If there's any justice in the wrestling world, every promotion would let Highspots or some streaming site have access to all of 2 Cold Scorpio's matches. Creating the ultimate boxset.

Since Test has been brought up, the time to make him has always felt, in real time and still today, like it was late 1999.

He was over with the Steph deal and looked like he was going to at least be a solid upper midcarder.

It does feel like he may have been robbed of a PPV main event against Trips at Armageddon 1999 after the wedding angle. I completely get why they went the Vince route for star power and having Steph's turn being against Vince, after what he'd done to her earlier in the year with being behind the Taker abduction.

But would it have been completely crazy for Test (who had no match scheduled that night) to have been the man who replaced Austin at Survivor Series 1999 and even won the WWF Title by pinning Triple H? That way you avoid Show/Bossman as a World Title feud. Then H sabotages the wedding two weeks later. Test vs. HHH becomes the WWF Title vs. Annulment main event of Armageddon. Vince could get involved in the match and you can still have Trips fuck him up to put him off TV for a while and have the Steph turn against both Vince and Test.

After Show's turn and alliance with Shane in early 2000, he would've been an ideal opponent for Test at Mania. Instead by then, his momentum had been completely killed and he was put in a tag team with Prince Albert.

You could even return to H/Test post-Mania if you wanted to break up having to do H/Rock too many times.

Then if you wanted to turn him heel, you could have revealed him as the driver that took out Austin to get himself into the title match.

Jan 16, 2022 23:30:11 GMT Strobe said:

Since Test has been brought up, the time to make him has always felt, in real time and still today, like it was late 1999.

He was over with the Steph deal and looked like he was going to at least be a solid upper midcarder.

It does feel like he may have been robbed of a PPV main event against Trips at Armageddon 1999 after the wedding angle. I completely get why they went the Vince route for star power and having Steph's turn being against Vince, after what he'd done to her earlier in the year with being behind the Taker abduction.

But would it have been completely crazy for Test (who had no match scheduled that night) to have been the man who replaced Austin at Survivor Series 1999 and even won the WWF Title by pinning Triple H? That way you avoid Show/Bossman as a World Title feud. Then H sabotages the wedding two weeks later. Test vs. HHH becomes the WWF Title vs. Annulment main event of Armageddon. Vince could get involved in the match and you can still have Trips fuck him up to put him off TV for a while and have the Steph turn against both Vince and Test.

After Show's turn and alliance with Shane in early 2000, he would've been an ideal opponent for Test at Mania. Instead by then, his momentum had been completely killed and he was put in a tag team with Prince Albert.

You could even return to H/Test post-Mania if you wanted to break up having to do H/Rock too many times.

Then if you wanted to turn him heel, you could have revealed him as the driver that took out Austin to get himself into the title match.

Feel like this could've really changed Jericho's whole career if Test was an extra body to contend with. He might've even been on page 2 of the no mercy character select if Test was a name.

Glad to see Test get some love. He was doing really good reactionwise in 2001 until they turned him heel to join the Alliance. His match with Eddie at X7 is underrated IMO.

When the 54-year old in-ring rookie wins the World Championship, nothing is too crazy.

Still, the writing was on the wall when Russo left. I don't think Test was ever in line for a WWF Championship push and I'm sure the wedding with Stephanie would have ended in similar fashion except it would be revealed on GTV that Test is having an affair with a Canadian fitness model. The whole thing would end in some gimmick match and we'd move onto some other crazy ADD Russo storyline next.

At least Test would have been featured, instead his little push really was a means to an end and they didn't really do anything to promote him outside of television appearances. In fact, after SummerSlam 1999, Test wouldn't work a match on PPV until the Royal Rumble.

You also got appearances like this which had to be a rib:



Give Kane an Emmy for that performance, still one of the highlights of the Attitude Era. But still get a load of Test coming out in his generic WWF shirt acting like a Canadian creeper.

I think it's clear that Test's mini-push was a means to an end so they could bump up the wedding and put more stock into HHH. Both HHH and Vince were carrying a lot of the creative burden at the time, so they bet on themselves and didn't really care how they got there or which careers had to be sacrificed. Meanwhile as many faults as Russo had, he would have taken better care of Test's character and had the character react in a more logical way.

I honestly don't remember much about his post-T&A push. I did like the match against Eddie but I can't remember anything as far as personality goes. From memory he was just a big dude who would tag with any star or wrestle Taker or Kane when they needed a match. Every now and then they'd throw him a bone like the immunity battle royal but even then he was just another guy in that McMahon Alliance Refugee stable. I just don't really remember him having his own dynamic and the one time they tried to feature him, it seemed like he was there to help get Stacey Keibler over before he disappeared and got a really good 'tan' before the WWE needed more bodies for their ECW revival project.

They def had a jezebel run when I first started watching lol.

Jan 16, 2022 2:15:01 GMT @ness said:

Jan 16, 2022 2:10:38 GMT Ed said:

Imagine how Hulkamania could have been altered if Barry Windam never left the WWF & Hulk Hogan couldn't use Real American as his theme song.

Let's do a fan fic split based on this premise (prem isss... pruh mise?). You do the main event stuff I'll write the midcard.

Let's GO.

*Ed as Vince Russo* bro, I'm totally open to talking shop. PM me.

They really should have just teamed up Haku & Barbarian post-Mania VI.

(1) They could have used another heel team given those they'd lost over the previous 6 months. There was a reason they felt obliged to turn Demolition heel.
(2) Get good use out of Haku (a pushed performer as king and tag champ over the previous 2 years) while he still had worth rather than just doing nothing with him.
(3) Allow them (in theory) to focus on pushing Warlord as a singles, rather than not really doing anything with both Warlord and Barbarian.
(4) Heenan had bought Barbarian's contract and it makes sense that he'd want to go back for the tag titles he just lost.

How the fuck was JBL a main event guy? Like, he was just the worst. You're telling me there wasn't ANYBODY else? Heel Booker T couldn't have had a better run as the top guy than JBL?!

Vince, all so he can live vicariously through him as a heel gop racist.

Lotta guys at the time were ready and it would play into that "go to SD! as top heel" vibe everyone was clamoring for online.

Having not watched that era, but hearing JBL was a good main event heel was mindblowing, because only passively hearing that he became one when it happened was one of the most LOL WWE moments of my life. It was one of the most ridiculous things I had ever heard. Worse than any son of a promoter. Just taking a random jabroni and handing him an undeserved main event run. But then JBL made it work? Still find this hard to believe.

It's like if Ted Dibiase was larger and worse.

This has been the debate since it happened. Remember in late 04 dudes at a sports bar were like WTF RVD and Booker are right there. And neither guy ever got a proper run either. You could argue RVD "earned" his demotion, but it was ridiculous. Other than the Eddy series and they were all stinkers in the ring.

Interesting take by PW. I always thought PW was really high on heel JBL. Maybe it's just Baker. Baker writes such wonderful epic poetry about his guys that when he endorses them I sometimes think the PW hivemind must agree.

My two cents: I thought JBL was very good, if not quite great, at his role. Great promo, got heat, entertaining hoss brawler. His racist stuff is dated from the eyes of 2022. Was it controversial at the time? I don't know.

Jan 22, 2022 22:08:51 GMT Emperor said:

Interesting take by PW. I always thought PW was really high on heel JBL. Maybe it's just Baker . Baker writes such wonderful epic poetry about his guys that when he endorses them I sometimes think the PW hivemind must agree.

My two cents: I thought JBL was very good, if not quite great, at his role. Great promo, got heat, entertaining hoss brawler. His racist stuff is dated from the eyes of 2022. Was it controversial at the time? I don't know.

IWC seemed to loathe him, but years after the fact a lot of people warmed up to his run. 2004 was a strange time in the US as even I bought into the whole FREEDOM FRIES FLIP FLOPPER nonsense of the election. So JBL's antics about immigrants were kinda fun to watch. I even thought it was wrong of him to get fired from Fox for the Nazi taunt. First cancelling of the millennium? A year later we saw Hassan fired for doing the terrorist angle... maybe it was here that the PG era and sponsorship ruined what made wrestling so good. The extreme shit that got headlines.

He ticked a lot of boxes but it rubbed people the wrong way how he went from tag jobber to main eventer overnight. Obviously the loss of Brock and Eddy's hesitation in being the top guy (especially since ratings were going down) meant they had to go with something. The whole "W" shtick with JBL who was also a big hoss and was a safe pick was an easy sell to Vince. I do wonder how soon they planned it or if like the booking Crazy Vince just went all in one day.

Heel JBL is one of the best heels since like 2000. Awesome stuff. Wasn’t actually afraid of heat like so many guys that are around now.

Ah, yes, the fantastic heat of having dogshit bad boring matches.

Jan 23, 2022 0:12:43 GMT KITN said:

Ah, yes, the fantastic heat of having dogshit bad boring matches.

As opposed to 20 minute jerkoff fests people stay silent for. Hard pass.

So I'm thinking about doing a wrestling project.

I got into wrestling in late 98 and watched all the PPVs from then until WMX8, with the exception of a handful of select matches I've really only seen those shows once live. Thinking about doing a rewatch of those PPVs and making a thread sort of a before and after, basically what I vaguely remember and then 20 years revisit thoughts. Course I'd have to take a break from watching stuff on my list and who knows if I got the stomach for 3 hr shows. Maybe just the marquee/highly pimped stuff (hi Malenko/Scotty!). We'll see. I might even call it System semantics.

@ness go for it. I'd follow along and chime in when applicable. Fwiw I wish we would do more group projects here in HoW. Watchalongs and whatnot.

"Buckle your seats, boys and girls. Business is about to pick up."- JBL 3/25/04

Bradshaw was a case of right time, right place. They were actually sowing the seeds for Bradshaw back at Suvivor Series 03 when they made him a part of Team Angle against Team Lesnar. They wouldn't push him right away but that was the first sign that they were serious about another singles run post-RAW 2002.

So to set the scene the WWE were in serious trouble post-Wrestlemania XX. In one fell swoop they lost Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Goldberg, The Big Show, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Nature Boy Ric Flair, Rikishi, Scott Steiner etc. either due to them finishing up with the company or because of serious injury. As a result, the company went through a rebuild and went back to the well where they created these 1980s type characters.

We started to see more characters like Eugene, Carlito Carribean Cool, Mordecai, Kenzo Suzuki, Umaga, Muhammed Hussein etc. Throwback characters because that's what they were comfortable with promoting. That's why guys like The Undertaker became The Deadman, Rico became Adrian Street & of course Bradshaw would become The Million Dollar Man.

It was a down time for the company and between who they had available, they had to figure out who the best opponent for Eddie would be. It was down to Booker T and JBL and JBL just made for a better antagonist to Eddie. The Undertaker who was the biggest star left on SmackDown needed an opponent as well and if Taker/Booker had wrestled in the past it had never been that high profile before and Booker could really help establish the Deadman persona.

I don't think JBL was intended to win the championship when he did. It was just a case of things really falling his way. The Eddie-JBL feud ended up a lot hotter than they thought, especially when Eddie's mother suffered a heart attack on a house show and gave Eddie that extra motivation heading into Judgement Day. That match turned out better than anyone could have imagined thanks to the gusher but also the chemistry the two had.

Now I don't think the plan was to put the title on JBL, I think originally Kurt-Eddie was the direction with Kurt going onto feud with The Big Show, Taker etc. and then you have a full circle moment where Angle puts Cena over at Wrestlemania XXI. However JBL had picked up steam and since they needed new 'stars' it was better to elevate JBL then rely on Kurt who was really struggling with his neck at the time. Eddie was really struggling with the pressure on top and he was more than happy to put JBL over who he had developed a genuine friendship with.

From there, JBL just really took to the material. Was he as good a worker as Eddie, Kurt or Benoit? No, but his promos were becoming even more entertaining and ridiculous and the establishment of the Cabinet made acts like Orlando Jordan and The Bashams more relevant. At a time where they still had to protect Kurt from himself because if you let him go, he'll try to give you Wrestlemania XXI every night if you let him, this seemed like the safer option.

So basically right time and place, the character lended itself better to the Eddie feud and the guy over-achieved. The point of that period was to lay down the carpet for Cena & Batista and make them stars and that worked in that moment.

Jan 22, 2022 21:09:45 GMT KITN said:

How the fuck was JBL a main event guy?

Brock bolted and TrIpLe H dIdN't WaNt To WoRk TuEsDaYs. WWE needed a new top heel. They took a chance on JBL. It worked out better than anyone could have hoped for. 

Most people eventually came around and learned to appreciate The Wrestling God, but that initial butthurt was something else. As a longtime Bradshaw fan you know I ate it all up...

The IWC 98-04: PuSh ThE mIdCaRdErS~!
WWE: Pushes a midcarder
IWC: 

Me: Buncha marks. 

So, yeah, JBL was great from day one. Actually, Bradshaw had been great since 98. Most people just didn't realize it.

Like, he was just the worst

Wrong. I could come up with a thousand wrestlers worse than JBL without breaking a sweat. Next project? Nah. I'd rather challenge myself...really rack my brain to see if I can somehow come up with 30 wrestlers I prefer watching to JBL. Now THAT would be a challenge!

You're telling me there wasn't ANYBODY else?

There's always SOMEBODY. But would they have been as good as JBL? Highly unlikely.

Heel Booker T couldn't have had a better run as the top guy than JBL?

King Booker had a fun run as Smackdown's top heel in 2006 where he became my favorite wrestler just as JBL had been before him. I've told the story before of how King Booker was largely responsible for keeping me watching WWE after the back to back gut punch of losing my longtime favorites Angle & JBL in rapid succession. So, yeah, King Booker was great. But JBL was even better. Only thing I disliked about JBL's run as the Smackdown Champ is it ended a year or three too early.

Jan 22, 2022 21:24:01 GMT Kilgore said:

Having not watched that era, but hearing JBL was a good main event heel was mindblowing, because only passively hearing that he became one when it happened was one of the most LOL WWE moments of my life. It was one of the most ridiculous things I had ever heard. 

I actually get this. Lord knows I had similar reactions upon discovering Sheamus, Jack Swagger, Mark Henry, and The Miz had been WWE/World Champions. 

Jan 22, 2022 21:31:30 GMT KITN said:

It's like if Ted Dibiase was larger and worse.

More like if Ted Dibiase wrestled like a Stan Hansen who followed the "rules" of wrestling and didn't gobble everyone up while having a lengthy Honkytonk Man style WWF Championship run. In other words, the ideal wrestler.

Jan 22, 2022 22:08:51 GMT Emperor said:

Interesting take by PW. I always thought PW was really high on heel JBL. Maybe it's just Baker . Baker writes such wonderful epic poetry about his guys that when he endorses them I sometimes think the PW hivemind must agree.

First off, thanks for the compliment. Secondly, you're not wrong. PW as a whole gets it. PW voted JBL their 27th favorite wrestler of all time when we did that countdown in the summer of 2020. It was my favorite result of the whole shebang. I felt vindicated as a JBL fan from day one/Bradshaw fan dating back to 1998. Even taking away my predictable high vote (#7) JBL STILL would have finished #38. For comparison sake that's directly ahead of Trish, Tanahashi, Dibiase, Kenny Olivier, Liger, Taz, Owens, Okada, Arn & Raven. That's some strong company. Not sure I have ever been more proud of PW.

Jan 22, 2022 23:34:18 GMT UT said:

Heel JBL is one of the best heels since like 2000. Awesome stuff. Wasn’t actually afraid of heat like so many guys that are around now.

UT gets it. Best heel since 00-01 HHH. Best promo in the business. All around Wrestling God. 

Jan 23, 2022 0:12:43 GMT KITN said:

Ah, yes, the fantastic heat of having dogshit bad boring matches.

"Dogshit bad boring matches" like the bloodbath with Eddie that I've seen people who have watched even more wrestling than me call the best match in WWE history? Or "Dogshit bad boring matches" like the bloodbath with Cena that pretty much everybody thought was Cena's best match to date? "Dogshit bad boring matches" like the Benoit cage match on Smackdown which aged like fine wine? The Eddie cage match? The Finlay brawl at WM 24? Etc. Etc.

Yeah, JBL wasn't a whiz bang golly gosh wow MOVEZ~! guy. He wasn't the type to go 50/50 trading head drops and dives with every ham and egger on the roster while pandering for "This Is Awesome" chants as nobody sells anything until the finish. If you're not into JBL's brand of wrestling, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I'm not one of these overbearing "you MUST think EXACTLY as I do!"  assholes.

But JBL was fucking brilliant at character wrestling if you even remotely paid attention. Like how in multi-mans he'd lay low for most of the match only to swoop in at the end for the cheap win. Or how he'd brutalize smaller low card guys (snuffing out the invisible cigar before powerbombing jabronies is an all time great taunt) and play the coward against your Taker/Batista/Show types like the bully his character was. Or put him in there with a similar guy like Hardcore Holly and he WOULD have a 50/50 slugfest since it MADE SENSE in this scenario. Then there's that all time great finish to the Big Show cage match which was once again perfect for JBL's character. Speaking of "perfect for JBL's character" what was better than those overblown celebrations he'd occasionally throw to mark this or that milestone? Answer: Nothing. God, I love JBL.

JBL understood his role and got what professional wrestling was all about. I'd have pushed him to the moon too. Hell, I'd still watch this shit if there were more wrestlers like JBL around today. 

I don't know if it's relevant to this discussion, but Bradshaw has also been my favorite Attitude Era wrestler to watch over the past 8 or 9 years. He really stands out as a breath of fresh air in the AE just because nobody else in the company was doing that hard hitting hoss style of wrestling at the time.

Jan 23, 2022 2:14:27 GMT UT said:

As opposed to 20 minute jerkoff fests people stay silent for. Hard pass.

UT continuing to be on fire. Sorry about your Packers, buddy. 

In closing, I will once again quote wrestling's last great heel...

"There are legends, there are Hall of Famers, and there are all-time greats, but there is one, and only ONE wrestling god!"- JBL: Great American Bash 2005

Obviously it didn't affect his WWE run too much as WWE was still clinging to the attitude era and ya know NUCLEAR HEATZ for a heel... but imagine if he did this on the apron in Germany. Might've been an unexpected face turn.

I actually liked him post-title win: The T-Rex, w/ Jillian as US title run (sorta in reverse of what people wanted) and somewhat enjoyed him on commentary talking about guys like Matt Hardy are a main event waiting to happen. I think I just hated the half and half in cowards/badass booking... but I suppose if he's a hoss eventually he's gonna get face heat and that don't work.

All in all I was so pissed at Armageddon 04 as it was obviously a filler match until Cena, but I almost bought into a potential Eddy win here. "Merry X-Mas from WWE ROFL". Yeah 04 I was going to the local sports bar to watch PPVs. Once they stopped and it was only football I did an about face and never went back.

Jan 23, 2022 4:44:59 GMT @ness said:

All in all I was so pissed at Armageddon 04 as it was obviously a filler match until Cena, but I almost bought into a potential Eddy win here. "Merry X-Mas from WWE ROFL". Yeah 04 I was going to the local sports bar to watch PPVs. Once they stopped and it was only football I did an about face and never went back.

I had to look up Armageddon 2004. What was the deal with Angle/Santa?? Never heard of/forgot about that one. Missed opportunity for sure. Would have been the perfect time to bring back Balls Mahoney as Xanta Klaus. I can't be the only one who thinks an Angle/Balls mini feud would have ruled, right?

Watching PPVs at sports bars was a good time. I should have went more than I did. Only saw the following shows at sports bars...

Wrestlemania 21 (Angle/Michaels was over like rover with the crowd split 50/50)
One Night Stand 2 (Forgettable show outside the main event which was as heated in the bar as it was in the arena)
Vengeance 2006 (Awful show)
Royal Rumble 2007 (Fun show)
Wrestlemania 23 (Another fun one)
Wrestlemania 30 (different sports bar and I rolled out when Brock ended The Streak)

I had as much fun watching the crowd as I did watching the matches. Was always interested in seeing who they rooted for (HBK/Taker/Angle/RVD) and booed (Cena/Cena/Cena/Cena).

Jan 23, 2022 5:12:05 GMT Baker said:

Jan 23, 2022 4:44:59 GMT @ness said:

All in all I was so pissed at Armageddon 04 as it was obviously a filler match until Cena, but I almost bought into a potential Eddy win here. "Merry X-Mas from WWE ROFL". Yeah 04 I was going to the local sports bar to watch PPVs. Once they stopped and it was only football I did an about face and never went back.

I had to look up Armageddon 2004. What was the deal with Angle/Santa?? Never heard of/forgot about that one. Missed opportunity for sure. Would have been the perfect time to bring back Balls Mahoney as Xanta Klaus. I can't be the only one who thinks an Angle/Balls mini feud would have ruled, right?

Watching PPVs at sports bars was a good time. I should have went more than I did. Only saw the following shows at sports bars...

Wrestlemania 21 (Angle/Michaels was over like rover with the crowd split 50/50)
One Night Stand 2 (Forgettable show outside the main event which was as heated in the bar as it was in the arena)
Vengeance 2006 (Awful show)
Royal Rumble 2007 (Fun show)
Wrestlemania 23 (Another fun one)
Wrestlemania 30 (different sports bar and I rolled out when Brock ended The Streak)

I had as much fun watching the crowd as I did watching the matches. Was always interested in seeing who they rooted for (HBK/Taker/Angle/RVD) and booed (Cena/Cena/Cena/Cena).

A guy from work was big into wrestling like me so we started going around the time Benoit was champ. I don't remember the situation, but you've had a few stories where you're defiantly walking out. That was him at the close of Summerslam 04. Also went to the bathroom during Eddy/Kurt so I missed the end. Honestly I can't really "enjoy" matches in that environment (the bar, not the pisser) just because I feel the need to pay attention to the workrate and that just isn't a thing I can do in a social situation.

On JBL it sucked that his reign ended in a hohum 10 minute basic bitch match. Though at least Cena finally dropped down with the FU unlike for months when he's just dump them off his shoulders for some reason (was he too hurt to take the bump?)... never saw the I Quit match the next month, but obviously the sub-main isn't gonna overshadow Tista's coronation so I get it. Either that or "Backlash" is just used to make up for a flop at Mania (i.e. the real Orton/Foley match, Rock/Austin and thought not a flop... a lot of people like Backlash over WM20 at least at the time it was current).

One thing that did surprise me going back to 2004/05 is how Booker T was portrayed. I had always remembered him as a mid-card wrestler fighting over the US Championship, but he worked a ton of main events/semi-mains and they always went out of their way to make him look strong. Sure he may have lost to The Undertaker, but he got a ton of offence in the match. He did miss out on Wrestlemania XXI which helped shape that perception, but on the next PPV they have him go over Kurt Angle who was coming off that Wrestlemania XXI match with Shawn.

I'm wracking my brain over what other direction they could have gone other than JBL.

You could go down the 🤯 route and have Benoit beat Lesnar for the title at Wrestlemania XX. Everything else remains the same, but with Kurt out, there's no obvious opponents for Benoit.

There's other options like ending the roster split entirely or even more crazy like having HHH work Tuesdays, but they were clearly never on the table.

Carlito was ahead of the game. He could got over big as the apple super spreader. Then you had that weird pre-rona Ambrose with the gas mask and he becomes a genius for it in a match (ignoring all the regular close contact for some reason) like Bret and the steel plate against Goldberg. Speaking of which... plate and jorts 10 yrs before Cena A+ look. Maybe they could wrestle in masks but Carlito wouldn't wear his in a auto heel mode like Daniels for refusing the handshake.

Actors wiki say best known for x. What is Low Ki's ceiling in mainstream? His run in TNA or Kaval?

JBL's WWE title reign was 10 months of my life I'll never get back. Thanks a lot, Vince.

Jan 23, 2022 23:43:05 GMT Ed said:

JBL's WWE title reign was 10 months of my life I'll never get back. Thanks a lot, Vince.

Who were you rooting for Ed?