Pedophiles brainscans show they are wired differently as well. If we just accept them and treat them humanely it will be all good.

May 15, 2018 0:23:10 GMT theend said:

The fact a woman who wants to get a hysterectomy can't proves how little they have accomplished in my body choice is rubbish.

A 20-something man is too immature/young to decide he really doesn't want to be a father, but he isn't too immature/young to want to bring a child into this world?

Does it change the meaning when I change the gender?

Yes because vasectomies are reversible.

May 15, 2018 12:40:35 GMT mikec said:

May 15, 2018 0:23:10 GMT theend said:

The fact a woman who wants to get a hysterectomy can't proves how little they have accomplished in my body choice is rubbish.

A 20-something man is too immature/young to decide he really doesn't want to be a father, but he isn't too immature/young to want to bring a child into this world?

Does it change the meaning when I change the gender?

Yes because vasectomies are reversible.

only 95% if done in the last 3 years.  After that, it starts sliding.    

May 15, 2018 12:02:38 GMT theend said:

Pedophiles brainscans show they are wired differently as well. If we just accept them and treat them humanely it will be all good.

Do you really think that's an apt comparison? Or are you being an edgy devil's advocate?

May 15, 2018 13:21:03 GMT KJ said:

May 15, 2018 12:02:38 GMT theend said:

Pedophiles brainscans show they are wired differently as well. If we just accept them and treat them humanely it will be all good.

Do you really think that's an apt comparison? Or are you being an edgy devil's advocate?

No just shows if that if different brain scans is the only factor given in how a person is treated it is a flawed argument.

Just because a brain scan is different isn't much of a basis for anything.  Anorexics brains scan differently.  Just accepting them isn't going to help them.  It doesn't absolve them of needing help or change their suicide rate.  It's a baseline for nothing.  That's my odd point.

And in all actuality I do believe in humane treatment for pedophiles. Project Dunkelfeld in Germany should be a global effort.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_Project_Dunkelfeld

I googled that last time you mentioned it, I’m surprised the FBI didn’t raid my house 😂😐

This whole "brain scan" argument is moot. So people that are different from the norm have different brains. That's not surprising and makes total sense.

Transgender people aren't hurting anyone by changing or transitioning. In fact, they tend to do less self harm and lead happier lives if they are given the resources they need to transition.

Comparing them to people who are obviously hurting themselves or others doesn't make any sense. "ARSONISTS HAVE DIFFERENT BRAINS, MAYBE WE JUST LET THEM BURN ALL THE BUILDINGS DOWN, HUH!?" Come on. Don't be stupid. If your basis for argument is comparing transgender people to others that break the law or can slowly kill themselves, your argument is pointless and dumb.

Ok, take this in for a minute.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5757349/Scientists-say-MRIs-pick-transgender-people-gender-dysphoria.html

So say your kid identifies trans and you get a brain scan and say nope. Your kid has gender dysphoria.

What do you do?

May 22, 2018 20:21:56 GMT theend said:

Ok, take this in for a minute.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5757349/Scientists-say-MRIs-pick-transgender-people-gender-dysphoria.html

So say your kid identifies trans and you get a brain scan and say nope. Your kid has gender dysphoria.

What do you do?

I need more than one research study and an n larger than 30 to change my position.

Also the daily mail is notorious for being terrible and stirring up controversy.

And honestly, what does it matter? If they have gender dysphoria and want to change to feel better, then they should. It isn’t hurting anyone and the end result only benefits them.

Ok, let's move past attacking the news source. Here is my odd basis for the question. In the X-men movie, they proposed a cure for the mutations. I often question whether or not a cure would be embraced or if a malady would be too embraced by identity. I have questioned this with autism, down's and now with trans.

So let's stick to the hypothetical and not attack the news source. Hypothetically, if there were a sound notion to say a trans kid wasn't truly trans but had a psychological condition such as dysphoria, delusional etc and the best course of action according to science and long term mental health would be not to raise the kid trans but to give the kid psych care, would it be embraced? Or would it be embraced if there was a shot that reversed trans given at age 15 after a test that would prevent the kid from getting any harassment? Would people expect the world to change rather than change their kid?

May 23, 2018 12:54:46 GMT theend said:

Ok, let's move past attacking the news source. Here is my odd basis for the question. In the X-men movie, they proposed a cure for the mutations. I often question whether or not a cure would be embraced or if a malady would be too embraced by identity. I have questioned this with autism, down's and now with trans.

So let's stick to the hypothetical and not attack the news source. Hypothetically, if there were a sound notion to say a trans kid wasn't truly trans but had a psychological condition such as dysphoria, delusional etc and the best course of action according to science and long term mental health would be not to raise the kid trans but to give the kid psych care, would it be embraced? Or would it be embraced if there was a shot that reversed trans given at age 15 after a test that would prevent the kid from getting any harassment? Would people expect the world to change rather than change their kid?

There’s nothing wrong with being trans, so I have no motivation to change (“cure”) them.

KJ, exactly but there is something wrong with gender dysphoria, being delusional or having body dysmorphic disorder. I never stated that there was anything wrong with trans or curing them.

May 23, 2018 18:02:06 GMT theend said:

KJ, exactly but there is something wrong with gender dysphoria, being delusional or having body dysmorphic disorder. I never stated that there was anything wrong with trans or curing them.

You literally mentioned curing multiple times.

KJ, yes but not a trans kid.

Here is the refresher.

"if there were a sound notion to say a trans kid wasn't truly trans but had a psychological condition such as dysphoria, delusional etc

Read more: pwcom.proboards.com/thread/924/transgender-children?page=2&scrollTo=29780#ixzz5GMC48wyZ"

wasn't truly aka, not trans. Where did I lose you?

May 23, 2018 20:01:44 GMT theend said:

KJ , yes but not a trans kid.

Here is the refresher.

"if there were a sound notion to say a trans kid wasn't truly trans but had a psychological condition such as dysphoria, delusional etc

Read more: pwcom.proboards.com/thread/924/transgender-children?page=2&scrollTo=29780#ixzz5GMC48wyZ"

wasn't truly aka, not trans. Where did I lose you?

Again ... literally referring to trans and a cure simultaneously (and slotting trans with autism): "I often question whether or not a cure would be embraced or if a malady would be too embraced by identity. I have questioned this with autism, down's and now with trans.
"

I guess I separated where I questioned things myself and the question I made to all. Oh well, I can see where it was misunderstood.

Ok, flat question. A kid who was not trans but had another condition that confused gender (delusional, body dysmorphic, bipolar, gender dysphoria etc) is presented with a treatment, would that treatment be embraced?  

May 23, 2018 21:02:17 GMT theend said:

I guess I separated where I questioned things myself and the question I made to all. Oh well, I can see where it was misunderstood.

Ok, flat question. A kid who was not trans but had another condition that confused gender (delusional, body dysmorphic, bipolar, gender dysphoria etc) is presented with a treatment, would that treatment be embraced?  

You can’t separate gender dysphoria and trans.

I can and did just like dsm does.

May 23, 2018 23:20:31 GMT theend said:

I can and did just like dsm does.

DSM?

May 23, 2018 23:22:42 GMT KJ said:

May 23, 2018 23:20:31 GMT theend said:

I can and did just like dsm does.

DSM?

Think he means this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

May 23, 2018 23:20:31 GMT theend said:

I can and did just like dsm does.

Just read up (thanks 🤯).

So nothing in DSM suggests you should try to counteract trans behavior; rather you should treat any negative issues (such as depression). Declassifying it in of itself as an issue furthers the idea it’s not harmful.

So to answer your question: I would not treat anyone that is trans. I would address their bipolar behavior or depression, but I’d not try to condition them to associate their gender with the sex they were born with.

May 23, 2018 22:01:57 GMT KJ said:

May 23, 2018 21:02:17 GMT theend said:

I guess I separated where I questioned things myself and the question I made to all. Oh well, I can see where it was misunderstood.

Ok, flat question. A kid who was not trans but had another condition that confused gender (delusional, body dysmorphic, bipolar, gender dysphoria etc) is presented with a treatment, would that treatment be embraced?  

You can’t separate gender dysphoria and trans.

If you are transgender you have body dysmorphia and this is a serious issue.
I wouldn't want to have anyone self harm over such an issue, but shouldn't we try and address the dysmorphia before we do something as drastic as removing healthy organs?

Here is a real question for you KJ
How do you feel about someone cutting off a perfectly healthy arm or leg?

www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/health/psychology/at-war-with-their-bodies-they-seek-to-sever-limbs.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

It is EXACTLY the same thing as is Anorexia.

Living a life under a different gender than you were born is not the same as starving yourself to death.

May 25, 2018 2:35:37 GMT KJ said:

Living a life under a different gender than you were born is not the same as starving yourself to death.

So Anorexia is only harmful if you starve to the point of death?

The whole argument for gender reassignment surgery is the rates of depression and suicide amongst it's ranks.
Is this not the very evidence that it is harmful and should be treated?

You also didn't explain to me how body integrity disorder is different when it's genitals compared to an arm?

People do understand that a man getting implants, removing his penis and taking hormones does not make him actually a woman or even likely to be a good facsimile?
A man is never going to be a woman so aren't we better to try and reintegrate them with their birth gender if at all possible?

May 25, 2018 2:43:18 GMT iNCY said:

May 25, 2018 2:35:37 GMT KJ said:

Living a life under a different gender than you were born is not the same as starving yourself to death.

So Anorexia is only harmful if you starve to the point of death?

The whole argument for gender reassignment surgery is the rates of depression and suicide amongst it's ranks.
Is this not the very evidence that it is harmful and should be treated?

You also didn't explain to me how body integrity disorder is different when it's genitals compared to an arm?

People do understand that a man getting implants, removing his penis and taking hormones does not make him actually a woman or even likely to be a good facsimile?
A man is never going to be a woman so aren't we better to try and reintegrate them with their birth gender if at all possible?

There apples and oranges, and I don’t need to go any deeper on the ludicrous severing your arm comparison. Choosing to be transgendered (used loosely because it’s not a choice) because you are born that way isn’t an issue. I know you’d like to ship them all to gay conversion therapy like a fascist, but how about letting them live the life they choose.

May 25, 2018 2:47:17 GMT KJ said:

May 25, 2018 2:43:18 GMT iNCY said:

So Anorexia is only harmful if you starve to the point of death?

The whole argument for gender reassignment surgery is the rates of depression and suicide amongst it's ranks.
Is this not the very evidence that it is harmful and should be treated?

You also didn't explain to me how body integrity disorder is different when it's genitals compared to an arm?

People do understand that a man getting implants, removing his penis and taking hormones does not make him actually a woman or even likely to be a good facsimile?
A man is never going to be a woman so aren't we better to try and reintegrate them with their birth gender if at all possible?

There apples and oranges, and I don’t need to go any deeper on the ludicrous severing your arm comparison. Choosing to be transgendered (used loosely because it’s not a choice) because you are born that way isn’t an issue. I know you’d like to ship them all to gay conversion therapy like a fascist, but how about letting them live the life they choose.

How is it apples and oranges? Body Integrity Disorder is very much the same thing.
The mind is malleable and if it is in disagreement wit the reality of the body, why should the first impulse be to change the body?
You glossed over all my points about a man never actually able to be a woman.
What about the John Hopkins study that shows that MOST gender confused teens and children will revert to their birth gender? www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/number-50-fall-2016

Perhaps there is a reason for some people to "transition" in the name of mental health once other avenues have been exhausted but putting a child on hormones is abuse and deeply damaged especially if that child is likely to go back to their birth gender.
My argument is not fascist or even religious as you argue, I just believe that somehow a group of people have been swept up in political correctness gone mad when what they need is help they are given applause and surgery.

No one is arguing that an XY chromosome becomes an XX because of a gender change.

Gender =\= sex

And by the way: I said I wouldn’t let my son or daughter use hormones to transition a child. They can make the decision as an adult, and I stand by that statement.

May 25, 2018 3:15:27 GMT KJ said:

No one is arguing that an XY chromosome becomes an XX because of a gender change.

Gender =\= sex

And by the way: I said I wouldn’t let my son or daughter use hormones to transition a child. They can make the decision as an adult, and I stand by that statement.

Gender =\= sex ?
So there is no gender in animals? I mean if the Dog can't tell you it's male then I guess we are forced to disregard what stands out like "dogs balls"

The word gender has been around since the 15th century.
The idea that gender does not equal sex is as late as the 1970's

We are agreed on not letting a child transition, we should wait until someone is an adult before we allow them to do irreparable damage to themselves.