Feb 9, 2018 16:59:37 GMT Emperor said:

I pretty much went for best matches with the biggest guys remaining. I generally tried to avoid niche matches (modern NJPW, anything indy, older Japan matches) because they will probably be a non-factor in a lot of people's thought process when voting. My last pick was purely personal. Not convinced anyone besides myself has watched Tenryu vs Tsuruta. I don't herald it as an all time great match like some do, but I couldn't resist grabbing some old AJPW and one of my favourite wrestlers in Jumbo.

I'm generally happy with how my draft went. I was never robbed of anything I really wanted and could reasonably expect to get.

I can't vouch for other voters, but I genuinely intend to find and watch the matches I haven't seen before when voting. Unlike normal drafts where I might not be familiar with certain wrestlers but have no real way of gaining quick familiarity, matches are pretty self-contained and thus in a way much easier to digest and in turn form an opinion on. It'll be curious, however, to see how matches hold up if they relied on backstory headed in. For instance, I won't know ANY of the backstory for some of the famous Japanese matches selected. But I wonder if that'll even matter? The matches as they stand alone might very well be strong enough for it to be a nonfactor.

Another "about time!" pick with Jumbo/Tenryu. Match quality, big match feel, hot crowd, influence, peak of a classic feud. Has the lot. Though I completely understand why it has taken this long for someone to pick it.

This was going to be the first match I was going to list, after all picks had been made, of big-time matches still available that had not been selected. Bruno/Larry Z was another, so there is some good last round selections going on.

Don't worry 🤯, you can easily get the bare bones context of it and will be able to appreciate it I'm sure.

That was a really good time. This can definitely go more rounds next time.

We got through this much quicker then anticipated and it's been a blast. I'll randomise the draw and put 2 of the 4 first round matchups up sometime in the next 24 hours.

Now that we're wrapped up, what are some matches you guys would've tried to grab if this were a 10 round draft?

I'll keep my mouth shut for now then. I was going to list the top matches that came to mind that had been left on the table. But it will be more fun to hear what the participants think. There isn't much that I can think of in terms of US matches from the mid-80s onwards, which I think is a good indicator that the picks were well made.

Actually, I will name one, since this is definitely a lesser option and more of a pick to get something different on your card - Jake/Martel Blindfold match at Mania VII. You get a very big name in Jake, a former World Champ in Martel and a comedy match to give your show something different, but one that has real heat and is a blowoff.

I deleted my list after making my last pick, but at that point I had very few matches on my list, mostly a list of wrestlers that hadn't been picked. What do I remember?

One of Snuka's cage matches - either vs Muraco from 83 or vs Backlund from 82. My research indicates the latter is the better match, but the former contains the cage leap that WWE loves to air all the time. This is likely what I would have gone for if I decided against Tenryu vs Jumbo.

I considered one of Shane O Mac's matches. vs Kane or vs Test. Also some of the 90s NJPW juniors. Ultimo Dragon, Great Sasuke. Didn't look at any matches though. If the draft had gone on for 2+ more rounds, I might have started thinking about WWECW matches or Smackdown matches from the late 2000s. Goldust vs Sheamus. Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry. Finlay vs Lashley or vs JBL (was he picked?). Those kinda matches.

I'm a little surprised none of the big matches from pre-80s went. Lou Thesz, Bruno Sammartino. Those guys. I guess we all decided that it wasn't a good idea to go that far back, especially since a lot of these matches are unwatchable.

Feb 10, 2018 12:15:12 GMT Strobe said:

I'll keep my mouth shut for now then. I was going to list the top matches that came to mind that had been left on the table. But it will be more fun to hear what the participants think. There isn't much that I can think of in terms of US matches from the mid-80s onwards, which I think is a good indicator that the picks were well made.

Actually, I will name one, since this is definitely a lesser option and more of a pick to get something different on your card - Jake/Martel Blindfold match at Mania VII. You get a very big name in Jake, a former World Champ in Martel and a comedy match to give your show something different, but one that has real heat and is a blowoff.

Fuck that, my man! Go ahead and list 'em!

Fair shout with the Blindfold Match. It honestly didn't even cross my mind. I'm sure there are a bunch that didn't... Even despite having such a long short list to work with for quick reference.

Feb 10, 2018 13:55:06 GMT Emperor said:

I deleted my list after making my last pick, but at that point I had very few matches on my list, mostly a list of wrestlers that hadn't been picked. What do I remember?

One of Snuka's cage matches - either vs Muraco from 83 or vs Backlund from 82. My research indicates the latter is the better match, but the former contains the cage leap that WWE loves to air all the time. This is likely what I would have gone for if I decided against Tenryu vs Jumbo.

I considered one of Shane O Mac's matches. vs Kane or vs Test. Also some of the 90s NJPW juniors. Ultimo Dragon, Great Sasuke. Didn't look at any matches though. If the draft had gone on for 2+ more rounds, I might have started thinking about WWECW matches or Smackdown matches from the late 2000s. Goldust vs Sheamus. Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry. Finlay vs Lashley or vs JBL (was he picked?). Those kinda matches.

I'm a little surprised none of the big matches from pre-80s went. Lou Thesz, Bruno Sammartino. Those guys. I guess we all decided that it wasn't a good idea to go that far back, especially since a lot of these matches are unwatchable.

I deleted mine as soon as I was done drafting too as a way of getting some cathartic relief for all the hand-wringing along the way.

Muraco/Snuka was on my list, but I figured Umaga/Jeff was better from an overall match quality standpoint and from a cage dive standpoint.

I debated a Shane match too despite my issues with the overall concept of Shane matches. I feel like an idiot for forgetting the Test match. I would've likely gone with the Father vs. Son match.

Ultimo was hanging out in my short list, but his best opponents (IMO) all disappeared pretty quick. I was keeping him on the short list though with his match against Yuji Nagata from Halloween Havoc... But that was really just a way of trying to potentially squeeze a personal favorite in Nagata onto my match list.

Instead of the Motor City Machine Gun Showdown, I was also considering getting Juventud Guerrera onto my list with either a match against Kidman or Blitzkrieg. I just liked the story and crispness of Shelley/Sabin better, personally.

I'm glad Bruno/Larry was snagged in the end. That was on my short list, and I opted for DiBiase/Duggan over it. The problem with Bruno's and earlier eras, for me, is that I haven't seen a lot of those matches, nor heard of many being that heralded, so nothing springed to mind to even research and watch for consideration.

I feel like a massive idiot for forgetting Shane vs Vince :lol: The trouble is, I was looking at it through the lens of Kane's best matches (just for ideas), so I wasn't really thinking of Shane as the protagonist. That said, his matches vs Kurt Angle and AJ Styles entered my head, but not the Vince match. That's a huge miss in my opinion.

Oh, someone did pick a Bruno Sammartino match. Didn't even notice until reading the post above :lol:

I didn't have any "big matches" left over, but I had did have six matches left over and one name.

Juventud Guerrera vs. Blitzkrieg (WCW Spring Stampede '99). One of the 20 best WCW matches? It's close. Would make a fine opener.

Ultimo Dragon vs. Shinjaro Otani (J Crown: 8/5/96). I think this match is a little overrated (near fall spamming), but it's still a pretty awesome match.

Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera (WWWF Texas Death Match: Didn't look up the date): I guess this could count as a big match. I've never seen it, but it's well regarded.

2 Cold Scorpio vs. Shane Douglas (ECW A Matter of Respect): Shane was on a roll this during this period, and this was Scorpio's best match available.

James Storm vs Chris Harris: Texas Death Match (TNA Sacrifice 2007): I'v seen less than 10 TNA matches ever, but this was one of them and it was pretty awesome. I figured it'd be a nice match to have listed in case things got desperate late, as it would probably be forgotten.

Paul London vs. Michael Shane (ROH Unscripted): Same idea as Storm vs. Harris, except I figured less likely to be forgotten. The birth of the "Please Don't Die" chant.

Arn Anderson: Not picked. I thought about squeezing his match against Muta in at one point, but then Muta got picked in a better match, anyway. 

By all means Strobe talk about some matches that got missed that others might not have brought up overnight, wise insight is always welcomed.

I've gone ahead and visited random.org again for the matches and it looks like this.

PI
Emperor
RT
Baker
Kilgore
Shootist
Dazz
Oncall
Timestamp: 2018-02-11 00:47:05 UTC

First two matches of PI vs Emperor and RT vs Baker will be up in the next little while. Polls to stay open for 3 days.

Pretty much all of the more obvious matches I was thinking of from the 80s until today in the US have now been brought up.

Backlund/Patera is an obvious choice as Kilgore mentioned. Classic match at MSG, widely regarded as the best match of Backlund's near 6-year reign, Observer MOTY. It would have been a strong pick and I was anticipating it being snapped up late on.

And from that same time period, either of the big Snuka cage matches as Emperor brought up would be good options for the splash moments alone. The Muraco one is the more famous and therefore probably the better pick. I've haven't seen the entire Backlund match, but the ending is fantastic. Everything is deliberate, looks impactful. The slow speed and the sound of the mat just makes it all so visceral, even in black-and-white to protect the poor children from the sight of blood. Then Snuka's missed splash is just a tremendous, all-time great spot.

Vince/Shane was a match I was thinking someone might use their last pick on. I think it would be a sneakily good pick as it may be the best of its kind - overbooked sports entertainment match that just works (well, apart from Austin/Dude OTE but Vince/Shane is different as it's between two "non-wrestlers"). 🤯 made the right call taking DiBiase/Duggan over this though.

Kilgore has a fine collection of highly regarded, lesser (in terms of stature) matches there that would've been good 9 and 10 picks like Juvy/Blitz, Douglas/Scorp and London/Shane.

And yeah, Arn felt like the guy getting left out, but most of his best stuff is in tags and his top singles matches are against guys who were pretty much always going to get picked in other matches.

Emp brought up the 90s New Japan juniors, where lots of the top top matches get taken away once Liger is picked and Benoit also takes away two of the more famous matches as well (Sasuke J Cup Final 94, Eddie BOTSJ SF 96). So you are not left with many options that have the immediate name value to voters who may not know who El Samurai or Kanemoto are. Kilgore mentioned what is probably the best option left, Ultimo vs. Otani in the J Crown SF, because you don't just have the match quality but at least two workers that appeared in WCW and hence have that name recognition.

In terms of New Japan though, Hashimoto was there for someone to grab. The biggest draw in Japan in the 90s. While Muta and Tenryu take away two of the obvious options for him, you still have Hashimoto/Takada right there. The climax of the biggest money-drawing feud in Japanese history - NJPW vs. UWFi. Two huge draws of their time at the Dome. Strong style vs. shoot style. And a classic in terms of match quality as well with a fantastic finish causing the Dome crowd to go fucking molten. But unlike Muta, Chono, Sasaki or even Nagata, Hash did not appear in WCW and he didn't quite get the big pimping that the All Japan guys (rightfully) did from Meltzer back in the day, so he isn't as well-known as he should be and it makes him perhaps a tough pick to go for, especially against a shoot style guy who also won't be as well known to your standard hardcore fan. Even if the match, on paper, is an elite pick for the reasons I mentioned above.

And that is the obvious reason why there were no lucha, no shoot style, no joshi, no pre-89 Japan, no Europe, no PR picks. You want to pick a great match, but you want your voting audience to have seen the match or at least heard about it or know a bit about the wrestlers. I think with 9th and 10th picks, some of these matches would become more viable though, especially under the guise of getting something different on the card.

Hokuto/Kandori is probably well-known enough to be a worthwhile pick (unlike say Chigusa/Dump, Chigusa/Devil or Jaguar/Lioness). As is the Kudo/Toyoda death match, giving you a death match and women's match. Or one of Onita's big matches - Funk was picked but Hayabusa is pretty well-known stateside.

Unless you were picking a Rey/Psicosis match from AAA, picking a classic lucha match would probably not be of too much help. And going further into the past with Japan would have probably had diminishing returns. I don't think Inoki/Fujinami or Baba/Robinson would be helping too many people out here. Although it would've been cool for someone to stick Rikidozan/Thesz on their card.

Feb 11, 2018 0:56:04 GMT Call said:

By all means Strobe talk about some matches that got missed that others might not have brought up overnight, wise insight is always welcomed.

I've gone ahead and visited random.org again for the matches and it looks like this.

PI
Emperor
RT
Baker
Kilgore
Shootist
Dazz
Oncall
Timestamp: 2018-02-11 00:47:05 UTC

First two matches of PI vs Emperor and RT vs Baker will be up in the next little while. Polls to stay open for 3 days.

Fuck, there's a chance it might take me more than three days to watch matches, especially if the start stacking.

3 days is just what i'm used to. I guess I could leave the next ones open for 5, give everyone extra time.

We've got our first two winners, Emperor and Baker

The other 2 first round matches will be posted later today. These will be open for 5 days instead of 3 so people can have longer to watch matches if they so choose.

Since there was no consensus on steals, i've decided that for this draft, we'll be leaving them alone. Maybe in the next iteration steals can take place. They just feel different in this draft compared to all the others.

This is definitely a very cool draft concept, I'd love to get in on this if we do another one later this year.

The first round matches have finished and your 4 winners are

Emperor Baker Kilgore and @the Dazz

Random.org tells me that the 2 semi finals of Kilgore vs Emperor and Baker vs Dazz will be going up later today, they'll be open for 5 days before a 7 day finale.

Our 2 finalists have been determined. It'll be Emperor vs Dazz in the final.

The final itself will last for a week and be posted during the Elimination Chamber PPV. While i'm here i'd just like to take a proper moment to say thanks to everyone who signed up and expressed interest in this idea. I don't usually have good PW ideas so to see this one go so well and talks of future versions to come, it's just nice you know.

For a trial run this has gone pretty bloody well and i've seen some matches I otherwise wouldn't have been inclined to track down.

This draft is awesome, and I'm in the final against by favourite lineup in this whole thing (and one that has faced some pretty big criticism). I figured relatively old matches would prevail in a HoW tournament, but Dazz has proven me wrong. He's still going down!

May the best roster win Emperor,