Why has it not destroyed Australia?  Or the nordic countries?  Again you define socialism in a VERY narrow band of red socialism.  Blue socialism you pretend is not real.  No one in the US is fighting for communism.  We want the same socialist programs that the UK, Australia, and the rest of the first world has.  

And before you say Australia is not a socialist country, our conservatives are still talking about bring guns back to your country to free you from your socialist oppressors before your entire country collapses.  

Aug 26, 2022 1:06:03 GMT c said:

Why has it not destroyed Australia?  Or the nordic countries?  Again you define socialism in a VERY narrow band of red socialism.  Blue socialism you pretend is not real.  No one in the US is fighting for communism.  We want the same socialist programs that the UK, Australia, and the rest of the first world has.  

And before you say Australia is not a socialist country, our conservatives are still talking about bring guns back to your country to free you from your socialist oppressors before your entire country collapses.  

This all this.

Aug 26, 2022 1:06:03 GMT c said:

Why has it not destroyed Australia?  Or the nordic countries?  Again you define socialism in a VERY narrow band of red socialism.  Blue socialism you pretend is not real.  No one in the US is fighting for communism.  We want the same socialist programs that the UK, Australia, and the rest of the first world has.  

And before you say Australia is not a socialist country, our conservatives are still talking about bring guns back to your country to free you from your socialist oppressors before your entire country collapses.  

Aug 26, 2022 1:11:14 GMT All34LOL said:

Aug 26, 2022 1:06:03 GMT c said:

Why has it not destroyed Australia?  Or the nordic countries?  Again you define socialism in a VERY narrow band of red socialism.  Blue socialism you pretend is not real.  No one in the US is fighting for communism.  We want the same socialist programs that the UK, Australia, and the rest of the first world has.  

And before you say Australia is not a socialist country, our conservatives are still talking about bring guns back to your country to free you from your socialist oppressors before your entire country collapses.  

This all this.

Our economies are different, we have had this discussion before.
Do you know what manufacturing we have in Australia? Absolutely ZERO in the way of automotive or other manufacturing.
We have run head first into a globalised society.
The minimum wage here is AUD $18 per hour, but you cannot even find someone who will work for that amount of money in the current climate.

Nearly everything that can be automated here is automated.
Our economy is headed for a massive wall, we have a structural shortfall in our budget that grows larger every year.
There are only two reasons our economy hasn't formally shat the bed in the most spectacular way possible:

1. Our main export is minerals, the developing world is still willing to pay a fortune for this and it covers a shit load of structural economic issues (We run a trade surplus with China)
2. The willingness for the average Australian to incur debt is enormous.


So I am a huge fan of a public single payer health system and a living wage.
But what you don't understand is that if you enacted all our policies in the USA you would have a surge in automation and a 15-20% unemployment rate.
There are many people employed in the USA who simply wouldn't have any job whatsoever in Australia.
As I often tell people, I have worked a lot in the USA and a company with 20-30 employees in the USA would be 10 employees max in Australia.

Aug 26, 2022 1:27:54 GMT iNCY said:

Aug 26, 2022 1:06:03 GMT c said:

Why has it not destroyed Australia?  Or the nordic countries?  Again you define socialism in a VERY narrow band of red socialism.  Blue socialism you pretend is not real.  No one in the US is fighting for communism.  We want the same socialist programs that the UK, Australia, and the rest of the first world has.  

And before you say Australia is not a socialist country, our conservatives are still talking about bring guns back to your country to free you from your socialist oppressors before your entire country collapses.  

Aug 26, 2022 1:11:14 GMT All34LOL said:

This all this.

Our economies are different, we have had this discussion before.
Do you know what manufacturing we have in Australia? Absolutely ZERO in the way of automotive or other manufacturing.
We have run head first into a globalised society.
The minimum wage here is AUD $18 per hour, but you cannot even find someone who will work for that amount of money in the current climate.

Nearly everything that can be automated here is automated.
Our economy is headed for a massive wall, we have a structural shortfall in our budget that grows larger every year.
There are only two reasons our economy hasn't formally shat the bed in the most spectacular way possible:

1. Our main export is minerals, the developing world is still willing to pay a fortune for this and it covers a shit load of structural economic issues (We run a trade surplus with China)
2. The willingness for the average Australian to incur debt is enormous.


So I am a huge fan of a public single payer health system and a living wage.
But what you don't understand is that if you enacted all our policies in the USA you would have a surge in automation and a 15-20% unemployment rate.
There are many people employed in the USA who simply wouldn't have any job whatsoever in Australia.
As I often tell people, I have worked a lot in the USA and a company with 20-30 employees in the USA would be 10 employees max in Australia.

I’m not gonna pretend to have a response that rises to all that. I will say the automated jobs are coming either way.


Besides all the right wing news is constantly telling me that no one is working anymore anyway… and that unemployment here is really like 50% so…. Damn lazy kids.




I say we make everyone as comfortable as possible because sooner or later either the planets gonna destroy us or somebody gets themselves a quantum computer and changes everything…and I do mean everything… likely for the worse. Sorry you can Ignore this last part that’s just the stuff that was going through my head I normally wouldn’t add but I did here on account of being stoned.

Always reasons why the US is the SOLE country in the world that cannot enact basic first world policy. We can implement socialism for corporations and the wealthy, but for the rest of the us, we only get that rugged individualism those receiving socialist benefits claims is good for us.

If we cannot make affordable healthcare work here, we mine as well accept we are a failed state that cannot keep up with the first world anymore.  And it was capitalism that failed us not socialism which will fight tooth and nail.

Aug 26, 2022 6:25:50 GMT c said:

Always reasons why the US is the SOLE country in the world that cannot enact basic first world policy. We can implement socialism for corporations and the wealthy, but for the rest of the us, we only get that rugged individualism those receiving socialist benefits claims is good for us.

If we cannot make affordable healthcare work here, we mine as well accept we are a failed state that cannot keep up with the first world anymore.  And it was capitalism that failed us not socialism which will fight tooth and nail.

I am trying to be nice about it, but the greatest strength of your country is also its greatest weakness, which is... As far as countries go that you're pretty shit.
It's always been the reason for your success because you have just gotten out of the way and let the ability and sometimes greed of a minority drag your entire nation towards prosperity... Albeit in an increasingly lopsided fashion.



The people are great, the entrepreneurs are brilliant... But the entire governance system is total antiquated shit. You want a single payer health system with a beauracracy running over the top of it? You can't even run a bloody election, it's a loose correlation of shitty components that if we are lucky will do the right thing when they're supposed to...

Your police force are like mall cops exercising lethal force willy Nilly with no oversight or proper training.

You don't even have the same environmental laws in each state.
Completely different tax systems state by state...

I could go on, but you have NOTHING as a nation except for the work ethic and ability to make uncapped money by a very few, that has propelled the entire nation to where it is today. This infectious yet unfounded optimism causes the American youth to throw themselves into pointless education like Lemmings from a cliff.
The rest of the USA exists purely to provide the cogs to keep the behemoth of capitalism rolling along.


You want to be like Australia or Norway? Try having an actual Federal government first and see how that feels for size.

If your behemoth stops you will become a 3rd world country.
My advice would be to stay shit unless you have a really clear idea on what you are planning to do, because companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft etc. Couldn't have happened anywhere else on earth. These companies need the fertilizer you so richly provide.

So you are saying first we need a socialist takeover of the US? AWESOME DUDE!!!

Conservatives were consider a strong federal government socialism. They want 50 different governments all with equal power. If they could they would abolish the central government entirely. We do dual federalism and CONSERVATIVES are the ones who want the states solely to have the power to do whatever they want without a federal government getting in their way. All of the things you are criticizing are a result of this.

Curious how you think too we can get innovation without education. You repeatedly trash education, but without education there can be no innovation at all, because people will not even know what delimits a topic and consistently reinvent the wheel. It is not bad to educate a populus, even in things that outsiders feel is non-relevant as the essence of innovation, far transfer, occurs when you mix domain knowledge, with knowledge from without. That is the essence of the creativity and why AI cannot do novel innovation and only incremental innovation.

The US, as a whole, is far better too after the push for education. Most people now can do enough math to understand an interest rate, something they often were not about to understand in 1970. Math literacy is making great strides in the US FINALLY with common core education. The majority of people graduating high school are fully literate, where in 1970, it was estimated 15% of people who finished high school still could not read or write. You praise startups, college gives people the topical knowledge to start their own businesses, and the tech skills to do so, which is why entrepreneurship is at an alltime high and this is a golden age for the small business in the US. Finally, a college education is the single strongest insulator we seen from misinformation and media manipulation as those lovely critical thinking skills are not generally learned by the uneducated.

It is a great irony too that most of the people who criticize a college education are almost entirely those who never spent any time in college. While there are legit criticisms the people who never went that criticise college, criticise a college experience that does not actually exist for students in an accredited public university.

Aug 26, 2022 10:53:59 GMT iNCY said:

Aug 26, 2022 6:25:50 GMT c said:

Always reasons why the US is the SOLE country in the world that cannot enact basic first world policy. We can implement socialism for corporations and the wealthy, but for the rest of the us, we only get that rugged individualism those receiving socialist benefits claims is good for us.

If we cannot make affordable healthcare work here, we mine as well accept we are a failed state that cannot keep up with the first world anymore.  And it was capitalism that failed us not socialism which will fight tooth and nail.

I am trying to be nice about it, but the greatest strength of your country is also its greatest weakness, which is... As far as countries go that you're pretty shit.
It's always been the reason for your success because you have just gotten out of the way and let the ability and sometimes greed of a minority drag your entire nation towards prosperity... Albeit in an increasingly lopsided fashion.



The people are great, the entrepreneurs are brilliant... But the entire governance system is total antiquated shit. You want a single payer health system with a beauracracy running over the top of it? You can't even run a bloody election, it's a loose correlation of shitty components that if we are lucky will do the right thing when they're supposed to...

Your police force are like mall cops exercising lethal force willy Nilly with no oversight or proper training.

You don't even have the same environmental laws in each state.
Completely different tax systems state by state...

I could go on, but you have NOTHING as a nation except for the work ethic and ability to make uncapped money by a very few, that has propelled the entire nation to where it is today. This infectious yet unfounded optimism causes the American youth to throw themselves into pointless education like Lemmings from a cliff.
The rest of the USA exists purely to provide the cogs to keep the behemoth of capitalism rolling along.


You want to be like Australia or Norway? Try having an actual Federal government first and see how that feels for size.

If your behemoth stops you will become a 3rd world country.
My advice would be to stay shit unless you have a really clear idea on what you are planning to do, because companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft etc. Couldn't have happened anywhere else on earth. These companies need the fertilizer you so richly provide.

This might be my favorite iNCY Pipebomb... If not of all time, at least since the 2020s started. I wish there was a way to save or bookmark this. This starts to touch on the hideous ugly truth about America and why well never actually change.

I think it's safe to say the fight for 15 is over in many ways. 15 doesn't cut it anymore, it's arguable that 20/hr in most parts of the country is essentially minimum wage. Ignoring the people who scammed the government out of PPP loans (crime always pays boyos), it does seem like a lot of businesses only function by exploiting people with low wages or the model simply does not work. If we buy the narrative that restaurants have razor thin margins (don't buy this for a fucking second btw) and that's factoring in essentially paying your employees nothing and relying on social practices/shame of consumers... clearly the model doesn't work. It's a failed business.

But what is the answer? Socialist countries seem to pay out the ass in taxes for their services, which is impossible to do in the US because it's a very "fuck you got mine" mentality which I'll even say I'm guilty of as well.

Is capitalism just broken? Like realistically what should people be making to get by? There's a lot of factors in play and the game is clearly rigged in a lot of ways. Landlords that contribute nothing to the world are not seen as lazy, but someone giving 60+ hr weeks providing goods and services is seen as a leech.

Like there are people in 2022 that think people should do manual labor for 14 and they think that's A LOT. WHAT THE FUCK.

Interesting times as people are opting out or simply cannot afford to raise families... what is the answer to wages? Hard to believe the feds think wages are too high. Like if I told you straight up I made 29/hr that sounds like a lot? And it may have been in the 90s but today it's merely an inch longer than average, giggity. I hate that we can't discuss this rationally because if you bring up inflation and stagnant wages what happens next? THATS YOU GET FOR VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS.

Jesus christ on a bike.

Aug 28, 2022 14:31:27 GMT @ness said:

I think it's safe to say the fight for 15 is over in many ways. 15 doesn't cut it anymore, it's arguable that 20/hr in most parts of the country is essentially minimum wage. Ignoring the people who scammed the government out of PPP loans (crime always pays boyos), it does seem like a lot of businesses only function by exploiting people with low wages or the model simply does not work. If we buy the narrative that restaurants have razor thin margins (don't buy this for a fucking second btw) and that's factoring in essentially paying your employees nothing and relying on social practices/shame of consumers... clearly the model doesn't work. It's a failed business.

But what is the answer? Socialist countries seem to pay out the ass in taxes for their services, which is impossible to do in the US because it's a very "fuck you got mine" mentality which I'll even say I'm guilty of as well.

Is capitalism just broken? Like realistically what should people be making to get by? There's a lot of factors in play and the game is clearly rigged in a lot of ways. Landlords that contribute nothing to the world are not seen as lazy, but someone giving 60+ hr weeks providing goods and services is seen as a leech.

Like there are people in 2022 that think people should do manual labor for 14 and they think that's A LOT. WHAT THE FUCK.

Interesting times as people are opting out or simply cannot afford to raise families... what is the answer to wages? Hard to believe the feds think wages are too high. Like if I told you straight up I made 29/hr that sounds like a lot? And it may have been in the 90s but today it's merely an inch longer than average, giggity. I hate that we can't discuss this rationally because if you bring up inflation and stagnant wages what happens next? THATS YOU GET FOR VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS.

Jesus christ on a bike.

I want to favorite this one as well.

The funny thing with socialist countries and taxes, is many poor Americans now already pay what they do. The rich however pays tons more. Which is why you never see American style inequality and multibillionaires in these countries. There is a very good reason the US has more billionaires than any other country, we tax them the least.

And yeah the fight for 15 turned into the fight for 25 I believe now after it was found 24 is what is needed for a living wage, pre-inflation.

Yeah that's funny when you put it that socialism.

"Yeah but those nordic countries pay out the ASS in taxes..."

We already are and we have zilch to show for it lmao.

Yup. Analysis shows that for the common person the US, we would pay less overall in a socialist system even with higher taxes, due to healthcare costs dropping like a stone.

Of course everyone claims if solely the US market does not allow drug companies to gorge then all drug innovation will stop and all drug companies will go out of business, but that is a lode of fucking crap and we all know it. Every other first world country put a cap on drugs and it did not kill drug company research, despite the same exact line being used every other time. Same for people becoming doctors. We not seen any countries suddenly have people no longer become doctors because they use socialized drug care. There is a general shortage of doctors globally, but that is more linked to education.

And then there is the US is the sole market in the world that this would not work for. Can work for every other country that tries it, but if the US tries it, it will communism and we will have food lines and total economic collapse. Kind of funny though how it seems if we do anything to benefit the common person or go against the right it leads to foods lines and total economic collapse. Allow kids to reach Catcher in the Rye, that is it total economic collapse and communism everywhere. Allow boys to wear feminine clothes if they want, soup kitchens everywhere and Che Guevara rises from the dead to led us. Ban 18 year olds from conceal carrying guns to school, oh shit here comes Stalin!!!

Aug 28, 2022 14:31:27 GMT @ness said:

But what is the answer? Socialist countries seem to pay out the ass in taxes for their services, which is impossible to do in the US because it's a very "fuck you got mine" mentality which I'll even say I'm guilty of as well.

Aug 28, 2022 15:41:51 GMT @ness said:

Yeah that's funny when you put it that socialism.

"Yeah but those nordic countries pay out the ASS in taxes..."

We already are and we have zilch to show for it lmao.

This is the funny part, you were 100% right on the first post.
We have discussed this many timess, but c's "EAT THE RICH" doesn't actually solve the problem.
For sure your tax codes has so many leaks that it is a wonder it catches any revenue at all, but this is not the reason the Nordic countries have a high rate of social services.
They don't tax the rich particularly lighly:

This is the US income tax rates:



As I always point out... And get ignored because it is not convenient.
It is the middle class that pays for the generous social policies through a higher tax rate:



Here's some numbers to consider:

In the United States, the average single worker faced a net average tax rate of 22.6% in 2021, compared with the OECD average of 24.6%.
Sweden's average local tax rate is 32.34 per cent.

And you are 100% correct @ness that most people in the USA take the F*** YOU JACK I AM ALRIGHT when it comes to paying for social programs.
It is in the fundamental DNA of the USA, it is a country built on personal liberty and freedom, where countries like Australia and Sweden are funded on the well being of the whole society.

Amazon and some other companies now pushing for bathroom ONLY on break. Failure to do so is considered time theft is you get written up.

///

That is just federal income tax Incy. We also have payroll taxes, state income tax, then state and local property tax (some of these includes cars), state sales tax, local sales, and state and federal excise taxes. Most of what Americans pay taxes for is not income but the rest of these taxes.

Taxpayers paid 1.6 trillion in federal income taxes, but then pay another trillion in state taxes. Very likely we are paying more taxes than a place like Sweden for far less.

No one really reports on this as federal income is always analyzed separate from state and local data, and the data is considered independent, so people here have no real summary of what people in different demographic groups actually pay in taxes. We are just lead to believe that the people who pay the least amount of income tax, will pay the least amount of state and local taxes as well. But it is not entirely true at all.

Aug 30, 2022 3:49:37 GMT c said:

Amazon and some other companies now pushing for bathroom ONLY on break. Failure to do so is considered time theft is you get written up.

///

That is just federal income tax Incy. We also have payroll taxes, state income tax, then state and local property tax (some of these includes cars), state sales tax, local sales, and state and federal excise taxes. Most of what Americans pay taxes for is not income but the rest of these taxes.

Taxpayers paid 1.6 trillion in federal income taxes, but then pay another trillion in state taxes. Very likely we are paying more taxes than a place like Sweden for far less.

No one really reports on this as federal income is always analyzed separate from state and local data, and the data is considered independent, so people here have no real summary of what people in different demographic groups actually pay in taxes. We are just lead to believe that the people who pay the least amount of income tax, will pay the least amount of state and local taxes as well. But it is not entirely true at all.

I don't think so, places like Sweden have a national VAT tax, which is about 25%
My point previously stands though, you have to clean up your tax system if you ever want a chance at building an actual nation.
It's nuts that you can have different tax rates in different states, the losses to duplicated administration in 50 states alone is enormous.

This is an analysis of the median wage in the US paid to someone living in California:




This is the same amount converted to Swedish Kr




Which is a take home in USD of: 29,345.80
On top of this they pay a 25% tax on everything they buy.

Our GOP would consider one federal tax rate straight communism and been opposed this since the founding of our nation.

I mean...

Aug 30, 2022 11:25:57 GMT c said:

Our GOP would consider one federal tax rate straight communism.

I mean...

So Mr Bait and Switch, where is the talk from the DNC to move to a simplified tax system with a higher level of tax placed on the middle class?

Renamed this to a general labor shit thread.

Metaverse appears to be dead for now and Zuck is laying off 11k workers.  Not surprising no one wants to work in a virtual office.

So what is a good wage in 2022? Its still laughable how low they are nationwide. Is there any reason to be working for less than 20?

If you work for more than minimum wage then CEOS will not get their billions and rise prices.

Nov 9, 2022 15:50:59 GMT @ness said:

So what is a good wage in 2022? Its still laughable how low they are nationwide. Is there any reason to be working for less than 20?

Passed a sign for Dunkin donuts hiring up to $19/hr. If I can get the "up to" at start, and also eat all the free donuts I want, I could def go all-in on that as a part-time gig once son hits preschool.

Nov 9, 2022 18:23:57 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 9, 2022 15:50:59 GMT @ness said:

So what is a good wage in 2022? Its still laughable how low they are nationwide. Is there any reason to be working for less than 20?

Passed a sign for Dunkin donuts hiring up to $19/hr. If I can get the "up to" at start, and also eat all the free donuts I want, I could def go all-in on that as a part-time gig once son hits preschool.

Dude be the lunch lady or the school janitor.

Nov 9, 2022 18:23:57 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 9, 2022 15:50:59 GMT @ness said:

So what is a good wage in 2022? Its still laughable how low they are nationwide. Is there any reason to be working for less than 20?

Passed a sign for Dunkin donuts hiring up to $19/hr. If I can get the "up to" at start, and also eat all the free donuts I want, I could def go all-in on that as a part-time gig once son hits preschool.

You never get the "up to," that's how they get you. Or they schedule you fewer hours at the top wage.

Bait and switch that sucks either way. Either you don't start there or if you do, don't expect a raise EVER.

Nov 9, 2022 22:49:21 GMT Gyro LC said:

Nov 9, 2022 18:23:57 GMT 🤯 said:

Passed a sign for Dunkin donuts hiring up to $19/hr. If I can get the "up to" at start, and also eat all the free donuts I want, I could def go all-in on that as a part-time gig once son hits preschool.

You never get the "up to," that's how they get you. Or they schedule you fewer hours at the top wage.

But I want the fewest hours possible (and most free donuts possible)...

That's a racoon the next night.

Nov 10, 2022 0:35:33 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 9, 2022 22:49:21 GMT Gyro LC said:

You never get the "up to," that's how they get you. Or they schedule you fewer hours at the top wage.

But I want the fewest hours possible (and most free donuts possible)...

Say that in the interview, it screams management material.

Nov 10, 2022 2:59:44 GMT iNCY said:

Nov 10, 2022 0:35:33 GMT 🤯 said:

But I want the fewest hours possible (and most free donuts possible)...

Say that in the interview, it screams management material.

It might work actually…


He better not try at Baskin Robbins though, Baskin Robbins don’t play.

Nov 10, 2022 3:01:50 GMT All34LOL said:

Nov 10, 2022 2:59:44 GMT iNCY said:

Say that in the interview, it screams management material.

It might work actually…


He better not try at Baskin Robbins though, Baskin Robbins don’t play.

First job ever was Baskin Robbins! Never again...

You can only catch a Pakistani nutting in the deep freeze so often before you start to question what might actually be in the ice cream.