Get in early before the later models unionise and demand hybrid work.

Jun 6, 2023 10:33:21 GMT NATH45 said:

Not in our lifetimes.

People have tried doing 3D printed houses and it is expensive.
I have also seen robot hamburger restaurants that don't work. By the time you make the ingredients repeatable enough that the robots can handle them, you have more than lost any savings in labour.

Ins why on industries like mine, automation is more about custom machinery for specific tasks rather than a robot trying to engage with previously designed for human tasks.

Already with power tools the game has been changed in construction.
I can run nearly all day on less than a handful of Milwaukee batteries.

May 31, 2023 15:07:36 GMT @ness said:

Plus isn't dine in mostly for boomers and large family get togethers anyway? Figured younger generation prefer fast casual.

No, there's still a market for sit down meals. Brunch places everywhere.

I think we're going to see a drop off in family-owned fast casual style restaurants. They're hard work with very low profit margins; many parents don't want their kids to take over but rather get a cushier office job with actual days off.

The low-cost options like fast food joints and franchises like Applebee's are here to stay, I think, along with high end fancy steakhouses and such but the price range in the middle is in real danger of closing out. In order to make it worth their while, they'd have to charge prices that push their restaurant food into an occasional splurge.

Jun 6, 2023 4:13:11 GMT c said:

It is unreal how many different groups are on strike right now. Everyday reading about another group striking. Hollywood on strike. Journalists on strike. Ports on strike. Civil servants on strike. People at smaller companies striking with a new strike starting almost daily.

Seems people are once against discovering the power of unions and this will be the decade of workers. And this is a bell that will not be easily unrung, as the striking workers are routinely seeing success, leading more to unionize.

And talk of trying a general strike is starting again, but unlike in the past, many are taking it seriously as now it is feasible.  Not happened in 100 years, but occured in very similar times.

I don't see it, though maybe I'm just not reading the right arguments.

IMO strikes should have SMART (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-based) goals. 'Strike until [insert boss] is fired' is specific. 'Strike until we writers negotiate a fair deal for streaming residuals and various guarantees re: AI' is specific.

'Strike until income inequality is reduced significantly' is not specific at all. Strike against which business? Who will represent the workers in negotiations? How much reduction is significant? If 17 of the top 20 CEO's agree to a massive pay cut and there are 3 holdouts is that good enough to conclude the strike? Who determines this?

See general strike talk in socialist spaces and mainly in the retail and service areas that lack real unions. If they do it, they will ask for solidarity.

But that is the problem ultimately is a meaningful target. The people that do want to strike though, will do so out of pure spite.

This is all really people can do though so long as money is speech and it is ok to speak for an unlimited time to congressmen for votes. So they will use the tools they can, strikes, to try to force change. Well or eventually start rioting European style once they realize that chance through congress by the majority is impossible.

Jun 7, 2023 2:38:56 GMT c said:

See general strike talk in socialist spaces and mainly in the retail and service areas that lack real unions. If they do it, they will ask for solidarity.

But that is the problem ultimately is a meaningful target. The people that do want to strike though, will do so out of pure spite.

This is all really people can do though so long as money is speech and it is ok to speak for an unlimited time to congressmen for votes. So they will use the tools they can, strikes, to try to force change. Well or eventually start rioting European style once they realize that chance through congress by the majority is impossible.

Show me the end game, what does the world look like when we get there?
Is equality enough, or do they want equity?
Who is going to tell every day workers that equity will see more people paid less than are paid more?

We have a new bill in Australia called equal pay for equal work which is essentially industry wide, nation wide awards. You can't get paid more for experience or skill, it just ties everyone to the worst worker like an anchor.

End game is to undo the Trump, Bush and Reagan era tax cuts. That is it right now. Rest will sort itself out afterwards.

40 years of GOP tax policy as predicted bankrupted the US and lead to record debt, while primarily benefiting the rich and causing out of control inequality.

But moving tax policy back to what it was in the 1950's would make us socialist state just like the US in the 1950's was the GOP is claiming.


And the equality that most of us socialists want is the wealth gap to be average to 100x.  So the richest should only have 100 times the wealth of the average person, with strong social support for the poor that cannot work. 

Industrywide we would settle for x to 50x, so the CEO only paid 50 times more than the entry level worker.  In the US this number is over 500x and growing as CEOs expect 10% to 20% pay increases year over year, while workers get 6%.  Unless you are a worker who left your job, as that normally get you a 15% increase on average at your new job.

And I know this could never work as CEO's will just not be motivated anymore as having 100 times the wealth of the normal worker is just not enough to motivate these people.  I am find with them finding other careers though.

So return to work resulted in the US as a whole becoming less productive, and no longer rising as it did for the last 50 years until COVID hit. Reason for the loss of productivity is that workers are completely demoralized and no longer believe they are rewarded for working hard.  The high rate of job turnover means company's need to constantly train up new employees.

Red states still remain the least productive states outside of Texas.  Seems people who believe you need to just man up and work hard, are still not working very hard themselves.  

The cost of the productivity loss is about 10 trillion dollars.

Local cancer clinic is likely shutting down after every single doctor they had last week quit. Corporate policy was pushed on the clinic trying to push some new policy on them reducing time off and lowering their expected yearly pay increases. They were told if they disagreed they could leave but the companies was not budging. So they all left.

Doctors got new jobs rapidly after in the Yale and Nuvance systems, and the clinic now cannot fill the spots and the office is shut down indefinitely while they now try to find 8 oncologists in one of the most competitive oncology markets in the world. Parent company basically has no cancer ward now either until they get doctors, and they are regional, so cannot transfer them from elsewhere.

Like the ultimate find situation.

Jun 7, 2023 7:42:53 GMT c said:

End game is to undo the Trump, Bush and Reagan era tax cuts. That is it right now. Rest will sort itself out afterwards.

40 years of GOP tax policy as predicted bankrupted the US and lead to record debt, while primarily benefiting the rich and causing out of control inequality.

But moving tax policy back to what it was in the 1950's would make us socialist state just like the US in the 1950's was the GOP is claiming.


And the equality that most of us socialists want is the wealth gap to be average to 100x.  So the richest should only have 100 times the wealth of the average person, with strong social support for the poor that cannot work. 

Industrywide we would settle for x to 50x, so the CEO only paid 50 times more than the entry level worker.  In the US this number is over 500x and growing as CEOs expect 10% to 20% pay increases year over year, while workers get 6%.  Unless you are a worker who left your job, as that normally get you a 15% increase on average at your new job.

And I know this could never work as CEO's will just not be motivated anymore as having 100 times the wealth of the normal worker is just not enough to motivate these people.  I am find with them finding other careers though.

I think every company board should pass a 100x rule in their company.
It is helpful to the culture of the company for the management to be getting income relative to the lowest paid workers.

The real thorn in the name of progress and the demoralization that you write about is that Unions will not accept performance based bonuses.
Corporations in manufacturing and distribution would implement this in a heartbeat.

The Trade Union movement claims to defend the workers, but they actually only support ideology, the primary one being "Solidarity"
It is crippling so many businesses when you say the best worker and the worst worker must get paid the same, this is what destroys morale.
Our idiot government wants to take this away from the Unions and make it actual national law.
Meaning wherever you work and no matter how good you are, you will get paid the same as the worst worker in the shittiest place.
This is fundamentally screwed.

The only people advocating for this are people who are lazy or those looking for a trojan horse to introduce UBI.
Nobody can legitimately think it is a good idea.

In the US that talk is considered socialism. And no one would want to do jobs our right claims that have any form of income cap. Even mod democrats are against any form of pay caps.

Outside of some megaunions here, most unions get the workers more cash and better benefits. Here unions only oppose performance based bonuses, as in the US only execs traditionally receive this. If it applied to normal workers, unions would support it provided it did not reduce the base rate.

But here we got rid of performance based bonuses or piecewise pay because it was found you save cash by paying a low rate daily, which then shifted over time to hourly.

Wasn't pay flat under communism? Very, very few here even in dem socialist circles support flat pay. More support UBI than would accept flat pay by title for labor. I been following the push for it, but I just do not even see Aussie Labor getting the support to pass it. And should it pass, the second they lose power it will be one of the first things to change.

Also if Same Job, Same Pay does pass in Australia, you will see suddenly companies massive diversify their job offers and restructure to reward the best employees and punish the poorest within each old job. Give each tier one additional minor task and a new name or even numbers as is common in the US.

From what I read no one outside of people raging about this believe when it is passed that everyone will actually be paid the same, and that people will progress through titles over time getting paid more, while those who suck simply stay at the base level. The titles will be linked to the pay. Which gives employers leeway to determine within a tiered system how much people are getting paid.

And in the end, this will give the employers more power as they lean on this to deny raises and promotions, and tell candidates when hiring this will be your salary take it or leave it, no negotiation.

IMO labor did not think about how this will get creatively twisted into an advantage to employers.  Everyone talking about that shitty guy now getting paid as much as the best guy, but they assume the best guy's salary is the default.  Not the other way around, with everyone getting paid as much as the worst employee would be, and sorry hands are tied now, cannot discriminate.  

Framed like that, I bet the US corporations would love this.  Telling people sorry cannot pay you in Cali more than I would pay in Mississippi, and seeing state minimum wages be all considered now unconstitutional due to inferring with federal law.

///

Also in the details of that law, people will need to be paid the same min rate.  You can some more than others so it is not a true flat rate, and the worst employee will not be same as the best employee as you can pay a performance bonus essentially.  As it stands it is a bad law since you can just set your rates at min wage, and pay more as you see fit, negating the spirit of the law while following the letter of it.

Jun 9, 2023 3:06:10 GMT c said:

In the US that talk is considered socialism. And no one would want to do jobs our right claims that have any form of income cap. Even mod democrats are against any form of pay caps.

Outside of some megaunions here, most unions get the workers more cash and better benefits. Here unions only oppose performance based bonuses, as in the US only execs traditionally receive this. If it applied to normal workers, unions would support it provided it did not reduce the base rate.

But here we got rid of performance based bonuses or piecewise pay because it was found you save cash by paying a low rate daily, which then shifted over time to hourly.

Wasn't pay flat under communism? Very, very few here even in dem socialist circles support flat pay. More support UBI than would accept flat pay by title for labor. I been following the push for it, but I just do not even see Aussie Labor getting the support to pass it. And should it pass, the second they lose power it will be one of the first things to change.

It is considered socialist here to, but we have quite a left wing government at the moment.
The mega-unions are completely  and totally uselesss.
I know this well, I was a trade-union member.

Rather than advance the rights of the worker they want to engage in turf wars with the elites.
They could be at the forefront of manufacturing excellence pursuing education and skills for their members.
Instead they defend their stupidest and laziest members from dismissal.
As a result manufacturing all over the West is in steep decline... Look at Detroit, what happened there?

Governments ran protection rackets for US manufacturers with tariffs.
This allowed the companies to get lazy and the unions got demanding because they had no imperative to control their prices.
Meanwhile companies in Asia like Toyota just got better, more efficient and higher quality until they could pay the tariff and still be cheaper and much much better.

What killed Detroit was the gas shocks pushing Americans swapping to foreign cars that offered far better MPG. US cars all focused on large, heavy cars focus on power and had to eat gas like crazy as a result. Just wrecked the auto industry as they refused to adapt to compete until it was far, far too late.

Everyone blames the unions, but it was lack of demand for American cars and part of a trend of the US products just not being what consumers wanted, leading Americans to prefer Japanese brands, that killed American manufacturing.  

Jun 9, 2023 4:24:32 GMT c said:

What killed Detroit was the gas shocks pushing Americans swapping to foreign cars that offered far better MPG. US cars all focused on large, heavy cars focus on power and had to eat gas like crazy as a result. Just wrecked the auto industry as they refused to adapt to compete until it was far, far too late.

Everyone blames the unions, but it was lack of demand for American cars and part of a trend of the US products just not being what consumers wanted, leading Americans to prefer Japanese brands, that killed American manufacturing.  

That is a very narrow-minded view of the world, the gas crisis was years in the making but the US Auto industry continued to dictate what the US market was going to get, because they didn't have to compete with the rest of the world.
It is not only gas but leaf springs, drum brakes and generally death trap cars.

Without competition you get stagnation.
It was the Japanese and their Lean Manufacturing continual drive for efficiency, quality and features that decimated the US market.
You should watch some documentaries on what they designed in manufacturing, it was brilliant.
I still can't walk through a factory without someone bringing up KANBAN or some other Japanese acronym.

It was the gas shocks that really opened a market for the superior Japanese cars in the late 70's. Growing up in the 80's most American cars did not have good reps. The classics kids wanted, but otherwise I remember the Japanese shit being what people wanted to buy. Most families had a rusting American car in their driveways.

Know about Kanban and Kaizen. We studied it in my Evaluation class when we had a Japanese evaluator come in for a class and lay out the systems and how they are constantly tested and evaluated. Very cool stuff. Working to optimize a lean system was one of the potential career paths for my degree. Asians I guess love American evaluators. Which is funny, as Americans like Asian ones because they are trained in these systems.

But yeah Japan's lean model, allowed them to outprice or out feature America shit, while we failed to adapt, and in the end lost sales crippling a lot of our industries. To compete they had to move overseas, which then ended up costing quality. America used to be built to last, and buy once for life. Now it is overpriced and shit quality since it is made wherever they can get cheap or child labor and do not care at all about quality control.

After the service industry rammed tipping down everyone's throats, tipping is now at a five year low and dropping. As shown in the other thread, it just got insane out of hand, and now people are just entering zero and moving on with no fucks given what people think.

Good. Let's slowly eliminate the entire concept. I don't have an issue with tipping I just hate this whole mandatory option thing. Build it into the price and if people stop eating there, so be it. Shit's already massively overpriced anyway.

Well that is where this is going, no more optional tips, and what would be tips added into costs. Which is what most want anyway. But some like the expectation of tipping, but the option to not tip at all and save cash.

Worker crunch gonna get interesting soon. Most LGBTQ people say they will not work in state that are attacking LGBTQ rights. 20% of the kids graduating college now are LGBTQ. Means the limited pool of college graduates, who are decreasing in numbers as well, gonna be harder to get in red states, and thus, make them worse places to invest in.

Can self train sure, but do you really want to self train your accountants, engineers, IT and legal teams?

Self train is another investment and companies don't do that anymore. They want you assembled right out the box...

Whole things imploding. Surely shaming and finger wagging will work though.

In house training is also the reason why college will still be required for many jobs. Every if 75% of the classes are useless, the other ones are vital to future employment. And crammed learning is not effective, so a job cannot just take someone and spend a month training them about a topic and expect them to retain the knowledge.

My area ultimately is statistical analysis and many people here are self-trained or crashed trained. In research, the one area you have to document and publically show the analyses you use, there is a massive crisis now because are using the wrong methods for analysis, that then produce misleading results. This means it is very likely that people who are self-training and entering the workforce are doing the same at jobs. And this is an area of literacy, so people not trained in analysis will likely not be able to tell they are full shit until things go wrong and money is lost, the system they are working on is fucked, or quality goes out the fucking window. Been shown in studies healthcare people do not understand analysis, as do legal people presenting analysis results to juries.

Classic example, mammograms. Doctors universally used to recommend all women 40 and get routine mammograms to look for cancer. If 1000 people get a mammogram, 7 will be found to have cancer. However 70 will get false positives, and 10 of them surgery they do not need, and the other 60 months of tests that ultimately show they do not have cancer. Which means they do more than good when universally used. And since universal screening began, there is no change in death from breast cancer screening despite all of the studies claiming how effective it is. The real variable of interest, remains unaffected. And these studies ignore that people who get a false positive in America walk away with thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills even with insurance.

UPS workers may strike. Taking a vote tonight. If they do, will start as early as six weeks. Will utterly fuck up the US supply chains and be one of the largest strikes in US history. 

Very expensive demands this time, the biggest being putting AC into 100k vans.  Pay and benefits also being fought for, but the AC's are the red line for them.

Jun 11, 2023 13:30:12 GMT c said:

In house training is also the reason why college will still be required for many jobs. Every if 75% of the classes are useless, the other ones are vital to future employment. And crammed learning is not effective, so a job cannot just take someone and spend a month training them about a topic and expect them to retain the knowledge.

My area ultimately is statistical analysis and many people here are self-trained or crashed trained. In research, the one area you have to document and publically show the analyses you use, there is a massive crisis now because are using the wrong methods for analysis, that then produce misleading results. This means it is very likely that people who are self-training and entering the workforce are doing the same at jobs. And this is an area of literacy, so people not trained in analysis will likely not be able to tell they are full shit until things go wrong and money is lost, the system they are working on is fucked, or quality goes out the fucking window. Been shown in studies healthcare people do not understand analysis, as do legal people presenting analysis results to juries.

Classic example, mammograms. Doctors universally used to recommend all women 40 and get routine mammograms to look for cancer. If 1000 people get a mammogram, 7 will be found to have cancer. However 70 will get false positives, and 10 of them surgery they do not need, and the other 60 months of tests that ultimately show they do not have cancer. Which means they do more than good when universally used. And since universal screening began, there is no change in death from breast cancer screening despite all of the studies claiming how effective it is. The real variable of interest, remains unaffected. And these studies ignore that people who get a false positive in America walk away with thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills even with insurance.

A college will probably do quite well when it invents a Non-BA Degree that is something like the Advanced Diploma in getting things done in the corporate world.
No BS and a very simple course on:

Business Communication
Basic Economics
Project Management
Problem Solving
Admin
HR into
MS Product Suite

I read a hilarious take the other day is that one of the greatest hurdles to Gen Z getting started in business is that that they have no idea how folders and file trees work in Windows.
It is a generation who has 90% worked via iPhone or iPads or curated installation experiences like Steam.

I also learnt that I am Xilennal, which is why Gen Y and Z should fear me, for I know the POWAH! of the DOS PROMPT C:/>
If that is the case it kind of means the future of Linux is not bright, which is sad because I do love some Terminal and I would like to see Windows face a threat.
Whoever gets the OSX style flavour of Unix onto the x64 platform for mass consumption could do well.
Pop OS looks interesting...
</Ramble>

That literally is a Associates Degree. It is considered worthless to companies.

Also Gen Z knows how to use computers. What they do not understand is why they use the terms folders and files. Then again most people do not why they are called that or what a folder of punchcard files is.

In grad school I spent about 100 hours watching gen z students interact with a computer, and every one of them navigated the folder and file system with ease.

Reading the article almost everyone is talking about using the university network.

Lets save I wanted the notes for my course. My nav path was something like this.

J:schools\education\professors\greene\course\cognition\Fall\2018\2018CogWeek3.doc

And those folders are not exclusive, so you will have J: professors, J: schools\course, and things that, which lead to deadends. And access to drives changes depending on which network you are on, so something access to the J drive material you will have to use the D drive. And my favorite, that entire structure can be change at random reordering things when IT does random shit to reorganize.

So yeah, it is not Gen Z does not under what folders and files are, they do not under this overly complicated system that universities develop without someone showing them how the structure works.  There is no introduction to the computer directories, you have a random teacher show you, or learn from another student.  The school itself does not bother to teach you though.

Old people have no idea about shared/cloud folders, they love to keep all their work locally to ensure they have out of date copies of everything.

Jun 13, 2023 2:18:20 GMT c said:

That literally is a Associates Degree. It is considered worthless to companies.

Also Gen Z knows how to use computers. What they do not understand is why they use the terms folders and files. Then again most people do not why they are called that or what a folder of punchcard files is.

In grad school I spent about 100 hours watching gen z students interact with a computer, and every one of them navigated the folder and file system with ease.

It is pointless because it contains the same percentage of waste as a BA degree, so there is even less of the good stuff.
I am talking about a course that focuses on getting workers ready for the workforce without the froth and bubble.

Jun 13, 2023 3:12:17 GMT @admin said:

Old people have no idea about shared/cloud folders, they love to keep all their work locally to ensure they have out of date copies of everything.

I had a customer take a factory down for 2 days because he decided backing up to the desktop was easier than backing up to the network share we set up.

This is getting worse with people working remote, when people had physical PC's they could boot from network and automatically store all their files on the server.

You're telling me, a system that young people have used their entire lives in some way, shape or form that exists as the basis across all platforms including online drives and cloud systems... Gen Z are struggling with?

A generation attached at the hip to a PC and Twitch account? A generation of content creators and influencers?

I use folder based OS on a cracked Mini Super Nintendo, and my 3 year has mastered navigation around this convoluted system (half of which appears to be in Russian) in weeks.

There's no story here.

Jun 13, 2023 5:08:03 GMT iNCY said:

Jun 13, 2023 2:18:20 GMT c said:

That literally is a Associates Degree. It is considered worthless to companies.

Also Gen Z knows how to use computers. What they do not understand is why they use the terms folders and files. Then again most people do not why they are called that or what a folder of punchcard files is.

In grad school I spent about 100 hours watching gen z students interact with a computer, and every one of them navigated the folder and file system with ease.

It is pointless because it contains the same percentage of waste as a BA degree, so there is even less of the good stuff.
I am talking about a course that focuses on getting workers ready for the workforce without the froth and bubble.

We do teach all that you listed in high school business classes.  Employers do not care about it though.  45 hours is not enough time to cover a range of topics like you listed in any depth.  Would only have 5 hours per topic with 8 topics, which ends up as 3 hours of direct instruction a week.  Just not gonna get anything except the most basic coverage of the topics with that little time.  And again, jobs do not care about the associates degree, which is 20 classes, so a single class will mean nothing to them.