Likely he already made plans for Moxley and now Punk is on the outs for them. My guess is Mox wins then loses the title in the near future to move it again to a heel to throw all of the faces they have at.

I can't see AEW heading to Chicago for All Out and Punk not being involved in the title picture. I'm leaning towards there being some animosity but not enough to get in the way of good business. Punk sees an opportunity and so far it appears to have had the desired effect.

It's MITB 2011 all over again.

It’s a big fat work. We saw similar headlines a week or two ago about FTR having heat with The Bucks - it’s all angle orientated. Enjoy the ride. Does everyone in that locker room like Punk? No. He’s an odd bod who doesn’t care who likes him. Just as he worked everyone a couple of weeks ago hobbling around at an appearance, this stinks of work too. He’s gonna go heel and I can’t fucking wait. Since they’ve turned Bucks and Kenny face, give me heel/tweeners FTR and Punk.

Aug 19, 2022 7:43:24 GMT Big Pete said:

I can't see AEW heading to Chicago for All Out and Punk not being involved in the title picture. I'm leaning towards there being some animosity but not enough to get in the way of good business. Punk sees an opportunity and so far it appears to have had the desired effect.

100%, he’s got a hell of a mind for the business. It’s got people talking. And it’s also reminded people about Hangman who’s been badly lost in the shuffle since that title change.

That was my feeling too. He called out Hangman to put over the former champ. If he really wanted to do Hangman dirty he would just not mention who he won the belt from at all.

Also Punk may be just doing the Mox rematch to burn it so they can sell a PPV with something bigger like Joe, Dragon or Omega.

As someone who defended HHH during the reign of terror years, I get what it’s like to defend your favourites and think well of them, but there’s a lot of copium in here guys.

The reports stink. The amount of speculation and lack of fact is staggering. If it comes out in the wash, I’ll be the first to hold my hands up but Meltzers reporting and the SRS stuff is weak. “May”, “possibly”, “maybe” - it’s not strong journalism.

SRS stuff is usually crap. But Punk too is always controversial as he does have strong opinions, rubbed a few people backstage really wrong (Owens, Quack, Road Dogg, etc). Not to mention that shit he pulled on Colt. Punk can be a right cunt at times.

Oh without doubt, he’s been a cunt in the past and I’m not questioning it’s not out of character for him to be a cunt again. He almost loves burning bridges but I dunno. Everything I’ve read until this point was super positive. Starks, Hobbs, Dax all massively praised him. Danhausen loves him. Sting’s said positive stuff. It just seems there’s a new story every week. It was MJF, then Tony Khan, then Dax and Cash, now Punk. I can’t take the reporting seriously. I just saw something from WON that said “MJF is reported to be back sometime soon.” Thanks for that informative piece of journalism.

FTR know.

I share all of your caution when it comes to believing what Sapp or Meltzer says. But he’s broken many stories. I think back to the Cody story breaking and the exact same reaction happened in the AEW fanbase, that it was a work and Cody was becoming a meta heel and the rest of it. It’s not like Punk doesn’t have form for this as you’ve all been discussing.

From WON this morning: “there is a ton of backstage drama in AEW.”

“Right now there is a ton of backstage drama involving many of the top guys that has gotten much worse in recent weeks. There’s a part of me where I just think Tony Khan needs to sit everyone down and air everything out before it gets worse. The big thing that started all this is that Colt Cabana is not in the Dark Order with no angle and stopped being brought to television. He was going to be cut but Khan signed him for ROH. This is really the catalyst of everything although different people have different stories as to why it happened, including Page and Punk. But even if that didn’t happen, it was probably going to happen for something else just given the nature of the different personalities involved. It feels like a number of people are close to their breaking point if things don’t get settled.”

We went through this with Cody and MJF and didn’t learn our lesson. This company isn’t working the dirt sheets like a lot of fans seem to think. The MJF stuff wasn’t a work until they decided to make it one. Cody wasn’t a work. CM Punk may think he’s working with his cheeky promo (and by keeping Hangman relevant maybe in his mind he is), but guys like SRS and Meltzer aren’t going to report on this stuff if they don’t believe it to be true. Say what you will about them as people, they do have a reputation to consider when reporting these things.

Is Punk going to walk? I don’t think so. But if this gets out of hand someone else might. It sounds like a lot of drama over something small that isn’t getting squashed like it should. Hopefully Tony and his new Talent Relations team step up and fix this before it gets any worse.

Aug 19, 2022 11:56:01 GMT Todd said:

As someone who defended HHH during the reign of terror years, I get what it’s like to defend your favourites and think well of them, but there’s a lot of copium in here guys.

Copium over what? That Punk is a prick? If anything we're happy to finally see it instead of this 'stella gets her groove back' phase he was going through.

You know the trainer guy in Beyond the Mat who says (paraphrasing
) you have to be a prick otherwise the wrestlers will run all over you?


EDIT:


14:53

Just from the outsider’s perspective it seems to be the problem Tony Khan is having combined with bad communication. Not saying Khan needs to a complete dickhead buts it’s obviously he can’t be every wrestlers friend and give everyone what they want.

Aug 19, 2022 15:06:04 GMT Big Pete said:

Aug 19, 2022 11:56:01 GMT Todd said:

As someone who defended HHH during the reign of terror years, I get what it’s like to defend your favourites and think well of them, but there’s a lot of copium in here guys.

Copium over what? That Punk is a prick? If anything we're happy to finally see it instead of this 'stella gets her groove back' phase he was going through.

That it’s all a work.

Aug 19, 2022 15:22:17 GMT Todd said:

Aug 19, 2022 15:06:04 GMT Big Pete said:

Copium over what? That Punk is a prick? If anything we're happy to finally see it instead of this 'stella gets her groove back' phase he was going through.

That it’s all a work.

Nobody is saying that, rather it's just nice to see wrestlers mix some reality into the show.

It's been said for years that everyone on the show is too nice.

Aug 19, 2022 16:11:23 GMT Big Pete said:

Aug 19, 2022 15:22:17 GMT Todd said:

That it’s all a work.

Nobody is saying that, rather it's just nice to see wrestlers mix some reality into the show.

It's been said for years that everyone on the show is too nice.

I said as much on the last page, although I was speaking specifically to the fact that CM Punk called out Hangman in his promo and not the backstage drama itself. Punk was clearly using some reality to work the fans. I felt Punk tried to accomplish two things: 1) take a jab at Hangman and 2) keep his name relevant as the former World Champion who was quite literally sitting in catering during Punk’s promo.

Unfortunately his promo upset the wrong people, it seems. And now we’re here.

My gut is saying that a whole lot of people do not realize Punk is working heel and are getting worked as fucked.

Speaking of MJF, rumors are he is coming back soon. Which makes me wonder if he needed time off for personal reasons. Dude is so private that he would do an angle for real life issues or even an injury.

As for the backstage news, AEW does seem to like to work these guys.  Only guy I can think of with legit heat is Colt.  Eddie I do not think has real heat.  If he did he would be talking about in every interview as that is how Eddie is.

I just watched it and honestly I think it's one big work. A highly enjoyable work though. The best promos are steeped in truth, and that's where guys like Punk and Mox excel.

Is Punk an asshole? With a capital A. BUT, like it or not, he's also got a great head for the business. He knows what people want to hear, want to see and what to do to get there.

Watch Young Rock. Rocky Johnson is always telling young Dewey/Dwayne to 'work the gimmick', whether in or out of the ring. Punk works the gimmick. Sometimes the gimmick is he's a cunt, which he is. I think he's often working the long con. 

Aug 19, 2022 16:11:23 GMT Big Pete said:

Aug 19, 2022 15:22:17 GMT Todd said:

That it’s all a work.

Nobody is saying that

Yes they are. :lol: WMS said it, three people liked it and c said he agreed.

I said it because it is.

Aye, hands up I said it. And I believe it. If there is in fact tensions I think they’re exaggerating it and trying to make money from it. The Punk/Colt thing is awful and doesn’t sit right with me, and I know Tony was evasive at a question asked about it previously, but I honestly don’t think this would all stem from Colt fucking Cabana being off TV. He was a bit part player in a meh stable before Punk came in. He was still in it after Punk debuted and even had a TV match with Danielson.

It’s like nobody even listened to Hulk Hogan:

My final take because until we find out more we’re just talking in circles…

-there is legit heat backstage but as always we’ll never know the extent of it or how bad it really is.

-Punk took said legit heat and decided to shoot a little on Wednesday knowing the IWC would eat it up.

-he probably thought it would keep Hangman relevant while letting him get his jabs in and people would forget about it once Moxley came out.

-it didn’t really work that way and his decision to do that didn’t go over well.

-SRS and Meltzer’s sources are not the people involved in said heat, just people on the outside looking in, so whatever the sources are telling them is probably blown out of proportion a little.

-people are talking like the title match is for sure happening Wednesday but nothing has been made official yet, and I think it’s incredibly unlikely that A) the title match happens before the PPV and B) CM Punk is not in Chicago for All Out.

-but if both those things happen then this is way worse than anyone thought. Until then, I think we can relax and just chalk this up to Punk working a shoot and having it blow up in his face. He’ll recover.

Aug 19, 2022 17:51:59 GMT Todd said:

Aug 19, 2022 16:11:23 GMT Big Pete said:

Nobody is saying that

Yes they are. WMS said it, three people liked it and c said he agreed.

In the exact same post he admits that there's likely lockeroom animosity and admits Punk's faults.

I rest my case with c.

Aug 19, 2022 17:51:59 GMT Todd said:

Aug 19, 2022 16:11:23 GMT Big Pete said:

Nobody is saying that

Yes they are. WMS said it, three people liked it and c said he agreed.

Def feels like a work to me.  We seen this Punk in RoH and IWA.  Punk who people cheer for and love, that cuts people down on the mic.  There is also some truth in the rumors too though as we know Colt disappeared when Punk came in, and there are guys in the back that worked with Punk when he was power tripping in RoH and treated others as beneath him.  I mean Stein had legit heat with Punk, and I believe he gave Eddie some shit on a show they worked for Punk's view that guys should not wrestle in t-shirts because it makes them look like fat slobs.

None of this would be new though.  

One thing I think that was pretty odd was when Moxley said that THE title didn't mean shit. Ummmm...that's not good business. Isn't the title/being Champion the ultimate prize in wrestling? Otherwise WTF are you killing yourself for? Even Punk was like...ummm lemme stop you there cause that was a dumbass thing to say. Then Mox goes on to say he's the heart and soul and that's what it's about and Punk said 'fine, be the heart and soul, I'll be the dollars and cents'. I can't argue with that. heart and soul doesn't pay the bills so whether people like it or not, guys like Punk are an inevitability because he puts asses in the seats and sells the tickets.  I hate Hogan, but I can't deny people pay to see him.

You can say he buried people, but I didn't see it that way at all. I saw it as building this rivalry and others heading into the future aka selling tickets.

I’ve enjoyed the discussion! The main thing to take out of all of this is that’s it got us, the wider wrestling community, talking and speculating and having a bit of a debate about it all too. I can’t wait for Wednesday’s show and All Out in Chicago. I’ll be watching both - at the end of the day that’s what Tony Khan and all involved will be wanting whether it’s shoot or fiction or a little from column A; a little from column B.

Don't mind me, I'm not entirely sure why I found it fit to gate-keep 'copium'. :lol:

The crazy thing is that Punk promo completely over-shadowed the finish of the main event where Dragon Lee completely sandbagged Omega on the One-Winged-Angel. Was that a work and some Tomohiro Ishii esque 'new style of selling' (pretending to botch to sell the drama of Kenny being rusty) or was Dragon Lee hurt? Was he being unprofessional? Did Rush and Andrade go into business for themselves?