There's irony in the EVPs and their cheap suits walking around trying to convince people Okada is a big deal - " call him by his full name, The Rainmaker.... " then, despite their perceived stroke, he debuts against.... Adrian Alanis, Jon Cruz & Liam Gray. Nothing says " I'm a big deal " like a tag match with The Young Bucks vs 3 guys no one has heard of.

And, let's not forget. It's not The Rainmaker w/ The Young Bucks.. it's The Elite, and now they're entering into a program with The Death Triangle... so, quickly in 3 weeks, Okada has become the meat in a Young Buck trios sandwich.

Ok, hypothetically, how could you do it better, playing by the rule Okada needs to start at the bottom?

OK, a debut match with KOR. It's a TV main event and it will deliver. You could have sold it weeks in advance and when KOR loses, his storyline with The UK continues with them trying to recruit him after his lose. And then, PAC attacks Okada upon his return. Then 2 weeks later, another TV main event, PAC v Okada. 2 weeks later he gets to leave Kingston in a sweaty mess, while giggling off those chops and takes the Triple Crown from that joker. 2 weeks later he murders Penta. And finally 2 weeks later The Elite defeat Death Triangle to close this feud.

I've just given you like 8 weeks of TV. Let's see who Okada wrestles next IRL, I bet it's Trent.. fingers crossed it is.

Then we move onto The Elite v BCC. And the many PPV level main events possible here.

Mar 15, 2024 21:00:38 GMT NATH45 said:

There's irony in the EVPs and their cheap suits walking around trying to convince people Okada is a big deal - " call him by his full name, The Rainmaker.... " then, despite their perceived stroke, he debuts against.... Adrian Alanis, Jon Cruz & Liam Gray. Nothing says " I'm a big deal " like a tag match with The Young Bucks vs 3 guys no one has heard of.

You're reaching. It's a squash match. You've watched wrestling long enough to know what that is.

Did you notice Okada effortlessly beating all three opponents single-handedly in about a minute?

Mar 15, 2024 21:00:38 GMT NATH45 said:

And, let's not forget. It's not The Rainmaker w/ The Young Bucks.. it's The Elite, and now they're entering into a program with The Death Triangle... so, quickly in 3 weeks, Okada has become the meat in a Young Buck trios sandwich.

If in six month's time Okada is competing for trios championships, this statement will have merit. He's wrestled two tag matches to settle him in, establish his character without early overexposure, and his third match will be a singles championship match. Hopefully he won't be permanently glued to the Bucks like Kenny was.

Your idea for Okada's booking is good in a vacuum, but given that Will Ospreay debuted with a similar schedule, having two NJPW guys debuting with big TV singles matches might get a bit stale.

I find strange this idea that a wrestler can't be a star if they wrestle a midcarder or if they appear every week. I understand it worked well for Lesnar, Reigns, MJF, but there are plenty of examples of top stars showing up every week and fighting midcarders. That's what Rock, Austin et al. did in the Attitude Era.

I'm sure if WWF signed Goldberg or Sting in 1999, they wouldn't debut in a squash match on Heat wrestling 3 guys that even The JOB wouldn't lie down for.

And then follow it up a week later with by engaging in a feud with The Hardys.

Sting would come down and hold a baseball bat to the throat of Undertaker and Goldberg would put a hole through Rocky with a monster spear.

Instead you're advocating a massive star work some mid card guys to balance out the roster. Come on...

Urgency is key.

This is all sports entertainment stuff. Does not work on a wrestling show where you plan to have meaningful matches each week and not just on PPV.

Mar 16, 2024 2:31:38 GMT c said:

This is all sports entertainment stuff. Does not work on a wrestling show where you plan to have meaningful matches each week and not just on PPV.

lol. Where were the meaningful matches?

AEW's entire MO is illogical random matches.

If Okada went to WWE and debuted squashing the The D'Angelo family on Main Event and tagging with Grayson Waller and Austin Theory on Smackdown to beat up The New Day, the entire anti-WWE brigade would be up in arms.

TK has one of the greatest rosters ever, and everyone worth a damn is doing side quests.

Wrestling shows get wrestling ratings. Less than 800k.

Maybe it’s time for AEW to shift to sports entertainment so it can start increasing its ratings?

Mar 16, 2024 17:41:27 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Wrestling shows get wrestling ratings. Less than 800k.

Maybe it’s time for AEW to shift to sports entertainment so it can start increasing its ratings?

The problem with that is you then fall into the trap TNA fell into when it started to knock on the door of becoming a major promotion. Impact turned into Raw Lite and TNA lost everything that made it different.

It is absolutely imperative AEW continue to be different IMO. They just have to do a better job of highlighting their talent.

Mar 16, 2024 17:48:30 GMT Todd said:

Mar 16, 2024 17:41:27 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Wrestling shows get wrestling ratings. Less than 800k.

Maybe it’s time for AEW to shift to sports entertainment so it can start increasing its ratings?

The problem with that is you then fall into the trap TNA fell into when it started to knock on the door of becoming a major promotion. Impact turned into Raw Lite and TNA lost everything that made it different.

It is absolutely imperative AEW continue to be different IMO. They just have to do a better job of highlighting their talent.

You can be sports entertainment and not be a copycat of WWE.

AEW has always been sports entertainment, their major point of difference is that they try to make everything on the show seem significant. Right now they haven't been successful presenting that formula and one of the side effects is that when they don't have something for a wrestler, they'll often disappear making them feel replaceable.

However when you have home invasions and nobody is getting arrested, suspended or written off TV - it's sports entertainment - and that's involving one of their 'top guys' right now. Same deal with this EVPs gimmick, Tony is happy to interject through Schiavone and make rulings on the fly but seems content for the Bucks to attack his announcers and lay out his talent right after a gruelling tag team match with zero repercussions.

How many backstage segments get interrupted? How many matches end with a post-match attack? It's sports entertainment.

The professional wrestling vs sports entertainment talking point is a load of nonsense anyway. It’s the same thing. It was only created so non-WWE fans could gate-keep their idea of good wrestling.

It just reminds me of one of the early talking points where management tried to sell AEW as a sports-based Pro Wrestling show and then proceeded to book a gimmick Battle Royal with all these joke participants with the prize being a shot at becoming the inaugural World Champion of the company.

From that point on, they've never done anything to deviate from just being alternate WWE.

If they wanted to be like a sports based presentation, then the Continental Classic would be the norm. It's not and it's because of ratings. If Tony thought it would draw, he wouldn't hesitate to make the move. Instead he just relies on signing the biggest free agent talent he can get his hands on. Then he books his show like a game of Tetris, making sure all the blocks fit together, desperately trying to clear some space.

Funny how Wardlow got choked out & immediately became an afterthought. It didn't match Cole's story.

Mar 16, 2024 17:48:30 GMT Todd said:

Mar 16, 2024 17:41:27 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Wrestling shows get wrestling ratings. Less than 800k.

Maybe it’s time for AEW to shift to sports entertainment so it can start increasing its ratings?

The problem with that is you then fall into the trap TNA fell into when it started to knock on the door of becoming a major promotion. Impact turned into Raw Lite and TNA lost everything that made it different.

It is absolutely imperative AEW continue to be different IMO. They just have to do a better job of highlighting their talent.

TNA lost their chance for pretty much the opposite reasons. Bad promoting and bringing in names from the past that drove people away. Can't say Tony doesn't promote the hell out of his shows.

Mar 17, 2024 11:25:36 GMT X-zero said:

Mar 16, 2024 17:48:30 GMT Todd said:

The problem with that is you then fall into the trap TNA fell into when it started to knock on the door of becoming a major promotion. Impact turned into Raw Lite and TNA lost everything that made it different.

It is absolutely imperative AEW continue to be different IMO. They just have to do a better job of highlighting their talent.

TNA lost their chance for pretty much the opposite reasons. Bad promoting and bringing in names from the past that drove people away. Can't say Tony doesn't promote the hell out of his shows.

It depends on what you mean by bad promoting. TNA were pretty good at getting the word out when they signed big stars like Sting, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan etc. and you should tune into see them and 'Cross The Line'.

Mar 16, 2024 17:48:30 GMT Todd said:

Mar 16, 2024 17:41:27 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Wrestling shows get wrestling ratings. Less than 800k.

Maybe it’s time for AEW to shift to sports entertainment so it can start increasing its ratings?

The problem with that is you then fall into the trap TNA fell into when it started to knock on the door of becoming a major promotion. Impact turned into Raw Lite and TNA lost everything that made it different.

It is absolutely imperative AEW continue to be different IMO. They just have to do a better job of highlighting their talent.

The Bischoff/Hogan years irreparably destroyed that promotion.

And Homicide still hasn't gotten out of that cage.

Mar 17, 2024 12:56:50 GMT Big Pete said:

Mar 17, 2024 11:25:36 GMT X-zero said:

TNA lost their chance for pretty much the opposite reasons. Bad promoting and bringing in names from the past that drove people away. Can't say Tony doesn't promote the hell out of his shows.

It depends on what you mean by bad promoting. TNA were pretty good at getting the word out when they signed big stars like Sting, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan etc. and you should tune into see them and 'Cross The Line'.

TNA were awful at advertising their product. I think it was Kurt Angle who said he had WWE fans thinking he had retired while he was in TNA. And Hogan mentioned it during his reign of terror, that no one outside of the bubble knew who the likes of AJ Styles were. A quick google search on the topic you'll see forums talking about it as far back as 2010. Laziness, ego, a hobbiest owner, grass roots type mentality, etc.

I still remember the campaign they invested in when Kurt joined: "Our ring has six sides and One Angle."

It was actually good. But they stopped after maybe a month.

Mar 17, 2024 12:56:50 GMT Big Pete said:

Mar 17, 2024 11:25:36 GMT X-zero said:

TNA lost their chance for pretty much the opposite reasons. Bad promoting and bringing in names from the past that drove people away. Can't say Tony doesn't promote the hell out of his shows.

It depends on what you mean by bad promoting. TNA were pretty good at getting the word out when they signed big stars like Sting, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan etc. and you should tune into see them and 'Cross The Line'.

I rarely hear people just bring up AEW but I hear Tony Khan a lot of places promoting. TNA I heard mainly through word of mouth from people but barely remember stuff from the company promoting it. Probably why TNA felt like this cool underground thing in the early days.

It always felt like TNA was busy telling the people who already knew that TNA existed, that TNA existed. Instead of trying to capture a larger audience.

Mar 18, 2024 4:14:48 GMT X-zero said:

Mar 17, 2024 12:56:50 GMT Big Pete said:

It depends on what you mean by bad promoting. TNA were pretty good at getting the word out when they signed big stars like Sting, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan etc. and you should tune into see them and 'Cross The Line'.

I rarely hear people just bring up AEW but I hear Tony Khan a lot of places promoting. TNA I heard mainly through word of mouth from people but barely remember stuff from the company promoting it. Probably why TNA felt like this cool underground thing in the early days.

What places?

I mainly see him on Twitter, which was nowhere near as big during TNA's hey-day. If anything, AEW is often criticised for not promoting their shows enough. The few times they have like in New York recently, they drew a strong walk-up crowd.

TNA were awful at advertising their product.

Relative to the WWE, sure, but relative to AEW?

The one question I often see when a match is announced is 'who?' That doesn't say a lot for AEW's ability to promote their product.

Who?

Yeah. Not every throw away match needs an announcement.

Mar 18, 2024 4:59:31 GMT Big Pete said:

Mar 18, 2024 4:14:48 GMT X-zero said:

I rarely hear people just bring up AEW but I hear Tony Khan a lot of places promoting. TNA I heard mainly through word of mouth from people but barely remember stuff from the company promoting it. Probably why TNA felt like this cool underground thing in the early days.

What places?

I mainly see him on Twitter, which was nowhere near as big during TNA's hey-day. If anything, AEW is often criticised for not promoting their shows enough. The few times they have like in New York recently, they drew a strong walk-up crowd.

TNA were awful at advertising their product.

Relative to the WWE, sure, but relative to AEW?

The one question I often see when a match is announced is 'who?' That doesn't say a lot for AEW's ability to promote their product.

Tony use to/maybe still does advertise every Wednesday on Busted open and a few other wrestling focus podcasts. He runs ads on other stations besides the one AEW broadcast on. Twitter oh course good or bad he draws attention to himself.

While TNA barely ran ads even on their own station.

Mar 18, 2024 13:53:22 GMT X-zero said:

Tony use to/maybe still does advertise every Wednesday on Busted open and a few other wrestling focus podcasts.

I see, I wouldn't really count those appearances because it's preaching to the choir and it's an avenue TNA really didn't have the luxury of during it's hey-day. Admittedly I can't speak to the domestic experience as much and maybe after the revelations of the 'Your Wrestling Biography' where I had little idea TNA was airing on cable you may have a point.

They did promote the hell out of their PPVs over here and Double J did make a guest appearance on our biggest late night show to promote an event that never came to fruition.

Mar 15, 2024 11:15:39 GMT Emperor said:

You can't take every big name that enters the company and throw them straight into a program for the top championship. First, that gets stale quickly. Second, it discredits the active roster members who have been grinding for years. Third, it causes booking problems.

Let's say Okada enters the company, gets in Samoa Joe's face and challenges him for the world championship. Then you're undermining the stories you have with Swerve, Hangman and the Undisputed Kingdom, and whoever else was working towards Joe. How do you book the match? Either you have your new top star lose his first big match after which they likely end up in the midcard anyway, or you have your established champion go down to an outside talent. I'm not saying it's always a bad booking strategy but it needs to treated with care. It's not the right place for Okada to be right now.

Another example. Two months ago Deonna Purrazzo arrived and was immediately booked into a world championship program with Toni Storm, a feud that is still going. That's what you want, right? Would you want your new star Mercedes Mone to just enter the company, challenge Toni storm, and end the Deonna feud abruptly? I understand Mone is a bigger deal than Purrazzo but that's still not a good way to do things. Julia Hart is established. She's a champion who is currently not doing very much. A perfect slot for Mone to come in.

+1 to this

When TNA was up-and-coming, we made fun of "What's ____ doing in the Impact Zone" and watched as AJ Styles got shoved to the side, yet again, in an endless cavalcade of who got signed this month.

AEW is signing peeps and bringing them in at high level, but not top of the mountain roles. Okada is buddies with people who run the company, and Mercedes is -- well, kinda the victim of a women's division that can barely run more than one storyline at a time but maybe now they'll try?

Also rankings can work but yeah, you'd have to kayfabe the shit out of it, and probably incorporate a proprietary (secret) strength of schedule formula so three decisive wins over higher-profile opponents count more than tearing your way through the ROH undercard, and/or put title shots on the line during a feud or MiTB style get a random title shot. There's ways around it if one needs to.

If AEW's Facebook page is any indication, even the AEW fans aren't all that impressed by Banks being in AEW.

Being called unauthentic is perhaps the nicest thing anyone has called her since her debut.

Yes, it's all men. And men are bad. But they also pay to see wrestling.

Felt like the people most interested in her coming to AEW were not people who watched AEW weekly. In AEW circles felt people always were mid on her joining from the start. She has a boring gimmick that is played out and is just ok in the ring. Sure she was in WWE, but that does not matter as much in AEW as AEW fans more want the top indy guys and international talent than WWE stars.

IMO Tony just spent an insane amount of cash on a midcarder who will have the same problem that many WWE guys are having in AEW when they are not treated as the top talents. She will likely take her ball and go home to cry in a few months when her first run ends. Sure not all WWE guys do this, but a whole a lot did.

But I did know her before she became Sasha Banks, and Mercedes KV was a young hungry scrapper on the New England circuit that was a very quiet person with no ego. We get that Mercedes in AEW, and she could prove everyone completely wrong.

Like Banks always had the potential to be truly great, but always was her ego that held her back.  That ego gets put into check, and she moves to a different gimmick than just I am the best, and we could see her finally move to a different level.  

Instagram is not much better. People don't buy the bullshit, the lack of authenticity. There's nothing genuine about her is the common theme.

You can argue that the majority of the comments are from " WWE Marks " just hate posting and it's potentially not reflective of the company's actual audience, but you'd expect some defence from fans.

To your point c about taking her ball and going home, what's the bet if you put her up against say, Brit Baker, that the audience would turn on Banks in favour of Brit very quickly?

Mar 19, 2024 22:15:14 GMT NATH45 said:

Instagram is not much better. People don't buy the bullshit, the lack of authenticity. There's nothing genuine about her is the common theme.

You can argue that the majority of the comments are from " WWE Marks " just hate posting and it's potentially not reflective of the company's actual audience, but you'd expect some defence from fans.

To your point c about taking her ball and going home, what's the bet if you put her up against say, Brit Baker, that the audience would turn on Banks in favour of Brit very quickly?

Britt is going to get the Triple H treatment when she returns, ie: Triple H tore his quad and was a heel, missed substantial time, then came back to one of the biggest pops in Raw history.

Same will happen for Britt. AEW OG that is well-liked and overcoming a significant injury. If she returns to face Mone, then Mone better already be a heel or prepared to play the part.

...

I called this last week, didn't I? I fully expected Mone to do a heel turn at the end of the show. They didn't pull the trigger, which is fine, but this is EXACTLY what I said would happen.

If this turns into The Codyverse 2.0 because they try to force Mone as a face and the fans end up turning on her, I might scream.

I think it is very likely the fans turn on Banks very fast if she comes out doing her WWE gimmick as a super face who is the best at everything that everyone loves and adores. She forces a WWE gimmick, she will get turned on, and likely go home heat when she cannot back the talk in the ring.

Britt def will get a hero's welcome when she returns. A lot were upset at one point she was so forced on fans, but fact remains Britt does not need to ever wrestle, and keeps a day job. She is there because she loves it. And the fact she worked hurt for so long endears her to fans as well. I think she returns and can work at her best again, she will be the top face. At least until Hayter returns.

That said there is a path for a great heel Britt, coming back and aligning with Sayara against all new people who think they can just walk in and take over AEW.

But this shows the difference really between Britt and Banks. Britt you can mold into different characters to fit the situation, Banks you have mold the situations to her character right now.