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Post by Strobe on Jan 4, 2018 20:21:43 GMT
Yeah, Christmas and New Year fucked me up for this. I'll get a list in for tomorrow.
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Post by Strobe on Jan 6, 2018 7:19:21 GMT
Got a list in. Just threw it together really. I'll unwell so couldn't find the will power to concentrate on it too long. It isn't objective. It isn't subjective. Some people were thrown into their spot based on kayfabe achievements, others due to how big of a star I feel they were, some just due to staying over no matter what. It is a mess I'm sure. With bias all over the place. But it's in.
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Post by Big Pete on Jan 7, 2018 0:38:11 GMT
Ring the bell, Bake!
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Post by Baker on Jan 8, 2018 1:55:55 GMT
Got another ballot in. Still one short of my 8 voter goal though. Plus I'm likely to be busy the next few days so the final deadline will be Wednesday January 10th at 8 a.m. EST
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Post by Baker on Jan 10, 2018 17:20:38 GMT
Didn't consider him but I'm glad Terry Funk got a vote. Terry Funk should always get votes for stuff. His run was short but memorable. Loved the Hardcore Legends. They made the New Age Outlaws. Also had a great match with Foley on Raw.
Didn't consider Andre. Always think of him as an 80s guy. Forgot the Colossal Connection's title run came in 1990. In fact, I had forgotten about the Colossal Connection, period :lol:
Glad Horowitz got a vote as well. As the company's premiere jobber during the early-mid 90s he was on tv as much as anybody. Memorably beat Skip to begin the GOAT underdog push. Kid had jobbed for mere weeks. Whipwreck for only a few months. Mysterio won like 70% of his matches. Meanwhile, Barry had jobbed for YEARS. It made his big win all the more satisfying. Was over enough to have been a bigger deal in late 95-96 imo.
Didn't consider Ax. He's another I see as more of an 80s guy. I'd rate both Smash & Crush well above him for a 90s list.
Smash is the first name to come up that I considered. Demolition was still going strong in 1990. Then he reinvented himself for a nice little run as the Repo Man. Darsow was a good role player who always threw himself 100% into whatever role he was given. Wrestling needs guys like that.
Didn't consider Mark Henry. His early 80s-style babyface run was a flop. I guess "Sexual Chocolate" was kinda sorta memorable....for all the wrong reasons.
Giant Gonzalez had height but little else. One of the worst in-ring competitors I've ever seen and he didn't even stick around for very long.
Skip is another I didn't even consider. I guess the idea for him was to become the latest "annoying" midcard heel following in the footsteps of greats like Mountie, IRS & The Model. But I found Skip to be the "bad" kind of annoying and he didn't even have all that long of a run.
Considered Crush. He played a variety of different roles in several different eras. Was never a fan of him at any point in time but he managed have a pretty successful 90s WWF career as he stuck around on and off for 7 years
Ludvig Borga was a late cut from my list so I'm thrilled he got a vote. The GOAT foreign heel imo. Thought he was such a badass. Ended Tatanka's long undefeated streak. Decimated Jannetty & jobbers. I was really into his feud with Luger. Would be ridiculously high on a 90s WWF Favorites list.
Edge was one of the first cuts from my "considered" list. He did win the IC Title for a day or two. The Brood were a fairly popular/memorable faction. And his stock was rising as the 90s came to a close due to the memorable No Mercy Ladder Match w/ Christian vs. Hardys.
Texas Tornado is another early cut from my "considered" list strictly due to winning the IC Title back when that still mattered.
Didn't consider Pillman. His WWF in ring career lasted like 4 months as the 4th guy in a 5 man stable when he was physically shot. More of a "what could have been" than somebody who would make my Top 100....or maybe even 200.
Rude & Tito are in the same boat as 80s guys who really did very little in 90s WWF. Rude had a pretty good 1990 but was gone before the year came to a close while Tito spent the early 90s gradually drifting down the card as he settled into a jobber to the stars role.
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Post by Strobe on Jan 10, 2018 21:42:15 GMT
Andre was my #50. It felt fitting to put him there. His in-ring WWF career ended after only 3 months of the 90s, but he was a tag champion during a time when it mattered and had his big face turn and farewell in the cart at Mania VI. That moment alone means more than guys who were around for years of the 90s. Ax as my #49 was pretty much assured when I decided to put Andre in my last spot and was thinking about that Demo/CC match. Demolition were still mega over in early 1990 and them winning their third tag titles was a big deal at the time. Probably only LOD and the NAO could claim to have been a more over 90s team than Demolition still were for that brief period before the heel turn and addition of Crush due to Ax's health issues ultimately led to them petering out. Smash had to be #48 then, as despite being the inferior worker, he has more longevity on Ax with the Repo Man run, which at least had two memorable moments (attempting to repossess the Million $ Title led to DiBiase regaining it from Virgil; hanging Davey Boy with his tow rope). Tornado was my #43. His run became very forgettable towards the end, but due to Beefcake's near-fatal injury, he got an IC Title run when it was still a pretty big deal and was part of easily the best Survivor Series team of the 90s.
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Post by PB on Jan 10, 2018 22:40:07 GMT
I went back and forth a lot on Pillman but ended up voting for him. Yes his run was incredibly short, but when I think of the 90s he pops into my head straight away. He doesn't have longevity but he does have historical importance in my opinion and so deserves to be on the tail-end of this list. He was only number 50 on my list though - I just couldn't not include him.
Considered Edge and Texas Tornado were both on my long list but got cut.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 10, 2018 23:20:06 GMT
None from my list so far, but very glad to see some of these guys get a shout. Of this lot, Crush, Smash/Repo, and Rude were really the only ones to hang through the first round of cuts. Some of the rest I didn't even consider to be honest.
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Post by Shootist on Jan 11, 2018 0:32:08 GMT
Terry Funk had a pretty short run before bolting to WCW. I really emphasized length of tenure during the 90's which hurt a lot of the names listed so far. He did add another layer to his career with the Chainsaw Charlie character and got to revive his partnership with Mick Foley which appealed to loyalists who followed them in ECW. Again Andre The Giant only lasted a year and a half total in the WWF but still had some highlights by finally legitimately getting a belt and having LOD save him from Earthquake. I only saw glimpses of Barry Horowitz's renaissance in 1995 WWF but thought it was one of the more clever things they did during the year. He was gone though before the WWF's renaissance which hurt his standing in my eyes. Good to see him make it. Ax's shortened tag run (despite it being hugely over) didn't get a sniff of my list. Credit to Barry Darsow for having multiple gimmicks but again after Demolition's success in the first 8 months of the 90's really nothing of huge consequence came from his run. I was the lone vote for Mark Henry. He came in to much fanfare due to being a past Olympian before it became really en vogue and had a massively over run as Sexual Chocolate. Plus he was part of the inspiration for the most hilarious segment of DX's career. Giant Gonzalez was definitely memorable but mostly for all the wrong reasons. Skip I missed out on but can be thanked for introducing Sunny to the masses. I had Crush at 49. He lasted off and on for the entire decade and had many hats from Demolition, to cheesy babyface, to pseudo foreign invader, to gang member and was solid in all those roles. Borga had a great 1993 but was gone shortly into the following year. I'm with Baker , he may not be the greatest foreign heel but he's on the short list of most underrated. I threw Edge a bone with the 50 spot. He had big hype coming in with all those vignettes, had a "cult" following with The Brood and laid his foundation by starting to feud with the Hardys as the decade closed. Kerry Von Erich had a great 1990 but was up and down the last two years of his run. Had a fun clash with Flair during the '92 Rumble to renew hostilities. Pillman was pretty much done in ring wise when he came to the fed but still provided one of the early sparks to the Attiude Era pulling a gun on Austin and getting his expletives in even before Austin uttered his 3:16 rant at KOTR '96. Rude got some more publicized shots at the World Title and had an entertaining feud with Bossman. Not lasting even a year into the 90's as a competitor hurt him. Tito's El Matador run was cringe- worthy after a pretty generic 1990/early '91.
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Post by Baker on Jan 12, 2018 4:22:27 GMT
#47 Jim Neidhart- Anvil is unbelievably the only wrestler from my list not to crack the Top 50. He started the decade strong by having a long tag title run w/ longtime partner Bret. Spent the rest of the decade occasionally returning to score some longevity points by glomming off his better, more popular relatives. For all the flack XPac got for only being a star because he was friends with the cool kids, in reality Anvil was the ultimate XPac....or another Beefcake, if you prefer. Teamed with Owen in the New Foundation. Then turned on Bret to align with Owen again in a cool 1994 angle. Returned once again as the Vincent of the Hart Foundation in 1997. And then there was Who. I'd rather not go through the trouble of explaining that one though. Just be thankful if you don't know. *Almost all the other names in this batch would have been in the 50s or 60s on my list which means they're rated about right. Think this is the most I've ever been in agreement with a PW countdown. Good job, folks. Model- Initially had him on my list. And pretty high, too! Somewhere around #38. But Shootist talked me out of it. He kept plummeting to finish at #51. Still glad he got a vote though. Had a memorable feud with Jake culminating in the fun sports entertainment-tastic Blindfold Match at WM 7. Returned from a hiatus to put over burgeoning star Razor Ramon in late 93. Would definitely have a spot on my 90s WWF Favorites List. Shane McMahon- Didn't consider. The late 90s already had enough "non-wrestlers" wrestling. I'd rank Shane 4th in star power/importance from that group. Did have that miracle match with Test though. He also played his role well. And he gets bonus points for introducing the world to the greatness of the Mean Street Posse. Al Snow/Leif Cassidy- A personal favorite. Loved the New Rockers. Leif was the star of that team with the cool moves and an amusing Stevie Richardsesque doofus character. Also liked Al Snow w/ Head when he first returned. Within a few months I finally realized the utter stupidity of that gimmick. Plus the cool moves were gone in favor of a rather lousy brawling style. Didn't care for him after that, though I did get a kick out of his match with Hardcore Holly where they fought in the Mississippi River, and he finally achieved some championship success in the Hardcore division. And now I feel obligated to mention the Flair/Steamboat of Youtube comments...."Al Snow was the Marty Jannetty of a tag team that included Marty Jannetty"- the sickest of burns. Marc Mero- Got a big initial push upon his arrival from WCW culminating in an IC Title win. Was also part of a cool angle w/ HHH & Mr. Perfect. Introduced Sable to the world. Unfortunately (or not) that killed his career as she far surpassed him in popularity. Had some cool moves. First guy I ever saw do the Shooting Star Press. Thought the TKO was also really cool. The Merosault was cool (albeit dumb) as well. Bull Nakano- I admit to sleeping on Bull, and the entire Alundra Blayze-era women's division, at the time. Just didn't care. Great look though. And that "flying Sharpshooter" move of hers was cool as hell. D'Lo- A personal favorite. Spent a long time as the unnamed jobber of the Nation before getting a push out of nowhere. Seriously, D'Lo randomly beating HHH for the European Title is one of the more overlooked upsets in wrestling history. Took the ball and ran with it. The chest protector gimmick was a hoot. The "Champion of Europe" shtick was even better. Plus he had a bunch of cool moves- GOAT frog splash, beautiful chubby guy moonsault, and various "bombs." Also had a bit of charisma. One of my favorite wrestlers in '98. Genuinely thought he was going to follow in Rock's footsteps as the next big breakout star for a while there. Why he even copycatted his former Nation running buddy with that goofy "People's Leg Drop" he would do! He eventually fizzled out. Didn't have the greatest look and crippling Droz (perhaps justifiably) killed his WWF career for good. Fatu & Holly were solid utility players who filled a variety of roles over the years. Fatu had a pretty good run with the Headshrinkers. Then bombed as "Makin' A Difference" and the instantly forgettable Sultan. Finally caught fire as the decade came to a close as Rikishi- the greatest of all the many WWF dancing fat guy gimmicks. This is also where I first took note of his actual in ring ability. The 'Kish had some cool moves. Holly spent most of the 90s as the definitive WWF jobber to the stars....or as we called them back in the day "jobbers with music." He was basically WWF's Armstrong, Zenk, Bagwell type. Like Fatu, he unexpectedly caught fire in '99 as a super heavyweight Hardcore "Big Shot." '99 Holly was a hoot. Easily the best period of his career. Holly also had the sweetest dropkick of the era and won a few titles. Duggan was a staple of WWF television in the early 90s (and late 80s). Feuded with just about every evil foreigner, traitor, and rich/aristocratic character who came through the company in those days. Also filled the role as "guy heels went through before they got to Hogan." Was always incredibly popular. Although, from a personal standpoint, he's easily one of my least favorite wrestlers of all time. He was so bad in the ring that I thought he sucked at wrestling even when I didn't give a hoot about good matches or workrate. His wrestling was just so utterly BORING. Plus this doofus actually made me less patriotic. It's like all these other countries get to be represented by cool people and we Americans are stuck with this moron?!?! *Gorilla Monsoon mode activated* Give me a break! *Getting sleepy. I'll cover the rest tomorrow
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 12, 2018 19:14:45 GMT
Let's drop some quick comments on some of my selections... 48.) Taka Michinoku: I threw my man Taka a lower Top 50 spot just to make sure he got some love and didn't get lost in the shuffle. He was essentially the guy WWF picked to try building their LHW division around to compete against WCW's *stacked* CW division. He got a PPV showcase match in 1997 (on arguably 1997 WWF's best PPV) then reappeared again toward the end of the year to become the first-ever (sorta-but-not-really) LHW champion. Can't remember if he got a PPV title defense in before 'Mania XIV, but regardless... His title defense at 'Mania XIV was a pretty historic deal in hindsight. It's the first time the LHW title was ever defended at a 'Mania, and ended up being the only time. Taka then segued into his entertaining Kaientai angles for the rest of the decade. If only the voiceover gimmick had debuted in '99, Taka might've ranked even higher. As it stands, he was an entertaining worker who also has a sorta historic spot in WWF history. I'm glad someone else gave Taka some love! 43.) Mabel/Viscera: I should've looked up Nelson's last name so could've given him the vote for multiple gimmicks like how I gave Mick Foley, Glenn Jacobs, and Charles Wright the votes for all of their various characters collectively. Anyway... Mabel had a longevity and a pretty solid push on his side. Plus, in the early goinga, I thought he could move pretty good for such a big guy. I feel like his in-ring weaknesses need to be discounted a bit too for how fucking young he was. Wasn't he like 23 when he got his big push!? There's no way you can't be mostly green at 23. That all in mind, Mabel has a lot of achievements working for him: the 1995 KOTR crown, 1x tag title reign (unless he had one with Mideon too that I forgot about?), a 'Mania appearance in a tag title match, and 3 SummerSlam appearances... including a main event world title shot. Then Mabel comes back for a King of Kings of the Ring triple threat match in 1998, then comes back again in 1999 and evolves into Viscera to become part of the Corporate Ministry of Darkness. All in all, really a respectable run throughout the decade for the guy. Plus, the Big Package is in my personal Top 10 most terrifying, most believable finishers. 38.) Shane McMahon: For as much as I hate the idea of Shane as a wrestler, the "objective" criteria I was trying to use had him qualify for a Top 50 spot on my list. And 1999 was the year where the idea of him wrestling was probably least offensive. Between the novelty of it, the era, and his opponents and their storylines... It was all acceptable. Shane benefited from the bonus multiplier effect too, which I gave to people who seemed to exceed expectations and/or somehow transcend their position. Shane had no business having such good matches with X-Pac at 'Mania XV and Test at SummetSlam. But he did, holding his own to deliver some thoroughly entertaining work. It would earn him the 1999 PWI Rookie of the Year award, in fact. And from a kayfabe standpoint, him winning the European Championship is an extra impressive accolade (i.e., vs. someone like HHH winning it). 37.) Bull Nakano: Epic look, epic in-ring dominance, and fantastic rivalry with Alundra Blayze. Decent length title reign, and was booked pretty seriously. Appeared at SummerSlam in a competitive title match, which is way more than you can say about pretty much every other woman who wrestled in 1990s WWF. The only real exceptions appear in higher spots on my list. 36.) D'Lo Brown: Baker covered it pretty perfectly, as always. Let me just add or expound upon his kayfabe accolades. I'm not sure I ever had D'Lo pegged as another Rock-like breakout star. I think his chubbiness held him back from being held in that regard in my eyes. Honestly, I would've bought his midcard peers X-Pac and Val Venis more readily as breakout stars. That said, to me and by resume, D'Lo was like the Attitude Era's Razor Ramon. Bringing some pride and legitimacy to/back to the midcard singles titles. After upsetting HHH for his first European Championship, D'Lo would have pretty entertaining rivalries with Pac, Val, and Double J en route to racking up four Euro reign. I think he has the most Euro reigns in the 90s. Add to that not only his IC title reign, but he was also our first-ever "Eurocontinental" champion. You betta recognize!
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Post by Baker on Jan 12, 2018 19:40:38 GMT
Hakushi- Is fondly remembered for his relatively brief run lasting just over a year in the mid 90s. Had a cool look and a unique style as an early WWF high flying workrate guy. Had good matches with Bret & Kid. In a rarity for the time, I liked him more as a face. I was only a moderate fan of heel Hakushi but took to him much more as a good guy. Loved his odd couple team with Horowitz. They should have been bigger imo.
Doink- Was an awesome heel played by Matt Borne during his first year. Started out doing cruel pranks on a variety of good guys. I was really into the Crush feud and Double Doink stuff. Not to mention the sweet Perfect matches/mini-feud to qualify for KOTR 93. Was also part of the great Bret/Lawler segment at Summerslam. Unfortunately Matt Borne got fired (this is a guy who got fired from ECW for excessive drug use! So you can only imagine how bad he must have been) and they turned the character face, killing everything that made him interesting in the first place. Now he was basically a Gobbledygookeresque goober, only he was around every single week. Yet for better or worse, he is one the characters most synonymous with WWF's mid-90s period.
Sable- If I had to do it over again I'd probably put Sable in the #50 spot because she was at least 10 times more over than the woman I ended ranking 50th. My logic was "Well, Sable will get her due on my Supplemental ballot." That's not to say she was good. She was actually terrible at wrestling (although the Sable Bomb was impressive the first few times you saw it) but over is over, and Sable was one of the most popular people in the company during their hottest period of the decade.
Chris Jericho- Had a memorable debut. Then he was treading water for a few months, not doing all that much. Did end the decade as IC Champ in a feud with Chyna though, because apparently Jarrett=Jericho in 1999 WWF Land (that's always been my theory anyway).
Taka- Perhaps the ultimate case of wrong place, wrong time in 90s WWF (though Shamrock and a few others also have arguments here). Taka would have been much better off had he went to WCW or come around today where he'd be huge in NXT. Spent a year as the Ace of the Light Heavyweight division, which basically consisted of Taka + The Guy He Was Feuding With. Briefly aligned with Bradshaw to feud with Kaientiai before turning heel and leading said stable. He just never got over until the lower card comedic "Indeed" stuff with Funaki, and that wasn't until 2000 or 2001. 90s WWF Taka highlights include a match with Great Sasuke on the GOAT PPV, introducing the world to the greatness of Christopher Daniels with a killer little match on Shotgun, and, above all else, attempting to choppy choppy Val's pee pee. Taka is another one I considered for the #50 spot before going in a different direction.
Mabel- Men On A Mission were a popular babyface tag team (at least in these parts). Won KOTR out of nowhere shortly after turning heel. Main evented a Summerslam and had a big feud with Taker. Left the company a mere 7 months after his big KOTR win. Came back to score some longevity points a few years later, even if he was just 500 pound jobber to the stars taking up space in the Corporate Ministry. His fat guy spinkick ruled while his belly to belly was downright Yokozuna-esque. And then there's The Big Package~! #51 looks about right for Mabel.
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Post by Strobe on Jan 12, 2018 23:31:17 GMT
Duggan was my #40 (high vote), which might feel too high, but towards the bottom of my list the justifications became pretty shaky and random from place to place. It was mainly in terms of memorability and star power for Hacksaw. That guy is, was and forever will be over. Whenever they bring him out to this day, the crowd also gives a massive HHHHOOOOOOOOOO!!! He never needed a belt or kayfabe achievements for that. He didn't really have any notable feuds in the 90s, but like Baker said, he was kind of the guy that worked with the guys Hogan was working with when Hogan wasn't around. In-ring, he was pretty terrible in the WWF (when he was excellent in everything I've seen from Mid-South), except for the brief motivated spell in 1993. Sable was my #32 (high vote). She was Women's Champion, but this placement was almost entirely because of just how over she was. People not watching at the time don't realise quite how big of a deal she was. I placed another female a single spot higher because of her winning a non-female exclusive title, entering the Rumble as a female and being really over in her own right. I probably should have found a spot for D'Lo, but I tended to feel like kayfabe achievements below the World Title mean less later in the decade with how often titles switched (even with that, Chyna winning the IC is of enough note to mean a lot). The European Title really meant fuck all after Bulldog dropped it to HBK who then gave it to HHH and D'Lo may have been Eurocontinental Champ, but it was for like a month and didn't really mean anything (Angle may have been going for heat when he said D'Lo didn't count as Eurocontinental Champ, but there was a bit of a point there). Listing Ax and Smash but not Anvil, who had a good face tag title run with Bret (winning the belts from Demo), before a collection of other runs (including being involved in the main event scene with Bret and Owen in 1994 and with the Hart Foundation in 1997), might seem pretty iffy. But I guess I don't see Anvil as ever being as over as both Ax and Smash were in early 1990. They were always trying to break Bret away from him and he was always the least important guy in any deal that he was involved with. Wasn't he like 23 when he got his big push!? There's no way you can't be mostly green at 23. Unless you are Rey Misterio Jr. who was 21 years 7 months when he debuted in WCW and had been a top class worker for a few years already. Then again, he did debut at 14. I can see why people would vote for Big Vis - tag champ, King of the Ring, main evented a SummerSlam. But his main event push was such a flop and during the lowest period in company history that I feel it works against him more than helps him.
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Post by Baker on Jan 14, 2018 2:24:44 GMT
*There's a bigger gap than usual between rankings this low in the countdown. Usually it's a jumble around these spots. Not this time.
#35 IRS- IRS at #46 is one of the few rankings I disagree with. He should be Top 40 imo.
As was the norm for 90s WWF he was introduced through a series of vignettes. Fun Fact: I had no idea he was a new wrestler at first. Thought it was just another one of those commercials for a legit tax service :lol: Don't remember much about his early days but he would soon find success by teaming with fellow money-themed wrestler Ted Dibiase as Money Inc. They had a lengthy tag title reign that I weirdly don't remember much about despite being a big fan of both guys. Memorably smashed Brutus Beefcake's surgically repaired face with his trademark briefcase (IRS: Innovator) setting a big Money Inc vs Beefcake & Hogan feud. Then he helped turn Razor face. Beat Kid at Summerslam 93 and was booked strong as a single when Dibiase retired setting up an IC Title showdown with Razor at Royal Rumble '94 that could have easily made my 1994 "Draws" list since I really thought IRS was taking that one. Eventually joined his former partner's Million Dollar Corporation. Destroyed Tatanka's sacred headdress in another memorable dick heel moment. Then feuded with Undertaker before finally fizzling out.
IRS had a sneaky good 90s WWF career. He was always kept fairly strong. Always seemed to be on tv. Always in a feud. Wrestled such legends as Hogan, Taker, LOD & Razor on PPV back when there were only a few pay per views a year. You could also make a strong case for IRS being THE most reprehensible heel in 93-94 WWF. Even as a heel/IRS fan, stuff like smashing Beefcake's surgically repaired face with his briefcase and destroying Tatanka's sacred headdress was a step too far. The former was too much even for Jimmy Hart! I mean you know you've gone too far when even JIMMY HART is like "Dude, You've gone too far. Tone it down a notch."
I also love how this entire gimmick came about because of Vince's pettiness. The real life IRS gave him a tough audit or whatever and Vince is like "Oh, you wanna play hard ball? Fine. I'm gonna make every young wrestling fan in America hate your guts!" I personally love Vince's pettiness. Anyway, is IRS in the WWE Hall of Fame yet? If not, he totally should be.
#46 Val Venis- Along with Godfather, the quintessential Attitude Era midcarder. Venis was to the raunchy Attitude Era what face Doink was to the silly New Generation. Being a defining character of his era earned Val some bonus points.
The wrestling porn star was introduced in a series of hilarious, very much "of the time" vignettes that were hugely over with my clique and the denizens of AOL's wrestling community. Was a solid hand, but few cared (at least at the time) because the "Hello Ladies" stuff and porn star shtick was his bread and butter, not taking DDTs well or doing some Kenta Kobashi moves. Was memorably almost castrated by Kaientai. Won a few secondary titles. Formed a fun alliance with the aforementioned Godfather. Had one 1999's better tv matches with Austin on Smackdown, but it came as "serious" Val, so nobody really cared.
The Attitude Era's Rick Rude was a memorable character who is rated about right.
#49 Marty Jannetty- Started off the decade as one half of the popular Rockers team. Despite their popularity they never did (officially) win the tag titles. Was the victim of the most famous tag team breakup in wrestling history when his partner Shawn Michaels memorably threw him through the Barbershop window. Feuded with Michaels on and off for over a year in between firings. Finally got some revenge by beating Shawn for the IC Title in the first great episode of Raw. Would only hold it a few weeks before dropping it back to HBK. Spent a few months as a jobber to the stars making Ludvig Borga and others look like a million bucks. Won the tag titles with Kid for a few days. Got fired again. Came back in late 95 to resume his role as a babyface jobber with music. Formed the amazing, albeit terribly un-over, New Rockers tag team with Leif Cassidy before finishing up at Survivor Series 96.
Marty was a good hand and a memorable figure from his era. If nothing else, everybody remembers the Rockers breakup. The whole concept of "The Jannetty" has even seeped into popular culture. He was his own worst enemy forever getting fired before he could ever build up any real momentum. Yet I don't think he was ever going to equal the heights Shawn reached. Michaels had several intangibles that Jannetty lacked. Drugs or no drugs, I feel like Jannetty was destined to peak as a midcard "good hand" type. Basically a Tito Santana for the 90s.
It's worth pointing out that Jannetty appeared on all but one ballot, usually in one of the final spots.
#50 Alundra Blayze- I considered several different wrestlers for the #50 spot before settling on the Ace of WWF's mid-90s women's division. Blayze's biggest claim to fame is, for all intents and purposes, she WAS that division. For the two years it existed said division consisted of Blayze + The Woman She Was Feuding With. I liked the Bull Nakano matches when I watched them a few years back. But, yeah, if I had to do it over again this spot would go to Sable or Taka or Borga or Pierre or....
Vince McMahon- In spite of being an actual WWF World Heavyweight Champion I left Vince off my ballot, excusing his omission by telling myself I'd reward him in the Supplemental Countdown. As I mentioned in the Sable & Shane write ups, I have a tough time ranking "non-wrestlers." I mean Vince is easily Top 10, if not Top 5 for the entire decade from an overness/importance standpoint. But he's also, like, not a REAL wrestler. I dunno. Had WWF's Feud of the Decade (from a business standpoint) with Austin. Also had a fun match with Austin. Hated the '99 Rumble and him winning the title from Trips though.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 15, 2018 16:39:08 GMT
Again, I've only got the bandwidth/capability to comment on my picks while at work and on my phone...
47.) Marty Jannetty: With two proper 'Mania appearances, three SummerSlam appearances (including one tag title bout), 1x tag title reign, 1x IC title reign, and 1993 PWI Match of the Year as accolades to his name... Plus surprising longevity despite endless hiring/firing... Jannetty earns a bottom spot on my list, over other preferred guys and gals, based on "objective" measures.
40.) Irwin R. Schyster: I considered some admittedly dumber "objective" measures like number of WrestleMania and SummerSlam appearances, and being a 1994 KOTR semifinalist as if that actually meant something... But really, it's IRS three tag title reigns; feuds with the likes of Hogan, 'Taker, Bret, Razor, and the Legion of Doom over his run; iconic character; and decent longevity that earned him his spot on my list. Arguably as deserving as the Model, if not more so, of the Mountie's quick transitional IC title reign.
24.) Vince McMahon: I'm feeling like this might be another instance where my "objective" measures might've created an inadvertent bias in my list. A WWF title reign was probably the top prize in my criteria as far as earning someone ranking points. Winning a Royal Rumble was pretty high up there too. Add in my multiplier for transcending one's position slash exceeding expectations, and all of a sudden it's a pretty impactful deal for Vince to be winning the Rumble and world title in '99. Add to that his matches against Austin in '98 (RAW in the wake of 'Mania XIV) and '99 (St. Val's Mass) were arguably two of THE MOST anticipated matches of the Attitude Era. Plus he won PWI's 1996 Feud of the Year and the 1998/1999 PWI & WON Feud of the Year awards. Just felt like ol' Vinnie Mac deserved some love in the main countdown list.
23.) Bob Backlund: Primary points were awarded for his WWF title win, even if the reign was brief. He appeared at a couple of 'Manias, and won PWI's 1994 Most Hated award. I was a sucker for his Howdy Doody schtick pre-heel turn. Then he total reinvented himself when he snapped, turned heel, and became Mister Backlund. I don't know if anyone watching Bob in real time during his previous WWF run could've ever predicted or imagined the magnificence of Mister Backlund. He really should've reigned until at least the 1995 Royal Rumble. There was so much more mileage in that character IMO. Plus, it's crazy to think about how well the stars aligned with 40-year-old George Foreman winning the title to cause a mainstream stir, Backlund being 40 and positioned for a world title program between his July match with Bret and having lost the title without really losing it all those years ago. Plus, I think his 90s run lasted from '92 through '97 technically, so not too shabby on the longevity front.
21.) Alundra Blayze: To 90s WWF women's wrestling what Wendi Richter was to 80s WWF women's wrestling. Maybe more important? If so, probably because she was essentially the entire division for most of the 90s. Anyway... The Attitude Era women's division was a horrible joke from a wrestling standpoint. So aside from Chyna, Alundra is my top ranking lady. 3x women's title reigns, defended the title at a WrestleMania and at two SummerSlams, had an epic rivalry with Bull and compelling enough rivalries with Luna and Bertha. Wish Sherri had hung around to feud with her in the early 90s, and wish Alundra had hung around to turn heel and pass the torch begrudgingly to Sable (or remain face and feud with Sunny and Chyna).
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Post by Shootist on Jan 16, 2018 4:31:14 GMT
Rick Martel had a couple of lengthy runs in the Royal Rumble and had the famous feud with Jake. He vanished for over a year then lost to Razor in the IC title tourney. Just too spotty of a 90's career to include. Shane was never a consideration. I hated him a a part of the Mean Street Posse and he was late to the dance of McMahons competing in the ring. Al Snow was 46 on my list mostly for his popular "Head" run. He was "lol WWF" material when I first saw him in my cousin's WWF magazine as a New Rocker. Still gets a plus for sticking it through the New Generation and transitioning very well into the Attitude Era. Marc Mero created a slight buzz when he jumped to the WWF. He added to the Austin aura by splitting his lip during a King Of The Ring loss to the Rattlesnake. After winning Sable from Triple H he kind of floundered until he cut his hair, embraced his boxing history and started to treat her badly. Then he was mostly remembered for taking multiple Sable Bombs which wasn't really a bad thing during that era. Like Baker , I ignored the New Generation Women's Division but Bull Nakano still may stand as the best female heel WWF/E ever had. D-Lo Brown was off and on my list many times before finally slipping off into possibly the 51st spot. He had a great run as European Champion and was a pretty solid worker who could move well for a big man and take great bumps. One of the best midcarders of the era. Jim Neidhart had a good first year or so as the more boisterous member of the Hart Foundation. He then was busted for drugs then saddled with the youngest Hart in Owen forming the New Foundation. After toiling in the lower card went to WCW briefly before stepping his game up when he returned turning heel on Bret. I wish Bret and Anvil could have had a more of a 1 on 1 feud but still he was a great added element to the Bret/Owen angle. He became a natural addition to the Hart Foundation stable but he quickly faded into the background with all those stars around him. He had longevity but just didn't have a long enough breakout from other more over stars for my liking. Rikishi was another tough one to rank ultimately being left off my list. Had his main event run started earlier than 1999 he would have had a better chance of making it. Started off continuing his SST run with Samu as the Headshrinkers. They soon became one of the more popular New Generation tag teams but after splitting up not long after became the Sultan and a pseudo hip hop artist which hurt him. His push also kind of hurt him as the ridiculous solution to the "who ran over Stone Cold?" mystery. Closed out the decade involved in one of the best HIAC matches of all time though and taking world class bumps. Hacksaw was mostly a lower level Hogan buddy then became a Sarge buddy which helped the Iraqi turncoat turn face. Not much else happened for him until he was epically squashed (figuratively and literally) by Yokozuna which caused him to spit blood. No matter where he was on the card he was still popular with his own unique charisma. I missed out on Hakushi in real time but I have watched his matches with Bret and Kid which were great. Had they stuck with it more and promoted him better WWF could have had a leg up on WCW's Cruiserwieght Division. He was one of the better finds by the WWF after getting mostly duds during the era. I actually did consider Doink for my list. He became infamous as the years progressed but he was a classic annoying heel who did some great things with Crush and Bam Bam Bigelow. I had the same line of thinking as Baker on Sable. I gave her due in the supplemental list but never really thought of her as an in ring competitor. Her Sable Bomb was impressive but she didn't do much else. Really got over for her photo shoots and bikini contests and not her wrestling. I was the lone vote for Jericho as he ended up being another vital blow to WCW when he jumped. His debut still gets replayed to this day and he could show that he could keep up with The Rock. His impact on the Monday Night Wars was more than strong enough to make my list. Bob Holly was number 37 on my list. He gets much respect for sticking it out with an embarrassing gimmick and going on to popularize the WWF Hardcore Division which became one of the most unpredictable elements of Raw during the show's glory days. Taka Michinoku was another name that straddled off and on my list. He would be left off as his work was overshadowed by everything else happening on Raw then was a part of one of the more cringe worthy segments with Val Venis. His Michinoku Driver was the most impressive finisher on the WWF roster during the time. I was the high vote for Mable as he had a very interesting journey in the 90's spanning the New Generation to the Attitude Era while being a tag specialist, a main eventer and bit player at varying times. Rubbing shoulders with the World Champ and The Undertaker (and taking him out) are always pluses. Vince was in retrospect the paradigm shift of the business but I gave him credit for that on the supplemental list. In ring everyone hates his '99 Rumble and title wins, a few encounters with Austin wasn't good enough for my list. Val Venis was a natural fit for his era and added to the flavour of Raw and PPVs. His pre-match shtick and vignettes were must see and over with everyone who watched in my group of friends as well. Good for 47 on my list. Marty Jannety's claim to fame of being thrown through a window and becoming a popular euphemism in tag team wrestling wasn't enough for my list. He did have an early Raw highlight beating Shawn for the IC title in a barn burner however. I was surprised to see Allundra Blayze (Madusa) show up in the WWF as the female manger was Sherri's territory and the WWF didn't have any female wrestlers. It was a noble effort to try and rebuild the division around her but it fell flat and she was underutilized. Became much more famous for the other guys for shitting on the WWF Women's Division. IRS got to 38 on my list. He had quite a remarkable midcard run occasionally squaring off with Hulk Hogan, LOD and the Undertaker while getting under the skin of nearly everyone in the building. In response to Baker, Vince didn't need to try and make people hate the IRS, I think everyone naturally does. Rotundo's depiction was spot on though. Tatanka was 42 on my list. He had a lot of hype coming in, I even found out about him through some friends who got the PW Torch ("You don't know who Chris Chavis is?!") so he was an early big name on the "indy scene" before I was really aware there was one. He had a memorable winning streak that was ended by Ludvig Borga and a good midcard feud with Ted DiBiase's corporation that hit all the right Native American nerves to get a response. Also memorably turned heel on Lex Luger which was a bit of a shock. I lost track of him after that as the WCW big names became more attractive but he had enough notable incidents to make my list. LOD will get their due on the tag list. Individually there really isn't much there outside of Royal Rumble appearances and "Drunk Hawk", ugh. I laughed my ass off at what the WWF were having Ron Simmons do during a random peak into WWF world in the summer of 1996. I then turned back to Nitro... Anyway, got into his groove forming the Nation when I resumed my WWF watching habits and I was impressed with the violence of his feud with Ahmed Johnson. Kind of was in the wilderness before linking up with Bradshaw and Undertaker forming the Acolytes. I liked the potential of this ass kicking team but they became much more noted for comedy than ass kicking. It still worked out as their backstage segments were some of the best parts of WWF programming at the time. Despite the dubious beginnings Faarooq still made number 45 on my list. Backlund was much more suited as just a goofy character heel rather than batshit crazy WWF champion. I've actually watched a few more of his running for office skits from 95/96 and have been mildly ammused. Still leaves a black mark for being a part of turning off WWF TV for the most part of 2 plus years though. I'll do the supplemental lists later.
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Post by Baker on Jan 16, 2018 7:21:20 GMT
#28 Road Warrior Hawk/#29 Road Warrior Animal- I also had them as the #2 WWF tag team of the 90s. Came in with a lot of fanfare. The Demolition feud was huge on the playground. Kicked ass. Were over. Won the tag titles. Had a few other feuds. Returned on a memorable episode of Raw in '97. Were quickly thrust into big matches against the Hart Foundation. Oddly enough (or not given my penchant for always being five years behind the times) this was the peak of their star power in my eyes. During their first run I viewed them as just another team. Successful, and a big deal, to be sure, but I didn't know they were supposed to be the undisputed GOAT tag team or anything like that. I just sort of ranked them as an equal to the Hart Foundation, Demolition, Brainbusters, etc. Well, after 15 months of devouring Apter Mags now I knew. Took longer than expected to win the tag titles. Unexpectedly dropped them to the awful New Age Outlaws in what honestly seemed to me like a sign that Vince had just given up and was now trolling his dwindling fanbase. This lead to a downward spiral both in kayfabe and reality. We got the midlife crisis LOD 2000 stuff followed by drunk Hawk. They wisely left not long after that before their legacy could be ruined any further. #32 Mr. Bob Backlund- Rated him where I did for similar reasons to 🤯 . He's a borderline contender about on par with Ludvig Borga (both had one hot four-five month run, though Backlund did have far more longevity) without the WWF title win over Bret. That boosted him about 20 spots on my list. With that out of the way, it's now time for some barely-on-topic rambling.... Bob Backlund had one of the weirdest careers ever. Champion for 5 years in the 70s & 80s. Then disappeared off the face of the earth for nearly a decade before resurfacing in late 1992. I had never even heard of Bob Backlund before his '92 return. He had become unpersoned. I liked babyface Bob Backlund. If you're gonna be a good guy, go hard. Backlund was such a nice old man. Like an uncle who would help you with your homework or teach you to throw a curveball. A bit dorky. Definitely harmless. But such a NICE old man. He shook hands before and after the match. He pinned jobbers with small packages. Then he'd give them some pointers to improve their game. But this dude was clearly never going anywhere. Nice guys finish last in pro wrestling. So Backlund spent almost two years just treading water as one of the more forgettable members of the roster. This made his transformation to middle aged and crazy Mr. Bob Backlund all the more astounding. The first Bret match on Superstars is one of the early "good matches" I remember seeing, meaning that even as a mark I realized it was clearly a cut above the normal match. Then we got the awesome post-match snapping and a legend was born. Backlund went Chickenwing mad and started beating everybody while cutting amazing batshit insane promos. And man, did Mr. Backlund promos rule. He had that New Breed thing where he'd say the most outrageous things with the utmost conviction. This is a guy who believes what he is saying. Backlundmania was running wild. So was Chickenwingmania. One of my fondest memories from school is the principal announcing over the loudspeaker something like "any student caught using the Crossface Chickenwing will be suspended" as Chickenwingmania really was running wild at my school. Mr. Backlund did the impossible when he beat Bret with just the tiniest bit of help from Owen to regain the title that he had never fairly lost. Then he felt like God and all was right in the WWF Universe. Of course he stupidly dropped the belt days later to dumb Diesel and that was pretty much the end of Mr. Backlund as a serious player. He got more comedic and less dangerous as time went on. Before long, even I no longer cared about one of the two best things in 1994 wrestling. He ran for president. Occasionally wrestled, usually losing. And in his last great moment bestowed the sacred Board of Education to his protege The Dean in something that should have been more of a thing. #39 Tatanka- Had one of the longest undefeated streaks in WWF history. Goldberg ain't got nothin' on Tatanka. Was always on tv. Was popular. Also always seemed to be in a feud, with Model, HBK, Borga, IRS, Bigelow & Luger being some of the wrestlers who had extended beefs with Tatanka. Memorably turned heel on Luger in one of the first swerves I remember seeing. As great a shock moment as that was, it killed his career. Tatanka flamed out hard as a bad guy. He just wasn't cut out for villainy. The Luger feud never seemed to end. Nor did it ever seem to go anywhere. Somehow main evented KOTR 95 in a tag match long after his heat had died. Left the company a few months later. While I was a Tatanka hater during his undefeated streak, and his heel run sucked once the initial shock had worn off, I actually think Tatanka might be a little underrated. The Borga match that sees his long undefeated streak finally come to an end rules. He also had a shockingly good match with Underfaker, of all people. I vaguely remember a pretty good Yokozuna match as well. At the very least, Tatanka was a great monster-fighting babyface. Probably because I had seen him win so many matches, many of them with that trademark "Indian" comeback, that monster heels swatting him down during said comeback made them seem all the more powerful. Babyface Tatanka was a quality gatekeeper. #41 Faarooq- A solid midcarder with several peaks and valleys throughout the late 90s. Had a long feud with Ahmed. Lead a memorable stable. Really found his niche with Bradshaw in the Acolytes as the decade came to a close. Debuted in gladiatorial garb with a memorable attack on IC Champion Ahmed Johnson. As an Ahmed hater, this meant I was into 'Rooq right away. Of course, I also thought Faarooq was just there to be Ahmed's personal job guy for a few months before they pushed Johnson to the moon. Little did I know that it would be Faarooq who would have the lengthy WWF career while Ahmed flamed out. And me being me, I was also the one wrestling fan who was at least kinda sorta into the gladiator gimmick Lost to Marc Mero in the final of a tournament for the IC title Ahmed had been forced to vacate. Faarooq soon dropped the gladiator gimmick to start a crappy stable with Crush and (eventually) Savio Vega. BOO! That, coupled with the Ahmed feud never seeming to end, nor go anywhere, killed my interest in Faarooq. Fired Crush & Savio after a loss to Ahmed & LOD at Wrestlemania. Formed a new Nation. I was still not caring. Was a bit of a Nation hater until Rock caught fire, and D'Lo & Godfather found themselves, actually. Main evented KOTR 97 with a predictable loss to Undertaker. Got Ahmed to join the Nation in a twist on what I had predicted for months, which was Faarooq eventually turning face (likely by saving Ahmed from a beatdown) to team with Ahmed for a tag title run. The Nation did its thing. Rock eventually surpassed Faarooq in star power and soon usurped the Nation from him. Faarooq was a heatless wonder for a few months after this before joining forces with fellow heatless wonder Bradshaw to form the Acolytes. It saved both of their careers. I took to the Acolytes right away. Their reckless, hard hitting style was such a deviation from the WWF norm. Loved watching their matches. Won the tag titles a time or two. Still weren't over with the masses until they finally found a winning gimmick with the APA shtick in the waning months of the decade.
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Post by Baker on Jan 16, 2018 18:57:22 GMT
#37 Jacques Mountie- A staple midcard heel throughout the first half of the decade. The 90s began with Jacques still as one half of the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers. He soon left for about a year before resurfacing as The Mountie in a series of cool vignettes. Had a memorable feud/match with Bossman over who was the REAL law & order of WWF. Beat a sick Bret Hart to win the IC title. Sadly lost it to Piper a few days later. Continued to antagonize fans and babyface wrestlers for nearly another near. The shock stick was a great prop. Mountie also had good chemistry with his manager Jimmy Hart. Came back about a year later as 1/2 of the Quebecers. Had epic squashes. Won the tag titles from the Steiners in a memorable "Province of Quebec Rules" match chock full of awesome sports entertainment bullshit. Was part of the awesome Foreign Fanatics Survivor Series squad. Held the tag titles the better part of 7 months. Jacques would once again sadly disappear not long after losing the belts. Quebecers returned in 1998 but the less said about that run the better.
Just a classic heel and one of my personal favorites. In fact, he'd have a good shot at cracking the Top 5 on a 90s WWF Favorites list.
#38 Jerry Lawler- WWF's secret weapon during the mid-90s. Lawler was a valuable role player who was always over as a heel. He had a knack for getting heat and was great at selling his own feuds on commentary. Had an epic feud with Bret that raged on for years. Could be trotted out to do anything from helping to get over newbies (Ahmed, Taka, Christopher, Hakushi, Yankem), to giving stars a heated time killing feud (Bret, Jake), to giving Survivor Series shows an added hook (93, 94), to even main eventing pay per views (Piper). Lawler was also the perfect guy to be victimized by a midget revolt or get ECW over on WWF television. It's a testament to Lawler's greatness that he managed to remain over for so long without having an ounce of credibility to most WWF fans. "The King" also ranked high on my Supplemental list.
#40 Papa Godfather- A versatile performer who got two wildly different gimmicks over in two drastically different eras. Started out as the voodoo priest Papa Shango memorably "cursing" the likes of Mean Gene and Ultimate Warrior while still finding the time to magically set jobbers boots afire. Always seemed to be on Superstars. In fact, for a few months there Shango was the main WWF draw for me as I had to see what the voodoo priest was up to next. Fizzled out before getting any big pay per view matches because WWF could be mighty stupid sometimes. Resurfaced as Kama: The Ultimate Fighter to capitalize on the burgeoning popularity of UFC. It got about as over as a fart in church. Left. Came back again with a last name. Joined Faarooq's Nation. Was boring. Slowly morphed into the fun-loving Godfather we all know and love. Had tons of charisma. Was hugely over with my clique and the AOL wrestling community. Godfather and Val are the quintessential Attitude Era midcarders imo. Won the IC title when it was no longer a big deal. Hell, Godfather is one of the reasons it was no longer a big deal :lol: Look, I dug the guy, but he just wasn't championship material in my book. Still, Papa Shango & The Godfather were such fun characters.
#43 Ahmed Johnson- Burst onto the scene by slamming Yokozuna and winning a big Wild Card Survivor Series match merely a month into his WWF career which cemented Ahmed as the Next Big Thing. I fully expected him to not just win the WWF title, but to be the next Hogan/Warrior style flag bearer for the company. Ahmed fit the WWF's no selling muscly babyface template I had always known to a tee. Always won. Almost always left standing tall even against gang attacks and weapon-aided beatdowns. Had a pretty long undefeated streak. Had at least minor beefs with almost all the major heels. Beat Goldust for the IC Title. Was hugely over with most of my clique. The sky was the limit for Ahmed. Then the injuries and Faarooq feud happened. The Faarooq feud started out hot but that damn thing never seemed to end, or go anywhere. And Ahmed became synonymous with injuries. If he wasn't getting injured himself, he was hurting his opponents. The bloom soon wore off as Ahmed was forever injured, or injuring, and the tastes of wrestling fans were rapidly changing. An ill-conceived heel turn was the final nail in his coffin. He quit the company right before it took off, allegedly due to a spat with management over refusing to sell for....
#48 Chyna- Beat out Vince & Sable to become the only "non wrestler" to make my list. Started life as a valet for Hunter Hearst Helmsley and she'll get credit for that when we get deeper into the Supplemental countdowns. Started wrestling more as 98 went into 99. Vaguely recall her doing a lot of stuff with Vince & The Stooges early on in the wrestling phase of her career. Had a great look. Member of DX and later the Corporation. Was over. A pioneer. Became the first woman to enter the Royal Rumble and King of the Ring tournament. Had a cool feud with Double J. Became the first and only woman to ever hold the IC Title. The JJ/Chyna feud was actually the only time I cared about the IC Title in between Shamrock (who had a longer reign than I remembered) and Orton/Cactus in 2004. Ended the decade feuding with a still relatively new Chris Jericho over the IC title.
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Post by Baker on Jan 17, 2018 22:42:35 GMT
I love how we got a big guy cluster with Show-Vader-Quake-Bigelow all in a row. Also, Big Show is like ten spots too high.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 18, 2018 0:21:15 GMT
Let me hit mine... I'll have to come back at some point (hopefully I actually do) and drop thoughts on other wrestlers who were either near-misses for me or never under consideration for various reasons. Anyway... 50.) Bam Bam Bigelow: I went back and forth for a long time on how high to rank Bam Bam, and ultimately gave him the #50 spot when I couldn't figure out how to reconcile the fact that he main-evented a WrestleMania but never held a title or really did anything much of note in the WWF. And that sums up his highs, really. Because the poor guy had some really low lows, IMO, even before he really drew the ire of the Kliq. The "objective" measures that I considered were his two WrestleMania appearances, including one main event; two SummerSlam appearances; being a finalist in the 1993 King of the Ring tournament; being a central piece to the Million Dollar Corporation; and having an almost four-year run. 47.) Charles Wright (a.k.a. Papa Shango/Kama (Mustafa)/The Godfather: As was brought up in the discussion thread previously, Wright had a surprisingly long run and pulled off vastly different characters with quite a bit of success IMO. Papa Shango is/was iconic and tangled with Hogan, Warrior, and Bret at his peak. Kama the Supreme Fighting Machine was an interesting idea and breathed a little bit of fresh air into the downward-spiraling Million Dollar Corporation. Then Kama disappeared and reappeared with a surname to become a core part of the revamped Nation of Domination. Broke out of that as The Godfather, arguably Wright's second most iconic but must over character. Picked up a somewhat surprising IC title win. 46.) Ahmed Johnson: Would've ranked a lot higher most likely if he hadn't been so injury prone. Earns his spot on the strength of his early push, picking up an IC title win, and winning PWI's 1996 Most Improved award. In some alternate universe where Ahmed isn't so fragile, perhaps he wins the 1996 KOTR instead of Steve Austin, wins the IC title, wins the 1997 Royal Rumble, and becomes the first black WWF Champion in the main event of WrestleMania 13. Perhaps he goes on to essentially be black Hogan (or at minimum, black Ultimate Warrior). 45.) Jerry Lawler: In a similar boat as Bam Bam Bigelow in a way... no titles or anything really meaningful to his name within the context of the Federation's possible achievements. However, he won PWI's 1993 & 1995 Feud of the Year and Most Hated awards. Whether he was tangling with bigger or more important-seeming names like Bret, Piper, Jake, etc. or slumming it with non-Matt Borne Doinks and midget clowns and greener-than-goose shit quasi-Olympian weightlifters, Lawler was ALWAYS consistently good at what he was there to be and do. To be transparent, I also included such "objective" measures as him being a 1997 KOTR semifinalist and his two SummerSlam appearances. 42.) Vader: Yes, I ranked him a spot above Mabel. The teenaged smark in me couldn't bring myself to rank Mabel ahead of Vader, even if objective measures might've allowed for it. In my mind, I figured Vader's SummerSlam main event title match beats Mabel's because Vader technically beat champion Shawn Michaels twice in his match whereas Mabel beat champion Diesel zero times (technically or otherwise). Whereas Mable has a KOTR Crown to his name, Vader has murdering Gorilla Monsoon to his name. Just kidding, it's Vader's presence in the main event and involvement with bigger names over a more consistent/longer stretch than Mabel that gave Leon the edge. Mable tangled with Undertaker; so did Vader (but in a title match on a PPV... and then again at another PPV, where he too defeated Undertaker). Vader also has matches against Shawn, Sid, Bret, etc. on his resume... as well as his performance in that awesome Final Four Match. 39.) Jacques Rougeau: 1x IC title reign + 3x tag title reigns + appearances at four WrestleManias across the decade earn the Mountain Man his spot. Having versatility as a tag and singles guy gave him a little multiplier effect. Also, being one of Baker's favorites is also apparently an "objective" measure in PI's book. 35.) Road Dogg: 1x IC title reign, 1x Hardcore title reign, 5x Tag Team title reigns, KOTR semifinalist in 1995 & 1999, appeared in title matches at two WrestleManias (one IC and one tag)... and really, just his evolution from the Roadie to one half of the most over tag teams of the 1990s. If signing ability and promo skills were objectively measurable stats, the D-O-double-G might rank even higher. 32. Earthquake: High ranking based on killing Hogan and going toe-to-toe with Andre and the Legion of Doom as the better half of the Natural Disasters. Has a tag title reign to his name, was the 1991 Royal Rumble runner-up. Earned PWI's 1991 Most Hated award. 4 appearances at 'Mania and 'Slam, including tag title matches and a one-on-one match against Hogan (who was arguably hotter than the world champ at the time). Surprising longevity with appearances in the early, mid, and late 90s. 31.) Chyna: Realizing I ranked her below Alundra Blayze, and realizing where I ranked Vince McMahon and Shane McMahon and why, I really should've ranked Chyna a lot higher. The transcending one's position/exceeding expectations multiplier that I used for others wasn't as consistently applied to Chyna for her participation in the Rumble, KOTR tournament, and especially winning the IC title. Sorry, Joanie... screwed again! 25. Big Show: Reading Baker's comment made me realize I was probably the one that got Big Show ranked so high. And I feel bad about it. Is it any consolation that he's ranked below Mr. Backlund on my list? Despite only being in 1990s WWF for a year (technically less than), Show notched out enough "objective" measures to earn a solid spot. I weighted winning the WWF Title very heavily. Maybe too heavily if you also consider my rankings of Sarge, Vince, and Backlund. Part of me was determined though to get every WWF Champion of the 1990s into at least the Top 25 for my own personal list. Show got extra points too for having two tag title reigns to his name and pretty consistently being involved in the main event scene for the whole year.
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Post by Baker on Jan 18, 2018 2:32:59 GMT
#24 Road Dogg- I was the high voter for Roadie. Dammit, PW. You're gonna end up turning me into a New Age Outlaws "fan" and I'm gonna hate for it just because they get absolutely no respect around here. First they don't even crack the Top 50 in our Favorite Tag Team Countdown. Now they get dissed in this countdown too.
Anyway, The D-O-Double G started life as Jeff Jarrett's annoying wrestler/manager flunky. Left for a year. Somehow managed to be even worse (although slightly less annoying) when he returned as "The Real Double J." This turd finally found some success when paired with fellow yawn-inducer Rockabilly Gunn. These two hacks miraculously became the most over WWF tag team of all time. Yeah, I went there. Prove me wrong. Were hugely over as heels and even more over as merchandise-moving, catchphrase spouting babyfaces in DX. Won the tag titles a bunch of times. Had memorable feuds with LOD & Hardcore Legends. Road Dogg also picked up some singles gold and was surprisingly not terrible for perhaps the only time in his career doing hardcore matches. Outlaws were also #1 with a bullet on my Tag Team list.
#27 Earthquake- The highest ranking member of this four man Big Guy Battalion. In fact, I was tied for the highest 'Quake voter. The Hogan feud alone would have earned him a spot on my list. That was big enough to main event a Summerslam. Due to it putting Hulk Hogan out of action for a considerable period of time, I totally bought into his Earthquake Splash as a murderous maneuver. And this even before he quite literally murdered Damien with it in another memorable moment. Formed a fun fat guy tag team with Typhoon. Won the tag titles. Were over as both faces and heels. Left and came back for a disappointing run in '94. Came back again in 1998 completely reinvented as jolly fat guy Golga. OK, so his latter two runs kind of sucked, but do earn him some longevity points. Also gets a bonus point or two for doing a bunch of simple stuff awesomely (elbow drop, powerslam, running the ropes) and for having the 2nd best bicep flex taunt (behind Steven) in wrestling history.
#42 Bam Bam Bigelow- Had a 3 year run as a prototypical midcard gatekeeper type. Beat the guys you'd expect him to beat. Lost to the guys you'd expect him to lose to. Somehow main evented a Wrestlemania. Had long feuds with Tatanka and Doink. Made the finals of the 1993 KOTR tournament. Was a staple of Dibiase's Million Dollar Corporation. Had a cool name and outfit. Turned babyface. Wore Flotuses. Probably deserved more.
Random: Does anybody remember BBB burning Bret Hart with a fireball not long after he returned to the company? I swear this happened! But I've never seen anybody, anywhere ever bring it up. Nor did it lead to much of a feud.....unless they squared off at a bunch of house shows?
#44 Big Show- Show's in that group with Backlund & Slaughter where there's no way he cracks the list without winning the WWF Title. That earned him a good 20-30 spots on my ballot.
Show's 90s WWF career lasted under a year and has to be considered a disappointment even with the WWF Title reign. Started out great when he memorably broke through the ring to interfere in the big Austin/Vince match. It was mostly downhill from there. Foreshadowing his future with the company, he turned no fewer than four times in his first 8-9 months. Was Corporation. Then Union. Then joined forces with Undertaker in a duo that had potential but soon fizzled out due to Taker's injuries. They did win the tag titles twice but that didn't mean 1/10th as much as it did in the early 90s. Also served as a great 7 foot prop for the best promos of Taker's career during this period. Turned face again when Taker took a break. Won the WWF Title. Had a fun sports entertainment feud with Bossman (that was totally carried by Bossman, I might add). And even then, having a (darkly) comedic feud with Bossman in 1999 is hardly befitting of a World Champion. Yes, Big Show was one of those dreaded midcard World Champions. For all the flack Vince gave WWF about not knowing how to book a giant, he did an even worse job.
#45 Vader- A tough one to rate. I'm not sure I got it right. Probably should have been above Show & BBB but I didn't want to be accused of playing favorites. Oh well.
Contrary to popular belief, Vader had a great first 7 months. Was immediately treated like a big deal with hype videos. Was also paired with the company's #1 manager in Jim Cornette. Made a big impact at the Rumble. Made a bigger impact the next night on Raw when he squashed Monsoon in one of the most memorable angles of the era. Injured Yokozuna. Handed Ahmed his first lost (this was huge at the time). Pinned the "unbeatable" HBK in a 6 man tag. The sky was the limit going into Summerslam 96. I thought the next few months were gonna be like 1993 WCW all over again with Vader ruling the world. Actually had the match won twice (by DQ & Countout) but ended up losing in the end. This was disappointing, but the way they did it gave Vader an out, and I did assume there would be rematches with Vader (probably) winning. It became even more apparent that Shawn/Vader was not over when Vader once again pinned Michaels on Raw in a mixed tag of sorts. Then he lost to Sid on PPV (and in a negative star house show match I saw live) and was pretty much done as a main eventer even if he did beat Taker at a Royal Rumble and steal the show in a great 4 way against Bret, Austin & Taker. Spent the rest of his WWF career putting over everybody from credible folks like Shamrock & Kane to failing projects like Henry & Bradshaw. Became a "big fat pig." Left with his drawing power all but killed in the States. Like Bigelow, he didn't hold a single WWF championship. We also never got a renewal of the Vader/Foley feud I kept waiting and waiting for. Sad.
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Post by Shootist on Jan 18, 2018 2:55:46 GMT
Da Mountie made it to 39 on my list. He had great charisma and set the right tone to be the WWF's dickhead authority heel. Had memorable "shocking" moments with Bret Hart and Roddy Piper, won the IC title and spent some time in jail thanks to the Big Bossman. Came back to form a team with Pierre Oulette as the Quebecers, one of the more skilled heel teams in WWF history. They had great double team moves and were basically Da Mountie x2 when it came to antagonizing a crowd.
Papa Godfather was number 31 on my list on the strength of his versatility and being one of the more over members of the Attitude Era roster. They did go a little far rewarding him with an IC title run but due to portraying a variety of characters he has a nice collection of memorable moments. Cursing Ultimate Warrior, molding Undertaker's urn into a chain and calling everyone to board the "ho train" will be his lasting legacy.
I had Chyna in the 29 spot since she was so unique, broke down a lot of doors for females in the 90's and truly was one of the landmark characters of the WWF's revival. We were all questioning her gender when she debuted and found her to be basically an annoyance early on helping DX get the better of their feuds. Once she got a little work done and started competing with the male competitors her popularity exploded. Gets an even bigger plus on the ledger for beating Jeff Jarrett for the IC title and being very believable in that role.
I was also the high voter for Ahmed Johnson even thought to this day I haven't seen much of his prime work. I remember him as being a highly touted rookie and being very impressed with his look and his Pearl River Plunge finisher. I heard about his Kidney injury and started watching him more closely when he was decimated by The Nation. He came back as a heel but more injuries ensued and he was gone not long after. His hype though when the rest of the WWF was getting little hype stuck with me and really helped his placing on my list.
I left Jerry Lawler off my list since he was too sporadic in-ring wise and most of his matches were comedy outings. His feuds with Bret, Jake and Warrior and his squash match where he supplied his own commentary will always be heel and comedic gold.
Big Show was 35 on my list as he was another major acquisition from WCW and went after Austin from the get go which immediately had him in high standing. Concluded his year with another memorable moment when Big Bossman dragged his father's casket around a graveyard.
Vader was 26 on my list as he was another major player who jumped ship and was initially treated like a big deal. I even had to seek out footage of him destroying Gorilla Monsoon after hearing about it through some friends. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time in feuding with 1996 Shawn Michaels where the chemistry was never going to work. Scored a PPV win over the Undertaker and stayed in the main event scene for most of 1997 as well turning face in the process against the Hart Foundation. Also got a little mainstream publicity assaulting a Saudi reporter and had memorable encounters with Ken Shamrock. His stint died a slow death feuding with Kane, Mark Henry and JBL before finding greener pastures in Japan. If he had better timing he could have been a much bigger player for the WWF plus not being a Vince creation hurt his cause.
Earthquake was 33 on my list, he had the typical monster booking running through everyone and putting Hogan in jeopardy only to loose to him at the big PPV. Still recovered to basically end Andre's and Damien's on screen careers and form a team with Typhoon to challenge LOD. The Natural Disasters were a solid monster heel team who could both move around well and sell while not looking too vulnerable. Eventually he had to make the even bigger monster look well by jobbing to Yokuzuna before leaving. Was brought back as a forgettable member of the Oddities, the less said the better.
Bam Bam Bigelow was a welcome old face to the New Generation when he returned in 1992. He had great matches with Bret Hart both during the King Of The Ring tourney and outside of it. He even made a feud with Doink work before joining the Million Dollar Corporation. I lost track off him for a bit (bar his highly publicized match with LT) but did catch him a few times as a babyface teaming with Diesel. Next to Bret he would have been my second favorite guy in 1995 WWF but the clique cut his legs out from under him. All in all he made it to 41 on my list, just not enough main event moments to get any higher.
Road Dogg was basically just a joke to me as Jeff Jarrett's lackey then later as the "new Double J." His saving grace was becoming my (and most everyone's) favorite part of DX and squeezing in some single title wins to close the decade which got him to the 44 spot.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 18, 2018 23:59:39 GMT
34.) Big Boss Man (or is it The Big Bossman!?): Carved out quite a niche for himself in the late 90s in the Hardcore Division, picking up four title reigns. Also picked up a tag title reign in the late 90s. Ended the decade feuding with some big names (or at least guys who were or had been WWF Champions) in Stone Cold and Big Show. His reinvention to modernize his character and look as Mr. McMahon's one-man SWAT team was pretty impressive, I thought. Strangely though, despite having lost some weight upon his return, for whatever reason, his work in the ring seemed like it had dropped off. What his early 90s run lacked in titles and such easier to measure kayfabe achievements, it made up for with general overness, better in-ring work, and rubbing elbows with the likes of the Mega Powers. Even on his way down the card, he had entertaining feuds with Mountie and Nailz. On the whole Big Boss Man vs. The Big Bossman thing... I think this is how I'm going to settle it: face = Big Boss Man; heel = The Big Bossman... and honestly, I'm wondering if the "The" should just be optional in both cases, as it kinda is for folks like Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, Godfather, etc. ANYWAY!
33.) Ted DiBiase: Racked up three tag title reigns and mixed it up with the likes of the Legion of Doom and the Mega Maniacs. Despite falling from the main event picture in the late 80s, remained a decent upper card fixture through the early half of the 90s. Not sure whether or not to count his Million Dollar Championship reign as an objective measure. After his body gave out, he headed up his own stable... so that's something too, I guess. Honestly, in hindsight, wondering if I ranked DiBiase too high...
29.) Billy Gunn: Winning the 1999 KOTR crown, having a hardcore title reign, and EIGHT MOTHERFUCKIN' TAG TEAM TITLE REIGNS put Billy six spots ahead of Road Dogg on my personal list. Honestly, I don't think anyone else on my list has Gunn beat in terms of longevity. Who would potentially come close? Sean Waltman? Bob Holly? Papa Godfather? I ranked Waltman over Gunn by a hair, and that might be somewhat due to personal bias (which I tried to avoid, but it's Waltman... always been a mark for him!) but none of the others did enough with their longevity to top Gunn's "measurable" accomplishments. I guess there's Owen Hart. I think Owen's the only one on my list who beats Billy's longevity... (-_-)
28.) Ken Shamrock: Kind of in the Vader or Ahmed Johnson camp in that he had a decent push for a phase there, but cold feet would end up fucking his momentum up and he'd never really recover. Could've been so much bigger, so much more. That said, his resume isn't bad. One IC and one tag title reign, and the 1998 KOTR crown. Also won PWI's 1997 Most Improved award. For the first half of his run, he tangled strictly with upper card to main event names (Shawn, Bret, Vader, Undertaker, Rock, Mankind, etc.) and even his midcard stuff with Owen, Severn, X-Pac, and Blackman was fun and decent enough. Might've been ranked too high overall, but I was trying to keep the Kings of the Ring ranked on my list accordingly; i.e., so that no bullshit Kings were ranked ahead of the legit Kings. Shamrock was way more of a legit King than Billy, but Shamrock doesn't have enough else on his resume to be any more than one spot ahead of Billy IMO.
22.) Sgt. Slaughter: Again, if he's too high overall, blame me and how much weight I put on winning the world title. Again, I wanted to make sure all the world champions of the 90s were in my personal Top 25. Doing that just made it feel like I was being more "objective". Whatever. It was pretty impressive how old man Sarge was able to come back, get such nuclear heat (even if a lot of it was cheap), and turn out some pretty solid/horribly underrated(?) matches with Hogan. Aside from defeating Ultimate Warrior for the world title and main-eventing a 'Mania in a title match against Hogan, and then facing off against Hogan and Warrior again in the main event of a SummerSlam, Sarge also won PWI's 1991 Most Hated award. On the otherside of SummerSlam 1991, it was a pretty quick nose dive down the card though. At least he pops back up in the late 90s as the commissioner, and thankfully he wrestles a match against HHH... so I feel less greasy about considering Sarge's longevity to be more than what it really was.
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Post by Baker on Jan 19, 2018 4:57:12 GMT
🤯 covered this latest block pretty well so this will be a short one. I was the high voter for #20 Billy Gunn & #23 Bossman. Boss Man seems to be the official spelling (think he dropped the "Big" entirely during his second run) but I've been spelling it Bossman for over two decades and I'm too set in my ways to change now. Taker, Michaels, Bret & Owen all logged more 90s WWF time than Billy. Realizing Billy Gunn is the Arn Anderson or Bobby Eaton of WWF makes me wonder if the wrong company went out of business. #31 Sgt. Slaughter is in the same boat as Mr. Backlund & Big Show in that winning the championship boosted him like 30 spots and he doesn't sniff my list without it. #33 Ken Shamrock- Jerry Lawler is the most legit king since Edward the Confessor. Yet PI ranked Shamrock above him. Explain yourself, knave. #34 Ted Dibiase- No way he should have finished 20 spots ahead of his Money Inc. partner IRS. I had them back to back on my list.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 19, 2018 14:23:03 GMT
🤯 covered this latest block pretty well so this will be a short one. I was the high voter for #20 Billy Gunn & #23 Bossman.  Boss Man seems to be the official spelling (think he dropped the "Big" entirely during his second run) but I've been spelling it Bossman for over two decades and I'm too set in my ways to change now. Taker, Michaels, Bret & Owen all logged more 90s WWF time than Billy. Realizing Billy Gunn is the Arn Anderson or Bobby Eaton of WWF makes me wonder if the wrong company went out of business. #31 Sgt. Slaughter is in the same boat as Mr. Backlund & Big Show in that winning the championship boosted him like 30 spots and he doesn't sniff my list without it. #33 Ken Shamrock- Jerry Lawler is the most legit king since Edward the Confessor. Yet PI ranked Shamrock above him. Explain yourself, knave. #34 Ted Dibiase- No way he should have finished 20 spots ahead of his Money Inc. partner IRS. I had them back to back on my list. Fuck, I totally spaced on Undertaker, Bret, and Michaels. Duh! I guess maybe they were too obvious? Or I'm just an idiot space cadet. Going with the latter. That could/would also explain why I ranked Shamrock over King. Man, had 1995 WWF potentially gone a different (better!?) way, with no World Champ Mr. Backlund reigning until the '95 Rumble (or possibly even 'Mania!?) before dropping the title back to Bret so that Bret's reignited feud with Lawler could've also been a world title feud... Man oh man, might've been enough "objective" measures for me to slide King up into my Top 20 or 15 or maybe even 10.
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Post by Baker on Jan 20, 2018 2:45:59 GMT
I'll cover the Supplementals real quick since it's time to drop the latest batch. Only one so far off either list is....
#6 Mr. Perfect- Loved his alliance with Flair. One of my favorite pairings ever, actually. Those two had great chemistry together. Also chipped in with about a year's worth of commentary work later in the decade, mainly on my beloved Superstars. Bonus points for his in ring return forever being teased. It's just too bad the long-awaited payoff came in WCW. For what it's worth was also the first person to call Helmsley "Triple H."
Jimmy Hart- Felt bad leaving him off. Managed Quake during the big guy's feud with Hogan. Lead Mountie to the IC Title and became a modern day Lou Albano by leading the Nastys, Natural Disasters and Money Inc. to tag gold. Turning face because IRS went too far really put Money Inc (especially IRS) over as the most deplorable act in the company. Still wish he would have managed the Quebecers. Would've been an upgrade over Johnny Polo for sure.
Mike Tyson- Was good for business by bringing additional eyeballs to Wrestlemania 14.
Sherri- Did good work with Savage, Michaels and maybe Dibiase. Got under young Baker's skin.
Gorilla Monsoon- Continued the stellar chemistry he developed with Heenan in the 80s on commentary before becoming the most corrupt commissioner in WWF history. Oh where have you gone, Jack Tunney?
Todd Pettengill- Nostalgia has made this hyperactive doofus with a bad haircut more tolerable.
Sean Mooney- Just a guy. Never really think much about him. Often did "breaking news" style segments.
Stooges- Were fun. I personally would have had Patterson over Brisco for his GOAT ring announcer performance at Over The Edge '98. Calling Brisco "The Reincarnation of Jim Thorpe" is one of the all time great lines in wrestling history. I was rolling over the one.
--------------------------- Natural Disasters would have been my #11 tag team. Fun fat guy team. Won the titles. Were over as both faces & heels.
Headshrinkers- Umm....basically everything from the Natural Disasters write up, but chubby rather than fat, and a lesser version.
Diesel & HBK- A superteam that got everything handed to them on a silver platter.
Owen & Yoko/Kane & XPac- Two fun odd couple teams with both a heel & face take on the big/little dynamic.
Owen & JJ- Veteran second generation rasslers in an era that didn't care much about wrestling. Would have RULED in 94-95.
Hardcore Legends- Awesome short-lived team that got those damn New Age Outlaws over. I won't hold it against them.
Orient Express- Had a great match with the Rockers. Weirdly never got all that much of a push.
Hardy Boyz- Fun mostly undercard tag team that picked up a tag title reign or two while bringing some rare good matches to 1999 WWF. Were breaking out by decade's end on the strength of their game changing ladder match with Edge & Christian.
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Post by Big Pete on Jan 20, 2018 4:09:06 GMT
Dudes With Attitude were on my list, although I'm not sure if I agree with my logic in hindsight. For mine, Michaels is one of the greatest tag team workers of all-time. A lot of his flaws like his over-selling, work better in a tag team environment where he can recover from being man-handled for large portions of the match. The reason I went with Dudes is because they were bigger stars than The Rockers, had more success as a tag team and arguably had the better match with that Action Zone Kliq-4-all. More people obviously remember The Rockers, but for me, cutting off 89 hurts their cause in the 90s and by '91 they're bitter enemies. The Headshrinkers (Fatu and Samu) were one of the more successful units in the early 90s and always a joy to watch. Unlike say The Usos who are a bit cookie cutter, the shrinkers worked their gimmick well and picked the right times to move around the ring. They eventually found success in '94 in a big win against the Quebecers on Raw. Baker was the match any good? 15 minutes, it seems like one of those early good Raw matches that a lot of fans overlook. The Orient Express were one hit wonders, but what a hit. That '91 tag team match is as good a tag team match as you're ever going to see and it's one of the best matches of the 90s. Kato had a lot of chemistry with Michaels dating back to their tag work in Texas and it really showed in this match where they were able to get so much without going overboard. It's a shame they didn't achieve too much success after this. I know I disqualified the Rockers for barely making it into '91, but the Hart Foundation made it onto my list because they were bigger stars, competing in more important matches and went onto exist again in another fashion in '97. It would take 14 years for Michaels and Jannetty to put their differences aside, even Bret got over the Screwjob quicker than that! They were a dominant tag team, they completely dismantled the Bosheviks at Wrestlemania VI before having an all-time classic against Demolition at SummerSlam 1990. They were a quality team and it's only Bret's ambition that prevented them from being the greatest tag team of all-time. There were so many Owen Hart tag teams I had to ignore in order to pick the British Bulldog/Owen Hart combo. As a Nitro fan, I thought Camp Cornette was one of the sorriest excuses of a faction, especially by the time the nWo came around. At one point I even thought the Dungeon of Doom could eat their lunch, Owen would have had his work cut out keepin up with the Leprechaun. With that said, as much as I didn't like seeing a Looney Tunes character headlining the show, Cornette to his credit is amazing at putting tag teams together and Owen/Bulldog were brilliant. Again, like Michaels, Bulldog worked better in the tag team environment where he could concentrate on a role and have somebody else pick his spots. There were few performers better than Owen in the 90s and so they had a run together which was filled with amazing matches. '97 in particular is a highlight and their matches both as a tag team and against one another are some of the best you'll see in that decade. It's a shame Cornette could not emulate that success with Bodacious Bart and Bombastic Bob.
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Post by Baker on Jan 20, 2018 5:40:48 GMT
Big PeteActually don't remember the Quebecers/Headshrinkers match. I slept on the 'Shrinkers back in the day. Only thing I really remember them for is the Steiners match with a cool finish from Wrestlemania IX. Just watched the last few minutes of Quebecers/Shrinkers on Youtube. Big pop for the 'Shrinkers win. The bumbling Quebecers always accidentally hitting, or bumping into one another (which was kind of their thing), comes back to bite them this time around. Maybe I'll watch the full match tomorrow. And to once again be That Guy, the Rockers actually lasted until late 91-early 92. The Barbershop Window incident was taped in December '91, aired in January '92. The New Midnight Express were beyond salvation. Not even the great James E. Cornette could make chicken salad out of that dumpster fire.
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Post by Shootist on Jan 20, 2018 6:42:03 GMT
I had trouble early on ranking Billy Gunn but he actually got up to a respectable number 36 on my list after being a near cut. He just had too much longevity starting with the Smoking Gunns all the way through to DX to ignore. Also finding success as a tag team specialist and a single helped his cause and while annoying he managed to transition well as a member of DX.
Bossman was number 32 on my list. Being a Hogan buddy and having solid midcard feuds with Bobby Heenan, Da Mountie and Nailz was a nice start to the decade. Coming back and putting a more realistic spin on his gimmick for the Attitude Era increased his standing while also being a part of Vince McMahon's war against Steve Austin. Also having a Wrestlemania match with Undertaker and one of the more memorable segments in Smackdown history put the cherry on top. Combined with his WCW run one of the finer midcard careers to come out of the 90's.
Sgt. Slaughter was number 30 on my list as he was also in the same cluster as fellow Hogan baddy Earthquake. Sarge was much more despised and actually won the title which separated him from his contemporary. His "I Want My Country Back" vignettes seemed endless and by the time the face turn was complete Sarge was at the end of his rope. Still though the lore of WWF having to change Wrestlemania venues because of how hated he was and being the last great Hogan feud of the WWF era leaves him in good standing.
Ken Shamrock may not have reached his full potential but he was still enough of a ground breaker to crack my top 25. He was a perfect addition to the roster who could incorporate UFC elements for a more realistic presentation. His matches with Owen in the Lion's Den and Dungeon still hold up today. He also got the best out of the Rock and had a fun feud with Steve Blackman. His run petered out though as a member of the every growing Corporation, had he been a little younger and had more of the company behind him he could have been right up there with Austin and Rock.
Ted DiBiase's singles run in the 90's was nothing really to right home about. Mired in a feud with Virgil hardly set the world on fire but he got a shot in the arm teaming with IRS after months of an aimless career. For a time they were the top heel team in the company, even feuding with Hogan and Beefcake before an injury ended DiBiase's in ring career. Due to his time being cut short and not doing much outside of tag teams he go to number 43 on my list.
I missed out on the Dudes, pardon my bluntness but from this outsider's point of view it just seemed like a way for Shawn and Diesel to jerk each other off putting the shaft to the rest of the roster.
The Headshrinkers were number 9 on my tag list. While not as great as they were with Paul E in WCW they were a serviceable heel team that were a surprise success as babyfaces. Getting Capt. Lou back out of the mothballs and adding Barbarian helped as well.
Missed Owen and Yoko and early Hardys were jobbers until catching fire late in the decade. I first remember seeing Matt Hardy as Surge on the PWI 500 for a random factoid.
The Orient Express were always a hoot to watch but were also rans among heel tag teams. Too bad they weren't treated a little more seriously.
X-Pac and Kane were actually a tolerable odd couple pairing that worked well in that time and place.
I'll just comment on the more interesting supplemental names...
The biggest thing I wanted to address was being the lone vote for Mike Tyson. He truly was the guy that turned the WWF's fortunes around and he should have his ass kissed by McMahon to his dying day. Landing the most controversial sports figure in the world during the most controversial time in his career was a god send for the WWF and should never be under estimated. Considering all the options available for non-wrestlers he is kind of a deep cut but the impact he left set the WWF up for nearly the next decade.
I still think Todd Pettengill was some sort of sick fetish project of Vinnie Mac's to have a surrogate son. God that guy (and his resemblance to Vince) creeped me out.
I'll do the next batch and possibly some stragglers from the first batch tomorrow.
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Post by Big Pete on Jan 20, 2018 14:56:51 GMT
I'll do a big wrap up post when the countdown is finalised but for now I want to dive into these latest picks.
Billy Gunn - 30s sounds about right for Billy. I had him at 36 on my list due to his role in two ace tag teams. While I didn't think he called many great matches, his execution was good for a guy his size and like Razor could work with anybody. The '99 push is interesting because it gave him a spot on this list, but capped him in the 30s because it didn't pan out. I just thought the timing of it was off. They were already pushing one break-out star of D-X in Triple H, you can't have two, especially when one is a heel. The other just ends up coming across like a lackey, which Gunn did and then he got buried in one of the all-time greatest promos by The Rock. In fairness to the WWF, they had planned to push him much earlier in January, but Billy screwed the pooch in the lead up to the event.
Big Bossman - Finished exactly where I had him on my list. Bossman was the biggest workhorse on the roster in the early 90s, working more matches than anybody and being pushed well in his new babyface run. Years later he returns and is given an absurd push right off the bat. Despite being largely irrelevant in his final two years in WCW (his most memorable moment was attacking somebody with a bicycle on the first episode of Saturday Night in '97), Bossman was pushed as Vince's personal security and was set to begin a program with Austin until he missed his spot. I don't believe Austin ever gave an official date, but I get the feeling it was Rock Bottom '98 or something along those lines which was supposed to bleed into the Rumble. Instead, Bossman was largely the forth wheel in a lot of live event 4-way main events and mostly worked as a garbage wrestler. At the time, Bossman was largely considered the worst worker on the roster and although he had plenty of stinkers on PPV (Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania and Unforgiven), he was one of the most over heels in the roster. As ridiculous as the Big Show program was, Bossman's promo work was brilliant and turned what should have been a lameduck angle into something we still talk about to this day.
Sgt. Slaughter - As much as the WWF wanted him to be the biggest heel in America, Sarge's push fell flat and signalled the end of the boom period. He still won the WWF Championship and main evented Wrestlemania which puts him in exclusive company but I think it's some of Sarge's worst work. He really didn't have much of a run after that, they used him to put over Nailz and outside of the odd match here and there he was more of a authority figure than wrestler.
Ken Shamrock - The 90s weren't kind to Shamrock. If he had have come to the WWE in 2001 or later, he would have been one of the biggest stars on the planet, but nobody gave a damn about the UFC when he first entered. They still tried to make him a star, but they just didn't get it and it seemed like he constantly found himself facing off against guys with even less personality than him. The only exception was The Rock, but because you couldn't buy The Rock beating him at the time, they'd have Ken constantly do stupid shit to lose. That Wrestlemania XIV match is one of the biggest burials, only to be topped a year later with that awful Ryan Shamrock storyline. I could see people rating him highly for his late '97 to early 99 work but to me he's such a wasted opportunity.
Ted Dibiase - I tend to agree with where we've rated Ted. He was one of the biggest stars in the company and was constantly involved in some of the biggest rivalries in the company taking on the likes of Jake, Dusty and Virgil. Then later on he forms one of the more successful tag teams with IRS and they're one of the biggest attractions in the company before it runs it's course. Later on he plays a role in turning Razor babyface and put Kid over before he went to AJPW. His later stint as a manager didn't hurt his stint either. Dibiase had a real eye for talent, bringing in the likes of the Undertaker and Austin. Is Dibiase the real genius of sports entertainment? He's a trillionaire for a reason.
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