WWECW is really underrated even during the initial parts where it was still trying to be ECW.

Since this draws from both the Best Dropkick and WWF Superstars threads, I figured I'd just post this here instead...

Is Test the Crush of the Attitude Era?

That really was an odd era for the WWF, @peepshow.

So the way they hit the reset button was by turning Vince into an egomaniac and having him start his Kiss My Ass club. That club was the major storyline and he had this new stable of guys made up of Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, William Regal, The Undertaker, Christian, Test, The Dudleys and later on Booker T & Bossman. The shows were basically booked around that group with The Rock, Steve Austin, Rob Van Dam, Big Show, Kane, Trish Stratus & Edge acting as foils. There was hardly any angles outside of the Hardy Boyz breaking up after their loss at Survivor Series and an angle where Lance Storm had to work odd jobs after being fired. The rest of the roster were basically made to put over the heels with Scotty 2 Hotty, Albert, Tazz, The APA, Spike Dudley & Tajiri having nothing better to do.

The whole pay off to the Kiss My Ass club was the return of Rikishi who helped The Rock get some measure of revenge on Vince. He received a decent push out of the gates but then quietly became a jobber to the stars.

One of the few entertaining storylines was Booker-Austin but I think it only gave us two fun episodes of RAW and SmackDown and didn't lead anywhere directly. I do feel like these angles did lead into the Goldust-Booker stuff which would be a major highlight of the show.

I hear you on Taker getting positive chants, but I thought his heel stuff was great and he was actually one of the highlights of this period. I feel like the positive reaction was a recognition of his work with guys like Rob, Matt, Maven etc. He's the one act I'm happy to keep as is.

Jan 9, 2022 14:31:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Since this draws from both the Best Dropkick and WWF Superstars threads, I figured I'd just post this here instead...

Is Test the Crush of the Attitude Era?

It's the easiest comparison. Big body guys who showed some athleticism but never could really capture the audience or rise to the level needed to be a major player. 

They kept trying with them both. Test was THE guy to come out of the immunity Battle Royal - which should have been a bigger deal but it was test. 

At least he brought us Trish Stratus. 

Man Test had some sway with the ladies. 

Trish , Stacy , Steph - if three of the most beautiful women in company history can't help you - nothing can. 

Test was awesome, loved his pairing with Trish Stratus and Albert. A shame they never got to really dominate the tag division as Tag team.

Jan 9, 2022 18:32:18 GMT Lony said:

Test was awesome, loved his pairing with Trish Stratus and Albert. A shame they never got to really dominate the tag division as Tag team.

They would've never dominated per se though. Or rather shouldn't have, as the existed at the same time as the APA. However, together T&A and APA absolutely should've at minimum dominated the 2000-2001 tag scene in WWF as heel and face foils for each other.

I wonder if T&A was any good in a hoss way because I completely glossed over them and only cared about Trish. They were a means to get her on screen both literally and what I cared about even as someone who enjoyed wrestling. T&A is probably the only time I didn't actively like Test.

Plus he legit clapped those Keibler cheeks, which I think we can all agree is more HOF worthy than 16 world titles.

Surprised 🤯 didn't mention Test/Brock at KOTR 2002. I remember that being a fun big man match.

The specific best dropsault for me was AJ Styles against Samoa Joe at Turning Point 2005. Video should hopefully take you to the moment. If not, it is at 3m 50s.

Jan 9, 2022 19:49:30 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 9, 2022 18:32:18 GMT Lony said:

Test was awesome, loved his pairing with Trish Stratus and Albert. A shame they never got to really dominate the tag division as Tag team.

They would've never dominated per se though. Or rather shouldn't have, as the existed at the same time as the APA. However, together T&A and APA absolutely should've at minimum dominated the 2000-2001 tag scene in WWF as heel and face foils for each other.

Fuck yes, I can get behind that. Just two hard hitting teams, beating the shit out of each other.

Jan 9, 2022 19:57:55 GMT Strobe said:

Surprised 🤯 didn't mention Test/Brock at KOTR 2002. I remember that being a fun big man match.

I specifically refrained because it's not all that much to write home about. Brock vs. Chuck Palumbo, Bubba Dudley, Billy Gunn, Rikishi, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, and Shannon Moore all rank ahead of it.

Now that it's brought up I remember both those semi matches (that and Jericho/RVD) getting praised at the time, but that was during my down period of paying attention to wrestling so I didn't see them until much later. Sorta like the original Spidey 2 being a great movie THEN but today it doesn't hold up. Also didn't like that KOTR was going into weaksauce mode where they did the quarters on free tv. Made it seem less of a big deal to win the whole thing. Don't think it was the first event they did it at, but long gone are the days of Bret battling through 3 grueling matches.

Overall I do think it's time for a proper boys thread.

William Regal got released recently, so let's look back at his prolific rapping career.





Also featured: Vladimir Kozlov. Anyone remember that guy?

As a character Regal was really great. Played both roles, serious and comedic. Had his shot at a main event and cemented himself as an authority figure. As far as careers go his really went places and never reached that JTG aura of "he's still here?"

Jan 9, 2022 14:31:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Is Test the Crush of the Attitude Era?

Yep. Love this comparison.
===========
I actually liked Taker's heel run. It freshened him up which he badly needed after a 2001 so boring he even lost this long time Takermaniac. The RVD hardcore match ruled. The Flair and Jeff Hardy stuff was even better. Even his two month run as Undisputed Champ worked. The initial brand split did wonders for making the title seem important again with guys fighting hard just for a shot at the champ. It hearkened back to the old territory days. But fans were never going to boo Taker for long so I was ready for him to revert back to babyface status when he did.
===========
I wasn't a T&A fan but I'll concede they suffered from bad timing. At best they were 6th on the tag team depth chart behind Hardys/Dudleys/E&C/APA/Too Cool. 
===========
Can't believe they released Regal. Figured he'd be a WWE lifer. Nobody is safe nowadays. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Triple H were future endeavored at this point.
==============
Anybody ever listen to Stories With Brisco & Bradshaw? Listened to my first episode today- half of a nearly three hour conversation with Sgt. Slaughter. JBL & Jerry mostly got out of the way and let Sarge tell his stories. Good stuff. Although Slaughter definitely suffers from Old Wrestler Syndrome where everything that drew and got over was his idea alone. Sarge talked about his early days as "Beautiful" Bobby Remus and admitted his first character was a mashup of his two favorite wrestlers- Da Crusher & Superstar Billy Graham. I wanted to see if any pictures exist. They do! And they're amazing. A young Sgt. Slaughter....

*Moved all Test posts from the Dropkick Thread over here.

Jan 9, 2022 14:13:49 GMT Big Pete said:

Didn't Test also get the RVD 2006 rub as well?

RVD was low key Foleyesque when it came to elevating midcarders. He made Jerry Lynn, gave Balls Mahoney credibility, helped Hardcore Holly get more over than he had been in years, and tried doing the same for Test.

Jan 9, 2022 14:31:33 GMT @ness said:

WWECW is really underrated even during the initial parts where it was still trying to be ECW.

The biggest problem with WWECW was calling it ECW. That turned off so many people. The internet outrage during the early days of WWECW was something to behold. It would have been infinitely better received had they just branded it Superstars or whatever rather than ECW. 

Comparing to their respective upper bodies, 1985 Tony Atlas had infinitely worse chicken legs than 1989 Rick Rude.

1985 Leaping Lanny looks like a dead ringer for Prince or maybe a skinny Johnny B. Badd.

Wrestling fans (myself included) love to come up with wrestling reasons for why promotions fail. It's usually much more boring than that. WCW ultimately ceased to exist not because of bad booking decisions, but because Jamie Kellner didn't want wrestling on TBS anymore. The AWA ultimately went under because the jerkass state of Minnesota was all "lol fuck you" and took Verne's land (which he had been mortgaging to keep AWA afloat) through eminent domain.

That being said, Verne was still a bonehead. Everybody knows about the Hogan situation. What has been lost to time is he repeated the same mistake not once, but twice!

Jerry Blackwell was Hogan's direct replacement as the big, badass top face. And Blackwell worked in the role! Not as well as Hogan mind you, but he was over, and he did draw well. Yet, much like Hogan, no AWA Championship for Blackwell.

Verne was then lucky enough to have Sgt. Slaughter fall into his lap after the Sarge had a falling out with Vince. Sarge, even more than Blackwell, should have been the guy in AWA. Due to his GI Joe connection Sarge was the most well known non-WWF wrestler in the business among the all important cartoon watching young male demographic that Vince had cornered the market on. Small sample size, but I don't even think half my kiddie peers knew who Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes were. And that's a conservative estimate since I don't recall the other kids ever talking about NWA until the Black Scorpion angle generated some playground buzz. Yet I'd wager every single one of them knew who Sgt. Slaughter was. You needed your own Hogan to compete with Vince. Sarge could/should have been that guy. He was also a good enough worker to get over with the more discerning older fans. Sarge could bleed and bump and brawl with the best of them. Plus patriotic characters like Sarge were the most automatic babyface gimmick of the era. I've watched a lot of babyface Slaughter matches over the past few days. Every single one of them featured "USA" chants- usually loud and lengthy. Build the company around him. Count the dimes.

But nah. Verne decided to go with Rick Martel, Stan Hansen, and Nick Bockwinkle instead. Now all those guys are good wrestlers, but none of them had that mainstream crossover appeal needed to combat Vince in the mid 80s, and Hansen's reign in particular ended in embarrassment for the company. 

People also forget Verne had the Road Warriors, Freebirds, and Fabulous Ones at the same time! These were three of the most over tag teams in the country. All had ruled a territory or two in recent memory. Yet only the Road Warriors really got over big time in AWA. Yeah, politics were involved with the Roadies being difficult, but I still think Verne should have got a whole lot more out of the Birds and Fabs. 

Anyway, my inevitable Saving The AWA fanfic project draws ever near...

About a week ago I was wondering why WWF never brought Jerry Blackwell in during their expansion years. He's a perfect fit on paper as a 400+ pounder who had worked with Hogan in the past. Too short? The one superheavyweight Hogan didn't enjoy working with? An early case of Vince's anti-Southern bias?

Turns out it's none of the above. WWF actually reached out to Blackwell fairly early on. Blackwell was all set for a surprise debut at a St. Louis tv taping around May 1984. He showed up to the building and everything. Story I read last week claimed Blackwell got cold feet at the last minute. Verne had been good to him. And what if this whole national expansion thing flops? So Blackwell walked out at the last second. BUT I just read his Wikipedia entry which tells this different story...

"Blackwell considered joining WWF during the promotion's expansion in 1984. Before being signed, wrestlers were required to record promos, but the large number of wrestlers wanting to join the WWF made for a long lineup on a day while the interviews were being recorded. Blackwell got so frustrated with standing in line that he left, claiming that he was a wrestler and did not want to feel like he was punching a time clock for a corporation."

Whichever tale you choose to believe, point is Jerry Blackwell did not join Vince's traveling circus. But of course I'm going to play "What if?" 

If Blackwell does join in May 1984 he'd come in as another monster heel working with Hogan (and later Andre) on the house show circuit. Maybe he gets a high profile SNME match with The Hulkster. He'd probably work the first two or three Wrestlemanias where he'd get a few big paydays before health issues slow him down. Given Vince's love of big boys I think he'd compliment Studd & Bundy rather than "take their spots." Blackwell would basically just give Hogan & Andre another big fella to feud with. I see lots of Blackwell/Bundy/Studd vs. Hogan/Andre/Partner tags. Blackwell wouldn't set the world on fire as a Wrestlemania main eventer (came in too early for that), but he would be a lot more well known and fondly remembered today. 
=================
We all had a good laugh a while back at the absurdity of Sheik Tugboat after Bruce Prichard told the story of this character being considered for Hogan's Wrestlemania VII opponent. I should have known better than to laugh it off. Non-Middle Eastern sheiks were all the rage in the 80s. AWA had Sheiks Blackwell & Patera. Mid South had Sheik Hercules. Even WWF had Ayatollah Blassie. Sheik Tugboat suddenly doesn't seem so silly anymore when you consider the context of the times. 1991 wasn't that far removed from the Sheikamania of the mid 80s...

According to WWE Results, the dude Hogan passes before going to the ring to defeat The Iron Sheik and kick off the Hulkamania era is Vince McMahon Sr., and if that's really him (it's hard to tell) that's so beautifully poetic.

For those that don't know, the day of this match there was a bit of a power struggle, Backlund successfully convincing Sr. that Hogan shouldn't be champion. Sr. even told Hogan something like, "Maybe six months down the line will be your turn." Hogan then replied (according to Hogan himself, so it should be taken with a grain of salt), “Vince Sr., all due respect, that’s not the deal I made with your son. But I just burnt a huge bridge in Minnesota. So, I’m going to go out. I’m going to put the Sheik over tonight. But then, I’m going right back, and I’m going to rebuild that bridge that I burnt down, and then I’m outta here.”

Vince Jr. then took charge, told Hogan to wait in a back room and said, "I'll be back in a few minutes." And this is where Vince convinced his dad that Hulkamania was the right move and the rest is history.

And there is Hogan, the future of sports entertainment, passing the past of professional wrestling, on his way to his coronation. 
---
Looking for more Vince Sr. stuff, I came across this video of Vince Jr. accepting his father's induction to the MSG Hall of Fame. It's the most human Vince has ever seemed to me, genuinely moved accepting on his father's behalf, who had recently passed away. 



"Vinny, the Garden will always be the Garden." 

I was listening to a Greg Gagne shoot the other day. Double G mentioned Rick Martel and Hulk Hogan being roommates when they were both working for AWA in the early 80s.

A few weeks ago I listened to an except from JR's podcast where Ross mentioned Martel being the regular traveling partner of a young Bob Holly when Holly first arrived in WWF.

Point of the story: The Model only hangs out with legends, brother.

Jan 15, 2022 3:44:19 GMT Baker said:

I was listening to a Greg Gagne shoot the other day. Double G mentioned Rick Martel and Hulk Hogan being roommates when they were both working for AWA in the early 80s.

A few weeks ago I listened to an except from JR's podcast where Ross mentioned Martel being the regular traveling partner of a young Bob Holly when Holly first arrived in WWF.

Point of the story: The Model only hangs out with legends, brother.

AND specifically legends with HH ring names.

Imagine how Hulkamania could have been altered if Barry Windam never left the WWF & Hulk Hogan couldn't use Real American as his theme song.

Jan 16, 2022 2:10:38 GMT Ed said:

Imagine how Hulkamania could have been altered if Barry Windam never left the WWF & Hulk Hogan couldn't use Real American as his theme song.

Let's do a fan fic split based on this premise (prem isss... pruh mise?). You do the main event stuff I'll write the midcard.

Let's GO.

Jan 16, 2022 2:15:01 GMT @ness said:

Jan 16, 2022 2:10:38 GMT Ed said:

Imagine how Hulkamania could have been altered if Barry Windam never left the WWF & Hulk Hogan couldn't use Real American as his theme song.

Let's do a fan fic split based on this premise (prem isss... pruh mise?). You do the main event stuff I'll write the midcard.

Let's GO.

Instead of Hogan saving Bob Backland upon his return, he beats the shit out of him. Setting up a title match where Hogan beats Backland clean as a sheet. Leading into a new heel era never seen before.

Hogan would continue to come out to Eye of the Tiger instead, somehow be even more over.

I like the idea that in every universe it always leads to Hulkamania. That destination is inevitable.

The fact that 2 Cold Scorpio is STILL going is absolutely insane. One of the most influential wrestlers of all time.

Jan 16, 2022 4:52:46 GMT KITN said:

The fact that 2 Cold Scorpio is STILL going is absolutely insane. One of the most influential wrestlers of all time.

1 of my favorite matches I've ever seen live is T.C.S. vs ACH. That dude hasn't lost a step.

He JUST had a match with Jonathan Gresham for the ROH World title. The man does not slow down.