while the latter is peacing out...

Use the 2004 draft lottery to send Brock to RAW. Shelton Benjamin, Edge, Rhyno, Tajiri, and SmackDown! GM Paul Heyman get drafted to RAW as well. Build to the following Backlash card in Edmonton, Alberta:
- Benoit defends the WHC against Brock via submission.
- Heyman defeats Bischoff to become the Raw General Manager.
- HHH defeats HBK in HIAC to finally "end" their rivalry.
- Edge defeats Kane via DQ.
- Orton defeats Foley in a hardcore match just like IRL. Orton's IC title isn't at stake because he lost it to Jericho on RAW.
- Fresh heel Trish wins the women's belt from stale face Victoria.
- Jericho defends the IC title against Christian in a ladder match. No Trish in Christian's corner because selfish Trish was focused on prepping for her own match...
- Shelton defeats one half of the tag champs Flair (w/ other half Batista).
- Odd couple de facto faces Rhyno & Tajiri defeat La Résistance.

Key beats at least in the main event scene mostly stay the same on SmackDown!'s side of things.

In the wake of Backlash, Heyman immediately begins reshaping RAW into his vision for the brand, putting himself at odds with Evolution since he favors Brock over them whenever forced to choose. Brock is used sparingly on RAW though, so the tension instances are rare. Slow burn. Build to a Bad Blood card featuring:
- Benoit defends the WHC against HHH... albeit via DQ when the rest of Evolution attacks while Benoit has HHH in the crossface.
- Edge defeats Kane in a Last Man Standing.
- Brock defeats HBK.
- Jericho retains the IC title against Batista after backfiring interference from Flair.
- Shelton upsets Orton. After the match, Orton RKOs Shelton onto a chair.
- Eugene really upsets Flair with some shockingly fancy pinning combination.
- Rhyno & Tajiri defend the tag titles against La Résistance. La Résistance is forced to disband permanently as a consequence of losing.
- Trish defends the women's belt against Gail Kim after an interfering simp Christian hits an Unprettier on Kim.

Key beats at least in the main event scene mostly stay the same on SmackDown!'s side of things.

On RAW, build to a Vengeance card looking like:
- Shelton wins the IC title in gauntlet match also involving Jericho, Orton, Batista, Flair, and Matt Hardy.
- Trish defends the women's belt against de facto face Molly Holly. Molly is forced into retirement as a consequence of losing.
- Rhyno & Tajiri defend the tag titles against recently turned supervillains Hurricane & Rosey.
- Edge "upsets" Brock to become the number one contender for the WHC heading into SummerSlam in Toronto.
- Kane kills Eugene.
- Benoit defends the WHC against HHH in an iron man match. Evolution is barred from ringside at the threat of indefinite suspension. HBK is the special guest referee to help ensure no shenanigans.

Key beats at least in the main event scene mostly stay the same on SmackDown!'s side of things. Overall, build to a SummerSlam card in Toronto featuring:
- Edge defeats Benoit for the WHC in a face vs. face match, but with Edge having an increasingly heel... edge (-_-) as his hometown crowd turns on him more and more throughout the bout.
- Brock defeats HHH (w/ Flair) after countering the Pedigree into an F5.
- Shelton defends the IC title in a proto-MITB ladder match against Orton, Batista, Jericho, Matt Hardy, and Kane.
- Trish retains the women's title against Lita with simp Christian as special guest ref.

Key beats at least in the main event scene mostly stay the same on SmackDown!'s side of things.

On RAW, build to an Unforgiven looking like:
- Edge defends the WHC against Benoit in a TLC match harkening back to Edge's No DQ match against Eddie on SD! in September 2002.
- Brock defeats HBK. After the match, a vengeful HHH sics Evolution on Brock.
- Jericho defeats Christian in an I Quit to end their rivalry.
- Then... Fuck it, I'm running out of steam and realizing I should've kept Brock on SmackDown! instead.

I'll be back at some point with a SD! timeline.

Could def. get behind a Brock/Shawn series of matches.

🤯, I respect you, booker-man. Nice booking.

If Brock stayed, there should be an angle where Brock kills John Cena in the ring around 2007/2008, like Drago killing Apollo Creed, then maybe the WWE doesn't hemorrhage viewership for the next decade plus with Brock as the new ace who saved wrestling.

Jan 4, 2022 2:26:26 GMT Kilgore said:

If Brock stayed, there should be an angle where Brock kills John Cena in the ring around 2007/2008, like Drago killing Apollo Creed, then maybe the WWE doesn't hemorrhage viewership for the next decade plus with Brock as the new ace who saved wrestling.

Damnit. I want to like this sooo baaad... Must. Resist.

Just realized Brock quit two months after going through a war with main event superstar Hardcore Holly and didn't come back until Holly's WWE career was safely in the rear view mirror. Coincidence? I think not.

Jan 4, 2022 2:45:41 GMT Baker said:

Just realized Brock quit two months after going through a war with main event superstar Hardcore Holly and didn't come back until Holly's WWE career was safely in the rear view mirror. Coincidence? I think not.

As Brock's biggest mark on PW (or perhaps ever?) I have zero qualms with readily admitting The Beast Incarnate fears Bobcore. When Bobcore finished the match after that "botched" powerbomb killshot, Brock knew there was truly no killing Bobcore.

Hunter Brock is the best babyface version of Lesner & the 2nd best incarnation besides the early next big thing, Lesner. Who is by far my favorite monster heel character

I've been going down an AWA rabbit hole over the past week or so. Yesterday I listened to Bischoff's podcast chronicling his time with the promotion. He had a lot of respect for Verne. While Bischoff never comes right out and says it, I can't help thinking at least a part of him viewed his WWF talent raids as payback for what Vince did to Verne.

TNA Kurt's brain was broken by that point. He wanted every match to be an epic and every ham and egger got to kick out of an Angle Slam to artificially make the match seem bigger. He needed someone with a better mind for match layout to lead him by the nose like Jarrett, Joe, AJ, Sting, or somebody.

Random thought on pro wrestling, but has any rapper ever name dropped Bam Bam Bigelow in a lyric? I feel like they would have been at some point.😂

Jan 8, 2022 15:21:35 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Random thought on pro wrestling, but has any rapper ever name dropped Bam Bam Bigelow in a lyric? I feel like they would have been at some point.😂

I kind of touched on this in the change the result thread but I need to get this out now, long story short I began watching every WWF show in order starting at Mania 14 at the start of lockdown when I was furloughed.

So fast forward to today I am currently one half of SmackDown away from the 2002 Royal Rumble and having seen the shit show of a segment on this show I can’t justify this direction anymore.

Chris Jerichos undisputed title reign is awful, by far the worst title reign since I started this, atleast Big Shows 1999 run was short and kept in the background of bigger storylines. Chris Jericho on the other hand is getting ten minutes a show to cut horrifically generic heel promos every week, it’s beyond tedious.

We’re now on the run to Mania 18 and knowing what a let down that entire event was bar Rock v Hogan and the alarming signs taking place here I’m in utter disbelief the plans were not changed. Mania 18 is a very quick and easy rebook from potential greatness. You can play this out as it does with a minor change, at No Way Out Austin beats Jericho giving you Austin v Triple H in the main event, this perfectly plays on the Triple H injury happening during the 2 man power trip, that is basically ignored when he comes back. Yes keeping both men babyfaces would have been tough, Austin is running hot with the What stuff, but some Triple H promo work and getting rid of Steph should be enough to keep the match face v face.

As for the undercard it actually enhances it, instead of what to be honest we’re underwhelming undercard matches in Angle v Kane and Edge v Booker you can shift to Edge v Jericho, Booker can turn babyface earlier (he is on this road by the Rumble anyway) and you can take an inconfident Flair out of the Taker match and do Kane v Taker in your street fight match of the show.

Undisputed Championship
SCSA (c) v Triple H

The Rock v Hulk Hogan

Womens Championship
Trish (c) v Jazz v Lita

Street Fight
Undertaker v Kane

Edge v Chris Jericho

Booker T v Kurt Angle

Fatal 4 Way Tag Titles

European Championship
Christian (c) v DDP

Hardcore title open challenge

IC Championship
RVD v Regal

Rant over 😂

Jan 8, 2022 22:11:33 GMT Peepshow said:

Chris Jerichos undisputed title reign is awful

Automatic like. Not a fan of you scrapping Taker/Flair though. That was my MOTN. Speaking of likes, 🤯 I see you.

@ness and 🤯 have me thinking I may have missed the boat on Test. Was never a fan. Thought he was bland. But he did have the GOAT big boot and some snap on his power moves. Did he ever have any good matches other than the miracle match with Shane, T&A/Hardys tags, and vs. Tajiri that one time on Smackdown?

Speaking of Tajiri, Kilgore needs to find the clip where Tajiri has one guy in the Tarantula, mists the guy trying to interfere, and then buzzsaw kicks one or both of them. I've been looking for that pretty much since the gif thread started. Thought it was the Corino match. Alas, no luck.

Back to dropkicks, I'm gonna blow some minds if I can ever find The Gene Ligon Dropkick.

Jan 9, 2022 1:47:31 GMT Baker said:

Jan 8, 2022 22:11:33 GMT Peepshow said:

Chris Jerichos undisputed title reign is awful

Automatic like. Not a fan of you scrapping Taker/Flair though. That was my MOTN. Speaking of likes, 🤯 I see you.

@ness broke me.

As much as I loved/love Taker vs. Flair, part of me is convinced Vince vs. Flair could've been epic based on Vince vs. Shane the previous year and especially Vince vs. Hogan the following year. Never saw their Royal Rumble match, but since it's never really talked about, I presume it wasn't as balls-to-the-wall crazy as a clash at a WrestleMania likely would've been. If Vince/Flair at Mania could've completed a Vince trifecta along with Shane and Hogan, I'd be OK waiting on Taker/Flair until Backlash or Judgment Day or whenever after or before WrestleMania X8.

I wouldn't run Taker/Kane though. I'd probably postpone the Taker heel turn or have heel Taker begrudgingly partner with Kane to run Brothers of Destruction against the Outsiders.

🤯 is back! I *like* this

EDIT: Flair/Vince from the Rumble was good, but sadly forgotten. 

Jan 9, 2022 2:07:10 GMT Baker said:

@ness and 🤯 have me thinking I may have missed the boat on Test. Was never a fan. Thought he was bland. But he did have the GOAT big boot and some snap on his power moves. Did he ever have any good matches other than the miracle match with Shane, T&A/Hardys tags, and vs. Tajiri that one time on Smackdown?

Speaking of Tajiri, Kilgore needs to find the clip where Tajiri has one guy in the Tarantula, mists the guy trying to interfere, and then buzzsaw kicks one or both of them. I've been looking for that pretty much since the gif thread started. Thought it was the Corino match. Alas, no luck.

Back to dropkicks, I'm gonna blow some minds if I can ever find The Gene Ligon Dropkick.

Test vs. Triple H on some SmackDown in late 2000, 2001, or possibly as late as 2002?

Test vs. Kane at Unforgiven 2001 inspired at least one Low Ki spot.

Think Test vs. Kurt also from a SmackDown, either late 2001 or possibly 2002.

Jan 9, 2022 2:53:25 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 9, 2022 2:07:10 GMT Baker said:

@ness and 🤯 have me thinking I may have missed the boat on Test. Was never a fan. Thought he was bland. But he did have the GOAT big boot and some snap on his power moves. Did he ever have any good matches other than the miracle match with Shane, T&A/Hardys tags, and vs. Tajiri that one time on Smackdown?

Speaking of Tajiri, Kilgore needs to find the clip where Tajiri has one guy in the Tarantula, mists the guy trying to interfere, and then buzzsaw kicks one or both of them. I've been looking for that pretty much since the gif thread started. Thought it was the Corino match. Alas, no luck.

Back to dropkicks, I'm gonna blow some minds if I can ever find The Gene Ligon Dropkick.

Test vs. Kane at Unforgiven 2001 inspired at least one Low Ki spot.

Low Ki AND Daniel Bryan! They aped the double big boot spot. I was very amused.

D'oh. Forgot about Taker/Test at Summerslam 2002. Remember liking that one. Though I'm sure at least some of that has to do with Taker reverting back to full fledged face status.

Jan 9, 2022 2:57:11 GMT Baker said:

Jan 9, 2022 2:53:25 GMT 🤯 said:

Test vs. Kane at Unforgiven 2001 inspired at least one Low Ki spot.

Low Ki AND Daniel Bryan! They aped the double big boot spot. I was very amused.

D'oh. Forgot about Taker/Test at Summerslam 2002. Remember liking that one. Though I'm sure at least some of that has to do with Taker reverting back to full fledged face status.

Taker/Test was good for what it was, which was exactly what you remember... A glorified squash to revert Taker to full fledged face American Bad Ass.

I vaguely feel like Test had a petty surprisingly high regarded match against a still very unproven Bobby Lashley, perhaps for the WWECW title... perhaps even on PPV? I've never sought it out though.

I vaguely also recall hearing Test had a similar surprising outing against RVD, like Bobcore but without any infamous back gashes.

Jan 9, 2022 2:50:41 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 9, 2022 1:47:31 GMT Baker said:

Automatic like. Not a fan of you scrapping Taker/Flair though. That was my MOTN. Speaking of likes, 🤯 I see you.

@ness broke me.

As much as I loved/love Taker vs. Flair, part of me is convinced Vince vs. Flair could've been epic based on Vince vs. Shane the previous year and especially Vince vs. Hogan the following year. Never saw their Royal Rumble match, but since it's never really talked about, I presume it wasn't as balls-to-the-wall crazy as a clash at a WrestleMania likely would've been. If Vince/Flair at Mania could've completed a Vince trifecta along with Shane and Hogan, I'd be OK waiting on Taker/Flair until Backlash or Judgment Day or whenever after or before WrestleMania X8.

I wouldn't run Taker/Kane though. I'd probably postpone the Taker heel turn or have heel Taker begrudgingly partner with Kane to run Brothers of Destruction against the Outsiders.

The Taker heel turn is a bizarre one watching this play out, was there an element of staleness to Taker during the Invasion? Yeah there was, largely due the dive bomb DDP stalker programme, an awful Kronik introduction, Taker had a lack of heels to work and seen as Austin was an instant babyface the moment Survivor Series went off the air, the Rocks a face, Triple H is coming back as a face, I get the need to move someone big over to the dark side.

However, the fans were not really in a place of wanting to boo him, he still gets major pops all the way into December, postponing the turn is definitely a possibility especially with the knowledge they have the NWO coming.

All in all Mania 18 is just a summary of post Invasion WWF as a whole, feels like the product lacks any motivation to do big things, they fall straight back into some Austin v McMahon sequel that has an extremely out of shape Big Boss Man return and punch him self out in a 3 minute beat down of Austin. 98 was not a good year for Raw, carried massively by Austin Rock and DX propping up a lot of dross, but this 2001-02 bridge has been easily the most painful time in the company from a viewer perspective.

Thing about Test... I can't think of any good matches or # of memorables. And that's what makes him one of the boys. Always felt like he had potential and fit so many boxes, but he never got super over or perhaps politics played a role. And fun fact I 100% bought into the Motley Crew bodyguard narrative. And yeah I'm one of those guys that likes the rewritten history of him taking Show's spot in 99... steal my bish, I steal YOURS.

Jan 9, 2022 12:24:09 GMT @ness said:

Thing about Test... I can't think of any good matches or # of memorables. And that's what makes him one of the boys. Always felt like he had potential and fit so many boxes, but he never got super over or perhaps politics played a role. And fun fact I 100% bought into the Motley Crew bodyguard narrative. And yeah I'm one of those guys that likes the rewritten history of him taking Show's spot in 99... steal my bish, I steal YOURS.

It literally only now just dawned on me that they were running parallel similar cuck storylines with Test/Steph/HHH and X-Pac/Tori/Kane in late '99. Armageddon's main event should've been some tag team action pitting HHH & X-Pac against Kane & Test in a "Winners Get the Girls" match.

Didn't Test also get the RVD 2006 rub as well?