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Post by Shootist on Dec 3, 2018 5:10:43 GMT
Independence Day was my number 9. This was one of the most anticipated releases of the 90's with memorable trailers to build it up. It didn't meet those expectations but was still entertaining. Like thereallt said it was more of a disaster movie which is why it placed near the bottom of my list. Speed was number 2. Dennis Hopper was incredible as the villain and Keanu did have some great moments himself, especially on top of the subway with Hopper. This movie was unrelenting from the get go and I remember being on the edge of my seat the whole time when I saw it in the theater. Die Hard: With A Vengeance was number 3. Like Speed with the bus With A Venegeance went with a great gimmick of "Simon Says." Coming off Pulp Fiction I was really looking forward to Willis and Jackson having more interactions and they didn't disappoint. It was nice to finally see McClain operate in New York and Jeremy Irons was exceptional as Hans Gruber's vengeful brother. They did a nice job of tying it to the first movie in that way. Last but not least you got Sandy B. making her big screen splash and setting up her star for the rest of the career. Remarkable how she was able to step right in to a big production like this and go toe to toe with everyone else. It's got to be one of the biggest breakout roles of all time and the movie doesn't work without it. Bullock did have experience before rubbing elbows with the big action stars. She handled herself well with Stallone and Snipes in Demolition Man which is conspicuous by it's absence. I just read she also only had 2 days of rehearsal as she was a late replacement.
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 17:58:24 GMT
Last but not least you got Sandy B. making her big screen splash and setting up her star for the rest of the career. Remarkable how she was able to step right in to a big production like this and go toe to toe with everyone else. It's got to be one of the biggest breakout roles of all time and the movie doesn't work without it. Bullock did have experience before rubbing elbows with the big action stars. She handled herself well with Stallone and Snipes in Demolition Man which is conspicuous by it's absence. I just read she also only had 2 days of rehearsal as she was a late replacement. That's true but I don't think that if her career ended after that , anyone would remember her. Speed put her on the map , and for the foreseeable future she was going to be that lady from Speed - it made her career and allowed a world of oppurtunities going forward. The ability she showed to go in there with Keanu and Hopper spoke to her talent.
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 18:06:10 GMT
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 18:09:16 GMT
I'm not a Matrix guy , I didn't dislike it back when I seen it forever ago but it's also not the type of movie I'll ever feel the urge to go back and revisit. It didn't make my list but I'm not shocked to see it this high.
The better question is though , is Keanu the greatest action star of the 90's? He's not a name that often comes up with the greats of the genre but three movies in this countdown including two in the top five have to put him at the top of the decade. And later on when you include John Wick into the conversation he has to be one of the greatest ever. I don't feel like he always gets credit for his career , especially within the action genre.
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Post by Emperor on Dec 3, 2018 19:00:13 GMT
The Matrix was one of my earliest non-animated film experiences. An awesome blend of sci-fi an action with iconic characters and some unforgettable scenes. I also really like the second one although most people thought it took a pretty big dip in quality. I do agree with the masses that the third one is a bit rubbish.
Keanu greatest action star? Maybe. The issue I have with Keanu and Nic Cage as action stars is that they did so much more than that. Keanu famously did Bill & Ted, and I'm sure he has far more non-action roles to his name than action roles. If he didn't take on the role as John Wick, would we even be talking about him as an action star at all? Ditto with Nic Cage. Like Keanu, he had a big run of action films in the 90s/early 2000s, but it's still hard for me to put them in the same camp as a guy like Arnie who is almost pure action. But if we're sticking exclusively to the 90s, it's hard to separate Arnie, Keanu, and Nic Cage.
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Post by thereallt on Dec 3, 2018 19:16:45 GMT
The Matrix was #4 on my list. Easily Keanu's best action film of the 90's, the movie is superbly casted, superbly directed and superbly written. Laurence Fishburne puts in a fantastic performance as Morpheus, and Keanu is tailor made for the part of Neo. Hugo Weaving was a revelation as Agent Smith and this movie was a huge break for him. The actions scenes are absolutely breathtaking and the effects are first rate. I honestly don't think Keanu is that great of an "everyman" action hero (which is one of the reasons I don't regard Speed as highly) His actions roles are best when they have a little bit of an edge to them, like Johnny Utah, Neo, or John Wick.
The sequel wasn't as good but was still quality, but the 3rd one takes a nose dive. The only parts I really liked were the scenes in Zion.
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 19:31:33 GMT
The Matrix was one of my earliest non-animated film experiences. An awesome blend of sci-fi an action with iconic characters and some unforgettable scenes. I also really like the second one although most people thought it took a pretty big dip in quality. I do agree with the masses that the third one is a bit rubbish. Keanu greatest action star? Maybe. The issue I have with Keanu and Nic Cage as action stars is that they did so much more than that. Keanu famously did Bill & Ted, and I'm sure he has far more non-action roles to his name than action roles. If he didn't take on the role as John Wick, would we even be talking about him as an action star at all? Ditto with Nic Cage. Like Keanu, he had a big run of action films in the 90s/early 2000s, but it's still hard for me to put them in the same camp as a guy like Arnie who is almost pure action. But if we're sticking exclusively to the 90s, it's hard to separate Arnie, Keanu, and Nic Cage. I would say he was in the conversation before John Wick and the movie catapulted him into discussion amongst the tops. You ask if not for Wick if people would even be talking about him as an action star at all? Absolutely - this list and the general consensus points to the fact that he was one of , if not the greatest action stars of the nineties. He didn't need John Wick to be that. As for his other movies , there was Bill and Ted , a movie I find doesn't hold up at all but even if we say it does - then what else is there really? You or I would probably struggle to name a couple that were truly standouts. Unlike Cage with movies like Leaving Las Vegas , The Weatherman , Raising Arizona and such - Keanu really doesn't have much to point at. I mean I love movies like The Replacements and Hardball but they were hardly breaking the bank and pushing his career forward. Keanu is a weird fellow though from everything I've read and very set in his ways - I still think it would have been incredible to see him comeback and do a movie in the vein of a Matchstick Men. As for the nineties argument , the more I think about it - I'd go: Keanu Cage Arnie Keanu had three landmark movies , Cage had a trifecta like no other and Arnie had a pair of incredibly successful movies ... then again I'm not an Arnie fan and something like Total Recall doesn't even register for me.
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Post by thereallt on Dec 3, 2018 19:39:06 GMT
The Matrix was one of my earliest non-animated film experiences. An awesome blend of sci-fi an action with iconic characters and some unforgettable scenes. I also really like the second one although most people thought it took a pretty big dip in quality. I do agree with the masses that the third one is a bit rubbish. Keanu greatest action star? Maybe. The issue I have with Keanu and Nic Cage as action stars is that they did so much more than that. Keanu famously did Bill & Ted, and I'm sure he has far more non-action roles to his name than action roles. If he didn't take on the role as John Wick, would we even be talking about him as an action star at all? Ditto with Nic Cage. Like Keanu, he had a big run of action films in the 90s/early 2000s, but it's still hard for me to put them in the same camp as a guy like Arnie who is almost pure action. But if we're sticking exclusively to the 90s, it's hard to separate Arnie, Keanu, and Nic Cage. I would say he was in the conversation before John Wick and the movie catapulted him into discussion amongst the tops. You ask if not for Wick if people would even be talking about him as an action star at all? Absolutely - this list and the general consensus points to the fact that he was one of , if not the greatest action stars of the nineties. He didn't need John Wick to be that. As for his other movies , there was Bill and Ted , a movie I find doesn't hold up at all but even if we say it does - then what else is there really? You or I would probably struggle to name a couple that were truly standouts. Unlike Cage with movies like Leaving Las Vegas , The Weatherman , Raising Arizona and such - Keanu really doesn't have much to point at. I mean I love movies like The Replacements and Hardball but they were hardly breaking the bank and pushing his career forward. Keanu is a weird fellow though from everything I've read and very set in his ways - I still think it would have been incredible to see him comeback and do a movie in the vein of a Matchstick Men. As for the nineties argument , the more I think about it - I'd go: Keanu Cage Arnie Keanu had three landmark movies , Cage had a trifecta like no other and Arnie had a pair of incredibly successful movies ... then again I'm not an Arnie fan and something like Total Recall doesn't even register for me. Arnie had more than just 2 successful movies....He had Total Recall as well, and Eraser in 96 was still a very successful movie even though it was Arnold's last gasp as a bankable action star. But from 90-95 Arnold was easily just as big as he had been in the 80's Also Keanu's non-action resume is more solid than you would think, especially as a supporting actor. Dangerous Liasons, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Much Ado About Nothing, The Devil's Advocate, The Replacements, and A Scanner Darkly are all films on his resume that were non-action.
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Post by Shootist on Dec 3, 2018 20:15:05 GMT
Keanu was horrible in Bram Stoker's Dracula, too stiff and lifeless for my liking as Harker. The Devil's Advocate was top notch though.
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 20:47:43 GMT
Yeah Keanu is fucking terrible in Bram Stokers Dracula and the movie as a whole is a pile of shit. I've never seen Dangerous Liasons and he could be good in it , but he's still like fifth billed at that point in his career. I love The Replacements but it's hardly winning any awards or noted for great performances. Devil's Advocate I will give you and A Scanner Darkly I've never even heard of an was a straight indie release... again not exactly bringing people to the box office. Also not going to win many awards.
The point being is that people proved they love and will watch Cage in other things aside from action , he has the far better resume` to prove it. Keanu has proven time and time again that people prefer him as an action star. He's at his best as an action star. People actually pay money to see Keanu the action star.
Taking all those indie roles , and making so many fucked up choices almost ruined his career ... people just weren't buying it. It took an action movie to bring him back.
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Post by 🤯 on Dec 3, 2018 20:56:51 GMT
Whoa...
Keanu is not THE action star of the 90s.
Definitely in the Top 10, but at the bottom.
Arnold probably has a good argument for #1.
I bet Bruce follows, then Cage and Gibson (or Gibson and Cage).
I think Sylvester Stallone is slipping the most coming out of the 80s, but he probably has enough going on to hold onto #5.
Then maybe Keanu at #6.
Then it turns into more of a free for all IMO between Snipes, Harrison, Van Damme, Segal, maybe Kurt Russell? But Keanu is definitely NOT #1.
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 21:49:47 GMT
Pass the bong 🤯. Keanu is definitely amongst the tops , I don't know if it's just your personal preference or what but the guy has three of the best and most recognizable movies of the decade. All action. Bruce Willis does not belong above him at all. Two Die Hard sequels (one meh , one great) and The Last Boy Scout? That doesn't come close to sniffing Keanu's trifecta. Unless you want to shoehorn a clear disaster movie in Armageddon in there. Sylvester Stallone? You can't be serious ... you know we're talking about the 1990's right? Demolition Man? Cliffhanger? That's not even a close contest. Stallone... really? And again with Gibson I swear you are confusing the 90's for the 80's. Only one of the Lethal Weapons take place in the 90s. Ransom? What else?
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Post by thereallt on Dec 3, 2018 22:06:58 GMT
Seagal has a pretty good claim with Hard to Kill, Marked for Death, Out for Justice and Under Siege.
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Post by 🤯 on Dec 3, 2018 22:57:27 GMT
Pass the bong 🤯. Keanu is definitely amongst the tops , I don't know if it's just your personal preference or what but the guy has three of the best and most recognizable movies of the decade. All action. Bruce Willis does not belong above him at all. Two Die Hard sequels (one meh , one great) and The Last Boy Scout? That doesn't come close to sniffing Keanu's trifecta. Unless you want to shoehorn a clear disaster movie in Armageddon in there. Sylvester Stallone? You can't be serious ... you know we're talking about the 1990's right? Demolition Man? Cliffhanger? That's not even a close contest. Stallone... really? And again with Gibson I swear you are confusing the 90's for the 80's. Only one of the Lethal Weapons take place in the 90s. Ransom? What else? I'll fight you. What's Keanu's third iconic action movie outside Speed and Matrix? Lethal Weapon 3 and 4 were both 90s. I think the last Mad Max might've been too. Then there's Payback and Conspiracy Theory, and possibly Braveheart depending on how you qualify action. Mel's a beast. Last Boy Scout, Striking Distance, and especially Last Man Standing for sleeper Bruce action masterpieces. But then there's no way you're discounting Fifth Element. And Pulp Fiction, Armageddon, and The Siege count too depending on how you're qualifying action. And absolutely on Sly for Demolition Man and Cliffhanger. Daylight was great too. And Judge Dredd was so totally 90s. And weren't there a final Rocky and Rambo in the 90s too? I'll admit that Sly might be the closest it comes to yielding a spot to Keanu. And you don't like Arnold, which I can't even comprehend. So no point in even discussing the (Last) True (Lies) King of Action (Heroes).
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 23:00:20 GMT
I'd put Seagal up there ahead of Stallone and Gibson for sure. Possibly Willis. His star faded faster whereas Keanu literally made his impact on every part of the decade. Though Point Break didn't draw as much as some of Seagals other movies , Speed and Matrix absolutely dwarf them. I would say Arnie is the only one who flatout beats Keanu as far as numbers go - at least per movie.
When you consider that like I said though , Keanu did it front to back , from 91-99 he made three undeniable marks on the genre - he definitely has longevity in the decade. Even Arnold eventually faded out.
However you want to order it , and whatever you want to base it on I'd say the top three is not really arguable.
- Keanu - Cage - Arnold
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Post by UT on Dec 3, 2018 23:16:49 GMT
Pass the bong 🤯 . Keanu is definitely amongst the tops , I don't know if it's just your personal preference or what but the guy has three of the best and most recognizable movies of the decade. All action. Bruce Willis does not belong above him at all. Two Die Hard sequels (one meh , one great) and The Last Boy Scout? That doesn't come close to sniffing Keanu's trifecta. Unless you want to shoehorn a clear disaster movie in Armageddon in there. Sylvester Stallone? You can't be serious ... you know we're talking about the 1990's right? Demolition Man? Cliffhanger? That's not even a close contest. Stallone... really? And again with Gibson I swear you are confusing the 90's for the 80's. Only one of the Lethal Weapons take place in the 90s. Ransom? What else? I'll fight you. What's Keanu's third iconic action movie outside Speed and Matrix? Lethal Weapon 3 and 4 were both 90s. I think the last Mad Max might've been too. Then there's Payback and Conspiracy Theory, and possibly Braveheart depending on how you qualify action. Mel's a beast. Last Boy Scout, Striking Distance, and especially Last Man Standing for sleeper Bruce action masterpieces. But then there's no way you're discounting Fifth Element. And Pulp Fiction, Armageddon, and The Siege count too depending on how you're qualifying action. And absolutely on Sly for Demolition Man and Cliffhanger. Daylight was great too. And Judge Dredd was so totally 90s. And weren't there a final Rocky and Rambo in the 90s too? I'll admit that Sly might be the closest it comes to yielding a spot to Keanu. And you don't like Arnold, which I can't even comprehend. So no point in even discussing the (Last) True (Lies) King of Action (Heroes). You'll love me and you'll like it. Point Break is certainly an iconic movie , it didn't do huge numbers at the time but has certainly reached cult status. If you want to expand the parameters of the genre than sure , but we aren't talking about biographical epics (Braveheart) or any other genres. Mels a beast and a great actor but he was in the process of removing himself as an action star during the 90's. Last Boy Scout is the only one I really consider holding up , Striking Distance and Last Man Standing both did shit at the box office and both didn't even receive wide releases. Bruce was on that straight to DVD game before DVD's. You aren't counting the last Rocky , people barely recognize it as canon it was so bad. I don't see a Rambo in the 90's. Cliffhanger and Demolition Man are his saving grace to even being in the discussion. Judge Dredd was pretty much a flop and the beginning of the end for Stallone in the 90's.
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Post by Baker on Dec 4, 2018 2:14:46 GMT
I'm digging this 🤯 vs. UT argument over Keanu. The Matrix missed my list. I thought it was mind blowing the first time I saw it, but I liked it less in subsequent re-watches. Still probably would have cracked my Top 20 though. Since it's been brought up a few times, I love Demolition Man. Think I had it at #4 or #5 on my list.
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Post by RagnarokMike on Dec 4, 2018 5:54:54 GMT
I'm still baffled Keanu made it past casting and the start of filming in Bram Stoker's Dracula, Sofia Coppala in Godfather III you could write off as nepotism, Keanu in Dracula, just, how the hell?
The first Matrix is really something special, great action, fun characters, solid story, fantastic climax, interesting world building. It was all downhill from there, but that first movie, what a film.
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Post by RagnarokMike on Dec 4, 2018 6:06:30 GMT
Also not sure Keanu was considered the greatest action star of the 90's, while he had a solid line-up of movies, his performances were never really the reason (not saying Arnie and Sly were better at acting, maybe Sly, it was their machismo that sold), except Neo being the perfect storm of awkward and awesome. You watched Arnie movies for Arnie, you watched Stallone movies for Stallone, you watched Keanu movies because they were entertaining. I honestly don't think he came into his own as an actor until much later in his career, he was kind of always shades of Theodore Logan throughout the 90's. I think he could pull off Harker today.
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Post by UT on Dec 4, 2018 14:34:03 GMT
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Post by 🤯 on Dec 4, 2018 14:36:20 GMT
Nic Cage ranking high in a non-Cage countdown will always please me.
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Post by UT on Dec 4, 2018 14:40:11 GMT
I've talked about the virtues and amazingness of The Rock before , in the Cage countdown so I won't totally repeat myself. I had it #3 only because I probably go back and watch my first two a ton more but that doesn't mean The Rock is any lesser of a movie. It's an incredible pure action flick with an amazing on screen duo and perfect villain. There is certainly an argument for it being the best of the 90's IMO.
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Post by 🤯 on Dec 4, 2018 14:42:33 GMT
I've talked about the virtues and amazingness of The Rock before , in the Cage countdown so I won't totally repeat myself. I had it #3 only because I probably go back and watch my first two a ton more but that doesn't mean The Rock is any lesser of a movie. It's an incredible pure action flick with an amazing on screen duo and perfect villain. There is certainly an argument for it being the best of the 90's IMO. It was so perfectly Michael Bay, which feels so perfectly 90s in a lot of ways. Which also gets me thinking: who were the best action directors of the 90s? I assume Cameron and Bay are #1 and #2 respectively, but then who?
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Post by thereallt on Dec 4, 2018 14:51:57 GMT
The Rock was #8 on my list. I like it very much but I don't love it as much as others on PW. Sean Connery is fabulous as John Mason and Ed Harris makes for a spectacular Magneto style villain with a cause. It has great action pieces and great dialog. It has great supporting actors in David Morse, Michael Biehn, Tony Todd and others.
What brings the movie down for me a bit is I really didn't care much for the character of Stanley Goodspeed, even though Nic Cage gives it all he's got. The character itself though just wasn't terribly interesting to me.
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Post by UT on Dec 4, 2018 14:53:17 GMT
I've talked about the virtues and amazingness of The Rock before , in the Cage countdown so I won't totally repeat myself. I had it #3 only because I probably go back and watch my first two a ton more but that doesn't mean The Rock is any lesser of a movie. It's an incredible pure action flick with an amazing on screen duo and perfect villain. There is certainly an argument for it being the best of the 90's IMO. It was so perfectly Michael Bay, which feels so perfectly 90s in a lot of ways. Which also gets me thinking: who were the best action directors of the 90s? I assume Cameron and Bay are #1 and #2 respectively, but then who? Tony motherfucking Scott! Love that guy.
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Post by UT on Dec 4, 2018 14:54:33 GMT
The Rock was #8 on my list. I like it very much but I don't love it as much as others on PW. Sean Connery is fabulous as John Mason and Ed Harris makes for a spectacular Magneto style villain with a cause. It has great action pieces and great dialog. It has great supporting actors in David Morse, Michael Biehn, Tony Todd and others. What brings the movie down for me a bit is I really didn't care much for the character of Stanley Goodspeed, even though Nic Cage gives it all he's got. The character itself though just wasn't terribly interesting to me. I think Goodspeed needed to be that character to let Connery/Mason shine. You tweak that character , you fuck with one of the greatest things about the movie in Cages and Connery's chemistry together. Hell that might be the best part of the entire movie.
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Post by thereallt on Dec 4, 2018 14:57:47 GMT
It was so perfectly Michael Bay, which feels so perfectly 90s in a lot of ways. Which also gets me thinking: who were the best action directors of the 90s? I assume Cameron and Bay are #1 and #2 respectively, but then who? Tony motherfucking Scott! Love that guy. Yeah but he only had one action film the whole decade, The Last Boy Scout. He was really trying to diversify his resume in the 90's
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Post by Emperor on Dec 4, 2018 15:04:49 GMT
The Rock is amazing and an easy #1 for me. But I have no problems with Terminator 2 taking PW's top spot. Think it was my #2.
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Post by thereallt on Dec 4, 2018 15:05:53 GMT
I've talked about the virtues and amazingness of The Rock before , in the Cage countdown so I won't totally repeat myself. I had it #3 only because I probably go back and watch my first two a ton more but that doesn't mean The Rock is any lesser of a movie. It's an incredible pure action flick with an amazing on screen duo and perfect villain. There is certainly an argument for it being the best of the 90's IMO. It was so perfectly Michael Bay, which feels so perfectly 90s in a lot of ways. Which also gets me thinking: who were the best action directors of the 90s? I assume Cameron and Bay are #1 and #2 respectively, but then who? John Woo has to be up there. He's got Hard Boiled, Hard Target, Broken Arrow, and Face Off on his resume for the 90's. He was also a HUGE influence on 90's action films.
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Post by UT on Dec 4, 2018 15:06:45 GMT
Tony motherfucking Scott! Love that guy. Yeah but he only had one action film the whole decade, The Last Boy Scout. He was really trying to diversify his resume in the 90's Crimson Tide is an action thriller. Enemy of the State got vote in this countdown as did True Romance. I don't know about the last one though.
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