There are gonna be a ton of lawsuits too post COVID draining districts educational funds as schools as a whole just decided to ignore some important laws about reasonable accommodations and disabilities that the supreme court repeatedly said you cannot ignore and schools literally just stopped teaching some kids with disabilities for the past two years or were teaching in "separate but equal" classes which were ruled illegal.

Also no doubt the Department of Education will want to see how bad we fucked kids up and want national norm based testing done and criterion based testing done across all grades. Which essentially means a month of testing that will need to be done to comply with laws. A few people in my cohort are already preparing the tests and the rollout plans and been working on them for over a year now.

Ed funding will be a massive issue come 2024 election. Right now there is a gentlemen's agreement to not reveal how bad kids are doing on national tests for college entrances compared to prior years. But by 2024 the four year graduation rate will tell us what we need to know about the kids who were hit with cancelled classes.

Jan 17, 2022 15:17:55 GMT c said:

Saturation was not what killed the middle class here, rather trickle down economics did and deregulation. Deregulation lead to several serious crashes in the stock market and housing markets that wiped out the savings of millions of Americans. Trickle down economics meant that as production increased and cost of living increased wages stayed frozen. They claim it was consumerism, but the excessive consumerism was at the top. It was changes that Reagan made to corporations, in particular allowing corporations to repurchase their stocks, that killed the middle class. Once they could repurchase their sales, the number most important thing to them was profit at all costs as this started the era of the corporated raider and hostile takeovers. All of the money spent on stock was money that used to be spent on better wages, keeping their employees happy or innovation. These days 60% or more of profits are spent on rebuying stocks, which is also why innovation largely stopped in the US entirely. Last year companies were rebuying stock at levels never before seen doing the fun merry go round of taking out loans to pay corporate expensive and using profit to buy stock, knowing the loans are at 0 percent interest. They can leverage their stock against the loans. This essentially allows them to buy stock with loans, a common practice the rich and corporations use to avoid taxes since stocks to the tax code have no value.

Particularly insidious about allowing corporations to buy back stocks, is it is a way for corporate leaders to turn corporate profit into personal profit.  Before corporate profits were kept separate from personal profits so the board could not directly benefit without approval from shareholders or getting taxed.  Now they dump all of the corporate cash into buying stocks, and take their pay in stocks, and they pay no taxes while their asset value increases.  Then they take loans leveraged against their stock holdings to pay their bills.

Suddenly the rich are no longer paying taxes and are incentivized to maximize profits and cut American labor costs.  Fast forward 40 years and suddenly the middle class is disappearing and tax revenue is dropping because no corporations or people are making profits after expenses since they are all leveraging assets for loans and technically not making any profit at all.

Sure there is a risk that the stock market crashes and they lose all their cash, but then they threaten to shut down the businesses entirely unless the American taxpayers pay for their losses with corporate bailouts.  And we have to the tune of trillions of dollars bailing them out during all of the crashes over the years.

No, none of that makes any sense.
You have such a bias against capitalism, you are determined to see it as the enemy.
Trickle down economics damaged the US abify to collect taxation, but it did nothing to the middle class.

You want to pain the faceless corporations as the bogeyman but you cannot see the truth, that the US middle class slit their own throat.
You cannot switch your spending away from US products to cheap imports and not expect it to hurt the performance of American manufacturing companies.

The single greatest power the US public has is not their vote on election day but how they spend their money.
It's where everyone is an absolute hypocrite and full of shit as people blog at Starbucks on their mac book about occupy wall Street.

You think people are weak and pathetic and need a socialist government to make decisions on their behalf.
I don't think they're weak and pathetic, I just think they're stupid and hypocritical and such is their right.

No, literally the death of US manufacturing goes to back to stocks and The New Deal. Following the collapse of many old corporations and the bankruptcy of many top corporate leaders the New Deal created a new wave of corporate leaders that went deep into American manufacturing using stock offerings to get started. As long as the board controlled the majority stocks things were groovy and manufacturing boomed in the US giving everyone white picket fences and nice houses.

Like most things American they did not really plan for the future. Fast forward to 1960. Now elderly board members did not want to spend the rest of their days dealing with the business, they wanted to retire. But they had no real good way to leaving. So now a group of investors figured out that if they took on investors or debt they could make these founders and board members offers, which when coupled with a moderate investment of open shares would give them control of the company. It was mostly small stuff but they laid out the blueprint for the leverage buyout.

Then Nixon's former sec of treasury took this the next step when Nixon slashed interest rates. He realized you could take on debt at low interest rates, buy companies, then sell their assets and physical goods and make profit. And thus the era of the corporate raider was upon us. As time went on they would realize that they could get competitors to invest, and things like the Barbarians at the Gate takeover of Nabisco happened. 2000 takeovers were done this way though in a decade with most companies being stripped.

To combat this, lobbyists pushed to get the stock buybacks started, and defending against this became vitally important. Companies were pressed to cut labour costs and divest in US labour and move to outsourced labour because they needed to reduce their share count or risk being bought out themselves. For founders, they did not wish to see all they worked to build be taken over then destroyed. For shareholders, a company that is taken over and stripped is worthless.

So manufacturing moved overseas. The cost was engineers were no longer on the floor with production. Stuff was designed in place, built in another, then sold in a third. Quality of America goods declined. Now we are not longer in history as most people on PW lived through this. We remember the classic if you want quality do not buy American stuff from childhood as so many products were higher priced and lower quality. Equally priced Asian and American goods would see Asian goods be superior. Then if you wanted American quality stuff, you bought the cheap Asian shit for a third of the price and it would suck just as much as American.

As the 80's and 90's went on, most manufacturing was stripped from America. By the time interest rates rose to stop the era of the leverage buyouts it was too late. The rust belt was already forming and companies became obsessed with stock buybacks kept coming. Today it is friendlier than the Barbarian era, but still if you do not have strong control of your stocks and your board, now instead of the Barbarians, you get your diplomats who offer to allow you to merge. How much stock you control is how much you get back when you "agree" to peaceful takeover. If you do not want a "peaceful" takeover then you damn well have an unbreakable inner circle and 51 percent of your stock.

Companies since the 80's era of corporate raiding and now the peaceful era of the friendly merge have had to cut labour cut and research costs to continuously buy back shares if they wish to exist a company. For some it is greed, but it is also demanded by shareholders to protect investments.

So yeah, this is a capitalist thing, because well, the entire cycle takes place to capitalist ideas playing out in the real world. And none of this above I think is really evil. It is just business and frankly I LOVE the history of this shit.

What I see as the enemy is when business has an unequal voice with our representatives as money is speech in America and corporations have more money than most people. We are a whisper in the ear of democracy they are a bullhorn. The people widely support most dem socialist goals by margins of up tp 80%. Even Trump wanted some of the things we want, but was told no by people in lobby groups. The US not paying more for drugs than India for instance was a pillar of what he ran on and the threats he got from the pharm lobby were either stop your executive order on this or we will end you in 2020 and have Biden repeal it. Majority feel the rich and corporations should not be less in taxes than they do in a given year. The child tax credit was immensely popular in red states. Biden's infrastructure bill is immensely popular when Senators present it as their own.

And yeah I think most people need protection because they are also stupid. The thing I want more than anything else is the Fairness Doctrine restated where news would have to fully cover an issue truthfully, without personal attacks and to separate factual news from political commentary. Repeal of this lead to the death of journalism as people do not know the difference between political commentary and factual reporting. Most people think Hannity, Tucker and whatever liberals actors are in vogue now are presenting news. They are not legally though and have no legal obligation to even be factual. So yeah people are stupid and need to be protected from exploitation.

Now, see, I DO see capitalism as the enemy. Because it is.

Late stage capitalism for sure is no longer beneficial to a society as it reduces to a most democratic government structures to oligarchy as they reduce free market capitalism for crony capitalism.

Also, like, *gestures to the world. To the poisoned water and the poisoned air and the poisoned land and the dying animals*.

They do not need an Earth. The rich plan to leave before the world is completely destroyed.  Most have crazy survival bunkers prepared incase of environmental collapse as well.

One of the hottest hidden industries right now.


www.cnn.com/style/article/doomsday-luxury-bunkers/index.html

The one funny thing is that Mars will almost certainly never be able to support life and the technology to make it do so is pure fantasy. So all of these rich dipshits are spending billions of dollars to fly to their deaths, with their last thoughts being of smug superiority that they've doomed us to clean up their mess right before everything goes tits-up for them.

We have no intention to colonize Mars long term. China will have a manned base on the Moon within 10 years.

Big picture for leaving the Earth right now is Europa. Vast amount of water. Tech is not there yet but China is really close to producing sustained fusion. Once they get that down, can turn the water into power by breaking the water into hydrogen then turning the hydrogen into helium which will also release oxygen as a byproduct.  Real hangup here is making the tritium production faster, but otherwise this tech is here.  Water and power creates food.  The real hangup is minerals to do engineering but China is also exploring the feasibility of asteroid mining robots.  

There is a blueprint to leave Earth forming. It will be a one way trip though.

Jan 17, 2022 12:43:35 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 17, 2022 12:27:07 GMT nazzer said:

iNCY , I can't read that. You have bastardized the word science in an attempt to make a metaphor. Colour me a scientist or something, but my Bachelor of Science majoring in chemistry just recoiled at everything you typed in the word of science. I just puked in my own mouth a little. Science =/= economics.

I'm saying the world can work a different way than that if we wanted it to.

Okay, so show me where it has successfully worked a different way? China? Cuba? Russia? Venezuela?
it's easy to wave your hand expansively and say 'There has to be a better way"

But what is it? Are you going to introduce more money into the system? or are you going to redistribute the money already in the system?
They are your two options and I am all ears if you have a way to do either without blowing up the economy.

There is a better way, it involves in creating a generation of innovators and creators and then creating the conditions for those people to succeed.
Of course such mechanisms are not fair...

It's weird how someone being rich is a big problem but someone making it in the NFL or NBA or the Olympics isn't... I mean isn't it all just unfair genetics at the end of the day?

Sorry my choices are engage in discussion, or return my 4 year scuence degree.... i cant do it. Enjoy your media driven education. Let me know when you gain humility and wish to admit you dont know what you dont know

If socialism and leftist politics were so ineffectual and doomed to failure, why does the sole purpose of the CIA seem to be to try and destabilize and undermine leftist governments that threaten America's imperialist stranglehold on the world? 

Also 

Jan 18, 2022 16:43:16 GMT c said:

No, literally the death of US manufacturing goes to back to stocks and The New Deal. Following the collapse of many old corporations and the bankruptcy of many top corporate leaders the New Deal created a new wave of corporate leaders that went deep into American manufacturing using stock offerings to get started. As long as the board controlled the majority stocks things were groovy and manufacturing boomed in the US giving everyone white picket fences and nice houses.

Like most things American they did not really plan for the future. Fast forward to 1960. Now elderly board members did not want to spend the rest of their days dealing with the business, they wanted to retire. But they had no real good way to leaving. So now a group of investors figured out that if they took on investors or debt they could make these founders and board members offers, which when coupled with a moderate investment of open shares would give them control of the company. It was mostly small stuff but they laid out the blueprint for the leverage buyout.

Then Nixon's former sec of treasury took this the next step when Nixon slashed interest rates. He realized you could take on debt at low interest rates, buy companies, then sell their assets and physical goods and make profit. And thus the era of the corporate raider was upon us. As time went on they would realize that they could get competitors to invest, and things like the Barbarians at the Gate takeover of Nabisco happened. 2000 takeovers were done this way though in a decade with most companies being stripped.

To combat this, lobbyists pushed to get the stock buybacks started, and defending against this became vitally important. Companies were pressed to cut labour costs and divest in US labour and move to outsourced labour because they needed to reduce their share count or risk being bought out themselves. For founders, they did not wish to see all they worked to build be taken over then destroyed. For shareholders, a company that is taken over and stripped is worthless.

So manufacturing moved overseas. The cost was engineers were no longer on the floor with production. Stuff was designed in place, built in another, then sold in a third. Quality of America goods declined. Now we are not longer in history as most people on PW lived through this. We remember the classic if you want quality do not buy American stuff from childhood as so many products were higher priced and lower quality. Equally priced Asian and American goods would see Asian goods be superior. Then if you wanted American quality stuff, you bought the cheap Asian shit for a third of the price and it would suck just as much as American.

As the 80's and 90's went on, most manufacturing was stripped from America. By the time interest rates rose to stop the era of the leverage buyouts it was too late. The rust belt was already forming and companies became obsessed with stock buybacks kept coming. Today it is friendlier than the Barbarian era, but still if you do not have strong control of your stocks and your board, now instead of the Barbarians, you get your diplomats who offer to allow you to merge. How much stock you control is how much you get back when you "agree" to peaceful takeover. If you do not want a "peaceful" takeover then you damn well have an unbreakable inner circle and 51 percent of your stock.

Companies since the 80's era of corporate raiding and now the peaceful era of the friendly merge have had to cut labour cut and research costs to continuously buy back shares if they wish to exist a company. For some it is greed, but it is also demanded by shareholders to protect investments.

So yeah, this is a capitalist thing, because well, the entire cycle takes place to capitalist ideas playing out in the real world. And none of this above I think is really evil. It is just business and frankly I LOVE the history of this shit.

What I see as the enemy is when business has an unequal voice with our representatives as money is speech in America and corporations have more money than most people. We are a whisper in the ear of democracy they are a bullhorn. The people widely support most dem socialist goals by margins of up tp 80%. Even Trump wanted some of the things we want, but was told no by people in lobby groups. The US not paying more for drugs than India for instance was a pillar of what he ran on and the threats he got from the pharm lobby were either stop your executive order on this or we will end you in 2020 and have Biden repeal it. Majority feel the rich and corporations should not be less in taxes than they do in a given year. The child tax credit was immensely popular in red states. Biden's infrastructure bill is immensely popular when Senators present it as their own.

And yeah I think most people need protection because they are also stupid. The thing I want more than anything else is the Fairness Doctrine restated where news would have to fully cover an issue truthfully, without personal attacks and to separate factual news from political commentary. Repeal of this lead to the death of journalism as people do not know the difference between political commentary and factual reporting. Most people think Hannity, Tucker and whatever liberals actors are in vogue now are presenting news. They are not legally though and have no legal obligation to even be factual. So yeah people are stupid and need to be protected from exploitation.

You have introduced the karma sutra of straw men here, you have woven various historical facts, misrepresented them and then conflated them with your ideology.

I'm going to set aside most of them, let's mention that stock buy backs have nothing to do with the down fall of the middle class.

Instead, let's choose one industry, the automotive industry. Tell me how crony capitalism has caused the downfall of the US rust belt and the automotive industry.
Hint: the problems are self inflicted.

Jan 19, 2022 6:30:06 GMT nazzer said:

Jan 17, 2022 12:43:35 GMT iNCY said:

Okay, so show me where it has successfully worked a different way? China? Cuba? Russia? Venezuela?
it's easy to wave your hand expansively and say 'There has to be a better way"

But what is it? Are you going to introduce more money into the system? or are you going to redistribute the money already in the system?
They are your two options and I am all ears if you have a way to do either without blowing up the economy.

There is a better way, it involves in creating a generation of innovators and creators and then creating the conditions for those people to succeed.
Of course such mechanisms are not fair...

It's weird how someone being rich is a big problem but someone making it in the NFL or NBA or the Olympics isn't... I mean isn't it all just unfair genetics at the end of the day?

Sorry my choices are engage in discussion, or return my 4 year scuence degree.... i cant do it. Enjoy your media driven education. Let me know when you gain humility and wish to admit you dont know what you dont know

Of course you don't engage, it's easier to pretend that money is a magical dragon controlled by a secret cabal of powerful white men intent on destroying the American Middle class.

Jan 18, 2022 20:22:00 GMT KITN said:

Now, see, I DO see capitalism as the enemy. Because it is.

So you don't believe that people have the right to choose and that a controlling body should be empowered to govern what is someone's free choice?

Death of America auto companies came from decreasing cash in R&D to increase profitability. Lead to cataphoric failures. Loss of R&D funds caused huge problems for all three big companies. Ford were catching fire, GM was caught lying about the moters they were using in cars and had problems with their diesel engines and Chrysler had constant recalls for safety malfunctions. Also the recall equation used in Fight Club became public knowledge, that companies would not recall unless cost of lost lawsuits would be more expensive than a recall. Why would Americans buy these cars when Japanese cars were safer and cheaper?

GM and Chrysler needed to be bailed out multiple times by the American people both declaring bankruptcy in the early 1980's. Ford survived but next market shock will likely kill the company as they are heavy in debt with a debt to asset ratio of 4. GM and Chrysler during the failures were forced to sell assets so Euro car makers bought various brands. Ford decided to cancel all passenger cars except for Mustangs to try to stay competitive.

In each case here, cause was not investing but simple greed that killed them. They cut corners heavily to max profit and people died as a result destroying consumer confidence in their products. American people should have let GM and Chrysler fail. Very likely Ford will be left to fail as Americans are sick of bailing out the auto industry.

Also what is funny about the auto collapse if you look at what REALLY killed the Detroit auto market was a corrupt union. The United Automobile Workers pushed for worker rights but mostly was there to benefit itself. It did not stop layoffs during the boom period or the 1973 oil embargo. Also the union were notorious liars, reporting management salaries as autoworker salaries so when people entered the workforce, they learned the hard way that pay was about 20% of the union promised them it would be, then the union blamed the auto plants for lying to them. They rallied people to strike, and then riot. This just made companies start to look elsewhere for a hub, and Alabama, Tenn and Georgia were more than welcoming to them and even helped keep unions out.

When black workers in the 50's realized they were being scammed they protested the union itself, and in the 80's Canada's auto workers left the union entirely.

Two years back many union executives were charged with racketeering, embezzlement, and tax evasion including two former presidents for essentially stealing millions from their workers taking settlements and kept most of the cash in the union instead of giving it to the workers.

Great article on the "golden" era.

www.smithsonianmag.com/history/separating-truth-myth-so-called-golden-age-detroit-auto-industry-180972139/


Again here, greed is at the heart of the problems. Which is why modern unions always fail. They no longer represent the people, but themselves as they are themselves businesses with profit in mind.

"Free choice through capitalism" is a fucking fallacy because everything in the world is basically owned by less than a dozen companies. There is no "competition", there is no "free market", it's a fucking scam. 




Capitalism has made the world worse for literally everyone but the ultra-rich and those who simp for the ultra-rich, who are exactly as miserable as everyone else who isn't rich, but they get a fucking boner from their misery and seeing their business-daddies amass ever-greater money and power. 

Late Stage Capitalism does not want competition, they want monopolies. They do not support hard work, they support corporate subsidies. They support supply and demand for the cost of their product, but whine when it applies to labor. They demand freedom of speech while trying to supress the free speech of their workers. They claim money is speech until someone speaks badly of them and they sue them for silence. They claim copying their stuff is theft, when they steal from other companies.

They are hypocrites is what they are. Capitalism is just people feeling that everyone should give them money.

Not going to front. I once made a false phone call saying there was hair in my Chef Boyardee thinking they'd send me a coupon book.

They literally sent me ONE $2 coupon in a fucking envelope.

They are just a small company, they cannot afford to be giving out free products. How will the executives be able to afford to eat dinner on their private yachts docked on their private islands if they were to give you more than $2 dollars of one of their products?

God Kid stop being so greedy and work hard like these executives do.  

What a great image for this.

We're eating canned spaghetti because we're not millionaires.

Jan 16, 2022 10:34:50 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 16, 2022 10:06:20 GMT NATH45 said:

I'm convinced c , is just taking the piss now.

You might be right.
I have travelled a lot and am familiar with different employment conditions.
As you know here we have a good society, but it maintained by controlling the spread of wages.
Heaps of my mates are on union jobs and the good workers cant get paid more because enterprise bargaining makes it illegal foran employer to pay anyone more than someone else.

That's the way it works here, high minimum wages but you have to do seven times the work of someone on the minimum wage to make 50% more.

I also think our university repayment rules are nonsense the way people don't have to repay until they earn a certain amount per year, creates full time students in dead end jobs.

That is absolutely not the case here in the States. Unions negotiate basically a new minimum wage but the company can pay you whatever it wants.

I, personally, made more than a coworker at a union shop for the same job when we were both there like eight years ago. (Didn't tell her that tho)

Jan 19, 2022 3:47:36 GMT c said:

We have no intention to colonize Mars long term. China will have a manned base on the Moon within 10 years.

Big picture for leaving the Earth right now is Europa. Vast amount of water. Tech is not there yet but China is really close to producing sustained fusion. Once they get that down, can turn the water into power by breaking the water into hydrogen then turning the hydrogen into helium which will also release oxygen as a byproduct.  Real hangup here is making the tritium production faster, but otherwise this tech is here.  Water and power creates food.  The real hangup is minerals to do engineering but China is also exploring the feasibility of asteroid mining robots.  

There is a blueprint to leave Earth forming. It will be a one way trip though.

This sounds batshit crazy tbh. Europa's temperature peaks at about -140 Celsius (-225 in freedom units). Planets and moons in the Solar System might be considered habitable, but under the definition of 'well something might be able to live there, maybe bacteria' but certainly not humans.

And anyone who takes a one-way trip out could never get to eat burritos again. Which is a glib way to put it, but billionaires are used to a certain caliber of lifestyle. Sure, they could flee the planet in a spaceship and continue to survive but at what cost?

The cost of never having to deal with the consequences of their actions, at least in their mind.

Jan 22, 2022 4:14:44 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Jan 19, 2022 3:47:36 GMT c said:

We have no intention to colonize Mars long term. China will have a manned base on the Moon within 10 years.

Big picture for leaving the Earth right now is Europa. Vast amount of water. Tech is not there yet but China is really close to producing sustained fusion. Once they get that down, can turn the water into power by breaking the water into hydrogen then turning the hydrogen into helium which will also release oxygen as a byproduct.  Real hangup here is making the tritium production faster, but otherwise this tech is here.  Water and power creates food.  The real hangup is minerals to do engineering but China is also exploring the feasibility of asteroid mining robots.  

There is a blueprint to leave Earth forming. It will be a one way trip though.

This sounds batshit crazy tbh. Europa's temperature peaks at about -140 Celsius (-225 in freedom units). Planets and moons in the Solar System might be considered habitable, but under the definition of 'well something might be able to live there, maybe bacteria' but certainly not humans.

And anyone who takes a one-way trip out could never get to eat burritos again. Which is a glib way to put it, but billionaires are used to a certain caliber of lifestyle. Sure, they could flee the planet in a spaceship and continue to survive but at what cost?

Current plan for the ultra rich is to stay in a converted nuclear bunker and just wait out climate disaster or die in luxury.  They have any other alternative they will take it.  There is no way the super rich stay on a dying planet though if any other option exists.  I assume people will literally just shoot themselves up into space in a private ship and float for 5 years or so until they die if things get too bad.


The surface of Europa will never be habitable, but enclosed structures on it can be.  The water can make heat through fusion and there appears to be a vast supply of it.  Almost every other option he have would require water to be imported.  This is why they want to terraform the Moon and Mars but the tech there may not be there in time as we really only did seriously work trying to figure out Venus before people stopped caring at all about this.  As for near Earth planets, we would need faster than light travel, which may not be possible and explain the fermi paradox.  

Jan 22, 2022 4:23:08 GMT KITN said:

The cost of never having to deal with the consequences of their actions, at least in their mind.

The type to pull up their ladder when they climb up has no qualms about dying in a spaceship vs. a dying planet.

OK this is just crazy. Groups of people work in healthcare company A. One of them applies to healthcare company B and gets offered far more money than they are making at company A. They tell healthcare company A about the new deal and healthcare company A tells them basically they are not worth the increase in pay or benefits so there was no counteroffer. They tell their cowards and 6 more of them apply at healthcare company B. Healthcare company A goes to court to block Healthcare company B from hiring them and the courts blocks them starting a job at Healthcare company B. Now they cannot start a job there until a replacement is found for them or more court action is taken. Given there is a healthcare worker shortage and competitors are offering better pay, it is not likely they will be replaced. Monday there is a longer hearing, but the employees are still expected at their old jobs. Whether they actually show up remains to be seen.

www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/


God what entitled brats those workers are thinking they can just quit a job without their boss's permission.

Corps really do control everything.

What gets more interesting is they already quit. Expected at the court hearing monday they will demand the court order that the 7 employees that quit are mandated by the court to return to their old jobs until replacements are found.