Meanwhile Fox was pissed that Vince did not put NXT on Fox Sports, and even told affiliates they were getting it before Vince changed his mind. They also see the writing on the wall with the WWE Network getting wrapped into Peacock. Ratings are also under-preforming what they wanted for 200 mil a year. Moreso there is a belief that Khan will heavily shop Smackdown around next year and want a pay increase for it, despite the declining ratings, as they revamp Smackdown as the flagship WWE show. Simply put Fox is not pleased at all with their side of the deal as they feel that WWE did them dirty by going in with Peacock and under-preforming.

Source?

Dec 14, 2021 15:56:25 GMT c said:

Smackdown's debut on Fox had 3.8 million viewers and a 1.4 demo rating. They paid WWE 1 billion for five years. Since the debut ratings have progressively went down and the key demo keeps creeping lower.

deadline.com/2019/10/wwe-smackdown-fox-premiere-ratings-the-blacklist-blue-bloods-friday-1202752971/

We have AEW, which continues to be such an overperformer; this challenger brand of a wrestling asset has now become one of the biggest shows in cable, which is incredible for us. We obviously started a completely new night and new show on Friday nights with AEW Rampage.

deadline.com/2021/11/miracle-workers-renewed-kill-the-orange-faced-bear-tbs-tacoma-fd-brett-weitz-qa-animal-kingdom-claws-imptactical-jokers-1234866916/

That's not what you said. Your quoting a number from a debut episode which always does huge ratings because it's event television. You can say the same for Dynamite. Dynamite debuted at 1.409m (opposite NXT) and last week did 872k with no wrestling competition, 38% lower than its debut. I didn't mention that because it's disingenuous to use a single episode rating and say it created a level of expectancy. All shows on TV do this and it's because of how television is consumed.

Also, it isn't what you said. You said Fox made the deal when SmackDown did 4m, and what you said was just total crap.

On AEW, it could be that Warner is delighted. My point was that the deal extension was only recently signed to include Rampage and a top-up for Dynamite. So the expectation have completely reset. Now they're expecting the ratings they got when that deal was signed, and they're not getting them. This might illustrate my point better:

SmackDown's latest deal was signed May 18 2018. The ratings this week were down 4% from that figure the following week

AEW's extension was signed January 2020, where the shows averaged around 920k and were against direct wrestling competition. This was amended in May of 2021 when Dynamite averaged, again, around 920k. This month Dynamite is averaging 865k, down 6% in both cases.

Let me not lose track of my point. Warner could well be very happy with Dynamite, and Fox a little disappointed in SmackDown. We have no idea, we don't have access to C3 or C7 data, which are they only things that really matter, and we're not privy to profit/loss on these investments by these networks, nor are we privy to conversations regarding performance expectations.

But your speculation and spewing incorrect information as facts is maddening. You are the Fox News of PW.

The difference is that TBS the competition internally for AEW is American Dad, The Alienist and Miracle Worker, none of which draw what AEW will. On Fox Smackdown is competition with Hell's Kitchen, 911, Masterchef, The Masked Singer and other shows that routinely draw better ratings.

Simply put AEW does not have to do as good as Smackdown to make TBS happy. They pay AEW 45 million a year and get half the ratings of WWE at a quarter of the price.

Smackdown on the other hand for 200 million a year can easily be replaced with a reality TV competition show or crime drama and likely see Fox get better ratings at a half the cost.

And believe it was Meltzer who reported that Fox was not happy about the NXT stuff and ratings. Story routinely pops up every few months. Likely WWE will be aiming for 250 mil a year for Smackdown next time they negotiate and plan to explore moving Smackdown to a streaming service, particularly Apple or Amazon.

Once again, we don’t know what the C3 and C7 figures are, nor do we know the purchasing profile of the target audience. TNT just booted AEW off for NHL even though AEW tends to do better ratings. It isn’t as simple as dividing the ratings up and saying AEW get TNT more viewers per dollar. WWE is also a family friendly brand that can attract a wider range of audiences and this is appealing to advertisers. If you think there’s a world where AEW gets paid the same as WWE for the same ratings, you’re crazy.

And again, you might be right about one thing. Fox might drop WWE and Warner may be pleased with AEW but you don’t know, and there isn’t anything solid to back it up. It’s pure conjecture. Take the NBA for example, ESPN gets 82 games and gets around 1.4m a game, yet the NBA is looking for an $8b a year deal when the rights come back around. You can’t just compare the ratings of a 2 year old company with those of a 50 year old juggernaut and draw conclusions over who’s happy with what. NBA ratings have been in the toilet for years and they’re set to make more money than ever. This is the premium networks will pay for these sorts of brands.

They moved AEW to TBS as that is a better profile for them. Funny you claim I am just making shit, but the whole AEW got booted for Hockey does not fly with what the execs said.  They moved it as it is a better fit with drama than sports.

DEADLINE: Transitioning to TBS, you are doing it with AEW, which will be switching from TNT to TBS as NHL hockey joins NBA basketball on TNT. What do you think wrestling’s move to TBS would mean for that network?

We obviously make these decisions with a lot of data and gut behind them. The brand of TBS is we’re always here for a good time. That is exactly what AEW is and AEW Dynamite, and so, when we look at the concentric circles of TBS and TNT, our TBS viewer is a heavy drama viewer, believe it or not. So, we know that those fans will migrate over, and we also believe that wrestling fans find the content wherever it is, and we also think, more wrestling’s better for everybody, honestly.

What do you want him to say publicly? Of course he’s going to defend the property. And for the millionth time, I accept they may be happy with AEW at the moment. My issue is your ham-fisted comparisons and nonsensical presumptions about what will happen in the future. And you do make shit up, you did it with the SmackDown numbers in this thread, you do it all the time.

Ok, long story short.

RAW and Smackdown are destroying Dynamite and Rampage. NXT 2.0 - the apparent 'worst show ever' - is also beating Rampage.

WWE may suck. But more people are watching it than AEW. Including in the demo.

And as one reporter wrote " WWE’s financial results are so damn good they are increasing profit projections " with a revenue of $255.8 million, an increase of 15% or $34.2 million in Q3.

The sky ain't falling for WWE.

Oh, and isn't AEW still in the red because they let Kenny play video game developer?

Dave Meltzer’s Twitter account has made several accurate, measured comments contextualising WWE ratings tonight. I’m worried he’s been kidnapped.

Were people arguing that Smackdown is not a draw with Meltzer or AEW was winning in ratings? So confused. My issue with Smackdown is it is not getting the ratings for the cost. To deny it is a show that most networks would want with a floor of 2 million though is crazy. I am just not sure those ratings are worth over 200 million a year.

As for AEW, yeah, those ratings are not going up. Great to have more wrestling, but likely seeing damn near the cap for AEW on Turner networks. Not sure how much more they can do if Punk and DB together did not move the dial. Only thing I can think of to try that they have not is bring out the Fiend and bring in Braun, both short term, to see if it is REALLY over the top shit people want.

And frankly, AEW would be smart now to offer short term contracts of 3 months to try people out before committing. I mean once WWE fired them, where else are they gonna go that AEW cannot just ask to use them anyway?

Word is another handful of debuts in coming week though.  Brisceos are likely, other RoH guys are likely, Braun is likely, and possibly Ember Moon, Fiend and others from that batch.

Frankly, Jonathan Gresham should be the priority.  He has a ton of untapped potential and is most likely the biggest bang for their buck they can get.

Yeah, those names will put asses in the armchairs...

If Punk and Danielson couldn't move the dial, Strowman and The Briscoes won't attract new fans. ROH was dead in the water.

It's interesting how irrelevant the topic of ratings become when AEW is losing. Once upon a time they were so confident #demogod

Not sure where this should go but man Anthony Ogogo, the ex boxer turned wrestler that is in QT Marshall's faction absolutely destroyed Ring of Honor, Jonathan Gresham, Jordynne Grace, Hornswoggle and AEW's own Brooke Havoc  on Twitter. Dude is a mega heel, by far the most promising thing of that faction and again Cody should not have beaten him.

:laughy: 

Ogogo is a fucking beast. He was dirty to Hornswoggle with the small shaming though admittedly, Tony Khan probably has to probably tell him to pipe down.

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

CM Punk in typical Punk fashion dissed him in a quote tweet with a yawn :lol: 

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

We have heels. But noone can commit to be truly an evil bustard anymore.

The last time anyone said anything naughty, they where suspended and had to take sensitivity training. Villains do bad shit, that's what they do. But they can't.

So they go for obnoxiousness. Ie; The Bucks. The Miz, MJF....

On that. If MJF calling Punk, Punky Brewster is the height of heelism in 2021.. God help us all.

Dec 15, 2021 3:05:14 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

We have heels. But noone can commit to be truly an evil bustard anymore.

The last time anyone said anything naughty, they where suspended and had to take sensitivity training. Villains do bad shit, that's what they do. But they can't.

So they go for obnoxiousness. Ie; The Bucks. The Miz, MJF....

On that. If MJF calling Punk, Punky Brewster is the height of heelism in 2021.. God help us all.

The last truly heelish, borderline evil move was when Baron Corbin gave Becky Lynch an End of Days last year or so in the Rollins/Becky vs Lacey Evans/Corbin intergender match.

It'll probably take something of that nature or an assault on a kid(Which will never happen) to truly get the fans hating on them. 

Velveteen Dream if he lasted long enough for the live crowds to be back would have been nuclear though.

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

Bubba has gone full "old man yelling at cloud." He doesn't understand the nuance of guys like MJF and Max Caster and Roman Reigns and Becky Lynch and instead thinks that he was the ultimate heel when he called someone a f****t in ECW and got shit thrown at him.

...

I'm enjoying NATH45's weekly updates of Rampage ratings. It's like nobody saw it coming but him. Very good stuff.

Dec 15, 2021 2:56:33 GMT Blindy said:

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

CM Punk in typical Punk fashion dissed him in a quote tweet with a yawn  

Which is hilarious given Punk used to stand in front of fans and insult them in a personalized fashion.  

Dec 15, 2021 3:49:52 GMT RT said:

Dec 15, 2021 2:54:01 GMT c said:

Bubba tweeted today that the wrestling world needs heels that people actually hate again. Had quite a divisive split, which is odd, given AEW has MJF, who really gets under people's skin in most places.

Bubba has gone full "old man yelling at cloud." He doesn't understand the nuance of guys like MJF and Max Caster and Roman Reigns and Becky Lynch and instead thinks that he was the ultimate heel when he called someone a f****t in ECW and got shit thrown at him.

...

I'm enjoying NATH45 's weekly updates of Rampage ratings. It's like nobody saw it coming but him. Very good stuff.

Also Dan Lambert is exactly what Bubba wants.  And frankly, MJF is better than any of the modern "old school" heels.  MJF does not break keyfabe either, so it is very hard to really back the guy even if you are a fan, as he will still act like you are beneath him at signings are shit.  

Also since it was mentioned, the reason AEW is deep in the red is not that they wanted to make a game. Tony dropped 10 million on the game and they will likely make it back as once the engine is done, yearly releases will be far cheaper to make. Khan is paying more for Mox, Jericho, Cody and Omega alone.

I am not even sure AEW is in the red.  The shows cost 500k a week to produce, and they have 100 guys with an average salary of 300k.  so really fast that is 55 million in costs.  TV deal offsets most of that, but they do 500k to 1 million between gate and mech per show.  They are likely conformably in the green.  Nowhere near as profitable as WWE is, moreso since they went lean, but they also are not likely in the WCW shovel money into the fire pit situation.  Khan at the end of the day being a mark, likely would consider a small profit to be a success if he can do whatever he wants.  He def is not raking in a billion a year like WWE, but think he will be fine just coming out in the green.

Imagine winning the World title and not wrestling for over a month...

So Anthony Ogogo still exists. Why isn't he wrestling? Is he hurt?

This is such a weird thread. It started with us laughing at the talking heads from AEW, NXT, and WWE shit talking about ratings; and we've fallen so far.

Nath consistently comparing apples to oranges - and acting like he's presenting reasonable metrics. Is he being serious, is he doing a gimmick. I don't know why I keep clicking on this thread.

WWE mark Big Pete popping in on the regular with the random echoes of nath's nonsense.

C turning this into a USA politics style stream of conciousness, and other people expecting him to provide a source other than 'the assistant to the state senator from Arkansas said so'

Dec 15, 2021 13:04:23 GMT nazzer said:

This is such a weird thread. It started with us laughing at the talking heads from AEW, NXT, and WWE shit talking about ratings; and we've fallen so far.

Nath consistently comparing apples to oranges - and acting like he's presenting reasonable metrics. Is he being serious, is he doing a gimmick. I don't know why I keep clicking on this thread.

WWE mark Big Pete popping in on the regular with the random echoes of nath's nonsense.

C turning this into a USA politics style stream of conciousness, and other people expecting him to provide a source other than 'the assistant to the state senator from Arkansas said so'

I think you've got the wrong guy, homey.

Andrew Zarian says WWE are going to make a major play for MJF when his contract is up in 2 years time. He’s going to be on insane money at his age, whether he leaves AEW or stays.

Dec 15, 2021 13:04:23 GMT nazzer said:

This is such a weird thread. It started with us laughing at the talking heads from AEW, NXT, and WWE shit talking about ratings; and we've fallen so far.

Nath consistently comparing apples to oranges - and acting like he's presenting reasonable metrics. Is he being serious, is he doing a gimmick. I don't know why I keep clicking on this thread.

WWE mark Big Pete popping in on the regular with the random echoes of nath's nonsense.

C turning this into a USA politics style stream of conciousness, and other people expecting him to provide a source other than 'the assistant to the state senator from Arkansas said so'

I'm just presenting the reported facts. That's all.

And those reported facts aren't in AEW's favour.

It just doesn't fit the narrative that " AEWz Rulz "

Dec 15, 2021 18:26:43 GMT Todd said:

Andrew Zarian says WWE are going to make a major play for MJF when his contract is up in 2 years time. He’s going to be on insane money at his age, whether he leaves AEW or stays.

And when he skips NXT, he can respond with "AEW was my developmental"

MJF is one of the few AEW wrestlers I could see fitting perfectly in WWE. Would be a big name for AEW to lose though, he's going to be a top heel for years to come.

Maybe he is pulling an Orton. Zero intention of leaving, but always wants a raise come renewal time. Get you a SLICE of that billionaire man.

Dec 15, 2021 23:12:59 GMT @ness said:

Maybe he is pulling an Orton. Zero intention of leaving, but always wants a raise come renewal time. Get you a SLICE of that billionaire man.

That's the ultimate heel move. He's better than us & he knows it

What trash is this, an hour of AEW and only one fucking match? Come on...