Dec 14, 2021 17:38:33 GMT c said:

The problem is not Omnicron in it's current state but concerns of allowing it to spread uncontrolled as it will likely mutate as it spreads, and people often have several variants of it in them at once, as that article states. This means one sized fits all categorization of it is ill-advised as the virus that people get sick with may not be the same one they are spreading.

///

That's a nonsense
In the history of the world nobody has eliminated a corona virus, Covid is endemic and here to stay, you won't find one serious epidemiologist who disagrees with that blunt assessment.

Omnicron is not highly dangerous and having it replace Delta in the community will only lead to less deaths than delta amongst the vaccinated.
As for the unvaccinated, I look at them with the same sort of incredulous pity I reserve for life long smokers who are stunned by their lung cancer diagnosis.

Omnicron's problem is in the infected it is mutating. This was literally in the article you posted. This is a problem as when you spread the virus, if it mutates inside of you, you will spread the mutation.

Hopefully, it kills out delta and we end with a mild version it that is not a problem. But it's high mutability means that we cannot just dismiss it as harmless as it has the potential to change on a dime. And if it does the mutations already on the spike protean means it will be hard to stop since it can bypass vaccination.

We will likely know more really fast, as by the New Year we should have enough different data to compare mutations by region.

Dec 14, 2021 18:01:57 GMT c said:

Omnicron's problem is in the infected it is mutating. This was literally in the article you posted. This is a problem as when you spread the virus, if it mutates inside of you, you will spread the mutation.

Hopefully, it kills out delta and we end with a mild version it that is not a problem. But it's high mutability means that we cannot just dismiss it as harmless as it has the potential to change on a dime. And if it does the mutations already on the spike protean means it will be hard to stop since it can bypass vaccination.

We will likely know more really fast, as by the New Year we should have enough different data to compare mutations by region.

All viruses mutate, it's what viruses do.
It's the reason we are up to Omnicron.

Dec 13, 2021 15:11:05 GMT c said:

Yeah, about that. Turns out nurses, or more precisely nursing assistants, in the US are extremely anti-vax.

Vaccine mandates in the US date back to smallpox and polio. Both were massive killers in the US and mandates quickly neutered them.

Vaccines also do reduce spread. It blocks the symptomatic spread of large particle transmission. It also saves lives, as the ER load is reduced. Still limited supplies for the sickest of people, and right now they are still going to the people who oppose vaccination. So if you get vaccinated, and get a nasty breakthrough, you are competing with 10 to 20 people who are not vaccinated for transplants, specialized machines and drugs. Right now people want to not wear masks, not get vaccinated, then when they get sick, get the these limited supplies.

Here's the thing with that argument:

345,000 people died in the USA in 2020 of Covid 19, so we mandate vaccinations and masks to reduce the strain on hospitals.
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, but hey... Let's tax tobacco.
The estimated number of annual deaths attributable to obesity among US adults is approximately 280,000 based on HRs from all subjects and 325,000 based on HRs from only nonsmokers and never-smokers.

But hey... There is no insane double standard to see here, move right along.

Well, Dems have tried to ban smoking entirely. GOP blocks it. Right now in many places you can smoke in your house and car and that is. I know my apartments are considering banning smoking in the apartments we own because of the potential for smoke to go out the windows of one apartment and into another apartment. People assume if they can smell smoke they are at risk for cancer.

As for obesity liberals wanted to high fructose stuff entirely, and push the food industry to return to sucrose. The swap from sucrose to fructose was the point of inflection of the obesity epidemic. It was opposed by business groups and likely not legal since in the US the rights of businesses outweigh the rights of public health.

Same reason we cannot ban things like guns or alcohol despite the widespread death they cause. For many the right to use things that will cause a community harm is considered more important than the harm they actually cause.

As for the vaccine mandates, they will not be federally enforced in the near future, but they will be almost universally privately enforced as the unvaccinated costs companies more in lost wages, training costs and insurance companies are pushing for vaccination to keep their costs down. All the major right wing media places that oppose vaccination have vaccinate mandates in place for this reason.

I’ve heard non-stop bitching and moaning about the mask mandate for the last few months.

Go out today (+other reports) of almost everyone still wearing them and people calling for the mandate to be brought back on all the government health pages.

Definitely a divide between the people that are happy to bunker down for years on end and people that just want to live with it.

Dec 15, 2021 7:49:11 GMT c said:

Well, Dems have tried to ban smoking entirely. GOP blocks it. Right now in many places you can smoke in your house and car and that is. I know my apartments are considering banning smoking in the apartments we own because of the potential for smoke to go out the windows of one apartment and into another apartment. People assume if they can smell smoke they are at risk for cancer.

As for obesity liberals wanted to high fructose stuff entirely, and push the food industry to return to sucrose. The swap from sucrose to fructose was the point of inflection of the obesity epidemic. It was opposed by business groups and likely not legal since in the US the rights of businesses outweigh the rights of public health.

Same reason we cannot ban things like guns or alcohol despite the widespread death they cause. For many the right to use things that will cause a community harm is considered more important than the harm they actually cause.

As for the vaccine mandates, they will not be federally enforced in the near future, but they will be almost universally privately enforced as the unvaccinated costs companies more in lost wages, training costs and insurance companies are pushing for vaccination to keep their costs down. All the major right wing media places that oppose vaccination have vaccinate mandates in place for this reason.

Yeah, your reply was a bit crap.
They could straight up ban smoking tomorrow BAM! Tobacco is illegal and save 400k lives per year... But they won't.
So why obsess about Covid deaths when tobacco deaths and health care costs are the most easy to prevent with legislation?
Because there's money to be made in tobacco.
There is no money to be made in allowing Covid-19, but there is a tonne to be made off legislating vaccines.

it's always a case of follow the money.

Dec 15, 2021 8:17:48 GMT iNCY said:

Dec 15, 2021 7:49:11 GMT c said:

Well, Dems have tried to ban smoking entirely. GOP blocks it. Right now in many places you can smoke in your house and car and that is. I know my apartments are considering banning smoking in the apartments we own because of the potential for smoke to go out the windows of one apartment and into another apartment. People assume if they can smell smoke they are at risk for cancer.

As for obesity liberals wanted to high fructose stuff entirely, and push the food industry to return to sucrose. The swap from sucrose to fructose was the point of inflection of the obesity epidemic. It was opposed by business groups and likely not legal since in the US the rights of businesses outweigh the rights of public health.

Same reason we cannot ban things like guns or alcohol despite the widespread death they cause. For many the right to use things that will cause a community harm is considered more important than the harm they actually cause.

As for the vaccine mandates, they will not be federally enforced in the near future, but they will be almost universally privately enforced as the unvaccinated costs companies more in lost wages, training costs and insurance companies are pushing for vaccination to keep their costs down. All the major right wing media places that oppose vaccination have vaccinate mandates in place for this reason.

Yeah, your reply was a bit crap.
They could straight up ban smoking tomorrow BAM! Tobacco is illegal and save 400k lives per year... But they won't.
So why obsess about Covid deaths when tobacco deaths and health care costs are the most easy to prevent with legislation?
Because there's money to be made in tobacco.
There is no money to be made in allowing Covid-19, but there is a tonne to be made off legislating vaccines.

it's always a case of follow the money.

Spot on. 

Dec 15, 2021 8:17:48 GMT iNCY said:

Dec 15, 2021 7:49:11 GMT c said:

Well, Dems have tried to ban smoking entirely. GOP blocks it. Right now in many places you can smoke in your house and car and that is. I know my apartments are considering banning smoking in the apartments we own because of the potential for smoke to go out the windows of one apartment and into another apartment. People assume if they can smell smoke they are at risk for cancer.

As for obesity liberals wanted to high fructose stuff entirely, and push the food industry to return to sucrose. The swap from sucrose to fructose was the point of inflection of the obesity epidemic. It was opposed by business groups and likely not legal since in the US the rights of businesses outweigh the rights of public health.

Same reason we cannot ban things like guns or alcohol despite the widespread death they cause. For many the right to use things that will cause a community harm is considered more important than the harm they actually cause.

As for the vaccine mandates, they will not be federally enforced in the near future, but they will be almost universally privately enforced as the unvaccinated costs companies more in lost wages, training costs and insurance companies are pushing for vaccination to keep their costs down. All the major right wing media places that oppose vaccination have vaccinate mandates in place for this reason.

Yeah, your reply was a bit crap.
They could straight up ban smoking tomorrow BAM! Tobacco is illegal and save 400k lives per year... But they won't.
So why obsess about Covid deaths when tobacco deaths and health care costs are the most easy to prevent with legislation?
Because there's money to be made in tobacco.
There is no money to be made in allowing Covid-19, but there is a tonne to be made off legislating vaccines.

it's always a case of follow the money.

Not gonna see tobacco banned until Mitch McConnell is removed from the senate.  He received millions from big tobacco over the years and for decades been their point man for the senate.  Is it really hypocritical when the same people who promote big tobacco are the same ones who oppose vaccine mandates, whereas the people who promote vaccine mandates want to ban smoking?

Currently the vaccinations are supported via socialist policy.  So prices are controlled as well with a discount for US sales.  The profit is made by allowing them to keep the IP and dump their wears to the rest of the world, rather than releasing the IP from copyright.  The real profit is not from US vaccine mandates from vaccine mandates in other countries were they get twice the price.

Eitherway, government here will likely drop the vaccine mandate in the very near future as the private sector is more than willing to fire people who are not vaccinated.  Tech companies are moving this way now, and those not willing to fire are more than happy to push the increased healthcare insurance costs to the unvaccinated, essentially fining them for not being vaccinated.  The reason all the talk about mandates are healthcare workers or public service workers is because private businesses can fire at will and being unvaccinated outside of ADA protection is a legit reason to fire someone.

Dec 15, 2021 12:15:24 GMT c said:

Dec 15, 2021 8:17:48 GMT iNCY said:

Yeah, your reply was a bit crap.
They could straight up ban smoking tomorrow BAM! Tobacco is illegal and save 400k lives per year... But they won't.
So why obsess about Covid deaths when tobacco deaths and health care costs are the most easy to prevent with legislation?
Because there's money to be made in tobacco.
There is no money to be made in allowing Covid-19, but there is a tonne to be made off legislating vaccines.

it's always a case of follow the money.

Not gonna see tobacco banned until Mitch McConnell is removed from the senate.  He received millions from big tobacco over the years and for decades been their point man for the senate.  Is it really hypocritical when the same people who promote big tobacco are the same ones who oppose vaccine mandates, whereas the people who promote vaccine mandates want to ban smoking?

Currently the vaccinations are supported via socialist policy.  So prices are controlled as well with a discount for US sales.  The profit is made by allowing them to keep the IP and dump their wears to the rest of the world, rather than releasing the IP from copyright.  The real profit is not from US vaccine mandates from vaccine mandates in other countries were they get twice the price.

Eitherway, government here will likely drop the vaccine mandate in the very near future as the private sector is more than willing to fire people who are not vaccinated.  Tech companies are moving this way now, and those not willing to fire are more than happy to push the increased healthcare insurance costs to the unvaccinated, essentially fining them for not being vaccinated.  The reason all the talk about mandates are healthcare workers or public service workers is because private businesses can fire at will and being unvaccinated outside of ADA protection is a legit reason to fire someone.

Again, yu have sailed past every point I made in an effort to continue your regular scheduled broadcast of the GOP is the devil
My point... Again... Is that there is:
No moral position for vaccine mandates if the banning of tobacco products hasn't even been raised by the same politicians proposing the mandates.

I'm not proposing that smoking should be banned but there is a simple and obvious example of hypocritical double standards.

But the same politicians who push for the mask mandates have pushed for the ban of tobacco and effectively killed the e-cig market.

Dec 15, 2021 17:12:55 GMT c said:

But the same politicians who push for the mask mandates have pushed for the ban of tobacco and effectively killed the e-cig market.

Which state governor has outlawed the sale of tobacco full stop?
Banning vapes is the exact same hypocritical posturing as vaccine mandates, whether you're protecting the interests of big pharma or big tobacco.

No one is going to straight out ban tobacco sales since the Supreme Court will rule such a law is unconstitutional, and it is violation of the WTO tobacco policies. Banning tobacco will be like banning alcohol in the US and will take a constitutional amendment.

So instead they ban smoking everywhere that is not privately owned and not open to the public as that is the near the legal limits of what can be done without encroaching on the first amendment and WTO guidelines.

Friend of a friend died from Covid complications today. We only met once but she was one of those people you couldn't help but like. Amazing artist, always putting out genuine positive energy and loved by all our mutual friends. 2 years younger than me...

The whole thing is just heartbreaking and unfair. Fuck Covid.

Dec 15, 2021 19:07:02 GMT c said:

No one is going to straight out ban tobacco sales since the Supreme Court will rule such a law is unconstitutional, and it is violation of the WTO tobacco policies. Banning tobacco will be like banning alcohol in the US and will take a constitutional amendment.

So instead they ban smoking everywhere that is not privately owned and not open to the public as that is the near the legal limits of what can be done without encroaching on the first amendment and WTO guidelines.

Explain to me the difference between making cigarettes and steroids illegal?

I'm sure theend is amused

By trying to tie banning tobacco

Into covid, or covid in general

Dec 15, 2021 22:32:36 GMT iNCY said:

Dec 15, 2021 19:07:02 GMT c said:

No one is going to straight out ban tobacco sales since the Supreme Court will rule such a law is unconstitutional, and it is violation of the WTO tobacco policies. Banning tobacco will be like banning alcohol in the US and will take a constitutional amendment.

So instead they ban smoking everywhere that is not privately owned and not open to the public as that is the near the legal limits of what can be done without encroaching on the first amendment and WTO guidelines.

Explain to me the difference between making cigarettes and steroids illegal?

Steroids are covered by drug laws in the US, cigarettes are not and the power of to regulate cigarettes by the FDA is limited, whereas they have unlimited power to regulate drugs.  The law literally is that cigarettes cannot be banned, nor their nicotine levels reduced to zero.

Ditto for trade agreements regarding tobacco and free trade.  Most countries are in agreements to not ban cigarettes.

CDC advising Americans not to take the J&J vaccine anymore and leave that to our allies we will sell it to instead because it is less effective.

Dec 16, 2021 2:51:22 GMT 🤯 said:

I'm sure theend is amused

By trying to tie banning tobacco

Into covid, or covid in general

Ban big staircase, ladders and martial arts classes for all the injuries and deaths they cause. Ban marriage because domestic partners kill each other. Legislate and sue to death.

On that joke. How does big motorcycle get away with their reckless machines while the auto industry continues to cuck out to the gov with all their seatbelts and airbags?

Dec 17, 2021 13:29:48 GMT theend said:

Dec 16, 2021 2:51:22 GMT 🤯 said:

I'm sure theend is amused

By trying to tie banning tobacco

Into covid, or covid in general

Ban big staircase, ladders and martial arts classes for all the injuries and deaths they cause. Ban marriage because domestic partners kill each other. Legislate and sue to death.

On that joke. How does big motorcycle get away with their reckless machines while the auto industry continues to cuck out to the gov with all their seatbelts and airbags?

Harley knows how to to use their hogs to pork barrel senators.

Legalize Everything with the logo "sink or swim motherfucker"

c and/or Todd, help.

What's the latest deal on Pfizer not working on 2-5 year-olds?

Dec 17, 2021 23:20:20 GMT @ness said:

Legalize Everything with the logo "sink or swim motherfucker"

Love this idea.
(but it SINK OR SWIM something political?)

My kids got their first shots today. They were total champs and got Dairy Queen after. My son even watched his happen. Nurse was like "hey buddy look at your dad for a sec," and my son was like "uhh you're holding a needle I'm not taking my fucking eyes off you." Got the jab, gave a little "ow," thought about crying but decided he was alright. Played Tetris on my phone while he had to sit in the room for 15 minutes after.

My daughter is groggy tonight but son seems fine. We'll see what the weekend brings. They both bounce back pretty quick when they get sick so even if they have side effects I'm not worried.

Wife and I are eligible for boosters and gotta book those. Hopefully we don't get sick again. Neither of us did after our 2nd dose so hopefully it's the same deal.

I have a rant in me about my time at the mall this week but I'll do that later.

Dec 18, 2021 3:24:14 GMT 🤯 said:

c and/or Todd , help.

What's the latest deal on Pfizer not working on 2-5 year-olds?

Low dose of the vaccine does not give high dose of protection.

Mass outbreaks expected in the next few weeks.

Nothing to worry about, if you never been sick in your entire life you are nothing to be afraid of. And it is just a cold, that also happens to send people to the hospital for oxygen treatment and kills them. But don't trust me, listen to these people reporting their findings on alt right news stations instead of peer reviewed sources like Nature or Cell. We all know Newsmax is where the world goes for it's top scientific developments.

I listened to some of that TRUTH science and no one even died of COVID.  Not a single case of it was ever confirmed, it is just a liberal conspiracy to make Trump look bad that ended as soon as Biden was elected president.  

Vaccine mandate going to the supreme court. Appeal court put it back in action.

Any other country losing their shit over this "Omicron" variant, or is it just us that's acting like the end times?

This is the time we live in. Covid has changed things... forever.

Omicron is expected to pack hospitals very fast as it spreads way, way faster than the past variants. Coin flip as to whether or not it recombines with Delta in the US, which could make it more lethal while allowing it to spread fast and bypass protection.