So today I found out my mother is letting my 13 year old sister take hormone blockers as she wants to be male. (I’m the oldest of six and haven’t lived at home in years so don’t see family that much).
It all started when a boy thought she was a boy (she was wearing a hat) and she was outraged, and then it somehow morphed into this.

Surely I’m not the only one who thinks that’s messed up? I told of my disbelief and just got “why can’t you just be supportive?!”. Sure, transition later in life, but at 13 is ridiculous in my opinion.

You can’t get a tattoo at 13, but start “transitioning” which is way more life altering? Sure. At that age I wasn’t allowed to hang out with my neighbours anymore because they misbehaved, by today’s logic that should have been my choice. If you asked me who I wanted to be st that age I would have been Cloud from FF7 or something equally stupid that I’m not that into anymore

My dad disapproves, but my parents are divorced. My mother has been dating a woman who hates kids and is an only child for about a decade now, and it’s negatively affected my younger siblings IMO.
My dad is also a headcase though, so it’s not like he’s the sensible one either.

For the parents of PW how would you feel if your child wanted to transition at such a young age?

Damn bro. That’s tough.

I mean, as a father to be, I would be extremely against it. On a disowning against it stance.

I totally agree with what you’re saying about us as kids. Life changed, man. I wish you the best of luck.

I would never disown my kids if they wanted transition at that age, but I also wouldn't allow it either without TONS of medical evidence that it would be the best thing for their mental health.    . That is WAY too life altering a decision to be made at that age.

Personally, I find it incredible we almost force 16-18 year olds to make life altering decisions at their age, let alone 13. And we wonder why so many people wander through their entire 20s with no idea who they are or what direction their life should take.

A 13 year old, no way. Slow down kiddo. As for an adult transitioning, no worries. Do whatever you want.

I’m about as blue as it gets, and I wouldn’t let my child transition via chemicals. Sorry, you can start at 18. Until then, dress how you want. But I’m not letting you make a decision of that magnitude in the throes of adolescence.

May 12, 2018 1:47:45 GMT KING KID said:

Damn bro. That’s tough.

I mean, as a father to be, I would be extremely against it. On a disowning against it stance.

I totally agree with what you’re saying about us as kids. Life changed, man. I wish you the best of luck.

You would disown your child if they transitioned as an adult? Or if they wanted to as a child?

I would love to know the level of psychological testing that went on. Make sure it isn't delusion or dysphoria.

Love how a child is mature enough to make this decision but a 30 something with no kids still has to jump through hoops to get sterilized.

May 12, 2018 14:00:47 GMT @ness said:

Love how a child is mature enough to make this decision but a 30 something with no kids still has to jump through hoops to get sterilized.

This is actually a pretty great point , but the same can apply to the right to abortions and so on and so forth. I would love to get snipped and already have one kid but it's an impossible process. 

Having said that , disowning a child based on what he or she wants to be is about as shitty of a human being thing you can do. Disowning your children for anything short of probably a heinous crime is pretty fucking shitty. 

What is the vasectomy process? I’ve never heard of it being tough before and knew a guy who had one by the time he was 22.

Also I think they general consensus fits me. I don’t care if my daughter one days decides to transition and she can wear what she wants... but she’s not doing anything chemical at 13.

I find it endlessly fascinating that if you want to cut off your arm because you do not identify with it you need psychological help. But if you want to cut off your breasts or penis, well then by all means go for it.

May 12, 2018 2:35:34 GMT KJ said:

May 12, 2018 1:47:45 GMT KING KID said:

Damn bro. That’s tough.

I mean, as a father to be, I would be extremely against it. On a disowning against it stance.

I totally agree with what you’re saying about us as kids. Life changed, man. I wish you the best of luck.

You would disown your child if they transitioned as an adult? Or if they wanted to as a child?

Both. 

No. I don't support changing. Come out as queer all you want to, but electing to go under the knife to change what we were given at birth is barbaric IMO. I do not agree with it under any circumstances unless the child is born with both sets of genitalia and then the parents have to choose. I personally believe it's the way people are raised. If you try to rationalize it with this is genetic DNA kicking in making them choose this, it's not. There HAS to be a underlying mental illness and I don't think kids need to be exposed to anything gay before they are forced to interact in school. Personally I think if your child identifies as gay, they should be separated from the rest of the school. A neutral classroom with all the technology at their disposal as the rest of the students without the disruptive behavior. Women outnumber us guys 2 or 3 to 1 and some dudes want to talk feminine and suck a pecker? If you CHOOSE to be gay, that's fine. Don't dress flamboyant, don't talk like a girl when you're rocking a Viking beard, and act normal in public. What you CHOOSE to do in the privacy of your own home isn't my business. Just don't force this behavior on the rest of the world.

May 13, 2018 5:10:52 GMT KING KID said:

May 12, 2018 2:35:34 GMT KJ said:

You would disown your child if they transitioned as an adult? Or if they wanted to as a child?

Both. 

I'm going to say this as politely as I can. 

That is a truly disgusting bit of potential behaviour. I do agree that a child should be 18 before any chemical changes take place, 13 is no time for that sort of decision. At 18 though, what your child wants to do with their body is their right. You'd really make your child endure a life of misery just because you can't deal with it?

You don't know their potential future struggle, maybe they will identify as the opposite gender. As a father, you should love your child in pretty much any circumstance. The only real exceptions are what UT said. If my child ended up being a murderer or some other sort of felon, i'd struggle to still love them.

Every child deserves to grow up feeling loved in their own home and that's something you need to figure out, quick.

Here is a question I have for those who are fully accepting of the trans identity in terms of gender. Where do you become less than accepting?


This guy?
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

Trans racial like Rachel dolezal and the guy who identified filipino or the British or german lady with black skin and basketball tits?

People who identify animal?
Tree kin?

Other kin who can even identify as mythical creatures such as dragons.

I am not saying it's a slippery slope. I hate that general concept.

I just know where you draw the line. It's kind of like asking "how many genders are there?"

May 13, 2018 5:10:52 GMT KING KID said:

May 12, 2018 2:35:34 GMT KJ said:

You would disown your child if they transitioned as an adult? Or if they wanted to as a child?

Both. 

Loving home that kid is being brought into ...

May 13, 2018 12:50:45 GMT theend said:

Here is a question I have for those who are fully accepting of the trans identity in terms of gender. Where do you become less than accepting?


This guy?
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

Trans racial like Rachel dolezal and the guy who identified filipino or the British or german lady with black skin and basketball tits?

People who identify animal?
Tree kin?

Other kin who can even identify as mythical creatures such as dragons.

I am not saying it's a slippery slope. I hate that general concept.

I just know where you draw the line. It's kind of like asking "how many genders are there?"

 - Identifying as a tree or a dragon or an attack helicopter isn't an actual thing. Like doctor-lawyers who make eight figures a year, people make it up as a joke and you don't find anyone who seriously does it. Unlike billionaire doctor-lawyers, though, transgenderism is a real thing and the posters riffing off of it for a laugh derail the conversation, delegitimatize their problems and make the world that much incrementally shittier for them because the joke makes a neutral party unable to see a difference between a man thinking he should have been a woman and a (fictional) man who sexually identifies as a dolphin.

 - Not sure what to make of the transracial folk. I think the biggest issue with Rachel Dolezal is that she didn't make it clear she was white; (implicitly) stating that she is *and always has been* black. The transracial Filipino dude makes no secret about not being born Filipino, which makes him more of a super weeaboo or those Americans who are WAY WAY TOO into British pop culture. If a white guy were born and raised in the Philippines, spoke perfect Tagalog from being in the country his entire life I don't think anyone would think twice about him stating he felt very Filipino on the inside, so I dunno.



Buuuuuut as far as the original thread topic goes, I really don't know what I would do if it were my kid. Going off the assumption it's been a lifelong theme (if it's a fleeting thing like when you were five and you wanted to be a firefighter this week, last week you wanted to be an astronaut and next week you'll want to be a rockstar then obviously it's a nonstarter) it would seem to me it's easier to start the changes *before* puberty and the hormones kick in rather than wait til the process is almost done and have to reverse the whole thing. Like, if your kid were left-handed why would you make him write/throw a ball/use a fork with his right hand and tell him he could only do his left-handed business when he becomes a legal adult? Now he's got to de-teach and relearn everything and you've just wasted years before and after the 18-y.o. mark for no reason.

I like claiming something is or isn't a thing but to some people it is most definitely a thing. We may call them delusional or mentally ill but it is an actual thing.

May 13, 2018 14:30:20 GMT KJ said:

May 13, 2018 5:10:52 GMT KING KID said:

Both. 

Loving home that kid is being brought into ...

Its a very loving home. I just don’t play that shit. 

May 13, 2018 20:45:40 GMT KING KID said:

May 13, 2018 14:30:20 GMT KJ said:

Loving home that kid is being brought into ...

Its a very loving home. I just don’t play that shit. 

You forgot the asterisk footnote that the love comes with conditions of adherence to your views of gender and sexuality.

I’ve known you a long time (and long before you became this radicalized person you are today), but damn Kid ... the idea you’d disown your own child if they were transgendered still surprises me.

May 13, 2018 21:17:14 GMT KJ said:

May 13, 2018 20:45:40 GMT KING KID said:

Its a very loving home. I just don’t play that shit. 

You forgot the asterisk footnote that the love comes with conditions of adherence to your views of gender and sexuality.

I’ve known you a long time (and long before you became this radicalized person you are today), but damn Kid ... the idea you’d disown your own child if they were transgendered still surprises me.

To be fair, I still haven’t had the kid so I don’t know what that feeling of “love” is. So who knows? Especially considering that my parents wanted to disown me for my out of religion/culture marriage. I guess you never know.

I doubt I would have to worry about that and I pray I don’t. I’m obviously not too fond of that lifestyle change though.

May 14, 2018 0:38:20 GMT KING KID said:

May 13, 2018 21:17:14 GMT KJ said:

You forgot the asterisk footnote that the love comes with conditions of adherence to your views of gender and sexuality.

I’ve known you a long time (and long before you became this radicalized person you are today), but damn Kid ... the idea you’d disown your own child if they were transgendered still surprises me.

To be fair, I still haven’t had the kid so I don’t know what that feeling of “love” is. So who knows? Especially considering that my parents wanted to disown me for my out of religion/culture marriage. I guess you never know.

I doubt I would have to worry about that and I pray I don’t. I’m obviously not too fond of that lifestyle change though.

I suppose the sheer fact your parents considered disowning you over marrying a Jewish woman would be enough to persuade you that following your heart, as cheesy as it sounds, is legitimate.

Statistically yeah, there’s probably a good chance you’ll raise a straight, healthy kid. But even raising them with this threat or animosity over others whose lifestyle you don’t agree with is pretty alarming.

May 14, 2018 0:38:20 GMT KING KID said:

May 13, 2018 21:17:14 GMT KJ said:

You forgot the asterisk footnote that the love comes with conditions of adherence to your views of gender and sexuality.

I’ve known you a long time (and long before you became this radicalized person you are today), but damn Kid ... the idea you’d disown your own child if they were transgendered still surprises me.

To be fair, I still haven’t had the kid so I don’t know what that feeling of “love” is. So who knows? Especially considering that my parents wanted to disown me for my out of religion/culture marriage. I guess you never know.

I doubt I would have to worry about that and I pray I don’t. I’m obviously not too fond of that lifestyle change though.

Yeah I was about to say you haven't had the kid yet..   It's A LOT different when you actually hold that baby in your arms, believe me.

May 12, 2018 14:00:47 GMT @ness said:

Love how a child is mature enough to make this decision but a 30 something with no kids still has to jump through hoops to get sterilized.

May 12, 2018 20:22:05 GMT mikec said:

What is the vasectomy process? I’ve never heard of it being tough before and knew a guy who had one by the time he was 22.

Also I think they general consensus fits me. I don’t care if my daughter one days decides to transition and she can wear what she wants... but she’s not doing anything chemical at 13.

I assume it differs by doctor. I asked mine for a vasectomy, he said he’d get me a referral and six weeks later I was on the table getting snipped. I don’t know anyone that has had an issue but I have read stories like Ness’ before where a doctor is more hesitant when the person doesn’t already have children or a medical reason why they need it.

As for the topic at hand, I’ve read that starting transition at adolescence can help with chemical imbalances in the brain and also prevent depression, suicidal tendencies, etc. I’m not read up on the subject to say for sure, but I’ve heard that is why transitioning before/during puberty can be beneficial.

If it were my kid I would consult as many professionals as I could and help them make an informed decision, as I would want if it were me.

I think it’s unfair to force a child to wait until they’re an adult to make a decision about their body. Your body does most of it’s growing and changing before you hit legal age, so how does that make any sense? And how often do you hear of people saying things like “I knew I was gay when I was 5.” It’s very common.

I actually have no idea what the vasectomy process is like. I've never bothered to pursue it myself. I don't want kids and do understand that men only have three choices when it comes to birth control (don't, snip or condoms). I play the lottery sparingly in a given year, so it seemed like a waste of time to pursue the procedure just to go from 99% to 100%. Plus Ness' ultra paranoid mindset would probably have me getting my count checked every month on the off chance they regrew...

I browse childfree sections online a lot (reddit, blogs, etc.) and it seems to be more of a burden to accomplish for women. Can't seem to get it done before 30 and doctors are hesitant to prescribe care because it could affect fertility even if said patient is against having children. One of the bigger "bingos" that get thrown at those who are against kids is they will change their mind and or they are too young. I don't know if it's fear of being sued by taking away parenthood from them or if doctors that work in that field are more likely to push their life script views on patients.

Choice when it comes to childbearing has always been a head scratcher to me. A 20-something woman is too immature/young to decide she really doesn't want to be a mother, but she isn't too immature/young to want to bring a child into this world? That's mostly what my post reflected. It's just silly to think a teenager can make the decision to inject themselves with hormones or whatever it is that a transgendered person requires but actual adults cannot make the decision on their own to not want kids.

Luckily I don't (*knock*) ever have to worry about if my kid will be transgender, but I'd imagine the Ness on Earth-2 would support them in anything that makes them happy so long as they are an adult and aren't hurting anyone.

The fact a woman who wants to get a hysterectomy can't proves how little they have accomplished in my body choice is rubbish.

A 20-something man is too immature/young to decide he really doesn't want to be a father, but he isn't too immature/young to want to bring a child into this world?

Does it change the meaning when I change the gender?

Does anyone actually remember how we went from LGB to LGBTQIABCDEFG overnight?

Transgender is a mental illness.
If your brain doesn't match your body then you need intensive therapy, we don't support the right of anorexic people to be abnormally thin.
Neither should we support the idea that removing healthy parts of the body is acceptable.
What no-one seems willing to acknowledge is that gender reassignment and hormones don't actually change your sex, they doom you to forever be neither sex.

www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/doctor-urges-watch-and-wait-approach-for-transgender-kids/news-story/f658b6f1aaa63ff578b2413cea4839bc

Allowing a child to transition is not helping them, it is profoundly hurting them
Studies show that most children will return to their birth gender.
I would also love to see the statistics in the M2F transgender cases in homes with no strong male role model.

May 15, 2018 0:26:23 GMT iNCY said:

Does anyone actually remember how we went from LGB to LGBTQIABCDEFG overnight?

Transgender is a mental illness.
If your brain doesn't match your body then you need intensive therapy, we don't support the right of anorexic people to be abnormally thin.
Neither should we support the idea that removing healthy parts of the body is acceptable.
What no-one seems willing to acknowledge is that gender reassignment and hormones don't actually change your sex, they doom you to forever be neither sex.

www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/doctor-urges-watch-and-wait-approach-for-transgender-kids/news-story/f658b6f1aaa63ff578b2413cea4839bc

Allowing a child to transition is not helping them, it is profoundly hurting them
Studies show that most children will return to their birth gender.
I would also love to see the statistics in the M2F transgender cases in homes with no strong male role model.

Studies have shown that the brains of transgendered people are straight-up wired differently than cisgendered brains -- that is, a male who believes he should be a woman has a brain size and patterns more like a woman's than a man, and vice versa for women who think they should be men. You're soaked in an ever-shifting bath of hormones for the first nine months of your life, in addition to the regular XX/XY chromosomes there's XXY and XYY, there's a LOT of stuff that can happen to shift genders around a bit and so their grey matter literally does not match their body it happens to be in. Does that not deserve some consideration?

May 13, 2018 19:23:51 GMT theend said:

I like claiming something is or isn't a thing but to some people it is most definitely a thing. We may call them delusional or mentally ill but it is an actual thing.

I've met transgendered people in real life. Like I mentioned above, I see actual physiological differences and (what are to me) plausible explanations for how this can come to be; how you were supposed to be one kind of human but ended up a different variation of human.

I have never met an otherkin in person. Dragons don't, y'know, actually EXIST so I can see no plausible way someone can claim to have the soul of a fictional species.

I did run across someone who identified as tree kin at a coffee shop. No joke. She was working at the coffee shop and corrected my friend and told him he was tree kin.

But hey why not a different species. Could be like a liger of people.

May 15, 2018 2:46:09 GMT Michinokudriver said:

May 15, 2018 0:26:23 GMT iNCY said:

Does anyone actually remember how we went from LGB to LGBTQIABCDEFG overnight?

Transgender is a mental illness.
If your brain doesn't match your body then you need intensive therapy, we don't support the right of anorexic people to be abnormally thin.
Neither should we support the idea that removing healthy parts of the body is acceptable.
What no-one seems willing to acknowledge is that gender reassignment and hormones don't actually change your sex, they doom you to forever be neither sex.

www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/doctor-urges-watch-and-wait-approach-for-transgender-kids/news-story/f658b6f1aaa63ff578b2413cea4839bc

Allowing a child to transition is not helping them, it is profoundly hurting them
Studies show that most children will return to their birth gender.
I would also love to see the statistics in the M2F transgender cases in homes with no strong male role model.

Studies have shown that the brains of transgendered people are straight-up wired differently than cisgendered brains -- that is, a male who believes he should be a woman has a brain size and patterns more like a woman's than a man, and vice versa for women who think they should be men. You're soaked in an ever-shifting bath of hormones for the first nine months of your life, in addition to the regular XX/XY chromosomes there's XXY and XYY, there's a LOT of stuff that can happen to shift genders around a bit and so their grey matter literally does not match their body it happens to be in. Does that not deserve some consideration?

May 13, 2018 19:23:51 GMT theend said:

Interesting to note that they only evaluated homosexual transgendered people and then compared those results to the control group, doesn't that void the finding somewhat?
A precursory search also shows that those with anorexia have different brain patterns to those without it, does this make it something we should welcome?
People with depression also have different brain imagery, does not make it any less devastating but treatable.