Living at home does make more sense than some pseudo ubi. When I did I certainly didn't stress bills and making a lot. Feels like we're moving back towards that multi-gen style of living. With prices the way they are everyone having a home and doing their own thing just doesn't match up to reality.

Home ownership for the masses,like the middle class itself, never existed until post WW2 Western society when the powers that be needed a new class of consumers to build their war ravaged economies

I am not sure it was ever sustainable, it only lasted as long as it did because we were able to earn western salary but buy products made in Asia.

The unemployment rate is near the lowest it has been since we started to record it. While corporations love to claim that no one deserves limited things, like housing, they are realizing this also applies to employees as there are more jobs than people to work them. And employees are leaving toxic work environment at the drop of a hat these days because often they have three offers lineup just as fast.

As for housing, home ownership was higher than it is now for most of US history if you look at the people who could legally afford houses. People love to include slaves as renters to make the numbers look very different. There were decades when people were straight out given land in the US for free.

What changed was the amount of homes not sold, but converted to rental units over time and the total removal of low income rental projects so they would have no little competition.

The rental market in the era of work from home will cause some industries and cities to collapse as people are priced out of living in cities, which means more and more rentals go empty and reducing supply of consumers to the economies of the cities.

///

Fun note from the return to the office movement. While management wants employees and middle management to return it is found they are not returning themselves, preferring to work from home. So employees also need to set up a second work from home setup in the office in case management needs to contact them from home.

In this list of fields facing mass quitting are youth sports level refs. 20% this quit so far this year with, another 60% saying this will be there last year. Violent parents being blamed, as like teachers, parents feel it is ok to send them death threats, and in many causes physically beat them on the field.

Unlike teachers more pay will not solve this problems.

Wonder at this rate if we will have public schools in the near future. Violence being protected political speech to most of the US is not going to have anyone lining up to take these jobs where such speech is so normalized at this point it is expected.

Kind of ironic that after fighting against armed security at schools, that school are considering it to deal with parents.

Home ownership in the US is reportedly 65% or there about, and has remained at the rate for the last 60 odd years. In 1956, it was 60%. However since, the Home Ownership Rate in the United States has averaged 65.25% from 1965 until 2021, reaching an all time high of 69.20% percent in the second quarter of 2004.

So spin it and suggest things are better or things are worse. Or easier or harder.. statistically, Home Ownership hasn't changed across 4 generations, and in spite of Millennials struggling with human interaction.

Prior to that, so from the turn of the century until the mid 1940s - The World saw a pandemic, 2 World Wars, a Great Depression and a Dust Bowl sweeping across the United States. So, the odds weren't exactly in anyone's favour.

Shitting on Millennials is sooo 2008.

People cannot ignore that a seismic shift in who owns homes is occuring. Rent back security groups have been aggressively buying homes and have over a 60 billion real estate share now, equatting to hundreds of thousands of homes, and the market is red hot with them fighting over new houses for their portfolios. People who wish to own a house now, need to compete against this market. Rent back groups will pay cash and over 20% market value. Currently 1 in 5 housing sales are done by these groups.

And this is a bubble market which will crash and the US taxpayer will spend billions to then pay these investors to not toss the renters out on to the streets.

Nope.

The homeownership rate is the proportion of households that is owner-occupied according to the U.S. Census Bureau. It's 65%. As per the previous data.

Good thing all Americans are expecting 38% raises year after year to be able to afford the payments that come from rapidly increasing home prices.

One thing that puts me off is the 20% down thing. At current prices a 30 yr mortgage is about what I'm paying in rent, of course we know the math goes to rent is the max and mortg. is the minimum so even then I'm kinda cut out of the market. And I'm barely scraping by with the rent price as it is. I signed a 2 year lease so I have until Sep 23 until I see an increase. Last time it was only 20 which is nothing, but if they add another 0 to it I dunno what I'm gonna do.

Well, good news Ness, it is only 12% down for most first time homeowners. That should only be 45k on average. So only one year salary. Get a second full time job and can afford that in no time. 24 usable hours in everyday, you do not really need to sleep do you?

Also get that dream house now, expect on average $2000 a month in payments.  Only if you get in before next year when that will likely raise to $3000 if the increases continue.

Come to think of it, @admin isn't paying me enough to keep PW active!

UNIONIZE!!! Lets show HR who is boss!!!

Imagine if every time back in the day KING KID got banned/warned and he demanded his steward be present!

He really missed his chance to become a Bill the Butcher style union boss. Those old gangs quickly become the classic political machines.

Pretty funny this is what boomers would say to anyone who made a similar decision...

Apr 25, 2022 5:13:52 GMT c said:

Pretty funny this is what boomers would say to anyone who made a similar decision...

This is such a nonsense, and a further dumbing down of society.
Society today: we want the freedom to choose what we put in our body 420 every day, let me choose my gender at 8yo, let me burn down the neighbourhood over BLM

But... Don't trust me to make financially responsible decisions about my future?
What a nonsense!!
I saw a good article the other day about the broken system of pushing everyone into college, we need to not measure people by their education. I say this as someone who did no college, so I am of course biased.
I cannot see how I could be better off than I am now financially if I had of some college, I am reasonably certain I would have been many times worse off.

Man just thinking if we could've put 100k in the market and let it ride for 20 yrs.

I love that we blame the kids who were pushed into college and not the system that saw the dollar signs.

And yeah we def need not measure people by their education. I have no problem seeing a doctor who did not get a medicine degree. I mean, you either can do surgery or you cannot, why should we rely on a system of gatekeeping to determines who should cut people open?

Apr 25, 2022 20:35:51 GMT @ness said:

Man just thinking if we could've put 100k in the market and let it ride for 20 yrs.

Well this is what banks been doing with hundreds of thousands of college students.  

Apr 25, 2022 20:55:21 GMT c said:

Apr 25, 2022 20:35:51 GMT @ness said:

Man just thinking if we could've put 100k in the market and let it ride for 20 yrs.

Well this is what banks been doing with hundreds of thousands of college students.  

Only the rich get to play with these rules. Borrow a million to buy a 5 million property is not allowed for us lowly commoners.

Financial Responsibility is probably one thing that isn't spoken about enough.

You take the 'cost of living' argument, but I'd counter argue that our expectations have greatly increased over the last 30 years, particularly when it comes to affording our single biggest overhead - home ownership. The expectations today for a lot of young people, particularly in Australia isn't a 3-bedder in an older part of town and potential for some renovations.. it's a new home, in a new estate with 4 bedrooms, a study, and separate dining, family, lounge and media rooms on a block the size of 2 Basketball Courts.

For those young people on a modest income lucky enough to obtain the finance, they'll work until they're blue in the face and thus, complain about the 'cost of living' despite the choice to have bought cheaper/older/smaller or more affordable.

Those who can't get the finance will complain, that it's too difficult to buy a home - but, to my point they're expectation is often unattainable.

That, and particularly with young working families, the overheads continue to pile on - new cars, boats, motorcycles, caravans, motorhomes, etc.. a promotion comes, it doesn't mean putting it into savings, or assisting with cost of living, it's a means to now seek finance for XYZ new toy.

So, for many life should be/could be quite comfortable if spending - financial responsibility was taken more seriously.

Personal finance should be mandatory in school. There's a lot of "life" that isn't taught. Certainly makes more sense than prereq humanities bullshit.

Apr 25, 2022 20:54:25 GMT c said:

I love that we blame the kids who were pushed into college and not the system that saw the dollar signs.

And yeah we def need not measure people by their education. I have no problem seeing a doctor who did not get a medicine degree. I mean, you either can do surgery or you cannot, why should we rely on a system of gatekeeping to determines who should cut people open?

We'll see, that shows what am utter intellectual snob you are. What part of my post said that doctor's shouldn't go to college? You always do this straw man crap.

Obviously, there are careers that require college education and there are those that don't.
What I am saying is that as a society we put value on people based on their academic achievement, when it is no great indicator of success in life.

I spend much of my life dealing with degreed people, they all think exactly the same way and it reduces the value of the degree when everyone is essentially the same.

If in the US it is very much an indicator of success as entry level unskilled jobs demand a 4 year degree. Not having a four year degree is like dropping out of high school was 40 years ago. Employers do not want to hire people who could not complete college. Likewise banks will not loan to small business owners who lack degrees, and if you do get a loan, you will pay more for the lack of degree as you are a higher risk to default.

And yeah everyone who ever attended college all think alike and only the uneducated are the truly free thinkers. We all understand what it like to be on the left The Yerkes-Dodson law curve where whatever you agree with is the most valid source of truth and expertise not requiring mentorship or guidance.

But we are entering a post-truth society so maybe facts do not matter. Covfefe for all!!!

For those student loans most will not be paid back anyway and most rating agencies do not use student loan data so end result gonna be the same eitherway.  Either end the illusion that most get paid off, or continue to let suckers pay them off who do not know how to defer them into oblivion.  

It is also ironic that Boomers used to always brag about not paying their students loans until this generation started to talk about doing the same.

Apr 25, 2022 21:44:51 GMT NATH45 said:

Financial Responsibility is probably one thing that isn't spoken about enough.

You take the 'cost of living' argument, but I'd counter argue that our expectations have greatly increased over the last 30 years, particularly when it comes to affording our single biggest overhead - home ownership. The expectations today for a lot of young people, particularly in Australia isn't a 3-bedder in an older part of town and potential for some renovations.. it's a new home, in a new estate with 4 bedrooms, a study, and separate dining, family, lounge and media rooms on a block the size of 2 Basketball Courts.

For those young people on a modest income lucky enough to obtain the finance, they'll work until they're blue in the face and thus, complain about the 'cost of living' despite the choice to have bought cheaper/older/smaller or more affordable.

Those who can't get the finance will complain, that it's too difficult to buy a home - but, to my point they're expectation is often unattainable.

That, and particularly with young working families, the overheads continue to pile on - new cars, boats, motorcycles, caravans, motorhomes, etc.. a promotion comes, it doesn't mean putting it into savings, or assisting with cost of living, it's a means to now seek finance for XYZ new toy.

So, for many life should be/could be quite comfortable if spending - financial responsibility was taken more seriously.

I love the articles about people who make $400,000 a year complaining they don't have any savings. Yeah, they live in Manhattan, lease two cars and rotate them every two years, spend tens of thousands on private school, go on multi-week luxury vacations, and go out to fancy restaurants all the time. Yeah, no kidding you're broke.

While everyone seems to think that is the vast majority of America that is not the case at all though. Most people have no savings as they simply do not make enough after rent to save. Not sure where the narrative that most Americans are pulling in six figures and living actual houses comes from.

And hear that @ness all you need is PW to teach you about finance and you can suddenly have that house of your dreams. Let put the financial genius of PW to work and get Ness that house.

If only I bought that mew cookie.

Also sure our non-Americans are the experts, but the reason the US even started to send everyone to college was because that was what our presidents and lawmakers promoted for 40 years since the At Nation at Risk report concluded Americans were falling behind in education due to our overall lack of college graduates. On both sides they said regularly if you did not go to college you would not have the 21st century skills needed for jobs. Employers and students reacted. Employers started to demand any level college so they would have these, as only the most unless employees would not have any college, and students went to school so they would not be included in that group of workers who no one wished to hire.

We were told constantly in school if we did not go to college we would not be hired at a good job, and we had commercials on TV talking about the same. And our private sector was in line. 2 years of college because the norm for almost all jobs, including manufacturing. So sure you could just not go to college, but you would be fucked. Most companies had policies that no one could be promoted into any leadership role down to supervisor without a degree.

As again you could open a business but banks saw people without 21st century skills gained in college as lacking the ability to run a business, so your rates if you got the loan would be higher. And they were right, as most would fail.

So this is the system that people are claiming students were stupid for going to college in. One where you could not be a supervisor at McDonalds without being in college in. One where everyone was saying passion and skill was not enough and you needed a degree to do what you wanted to. One where you see that degree requirements are being added to all jobs with only Charlie work, win wage, or sub min wage work being degree or certification free. We blame people who went into the system based on what our government and society was telling them they needed to do to be able to work in a job that would support a family. And few had the start up capital to just start a successful business as everyone assumes that every school student is capital of.

Do find it so weird that people outside of America too seem to be the ones so invested in opposing this. If our voters decide this is the good use of our tax dollars then what problem is it you? Besides you all offer free education at some schools and interest free loans in others. This is not a problem there because of your socialist policies.