OK I tried a bit of levity and that didn't work, so here's the bad cop. Stop fucking nitpicking everything C says, nothing he said was unreasonable in the slightest. This pile on in every thread is gross.

Dec 12, 2023 1:21:21 GMT @admin said:

OK I tried a bit of levity and that didn't work, so here's the bad cop. Stop fucking nitpicking everything C says, nothing he said was unreasonable in the slightest. This pile on in every thread is gross.

Cool beans.

So anyways, glad the world has taken a breath and realized the kid running the social media account was referencing the Cowboys.

Lets get back to shading Maria Kanellis Bennett! :@

Saw chatter today of Seth Rollins being a free agent in 2024, I can't see WWE letting him walk but I wonder if CM Punk acts up if that begins to sort of rock the boat with Rollins relationship with WWE. He has his wife there, he's a made man practically and he'd be Hangman Page at best in AEW IMO. He fits much better in WWE.

I think the decision comes solely down to how much time they want to spend with the kid. AEW will give them more days at home than WWE will. Seth and Becky's contracts are linked too. There is no reason they will not repeat their last signing and demanding identical contracts.  I assume Seth will sign short term to align with the extra time Becky has.

At first Tyler Black would be massive in AEW. Instant feuds with Mox and Ospreay. A lot of old feud can be reignited. And Seth is far better with characters than Hangman, and can create a new persona if needed. Not sure where he stands once his initial excitement wears down, but that always has been the case with Black. He does not do middle card very well.

Best take I seen was for Seth and Becky to go away but only sign for 3 years in AEW. Then after 3 return to WWE regardless of what Tony offers. Gives WWE time to miss them, and come they back as hot stars. Will end up making far more this way than this sitting in WWE the whole time too, as you get far more cash to jump than you do to stay.

Frankly that should be the default for most people to play the two against each other and jump with 3 year contracts.  If you are not the top of either company, it is always better to jump.  And if they really want you to jump, could push for 1 or 2 contract to not be locked in.  Like if Seth and Becky told Tony they would only sign for a 1 year but would renew if they were happy, no way he would tell them no.

Dec 12, 2023 2:08:35 GMT c said:

I think the decision comes solely down to how much time they want to spend with the kid. AEW will give them more days at home than WWE will. Seth and Becky's contracts are linked too. There is no reason they will not repeat their last signing and demanding identical contracts.  I assume Seth will sign short term to align with the extra time Becky has.

At first Tyler Black would be massive in AEW. Instant feuds with Mox and Ospreay. A lot of old feud can be reignited. And Seth is far better with characters than Hangman, and can create a new persona if needed. Not sure where he stands once his initial excitement wears down, but that always has been the case with Black. He does not do middle card very well.

Best take I seen was for Seth and Becky to go away but only sign for 3 years in AEW. Then after 3 return to WWE regardless of what Tony offers. Gives WWE time to miss them, and come they back as hot stars. Will end up making far more this way than this sitting in WWE the whole time too, as you get far more cash to jump than you do to stay.

Frankly that should be the default for most people to play the two against each other and jump with 3 year contracts.  If you are not the top of either company, it is always better to jump.  And if they really want you to jump, could push for 1 or 2 contract to not be locked in.  Like if Seth and Becky told Tony they would only sign for a 1 year but would renew if they were happy, no way he would tell them no.

If it’s a package deal, Becky is way more of a needle mover IMO. I cannot see Rollins by himself changing much of anything. I think he’d get over with the existing fan base, probably have some semi-decent matches, but it would end up another deflating jump.

At this point, I really don’t think any WWE talent other than a Lesnar or Reigns would legitimately impact the ratings beyond a short-term pop.

No one really moves the needle these days because no one is really watching TV these days. Bringing people in for ratings is just silly. Lesnar and Reigns both jumping together would barely move the needle either. AEW got all the wrestling fans it will get basically. Want to move the needle, they need someone like Taylor Swift appearing on a few shows.

Rollins will be good in AEW because he is a super creative guy and will thrive on creative freedom. He also worked a lot of the roster in the past and did good matches with them. I think short term, AEW would give us the best version of him.

Becky however, would get screwed since AEW proved they can only highlight about 4 girls at once. So while Rollins would thrive, Becky would be bored as fuck in the back. If she is cool staying home with kid and getting paid for it, AEW is great for her. Otherwise she will be the reason to stay in WWE.

Dec 12, 2023 3:03:09 GMT c said:

No one really moves the needle these days because no one is really watching TV these days. Bringing people in for ratings is just silly. Lesnar and Reigns both jumping together would barely move the needle either. AEW got all the wrestling fans it will get basically. Want to move the needle, they need someone like Taylor Swift appearing on a few shows.

Rollins will be good in AEW because he is a super creative guy and will thrive on creative freedom. He also worked a lot of the roster in the past and did good matches with them. I think short term, AEW would give us the best version of him.

Becky however, would get screwed since AEW proved they can only highlight about 4 girls at once. So while Rollins would thrive, Becky would be bored as fuck in the back. If she is cool staying home with kid and getting paid for it, AEW is great for her. Otherwise she will be the reason to stay in WWE.

Eh, I disagree. Roman moves the needle in the WWE. So does Brock. Punk was a needle mover for AEW.

I think ratings are still important too. FOX stepped away from Smackdown because it didn’t live up to ratings expectations. TK cares about ratings. Networks still do. Advertisers still do.

It’s not the lone metric any longer, but it can never ignored it’s intrinsically tied to AEW’s biggest revenue stream (TV rights).

I seriously doubt people are putting any serious weight into Nielsen ratings after the scandal and accreditation loss. Once Nelson said their ratings were not accurate, people were done with them. They got accreditation back, but people lost their faith in the accreditors too during this all.

While ratings do matter, the ones wrestling fans report do not anymore. Private research group ratings and internal ones matter now. Not the cheap Nielsen ratings that are leaked online. In the modern era, TV ratings are a shit metric.

From what I was seeing ad groups and networks do not give a damn about any raw numbers, and solely care about show rank. A show dropping from 2.3 to a 1.1 will mean nothing but if you drop from 2nd to 3rd it will raise alarm. At least for live TV. I presume time watched is the metric for streaming.

Dec 12, 2023 3:24:21 GMT c said:

I seriously doubt people are putting any serious weight into Nielsen ratings after the scandal and accreditation loss. Once Nelson said their ratings were not accurate, people were done with them. They got accreditation back, but people lost their faith in the accreditors too during this all.

While ratings do matter, the ones wrestling fans report do not anymore. Private research group ratings and internal ones matter now. Not the cheap Nielsen ratings that are leaked online. In the modern era, TV ratings are a shit metric.

From what I was seeing ad groups and networks do not give a damn about any raw numbers, and solely care about show rank. A show dropping from 2.3 to a 1.1 will mean nothing but if you drop from 2nd to 3rd it will raise alarm. At least for live TV. I presume time watched is the metric for streaming.

To be fair, C, I haven’t said Nielsen. I’ve said ratings. That includes any and all services, including things like iSpot.

I’ve never heard of rank as a measure for success, but I only have cursory exposure to this industry.

My overall point, though, is that ratings are as good a proxy of audience interest as we have. More people watching is good. Less people watching is bad. Flat ratings and flat PPV buys tell me a company is financially stagnant. That doesn’t mean it’s going to collapse tomorrow, but flat trends are obviously more at-risk of declining. Everyone wants growth, including TV companies that write big, multi-million dollar contracts. A lack of that growth will make it hard for TK to go in and ask for more at renewals. That’s also not great, because again, growth is (or I should say, should be) the goal.

Back to the point: Rollins, IMO, wont move the needle revenue/ratings/interest-wise one iota, but I would guess TK will have to overspend to get him. If nothing changes, what’s the value of signing? That’s the question I ask myself every time I see AEW with a new big contract. What did they gain?

Some things are bigger than clout chasing by going to AEW.

He and Becky are both working the same show, hence time together and both being present raising their child, collectively. As a family.

Both are made men in WWE, it'd be for nothing more than ego going to AEW.

Sure, if Becky were going too or had retired early, then giddy-up, go for it. But don't do it now and sacrifice the family dynamics.

Tony doesn't need to sign anymore before getting rid of some. Because some of his toys from previous years were really good and barely played with them.

The state of the women division is probably a deal breaker for Becky.

Jungle boy trademarking Jurassic Express and A Boy and his Dinosaur. Guessing he is not the devil afterall and they are giving him back Luchasaur. Really, this is what he was best at anyway. Solo Jungle Boy just did not work. Hopefully this means he also is not the Devil.

Dec 12, 2023 15:35:12 GMT X-zero said:

Tony doesn't need to sign anymore before getting rid of some. Because some of his toys from previous years were really good and barely played with them.

The state of the women division is probably a deal breaker for Becky.

Yeah, Tyler Black would be in a good place in AEW, but not Becky.  And that is why I think the pair will stay in WWE in the end.  Becky did not come back from a career ending injury to sit home.  

What is ironic is while they will like resign with WWE, both want to expand their Hollywood work so they will be off TV for extended periods of time anyway if they get more Hollywood gigs.  And Becky KILLED it in the Young Rock so I am sure at least she is getting looks.  Seth gets his chance to show off in Captain America.  

Dec 12, 2023 17:32:50 GMT c said:

Jungle boy trademarking Jurassic Express and A Boy and his Dinosaur. Guessing he is not the devil afterall and they are giving him back Luchasaur. Really, this is what he was best at anyway. Solo Jungle Boy just did not work. Hopefully this means he also is not the Devil.

Reverting back to Jungle Express does not sound like a good idea at all. I get that I'm in the minority being one of the few people who kinda liked Jack Perry as a heel.

Dec 12, 2023 18:26:04 GMT Emperor said:

Dec 12, 2023 17:32:50 GMT c said:

Jungle boy trademarking Jurassic Express and A Boy and his Dinosaur. Guessing he is not the devil afterall and they are giving him back Luchasaur. Really, this is what he was best at anyway. Solo Jungle Boy just did not work. Hopefully this means he also is not the Devil.

Reverting back to Jungle Express does not sound like a good idea at all. I get that I'm in the minority being one of the few people who kinda liked Jack Perry as a heel.

Think that is the majority opinion. Only reason people like him as a face is the sing along.

From what I seen most people do not like him either way. He has been off TV for months and never see people asking for him to return.

Speaking of returns Thunder Rosa say she is ready to come back finally.

Please come back La Mera Mera. I miss her so much.

Jack Perry saving Luchasaurus Killswitch from Christian would be a fun face turn but I kinda wanted his heel side to flesh out a little more. Feels like he barely got a chance to run with it. And he has the perfect way to return that will make AEW fans fume. “I’m the reason CM Punk is making WWE money now.”

Also Luchasaurus JUST changed his name. Feels way too reactionary and quick. If that is where this is headed. Who knows maybe it is for a book or something.

Wouldn't it make sense for Perry to join Christian, as he, you know, doesn't have a father.

Dave has made a tweet about Raw TV rights making progress and that Punk is a huge selling point … and the online interpretation of his vagueness is it’s about WBD’s interest.

If WBD drops AEW for WWE, and Punk is part of the reason, that might be the funniest thing ever.

I assume if Disney wants Raw, they are getting Raw. Most other channels in bidding are cutting content for costs.

Also WBD it appeared wanted both WWE and AEW on their channels to do a home of wrestling thing.

Dec 12, 2023 22:35:56 GMT c said:

I assume if Disney wants Raw, they are getting Raw. Most other channels in bidding are cutting content for costs.

Also WBD it appeared wanted both WWE and AEW on their channels to do a home of wrestling thing.

I highly, highly doubt WWE wants to be part of someone else’s “home of wrestling.” WWE, in their mind, *IS* wrestling.

If they in the midst of making the rumored deal with WBD that will see AEW kicked off the network, they will have two months where they are under contract with AEW though.

I just do not see them going to WBD though. Not at the rate they want. That is Disney money not WBD or Netflix money.  Which is likely why WBD was rumored to have already bowed out in Oct.  They literally were canceling shows for tax breaks without airing them.  Dropping 2 billion for a five year deal for WWE just does not seem to be in their future.

Also the whole idea that Punk adds a billion to a deal is absurd when the deal is about 400 million a year that WWE wants.  Would imply that Punk increases the total value of the deal by 50%.  I know it was a WBD exec that said it, but still stupid as fuck.  Hogan or Austin maybe added that.  Punk def does not.  

Dec 12, 2023 22:58:11 GMT c said:

If they in the midst of making the rumored deal with WBD that will see AEW kicked off the network, they will have two months where they are under contract with AEW though.

I just do not see them going to WBD though. Not at the rate they want. That is Disney money not WBD or Netflix money.  Which is likely why WBD was rumored to have already bowed out in Oct.  They literally were canceling shows for tax breaks without airing them.  Dropping 2 billion for a five year deal for WWE just does not seem to be in their future.

Also the whole idea that Punk adds a billion to a deal is absurd when the deal is about 400 million a year that WWE wants.  Would imply that Punk increases the total value of the deal by 50%.  I know it was a WBD exec that said it, but still stupid as fuck.  Hogan or Austin maybe added that.  Punk def does not.  

To be fair, WBD saw firsthand the bump Punk did for their shows … and the decline since. That may be enticing. But we don’t know what figures are real.

If WWE did go there, WBD would likely cancel AEW before the end of their contract to avoid overlap.

Brandon Thurston getting absolutely hammered now for his analysis of AEW's profitability. He has them listed as losing 34 million but details in his analysis are interesting. He sees Tony paying 50% more on average than WWE to workers, paying the same administrative costs as WWE and the same marketing costs in terms of percentage of income. Assume as well no merchandise is sold. And the best would be assuming Tony takes a multi-million dollar income.

So he claims AEW is not profitable mainly because it has the same global expenses as WWE, and the same level of corporate overhead that goes with that, while also paying talent far more than they would get in WWE.

Majority of the estimates were back of the envelope math. One thing to do just bullshitting on a forum or what not. Another thing to do when you are selling it to people as expert opinion.

Dec 12, 2023 22:35:56 GMT c said:

I assume if Disney wants Raw, they are getting Raw. Most other channels in bidding are cutting content for costs.

Also WBD it appeared wanted both WWE and AEW on their channels to do a home of wrestling thing.

Not up on video streaming financials but is Disney expanding?

Like you said, pretty much everyone else are looking to reduce spending and I had just sorta figured Disney, with having Fox properties and Star Wars and Marvel wouldn't be looking to bring anything on.

Or hoard their cash and make a big push when NFL or NBA contracts re-up

FX is bidding on it. They are owned by Disney.  Assumed right now that this is where Raw ends up.

Dave is being vague on purpose because he A) doesn't know shit and B) knows he can push traffic if he lets people think this is about AEW/WBD.

In reality, this either makes USA shell out even more cash to keep Raw so they can air both WWE flagship shows, or FX/Fox/Disney is going to splash like $2 billion to get Raw.

WBD is happy with AEW and they'll get outbid even if they do want Raw.

Dec 13, 2023 2:42:12 GMT RT said:

Dave is being vague on purpose because he A) doesn't know shit and B) knows he can push traffic if he lets people think this is about AEW/WBD.

In reality, this either makes USA shell out even more cash to keep Raw so they can air both WWE flagship shows, or FX/Fox/Disney is going to splash like $2 billion to get Raw.

WBD is happy with AEW and they'll get outbid even if they do want Raw.

I mean … maybe he is? SRS has avoided commenting because he doesn’t want to get shit on for saying something people don’t want to hear. But he alluded to hearing similar.

I don’t think USA is in the running for it. I haven’t heard an update on Disney, but I do know Iger is under pressure.

David Zazlov is fucking ruthless though. I wouldn’t trust anything he’s said about AEW with how willingly he’s burned bridges.

Dec 13, 2023 4:03:06 GMT KJ said:

Dec 13, 2023 2:42:12 GMT RT said:

Dave is being vague on purpose because he A) doesn't know shit and B) knows he can push traffic if he lets people think this is about AEW/WBD.

In reality, this either makes USA shell out even more cash to keep Raw so they can air both WWE flagship shows, or FX/Fox/Disney is going to splash like $2 billion to get Raw.

WBD is happy with AEW and they'll get outbid even if they do want Raw.

I mean … maybe he is? SRS has avoided commenting because he doesn’t want to get shit on for saying something people don’t want to hear. But he alluded to hearing similar.

I don’t think USA is in the running for it. I haven’t heard an update on Disney, but I do know Iger is under pressure.

David Zazlov is fucking ruthless though. I wouldn’t trust anything he’s said about AEW with how willingly he’s burned bridges.

Yeah.  Just look at what Zazlov did to Max.  I wouldn't trust a word from this guy.

Not to point out the obvious, but isn't it weird not a single AEW talent outside of CJ Perry was on hand at the Iron Claw Premier?