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Post by RT on Aug 9, 2021 5:25:02 GMT
Well over here public schools starts tomorrow(the 9th of this month.) and kindergarten starts this Thursday kinda nervous because my nephew starts this Thursday but the office of p\ublic schools did stated that all students, teachers and staffs have to wear a mask so there is that Totally off topic but I've always wondered, why does the US start school in early August? We get all of July and August off up here.
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Post by pduh on Aug 9, 2021 5:28:26 GMT
Well over here public schools starts tomorrow(the 9th of this month.) and kindergarten starts this Thursday kinda nervous because my nephew starts this Thursday but the office of p\ublic schools did stated that all students, teachers and staffs have to wear a mask so there is that Totally off topic but I've always wondered, why does the US start school in early August? We get all of July and August off up here. Some states maybe most states starts school in September and ends in June the state I live in starts August and usually ends in May I have no clue why is that though
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Post by c on Aug 9, 2021 5:53:02 GMT
Future Farmers of America pushed most of the South to end schools in June then May so kids can help on the farms as early as possible in spring harvest season. Since no one else seems to care eitherway, it is not that big of a deal to get kids out of school earlier and promote letting them make the most of the summer. Since the school year always was based around the growing season, it makes sense to align it this way.
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Post by iNCY on Aug 10, 2021 9:56:05 GMT
This is a somewhat serious and intelligent article on break through infections: www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/breakthrough-covid-cases-why-fully-vaccinated-people-can-get-covid.htmlThey do however do a lousy job of breaking down the data. I thought I would have a crack and the article rightly says: While that information is useful, it doesn't really help unless compared against broader numbers: There looks to have been about 16,000,000 confirmed cases of Covid in the USA this year. And deaths for 2021 are totaling: 262,602 64.2 million-plus people have been fully vaccinated for a positive rate of 0.19% infected. versus unvaccinated: If you say everyone else is unvaccinated then the positive rate for the broader community is 6% This is an argument in support of vaccines I think, which also shows Faucci and the CDC's comments to be wildly out of order.
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 10:22:26 GMT
About 100k children infections last week and most southern pediatric ICU wards are full already with talk of field hospitals being needed. Delta is ripping through schools as they reopen. As of now plan is to let them get infected.
The vaccine argument that it prevents reinfection is weird, since the antibody vaccine was never designed to prevent infect. It was to damper the effects of infection. The Pfizer vaccine is only 16% effective in preventing infection after 9 months. Infection was the number they sought to minimize though, but severe symptomatic disease. Basically the goal was to prevent the pneumonia side. Everything else was just a bonus. Breakthroughs were expect, and are expected at increasingly higher rates. What we are not seeing is breakthrough infections that leave people on ventilators.
A lot of this talk is focused on the word vaccine but really the COVID vaccine is not a vaccine, it is an antibody treatment. A vaccine will come sooner or later, but right now we do not have one, so we use antibodies to just block the virus from being effective.
And yeah, I really want the RAW numbers. Too many variables can be defined with some level of researcher degrees of freedom. Can really sway the results towards any direction you want by defining some of the variables that do not have discrete definitions, like symptomatic infection. Add sneezing to this and it looks awful. Limit to pneumonia, and they looks great. Generally definitions of variables do not make news reports. Fuck they rarely make research papers or even data share requests. I know before I joined labs no labs I worked with even had a sheet objectively defining what every variable in a study meant, and how to calculate it. Most researchers in COVID have no reason to really fuck with the data though if they plan on scholarly publication though since they are obligated to share the data these days and if they mess with the definitions too much the journals will retract the article which is the worst thing that can happen to an author. And everyone in the bio area is on COVID as money is raining and journals cannot get enough COVID articles so funky shit will not sneak by unnoticed often, as proven an article wrong is the easiest way to get a publication that people read.
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Post by iNCY on Aug 10, 2021 10:56:38 GMT
About 100k children infections last week and most southern pediatric ICU wards are full already with talk of field hospitals being needed. Delta is ripping through schools as they reopen. As of now plan is to let them get infected. The vaccine argument that it prevents reinfection is weird, since the antibody vaccine was never designed to prevent infect. It was to damper the effects of infection. The Pfizer vaccine is only 16% effective in preventing infection after 9 months. Infection was the number they sought to minimize though, but severe symptomatic disease. Basically the goal was to prevent the pneumonia side. Everything else was just a bonus. Breakthroughs were expect, and are expected at increasingly higher rates. What we are not seeing is breakthrough infections that leave people on ventilators. A lot of this talk is focused on the word vaccine but really the COVID vaccine is not a vaccine, it is an antibody treatment. A vaccine will come sooner or later, but right now we do not have one, so we use antibodies to just block the virus from being effective. And yeah, I really want the RAW numbers. Too many variables can be defined with some level of researcher degrees of freedom. Can really sway the results towards any direction you want by defining some of the variables that do not have discrete definitions, like symptomatic infection. Add sneezing to this and it looks awful. Limit to pneumonia, and they looks great. Generally definitions of variables do not make news reports. Fuck they rarely make research papers or even data share requests. I know before I joined labs no labs I worked with even had a sheet objectively defining what every variable in a study meant, and how to calculate it. Most researchers in COVID have no reason to really fuck with the data though if they plan on scholarly publication though since they are obligated to share the data these days and if they mess with the definitions too much the journals will retract the article which is the worst thing that can happen to an author. And everyone in the bio area is on COVID as money is raining and journals cannot get enough COVID articles so funky shit will not sneak by unnoticed often, as proven an article wrong is the easiest way to get a publication that people read. That 19% number comes out of the Israel study which is a pretty hotly contested study. The UK study suggests a much higher degree of protection, as do the Raw USA numbers. It's also a bit of a nonsense counting asymptomatic cases.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 11:39:14 GMT
c, where do you got your information from? WIth regards to full wards and numbers of children infected. Not meaning to be inflammatory, just curious.
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 11:59:06 GMT
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 12:26:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 12:43:49 GMT
It's interesting the differences between children's cases in the US and the UK. Our kids have been on summer break for a few weeks now, but even before that, there was nothing like the effect on hospitalisation as those American news articles suggest. Maybe child obesity rates have something to do with it.
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 13:02:38 GMT
More likely a simple matter of numbers. US South does not contact trace, self-isolate if infected, wear masks or social distance. Less kids gets sick, less kids get seriously sick. Likely getting whatever was in Brazil in the South now as well, as the the fastest rising group getting sick are under 2.
As for the bed shortage, hospitals in South have been cutting beds for decades and in the last 6 months been facing staff walkouts in record numbers so they are incredibly understaffed as well. But no beds is associated with a rapid upspike in death. Also many in these areas are opposed to modern medicine entirely and will turn to faith healing cures. Drinking bleach was common here during the last outbreak after faith healers jumped on Trump saying it knocks the virus out. Then there was the Miracle Mineral Solution craze, which was sodium chlorite and water.
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 14:25:19 GMT
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Post by c on Aug 10, 2021 22:49:41 GMT
I dont know whether or laugh or cry, but people are claiming the vampires in I Am Legend, a film based on a book from the 1950's were created with the COVID vaccine. I seen this on and off for months but thought people could not be this stupid, but here we are with the screenwriter of the film issuing a statement that it is a work of fiction.
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Post by iNCY on Aug 11, 2021 0:09:39 GMT
It's interesting the differences between children's cases in the US and the UK. Our kids have been on summer break for a few weeks now, but even before that, there was nothing like the effect on hospitalisation as those American news articles suggest. Maybe child obesity rates have something to do with it. They had an article on the BBC this morning about Covid in children. There are more children in hospital with Covid in Japan at the moment. They are nearly all very mild cases. The issue is that normally they are admitted because the parents are admitted unwell and there is nobody to care for the children, you can't send a covid positive child to live with the grand parents. Wouldn't surprise me that the US cases are following a similar pattern. Let's not forget that the survivability of Covid-19 is over 99.97% for people under 60
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Post by c on Aug 11, 2021 3:10:53 GMT
That is not US policy. Only kids in hospitals are those who are too sick for outpatient care, which means ventilator or monitored IV treatment. Everything else can be handled at home. Insurance companies are not going to pay 10k a day for hospitals to provide daycare. Also the hospitals need the beds, and more importantly, they need the staff hours elsewhere.
Still remember when my brother broke his back, he was not able to walk when the hospital released him, claiming that they did not keep people who were able to be cared for at home. Meanwhile at home we had to carry him up the stairs to get into the apartment while he was major pain from me basically dragging him up the stairs. Hospital gave no fucks though, they wanted the bed freed. Ended up being a month after he was released he was strong enough to get up and down the stairs to start physical therapy. So yeah, hospitals here are not keeping kids just because their parents are sick. Businesses do not run like that here.
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Post by System on Aug 11, 2021 3:20:48 GMT
Got my first AZ dose yesterday had chest tightening/jaw tightening and had to keep taking deep breaths so went to hospital to be safe. Thought I was going to faint at one point but probably just having a panic attack as I thought the System had failed. Got checked out and heart is fine as is blood, can’t complain that they found no issues. Still having same symptoms today but not as severe, called Telehealth and they just told me to take some Panadol, lay down and see a doctor soon. Hoping it’s nothing as I can’t see my GP at the moment.
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Post by 🤯 on Aug 11, 2021 12:24:31 GMT
Got my first AZ dose yesterday had chest tightening/jaw tightening and had to keep taking deep breaths so went to hospital to be safe. Thought I was going to faint at one point but probably just having a panic attack as I thought the System had failed. Got checked out and heart is fine as is blood, can’t complain that they found no issues. Still having same symptoms today but not as severe, called Telehealth and they just told me to take some Panadol, lay down and see a doctor soon. Hoping it’s nothing as I can’t see my GP at the moment. I expect to see Ian Hollow write a journal entry on a similar experience!
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Post by nath45 on Aug 12, 2021 4:55:29 GMT
A quote I read today, while I don't necessarily agree :
" imagine a vaccine so safe, you have to be threatened to take it,
for a disease so deadly you have to be tested to know you have it. "
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Post by iNCY on Aug 12, 2021 5:47:59 GMT
Got my first AZ dose yesterday had chest tightening/jaw tightening and had to keep taking deep breaths so went to hospital to be safe. Thought I was going to faint at one point but probably just having a panic attack as I thought the System had failed. Got checked out and heart is fine as is blood, can’t complain that they found no issues. Still having same symptoms today but not as severe, called Telehealth and they just told me to take some Panadol, lay down and see a doctor soon. Hoping it’s nothing as I can’t see my GP at the moment. You still with us captian?
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Post by System on Aug 12, 2021 7:22:05 GMT
Got my first AZ dose yesterday had chest tightening/jaw tightening and had to keep taking deep breaths so went to hospital to be safe. Thought I was going to faint at one point but probably just having a panic attack as I thought the System had failed. Got checked out and heart is fine as is blood, can’t complain that they found no issues. Still having same symptoms today but not as severe, called Telehealth and they just told me to take some Panadol, lay down and see a doctor soon. Hoping it’s nothing as I can’t see my GP at the moment. You still with us captian? Indeed, ready to serve the highest at risk the second my work re opens again 😒
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Post by iNCY on Aug 12, 2021 8:56:00 GMT
You still with us captian? Indeed, ready to serve the highest at risk the second my work re opens again 😒 So, 2030? Do you System, @admin and nath45 get the vibe that this pandemic is polarising people? It seems to me that there aren't many centrist left everyone is either let's open up or I've been a bad boy punish me unelected health official. Seems that there is a lot less middle ground, I'm seriously considering shifting my vote from the coalition to the Liberal Democrats.
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Legend
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Post by nath45 on Aug 12, 2021 10:31:10 GMT
Indeed, ready to serve the highest at risk the second my work re opens again 😒 So, 2030? Do you System , @admin and nath45 get the vibe that this pandemic is polarising people? It seems to me that there aren't many centrist left everyone is either let's open up or I've been a bad boy punish me unelected health official. Seems that there is a lot less middle ground, I'm seriously considering shifting my vote from the coalition to the Liberal Democrats. It is polarising. I've talked about it on here. Two camps have emerged - and obviously they have very distinct opinions on the pandemic. Maybe, not some much the pandemic, but the lockdown measures. a) these people are usually sharing memes about how grateful they are that their government cares so much about them to lockdown the state and all the cautionary measures they've taken. And how #blessed they feel. And when you see these people wearing a mask - it's awkward, and it's a bit of novelty and a bit of a laugh for them, because they never really have to do it.. because the common theme among these people usually is, they can work from home. They are 'professional talkers' - HR professionals, lawyers, accountants, journalists, managers, local government councillors, etc. They can do their entire job from a laptop in their spare room. Lockdown is great for these guys. Working from home in their pyjamas, getting paid to stay home - the TV is on in the background. Maybe it's not great, but it's a totally different experience to those in the other camp. b) these people are business owners, hospitality workers, retail workers, builders, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers, mechanics, factory-workers, etc. People who physically have to go to a building, and perform a task to receive a pay check. And naturally, they have some pretty strong opinions about lockdowns continually stopping them from working and providing for their families. These people have to wear masks every minute of every day while they are working, apart from eating or drinking - including in the extreme heat of an Australian Summer. These people are the 'doers' because they actually do things. This group includes those in FMCG/Retail who have to battle through panic buying and chaos and constantly having to adapt at a moment's notice. You can understand why Camp B grows frustrated with Camp A. It's not a class thing - because there's a lot of people in Camp B that out earn and out perform those in Camp A, but maybe more so the perception that those in Camp A are more intelligent, or more cultured or enlightened because they have 'professional' careers. Regardless of political ideologies. Paul Murray on PML routinely has business owners on his shows to speak through what's happening at ground level. He is urging politicians to get out of their offices and speak to the people on the street - to spend time with 'doers' and to understand the impact this has on people. Because politicians are likely speaking with people in Camp A, the sort of people they know, the sort of people they probably enjoy speaking with - professionals. Because they speak the same language. ( and you see other examples all the time when politicians or even when professionals find themselves consorting with factory workers.. it's like they've landed in the New World and.. have.. to.. speak.. slower.. to.. make.. sure.. the..... you get the picture. ) so anyway, the feedback about "lockdowns" probably isn't too concerning when speaking with an accountant as compared to say, a small business owner that can't open their doors today. But no-one is listening to Camp B. Or wanting to listen. Or they're listening to Camp A, because the response is warmer. And then when you start talking about protesting lockdowns as an example. These people protesting, or venting their frustrations are routinely called selfish, or idiots, or morons, etc. with Politicians and the media even painting them as crackpots or conspiracy theorist or right-wing hijackers. And these are the Camp B people who have been hurting the most. And now they're being insulted by the people they should trust the most. And the frustration builds. I could go on.
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Post by System on Aug 12, 2021 10:32:40 GMT
Indeed, ready to serve the highest at risk the second my work re opens again 😒 So, 2030? Do you System, @admin and nath45 get the vibe that this pandemic is polarising people? It seems to me that there aren't many centrist left everyone is either let's open up or I've been a bad boy punish me unelected health official. Seems that there is a lot less middle ground, I'm seriously considering shifting my vote from the coalition to the Liberal Democrats. :lol: accurate, my work seems to think we will be open next Friday. If we are, I’m buying a lottery ticket. absolutely, I know people who are 100% on the hoax train and share nonsense all day, then other people who are for forced vaccinations and think anyone not wearing a mask indoors has committed an unforgivable sin. The irony of patrons at my work (mostly retirees) who were screaming that Gladys wouldn’t lock us down in the Hunter but were out socially every night was astounding.
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Post by System on Aug 12, 2021 10:48:43 GMT
Also the amount of young people that only want Pfizer because it’s rare, not because of health concerns is astounding, it’s a vaccine not a shiny charizard.
Saw a comment of someone telling a girl to get AstraZeneca and she said “I want pfizer tho because it’s boujee” 🥴😂
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Post by c on Aug 12, 2021 11:21:12 GMT
We are in a much better place in the US. Half of the people are holed up pissed off COVID will not end because people cannot follow simple health mandates, and the other half believe COVID is liberal conspiracy and that death camps are coming for those who refuse tracking implants delivered in the vaccines.
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Post by c on Aug 12, 2021 11:37:31 GMT
Schools finally smartening up and shifting to remote again the US after seeing hundreds of cases appear in schools. Most schools finding out real fast that not having student wear masks is a recipe for disaster.
Schools are also running low on COVID tests already as the policy in many schools is to mass test and quarantine students who are positive. This is leading to thousands of students in the first few weeks of schools being sent home.
While there is no shortage nationally of COVID tests, there are local shortages as they burn through tests at a rapid pace.
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Post by iNCY on Aug 12, 2021 12:12:51 GMT
So, 2030? Do you System , @admin and nath45 get the vibe that this pandemic is polarising people? It seems to me that there aren't many centrist left everyone is either let's open up or I've been a bad boy punish me unelected health official. Seems that there is a lot less middle ground, I'm seriously considering shifting my vote from the coalition to the Liberal Democrats. It is polarising. I've talked about it on here. Two camps have emerged - and obviously they have very distinct opinions on the pandemic. Maybe, not some much the pandemic, but the lockdown measures. a) these people are usually sharing memes about how grateful they are that their government cares so much about them to lockdown the state and all the cautionary measures they've taken. And how #blessed they feel. And when you see these people wearing a mask - it's awkward, and it's a bit of novelty and a bit of a laugh for them, because they never really have to do it.. because the common theme among these people usually is, they can work from home. They are 'professional talkers' - HR professionals, lawyers, accountants, journalists, managers, local government councillors, etc. They can do their entire job from a laptop in their spare room. Lockdown is great for these guys. Working from home in their pyjamas, getting paid to stay home - the TV is on in the background. Maybe it's not great, but it's a totally different experience to those in the other camp. b) these people are business owners, hospitality workers, retail workers, builders, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers, mechanics, factory-workers, etc. People who physically have to go to a building, and perform a task to receive a pay check. And naturally, they have some pretty strong opinions about lockdowns continually stopping them from working and providing for their families. These people have to wear masks every minute of every day while they are working, apart from eating or drinking - including in the extreme heat of an Australian Summer. These people are the 'doers' because they actually do things. This group includes those in FMCG/Retail who have to battle through panic buying and chaos and constantly having to adapt at a moment's notice. You can understand why Camp B grows frustrated with Camp A. It's not a class thing - because there's a lot of people in Camp B that out earn and out perform those in Camp A, but maybe more so the perception that those in Camp A are more intelligent, or more cultured or enlightened because they have 'professional' careers. Regardless of political ideologies. Paul Murray on PML routinely has business owners on his shows to speak through what's happening at ground level. He is urging politicians to get out of their offices and speak to the people on the street - to spend time with 'doers' and to understand the impact this has on people. Because politicians are likely speaking with people in Camp A, the sort of people they know, the sort of people they probably enjoy speaking with - professionals. Because they speak the same language. ( and you see other examples all the time when politicians or even when professionals find themselves consorting with factory workers.. it's like they've landed in the New World and.. have.. to.. speak.. slower.. to.. make.. sure.. the..... you get the picture. ) so anyway, the feedback about "lockdowns" probably isn't too concerning when speaking with an accountant as compared to say, a small business owner that can't open their doors today. But no-one is listening to Camp B. Or wanting to listen. Or they're listening to Camp A, because the response is warmer. And then when you start talking about protesting lockdowns as an example. These people protesting, or venting their frustrations are routinely called selfish, or idiots, or morons, etc. with Politicians and the media even painting them as crackpots or conspiracy theorist or right-wing hijackers. And these are the Camp B people who have been hurting the most. And now they're being insulted by the people they should trust the most. And the frustration builds. I could go on. I fall between the two camps, this is the most successful year in my business of all time, I mean double my precious best year, but my heart breaks for those who have had their lives destroyed. In between the lockdown I got my hair cut and my barber was telling me how she was waking in the night in cold sweat and anxiety attacks in the shower. I also admit to being a PML fan, but I can't watch it this lockdown, I'm too over it. So, 2030? Do you System, @admin and nath45 get the vibe that this pandemic is polarising people? It seems to me that there aren't many centrist left everyone is either let's open up or I've been a bad boy punish me unelected health official. Seems that there is a lot less middle ground, I'm seriously considering shifting my vote from the coalition to the Liberal Democrats. :lol: accurate, my work seems to think we will be open next Friday. If we are, I’m buying a lottery ticket. absolutely, I know people who are 100% on the hoax train and share nonsense all day, then other people who are for forced vaccinations and think anyone not wearing a mask indoors has committed an unforgivable sin. The irony of patrons at my work (mostly retirees) who were screaming that Gladys wouldn’t lock us down in the Hunter but were out socially every night was astounding. People are dumb on all sides. I read something interesting the other day,someone said if you went in a nursing home and offered a 90 year old three more years of life in their nursing home in exchange for taking three of the best years of their youth... Nobody would dream of taking it... Yet it's what we are doing as a society.
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Post by c on Aug 12, 2021 13:36:56 GMT
What this boils down to is some people are willing to give up some freedom to protect society as a whole, others will not. Spin it however you want, but that is what it is at the end of the day. Some believe society some come first, others believe they should come first.
I am at the point where I just say give the people what they want. Open everything and let the virus spread, but allow people who want them to get boosters of the antibodies every six months. Remove public funding for treatment though for those who can get vaccinated but do not. Also allow people to decide whether or not they wish to be around the unvaccinated and allow the creation of national databases that places can use to easily verify vaccination status. This way business owners can decide whether or not they wish to allow access to the unvaccinated or not given the problems this group has been causing in many places. There also is no need to restrict the freedoms of those who are vaccinated, so vaccinated people can go unmasked at jobs that require vaccination or shop without a mask in stores that require vaccination without fear.
But that will not happen, as the people who want freedom, only want it for themselves, and do not want others to have freedom to make their own decisions. Or they want freedom when it benefits them only, if people having freedom will not benefit them, then those people should not have freedom.
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Post by nath45 on Aug 12, 2021 22:36:43 GMT
c Australia is in a very different situation to say, The United States or The UK. Much of the country is regional or vastly isolated. Western Australia for example is particularly a different country isolated from the rest of us due to a massive desert. As are different parts of the country. This after all is a country with farms bigger than some European countries. My LGA is almost 1000 square metres bigger than Greater London, but with just 0.7% of the population. So the density is completely different. Most regional centres have seen zero cases for over 12 months with little to no issues. Some places never had it at all. Yet, these regional LGA are often in lockdowns inline with Metropolitan cities. Australia has seen just 37,754 cases in 18 months. 0.14% of our population has had covid. We've lost just 0.003% of the population. What were doing now is killing business and increasing the number of mental health problems in this country.
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Post by c on Aug 12, 2021 23:01:04 GMT
On the flip side, you are the only country as large as you are to have controlled COVID. With the OG strain you may have had some breathing room to relax things a bit, but with delta, likely the second you start to relax rules COVID becomes completely uncontrollable.
Most options that would allow safety and opening things people would find utterly oppressive, like locking down cities and prohibiting travel in or out after a case is found. But something like that would allow you to close 5% of the country while the rest stays open and safe.
It does sound like your issue is related to specific areas as well, which sucks for everyone if one group is willing to take a lot of risks, and the entire country suffers from it.
But either way, every country will have to decide when the limit is reached and they decide that COVID is not worth controlling anyway. More and more doctors are thinking COVID will become replace the flu and become a seasonal infection over time.
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