Jun 8, 2022 8:38:21 GMT c said:

Easy way to a million is to go hard into math young and live modestly. Top talent headhunters will take math people and train them to a related job because many fields are so starved for math based talents.

Decade studying applied statistics and while I have a general documented mastery in the area and was consulted for it, the hard math statisticians do shit on levels I cannot understand and can see patterns near instantly in the numbers. Comparing to wrestlers I would be a jobber to their main event skills. I would make 70k mid career. They would make 150k and be my boss.

Not even close to the easiest way.
Still reading hours for dollars, you got to break the cycle to make it... Or be someone like a professional athlete who is paid obscenely for their time.

Easiest way that carries little risk and anyone can do. Not everyone is in a place to get startup cash, and all businesses are risky. Also math is future proof and unless things greatly change, will remain extremely high demand.  

Jun 8, 2022 20:35:01 GMT c said:

Easiest way that carries little risk and anyone can do. Not everyone is in a place to get startup cash, and all businesses are risky. Also math is future proof and unless things greatly change, will remain extremely high demand.  

What's risky is spending 4 to 8 years in college to get a degree that will not prepare you for a job that may or may not exist in a field wildly different from where you started your career.
You can start a business for a $100.




This is only a summary, but I recommend getting the book for people interested in a business.

Maybe, I'll put this here.

Quiet Quitting is a term and a trend that emerged in mid-2022 from a viral TikTok video. The philosophy of quiet quitting is not abruptly leaving a job but starting to do the minimum amount of possible work while keeping the job.

Quiet quitting is considered to be the exact opposite of "Hustle culture" (also known as "Grind culture"), where one's career development and generating more income always come first.

In a nutshell, it refers to workers – especially millenials and Gen Z – shunning hustle culture, and doing the bare minimum required for their job, instead of going above and beyond, and working overtime.

The movement has been driven by several factors, including stagnating wages at the same time as inflation and cost of living pressures soar, increased workloads and stress during the pandemic and incredibly low unemployment levels.

And I can certainly understand this. And to add something, people value their time. It's a wild concept, I know... work/life balance.

And, I've certainly experienced some of what has lead to this movement. I've been told in the past, and even recently to do essentially unpaid OT, because it shows you're interested or willing to sacrifice for the next stage in your career. I was recently challenged on wanting to be home by dinner time each night, like it was some sort of unattainable gold egg.

I hate the term because it reinforces the idea that conversations about working conditions and expectations are taboo and that workers have to suffer in silence. The pandemic has opened a great door for employees to demand a better, and more appropriate work-life balance, we should not be shamed into keeping quiet about these things again.

You're not quitting by doing the minimum, you're still doing the job.

That was a point I saw raised in a lot of articles on the topic - it's not quitting, it's just doing your job and not being prepared to do (what is often expected) unpaid or extra work at the expense of your wellbeing, time, etc.

I've always been against the " Hustle " culture, it breeds toxicity, and " wearing burn-out as a badge of honour " is not healthy.

There are a ton of articles on "quiet quitting." It is hilarious that jobs expect you to go above and beyond, but do not promote from within. This was big in game design as hustle culture was expected until recently, and when crunch hit you were expected to work 120 hour weeks without added compensation.

Jobs can have it either way.  Either reward people who going above and beyond objectively, or accept that people will do what they are contracted to do and not work for free beyond that.  Giving people yearly raises below inflation, hiring new people are higher salaries than you long term people make and promoting from outside only are things most corporations do in the US, so why the fuck should employees go above and beyond for them?

Also notice this comes as the US unionize at a rate not seen in 50 years.  One of the things union employees are fighting for is a set list of duties, that they are expected to do and if more are added that they be added with a pay increase to compensate doing more work.

When talking succession planning in my world - the old-schoolers will always praise the guys who " do the hours " as in, they do the extra (unpaid) hours and then criticise those who " just do their hours " 

And the argument could be made, the guys doing the extra hours are either unproductive and need to work beyond 40-45hrs each week to achieve a result, or the expectation is unrealistic in a 40 hour work week. 

Like all movements, if enough people are saying " no " to additional unpaid OT or unrealistic expectations around commitments and then setting boundaries - then it potentially becomes the standard. We have enterprise bargaining agreements for this reason. But to my point on succession planning - the business will just reward the 'above-and-beyond' employee as the perceived output is higher - or they're getting more bang-for-buck. 

The quiet quitting is not really about time. It is about duty. In the US if you are part of a two man team, and your coworker quits, you now are expected to your job and their job. And if you do it, then they do not replace that coworker. When I worked in the supermarket after a few girls left for college, produce took over the floral section and now we had to do the floral crap, in addition to the produce department. Pay was the same. When I worked in the aerospace lab, our receiving guy got promoted to a different site, so we were told that our jobs now included receiving items in, in addition to our allocation work. Again same pay.

What quiet quitting is a backlash against is people now saying no, you should refuse to take on more than you were contracted for. Companies want suckers though, guys who will do there jobs, and more, for the same pay. It is just good value. But now people are getting vocal that if you do this and are not rewarded for it you are a sucker, which is why all the reeing now in the media.

Should note in most places in the US working over 40 hours means you HAVE to pay time and a half. So companies generally ABSOLUTELY do not want you working over 40 hours. And of course most of these stories are about US labor because the media likes to pretend there is nothing outside the US.

////

Some companies in the US do succession planning but a huge part of why this all a thing now, is most actually do not. Someone leaves you dump their work onto whoever does the job closest to them without compensation. US has very rigid management standards as well, generally gating people by degrees. Two years, four years, then specialization or management is generally required. Corporate HR decrees it and the hubs have to follow it. So you can be the best worker at the plant, but do not have college, you can only be promoted so high. After 10 years you hit a concrete ceiling. In the US HR hiring practices are fucking horny as shit for degrees. Two guys making parts for an aerospace plant, the guy with the degree in puppetry will get a salary position while the one with no degree is stuck on hourly. Shit like that is super common here and makes no sense at all.

If jobs were really the harder you work, the more likely you were to get a promotion a ton of this antiwork shit would be dead. But they do not work this, and promotions in many jobs are becoming rare as many demand you hire outside for management and supervisor rules, instead of promoting from within to preserve worker harmony.

TL:DR - HR lives in their own fucking world, and everyone hates it, but we got to play their game because he cannot hang them from poles.

Related to this, 50 state teacher shortage in the US. Teachers have fucking had it and will not work for shit wages, while being threatened by state agencies and angry parents over culture war shit. Moreso, less people graduating with education degrees wish to teach so as more retire the shortage gets deeper.

The public school in the US is about to fail. Charter schools are doing a little better, but they do it by banning parents from interacting with teachers, and tell parents if they dislike what is being done at the school they are free to fuck off and will expel kids who parents become problems. Private schools have no issues with teachers, because they do not play this shit at all and never have.

To fill the void, there are now companies offering digital instruction to schools. These are teachers who will teach remote, provided they can teach freely and do not have to deal with parents or oversight boards. An assistant stays in the classroom with the kids, and deals with the parents. Apparently schools are rapidly buying out teaching slots for math and science because they simply either do this or have someone who is not suited at all try to teach.

Talked with my mentor and he thinks this remote education is going to be the future, since the shortage is REALLY bad and no one has a solution for. He edits the top education journal too, so he knows what people are suggesting. Options are private model or a public model done Florida / Arizona style where basically anyone who wants to teach can, do training needed.

Aug 23, 2022 0:36:34 GMT NATH45 said:

When talking succession planning in my world - the old-schoolers will always praise the guys who " do the hours " as in, they do the extra (unpaid) hours and then criticise those who " just do their hours " 

And the argument could be made, the guys doing the extra hours are either unproductive and need to work beyond 40-45hrs each week to achieve a result, or the expectation is unrealistic in a 40 hour work week. 

Like all movements, if enough people are saying " no " to additional unpaid OT or unrealistic expectations around commitments and then setting boundaries - then it potentially becomes the standard. We have enterprise bargaining agreements for this reason. But to my point on succession planning - the business will just reward the 'above-and-beyond' employee as the perceived output is higher - or they're getting more bang-for-buck. 

I am a bit torn on this issue.
My Tik Tok is full of this sort of whiney Zoomer BS and it is too much.

I will say that this middle management trying to compensate people with pizza parties to come in unpaid or do overtime or work through lunch is crap.
I am a long time DESPISER of middle management, in cases like this they are just trying to impress their bosses by hitting targets without the required number of people.

All of that said... SCREW THE LAZY!
A couple of times later I have been a bit pissed.
My daughters' school the crossing supervisor must be paid to 9am because on the dot she starts packing up even if there are little kids waiting to cross the road. If you cannot stay until 5 minutes past, then I would sack you.
I have been in stores where they complain to you because you want to check out at 4:55pm and they have already cashed out their till. Obviously they are only paid until 5pm but not my problem as a customer, if I was a manager I would sack for that.

This is where there is a line.
I meet so many people through my company who tell me "They're not paid to do that" when asked to do anything pretty much... It's such a crap attitude to have.
Whether or not it is correct, nobody ever advances any further with such an attitude.
I owe all my success (however modest) in business to grabbing every opportunity I was presented with as an employee whether I was paid more for it or not.
The more I learn the more my value increases.

The line has to be drawn thought because of how much bosses have exploited people. Look at that cashier checking out the till at 4:55. When my ex worked at dollar general they had to checkout at 9pm sharp. That was the time the store closed. She would often then have 40 minutes worth of work to do off the clock. This is in addition to the 15 minutes you have to show up early to attend a pre-work meeting that you are not paid for then clock in at 3pm. So you work an hour free for them each shift.

Dollar General paid 10 million in labor theft fees, but keeps this practice going.

General at most stores, near closing you want to shut down every till but one 10 minutes before closing to get the people counted and out on the hour. Then that one person remaining gets an extra 30 of pay after rounding. People always hate this but it is just good sense to have one person getting extra time rather than half a dozen people.

Jobs are contracts. You are contracted to do a set of tasks for pay. They want you to do more, then they need to modify that contract. And why would anyway agree to a contract with more demand for the same pay? I mean if a customer called you and demanded that you give them more shit for free on a contract you already fulfilled, you would be like fuck that. But when it is labor people always say that no the workers should give their bosses free stuff.

Aug 23, 2022 5:12:27 GMT c said:

The line has to be drawn thought because of how much bosses have exploited people. Look at that cashier checking out the till at 4:55. When my ex worked at dollar general they had to checkout at 9pm sharp. That was the time the store closed. She would often then have 40 minutes worth of work to do off the clock. This is in addition to the 15 minutes you have to show up early to attend a pre-work meeting that you are not paid for then clock in at 3pm. So you work an hour free for them each shift.

Dollar General paid 10 million in labor theft fees, but keeps this practice going.

General at most stores, near closing you want to shut down every till but one 10 minutes before closing to get the people counted and out on the hour. Then that one person remaining gets an extra 30 of pay after rounding. People always hate this but it is just good sense to have one person getting extra time rather than half a dozen people.

Jobs are contracts. You are contracted to do a set of tasks for pay. They want you to do more, then they need to modify that contract. And why would anyway agree to a contract with more demand for the same pay? I mean if a customer called you and demanded that you give them more shit for free on a contract you already fulfilled, you would be like fuck that. But when it is labor people always say that no the workers should give their bosses free stuff.

I wouldn't expect you to understand what I am saying.
If you cannot purchase goods at 4:50 then the store should close at 4:45 if that is not the case the employees shouldn't cash out the till until 5pm.
The fact that the store is advertised as open until 5pm but you cannot purchase until 5pm is because the understanding of the employees and the management are misaligned.
If I owned the store I would pay 8:45am until 5:30pm
If it is made clear to potential hires that they are paid 9-5 but the hours are 8:45 until 5:30 then agree and work the hours or don't take the job... But don't half-ass it and lessen yourself as a person.

Your analogy of contracts is correct.
But if you always do the minimum then you will always receive the minimum.
Additional effort isn't always rewarded, but advancement and promotion don't come without showing a capability to do more than you're paid for.
If you want a contract for more then you need to show yourself able to do more.

Even if the additional skills etc. are not rewarded in your current employment, you are adding value to yourself.
This is what the Zoomers and Millenials have forgotten.

I constantly go into factories and people look over my shoulder and tell me they want to do what I can do, but the company won't pay for them to do a course to learn it...
I always tell them the same thing, I am self taught by trial and error and with YouTube there is no reason anyone can't master new skills.

I think most people would happily do a few minutes of OT, if it meant still leaving relatively close to knock off time and there wasn't a demand to stay and do unpaid labour. I think we probably all do it, without realising it.

The point being, in many businesses and industries there is an expectation to work well in an excessive of a few minutes OT, many businesses unofficially will pressure or expect an hour or more a day. Or the culture within some companies might mean almost living and breathing the business 24/7 regardless of paid time.

When I started working for the retail giant I have been with for 13 years, the expectation was 1 hour of unpaid overtime everyday. Long story, short: they now owe $571 million in back payment. You can guess which one.

But it goes back to a point around changing priorities coming out of this pandemic. An article that did the rounds on LinkedIn recently highlighted, the companies that treat their team the best regarding work/life balance, care and well-being will be the ones to come out of this the strongest. Shock horror!

Retail Leadership particularly here has seen a mass exodus and it struggles to find talent despite some nice salary packages.. why? The expectations are unrealistic, or the business isn't prepared to pay you for your time, hence you will likely do a lot of unpaid OT. Retention is terrible, as new managers are hired, realise the expectations and leave when they're sick to death of working 60 hours a week, and getting paid for 40.

If you are paying for those 45 minutes then there is no real problem, that is how things SHOULD be done. But in most places, those extra hours are expected to be unpaid. In the US you can be fired for working an extra half hour and would be expected to punch out at exactly 5. Most people in these jobs in the US are worked at 30 hours, and if they hit 32 regularly, they would be entitled to benefits so jobs absolutely do not want them going over their shifts.

Advancement and promotion in the US due to computerized HR is no longer linked to work. It is linked to degrees and often jobs have stated policies to bring in rather than promote up. So you will not be rewarded for hard work. This is why so many are leaving jobs. To get a promotion you generally need to quit your current job. I have no idea how it got this fucked up, but here we are. To get ahead, it is advised to find a new job every 5 to 7 years, as you can leverage your experience into a higher position that you would not be qualified for at your current job. My mentor only got his chair when he got an offer for another college. Even then it was controversial, despite him being assistant dean, winning the early career award for our professional organization and editing the journal for our field. Some said they should have done a full search, in which he would have been beaten out by someone older who could bring in more money. But the school of Ed did not want to lose him and dug in and he got his chair.

In the US, unless you are going to open your own business, skills are meaningless to most jobs with certificates or degrees. Everyone applying for a job knows everything basically, and companies got sick of bringing in dozens of people who fail the hands on interview.

Zoomers and millennials just want their job duties laid out clearly, and if expanded on, for raises. It is not a matter of a small thing either. My friend handled a dozen accounts at her job, and when someone quit, she was given 8 more, with no pay increase. Her work nearly doubled, but her paid did not. She quit, and her work load was dumped on the two people who remained who each got their work increased by 2.5 times for the same pay. This is the shit people are fed up with. But this is common in the NO ONE WANT TO WORK ANYMORE culture.

iNCY, there's doing more to get noticed or be considered for a promotion and then there's being taken advantage of. And realistically your KPI performance and metrics should be the real decider on a promotion or advancement.

If you were say, a sales manager and you were paid to work 9am - 5pm, yet the boss said you needed to clock out at 5pm and work until 7pm everyday and it became the norm. That's not about going " above and beyond " that's about increasing an employees output by 20% and not paying for it.

Hustling and grinding as a small business owner or sole trader is an entire different beast, as you'd probably know better then anyone.

Some hilarious shit in business news today. Companies planned to force workers to return to the office, to then trickle down working from home instead of meaningful raises. Now that workers did not just return to the office, many are looking for force them to come back full or quit, so they can get into the position to use work from home as a compensation reward for whoever remains. To do this they plan to make stay at home workers take a 5% to 10% paycut. Like fucking HR experts came up with this to end the problem of workers not returning.  Retaining talent obviously is not something US companies value at all.

Aug 23, 2022 7:48:24 GMT NATH45 said:

iNCY, there's doing more to get noticed or be considered for a promotion and then there's being taken advantage of. And realistically your KPI performance and metrics should be the real decider on a promotion or advancement.

If you were say, a sales manager and you were paid to work 9am - 5pm, yet the boss said you needed to clock out at 5pm and work until 7pm everyday and it became the norm. That's not about going " above and beyond " that's about increasing an employees output by 20% and not paying for it.

Hustling and grinding as a small business owner or sole trader is an entire different beast, as you'd probably know better then anyone.

No I do disagree.
If you're expected to work 9am until 7pm but paid 9-5 it totally depends on what your pay is. If you're getting paid enough that when you factor in those two hours that you're still making good money, then awesome... Else leave.

I think bosses should compensate workers for their hours and as I have stated previously, I think most of these scenarios are middle managers making a name for themselves at their subordinates expense, which is totally not cool and a sign of a bad management structure.

Looking past all of this, whether you call it "quiet quitting or "acting your wage" it's disgraceful, not anything to do with your boss or your job, but 100% to do with who you are as a person.
If you deserve more pay, then leave... Or if you stay give it your best.

I'm not talking about working for free in the how of a future promotion, I'm talking about self development and becoming all you can be as a person. You term it hustle culture, but the world is one of finite resources and if we want to receive more than the majority we have to do something different to the majority.
We can sit around and whine about how people could get a job in the 50s and support a family on a single wage, but those times are gone, so everyone has to choose whether they accept mediocrity for themselves.

Now I'm not judging, if someone wants to sit in the middle of the pack and do the average and receive the average, good for them. But don't whine about your results not being exceptional when there is nothing special or different about what you do.

Again, this is isn't my moral judgement, I'm just telling you from extensive experience that this is exactly how the world is.

If your job does not differentiate whether you give 100 percent or 120 percent, why should you give more? You say there is more if you give more but the US is full of people who did give 120% and now are broken physically or mentally from it. One of the reasons manufacturing in the US targets teens in high school, is they can get 10 years or so out of some of them before they disable the young workers. Many other fields push people to always be on call, and put in the midnight oil until they stroke out. Once you are of no use to the company they you are terminated and start your long process of fighting with the company legally for future benefits.

And inequality may be in vogue now, but zoomers are entering politics now. The older generation better prepare for life post neocon fiscal policy because the gen z is the most political generation we had so far, and extremely socialist. And each year that passes more will be added to the electorate, while each year that passes, there will be less boomers. Zoomers will absolutely kill trickle down economics which they were raised to know is a total scam.  Boomers hoarded wealth like no other generation in the modern, and that will end within a generation.  Some may flee the US or most will adjust to actually paying the taxes they are due as no other country has optional taxes for the 1%.

Aug 24, 2022 23:22:25 GMT c said:

If your job does not compensate you whether you give 100 percent or 120 percent, why should you give more? You say there is more but the US is full of people who did give 120% and now are broken physically or mentally from it. One of the reasons manufacturing in the US targets teens in high school, is they can get 10 years or so out of some of them before they disable the young workers. Many other fields push people to always be on call, and put in the midnight oil until they stroke out. Once you are of no use to the company they you are terminated and start your long process of fighting with the company legally for future benefits.

And inequality may be in vogue now, but zoomers are entering politics now. The older generation better prepare for life post neocon fiscal policy because the gen z is the most political generation we had so far, and extremely socialist. And each year that passes more will be added to the electorate, while each year that passes, there will be less boomers. Zoomers will absolutely kill trickle down economics which they were raised to know is a total scam.

Young people are only socialists because the older generation raised them to be morons. The idea that everyone can be paid a fortune and prices won't rise has already been disproven this year, it is the very notion of what inflation is.
Mostly the socialist push is from people who working meaningless jobs and expect to be compensated like they cured cancer.

If you read what I wrote, I never suggested someone should give more than 100% for the company, they should give whatever it takes to grow themselves for their own benefit... Not their customers.

I am constantly baffled that all of this surprises people.
There is a huge misunderstanding in most people of the fundamentals in how the world works.

This generation was raised to know trickle down economics was a scam and they will kill it. They also were raised to know that the 1% of people and corporations have optional taxes and they will also kill that. Whether another country grants them the tax loopholes the US currently does remains to be seen, but zoomers will start by demanding these people pay fair taxes, and actual pay them. They will break the cycle of buy, borrow and die. The elite can find another major country to allow this shit if they wish to continue, but they will be forced to either adapt paying fair taxes or leave the US to continue to live the way they are.

We not even started on socialism yet, just ending the tax bullshit that allows these people to basically get infinite leverage, and convert it to wealth without paying taxes.

Demanding how? We're at their mercy...

Aug 24, 2022 23:41:18 GMT @ness said:

Demanding how? We're at their mercy...

We got youth.  Most boomers will be dead in the next 20 years.  We will solve aging but not soon enough to save them.  

Aug 24, 2022 23:32:26 GMT c said:

This generation was raised to know trickle down economics was a scam and they will kill it. They also were raised to know that the 1% of people and corporations have optional taxes and they will also kill that. Whether another country grants them the tax loopholes the US currently does remains to be seen, but zoomers will start by demanding these people pay fair taxes, and actual pay them. They will break the cycle of buy, borrow and die. The elite can find another major country to allow this shit if they wish to continue, but they will be forced to either adapt paying fair taxes or leave the US to continue to live the way they are.

We not even started on socialism yet, just ending the tax bullshit that allows these people to basically get infinite leverage, and convert it to wealth without paying taxes.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Are you calling a capitalism a failure?

Reminds me of the Winston Churchill quote:




Same deal for Capitalism.
The main problem we have is from raising a generation of children to believe that their uninformed feelings and opinions matter.... They don't!

I can think of no better analogy for the hubris of this generation than that of the "fearless girl" statue:




You can be brave, you can be fearless, doesn't mean life won't stick a horn up your ass for your troubles.
As much as you and you ilk want to think that there is a shining Utopia out of reach just around the next bend in the road, you are running out of excuses as to why it is not attainable.
First it was the darkness of religon
Then it was the repression of women
Following that it was race
Now it is what/ That you can't incur 100k of college debt and then buy a house on a Barista salary from Starbucks?


Although all of these causes may be just, none of them is a barrier to a social utopia, because human nature is at the very core of the problem.

Again, I am not saying everything is perfect, I am saying it is the way it is.

And that is the difference, I think we can make things better and this is not the current peak of human existence.

Aug 25, 2022 7:17:30 GMT c said:

And that is the difference, I think we can make things better and this is not the current peak of human existence.

I always think things can be improved, but that's not what you're saying.
You want to break a system that created the middle class for the first time in history to roll out principals that have failed every single time they have been applied across time periods, nations and cultures.

The problem is not the system, but human nature.

Aug 25, 2022 10:45:56 GMT iNCY said:

Aug 25, 2022 7:17:30 GMT c said:

And that is the difference, I think we can make things better and this is not the current peak of human existence.

I always think things can be improved, but that's not what you're saying.
You want to break a system that created the middle class for the first time in history to roll out principals that have failed every single time they have been applied across time periods, nations and cultures.

The problem is not the system, but human nature.

The same system that has now destroyed the middle class. That’s not to say I think socialism would work better. I just know that capitalism run amok isn’t working anymore either. Because like any system it can be gamed, and those with power and money will always game it no matter the system.


The socialist failures are as much caused by that as they are socialism not being at all viable. Again I’m not even arguing it is 100% viable. I’m just saying. Most countries we refer to as socialist are really just state sponsored capitalism.

And other countrie with strong socialist systems in place like the nordic countries, Australia, UK, etc are not considered socialist. For some reason people love to delimit socialism to right wing socialism, while ignoring left wing socialism.

Aug 25, 2022 13:24:40 GMT All34LOL said:

Aug 25, 2022 10:45:56 GMT iNCY said:

I always think things can be improved, but that's not what you're saying.
You want to break a system that created the middle class for the first time in history to roll out principals that have failed every single time they have been applied across time periods, nations and cultures.

The problem is not the system, but human nature.

The same system that has now destroyed the middle class. That’s not to say I think socialism would work better. I just know that capitalism run amok isn’t working anymore either. Because like any system it can be gamed, and those with power and money will always game it no matter the system.


The socialist failures are as much caused by that as they are socialism not being at all viable. Again I’m not even arguing it is 100% viable. I’m just saying. Most countries we refer to as socialist are really just state sponsored capitalism.


Oh yeah and capitalism didn’t build americas middle class on it’s own. In America it had the wealth in part due to slavery. Strong unions also built the middle class. The labor abuses of the late 19th and early 20th centuries allowed to continue might have built a strong economy, but not prosperity for the worker.

Aug 25, 2022 13:24:40 GMT All34LOL said:

Aug 25, 2022 10:45:56 GMT iNCY said:

I always think things can be improved, but that's not what you're saying.
You want to break a system that created the middle class for the first time in history to roll out principals that have failed every single time they have been applied across time periods, nations and cultures.

The problem is not the system, but human nature.

The same system that has now destroyed the middle class. That’s not to say I think socialism would work better. I just know that capitalism run amok isn’t working anymore either. Because like any system it can be gamed, and those with power and money will always game it no matter the system.


The socialist failures are as much caused by that as they are socialism not being at all viable. Again I’m not even arguing it is 100% viable. I’m just saying. Most countries we refer to as socialist are really just state sponsored capitalism.

Yes, the issue is that no financial model allows for globalisation, there is now nothing requiring companies to invest the money in the country where the income was generated, so the money still trickles down, but not to the country where it was generated.

If you haven't realised yet All34LOL, I am a bit of an asshole with these things, because it's the same people who want to purchase cheap crap from Walmart manufactured in low cost labour countries that want to bitch about what they get paid.
If everyone made the pledge tomorrow to only purchase good made in their own country, they could transform the world in a short space of time... But it won't happen because people are addicted to materialism.
You are an old bastard like me, when you were a kid I bet your house didn't have a quarter of the crap that people have now.

So capitalism is imperfect, because it returns what you put into it.
Socialism isn't perfect because it has financially destroyed every country that ever tried it.