I'm so confused by the Brock moments that aren't appearing when and where I'd expect them to...

Brock Lesnar sucks anyway.

Brock Lesnar is amazing.

Sept 26, 2020 2:48:02 GMT Lionheart said:

Brock Lesnar sucks anyway.

Brock Lesnar is amazing.

I've been meaning to call you out for how well you've adapted to the new policy.

Working the Broken System™ just like DBE loopholes in federal procurement requirements to get filthy rich off the government!

Sept 26, 2020 2:45:27 GMT 🤯 said:

I'm so confused by the Brock moments that aren't appearing when and where I'd expect them to...

A few Brock Cena moments got staggered because for some reason other people voted for them too.

My latest three were

New Day vs. Uso Rap Battle: It was some good moments there from both sides but the battle was over after the rated R comment.

Golden Rolemodels celebrating with all the main roster women's titles: The exact moment was Bayley coming to hug Sasha after she beat of Kairi back stage. But I liked the tribute you found too. It made Bayley seem like a genius, it made Sasha a champion, made Asuka look like a hero when she but her friend above a title, and wrote off Kairi. I thought it was well done.

Dolph Ziggler's cash in: Probably my favorite cash in since I was waiting for it the most.

6. Yokozuna Squashes Hulkamania- Rounding out the Foreign Fanatics trilogy of Top 10 moments from 1993....

I was not a Hulk Hogan fan growing up. In fact, I was a Hogan hater. He was the boring superman good guy who (almost) always one. Basically the John Cena or Roman Reigns of my day, only more so.

Aside from his GOAT contender Banzai Drop finisher, I wasn't really enamored with early Yokozuna either. He won the Royal Rumble as a relative noob and beat Bret to win the belt at Wrestlemania.....

In a midcard main event. See, I wasn't buying Bret as WWF Champ either. While I obviously didn't have the words for it in 92-93, Bret was the first guy I viewed as a midcard WWF Champ. Bret wrestling a trio of noobs and other midcarders on PPV during his first championship reign was a sign that WWF wasn't quite what it used to be. Probably the first time I can recall thinking that tbh.

So far from being shocked and appalled at the Bret-Yoko-Hogan WM 9 title switcheroo, I saw it as a return to normalcy. I may not have liked The Hulkster, but I could at least grit my teeth and respect him as the top guy. Like him or not, and I didn't, Hulk Hogan made this business, brother. Hogan leaving WM 9 with the belt rather than Bret or Yoko made all the sense in the world to me. It was, in fact, the only logical choice.

But now we were faced with the same old dilemma- an unbeatable Hogan on top for the foreseeable future. Yawn. I mean it was so obvious he was going to take down the latest foreign monster at KOTR and then move onto the next big bad guy....

Only that didn't happen. Yoko actually did it! Mind blown! Yoko was now a made man in my book. And he basically parlayed that one moment all the way to a spot on my 50 Favorite Wrestlers list. And why not? He just got the biggest rub of all time! Yeah, I went there. There has never been, and will never be, a bigger rub than "guy who squashed Hulkamania." Think about it....For 9 years every heel worth his salt vowed to end Hulkamania. They all failed. Every last one of them. Legend after legend succumbed to the awesome power of Hulkamania. Until The Mighty Yokozuna. For over 8 glorious years, Hulkamania was now dead in WWF. And for one glorious year, Hulkamania was dead throughout all of (US) wrestling. I had Yokozuna to thank for that.

Plus Hogan never slammed Yoko. Meaning Yoko > Andre! Hogan not slamming Yoko also set up the big Lex Luger moment a few weeks later. Booking....long term planning....These are good things.

My one minor nitpick with this otherwise awesome moment is the identity of the evil cameraman who helped end Hulkamania. Now my friends and I just retconned it into being Jim Cornette when he debuted a short time later as Yoko's ally. That made all the sense in the world. But I don't think it was ever mentioned, or even hinted at, on WWF tv. A missed opportunity for sure. "Guy who helped end Hulkamania" would have given Cornette a massive rub, and even more heat. 
================
RT Did somebody else vote for my #5? I was expecting to see it show up in this batch.
================
And from my big list of 100+....

33. Funk attacks Flair- Strobe did a great job of covering this memorable moment. It was just about the damnedest thing I had seen up to that point.
61. Funk wins ECW Championship at Barely Legal- This time it's Funk as a good guy getting the ultimate "thank you" on ECW's first PPV.

One of mine made it pass a round, nice.

Only one from the last two:

20. John Cena deadlifts the weight of both the absurdly overweight Big Show and Edge on his shoulders at WrestleMania 25 (jTjohncenaGOAT’s words)

Bunch of great mentions though. Highly enjoying this RT.

1.
2.
3. Rob Van Dam wins the WWE Championship
4.
5. Jon Moxley debuts in AEW
6.
7. The Dudley Boyz turn on Right To Censor
8.
9.
10.
11.
12. Finn Balor attacks Johnny Gargano
13. The Hardy Boyz return at Wrestlemania 33
14. CM Punk signs his WWE contract on the ROH World title
15. The Milk Truck
16.
17.
18. Shane McMahon is the owner of WCW
21.
22.
21. Paul Heyman confronts Mr. McMahon before Survivor Series 2001
22. Chris Jericho enters the Tokyo Dome at Wrestle Kingdom 12
23. Hiromu Takahashi returns from injury; confronts Will Ospreay
24. The Dudley Boyz return after Summerslam 2015
25. Seth Rollins cashes in at Wrestlemania 31


If I remember correctly, RVD's title win was my #2 last time we did this. It's only fallen one spot, for a moment that means a little more to me.

Very few times have I been brought near tears over a title win. RVD winning the big one was one of those times. I was in a room full of friends watching that PPV and I was right there along with the ECW faithful with the "If Cena Wins We Riot" signs. RVD could not leave that building without the title and even knowing that going in, it was still fucking amazing to see happen.

As some of you know, RT stands for Rolling Thunder. I was an RVD mark for many years. And someone I've followed for nearly a decade had pulled off a win that very few people can say they've done. It was incredible to witness and I loved every second. This will always be a huge moment for me.

...

A moment that found its way into my top 5 is a moment that changed wrestling for the next several decades. I mentioned this with Jericho's Tokyo Dome entrance, and I mention it again now.

When Jon Moxley descended on the ring that night, the wrestling world changed for the better. I don't really need to explain to you why. But I marked, I knew I was witnessing important history, and it didn't hurt that Ambrose/Moxley has been one of my favourites for a while.

Interesting fact, I never know that was what RT stood for.

Yo I've watched the Goldberg/Hogan video I posted three times now. I forgot how hot that crowd was. What a great moment. Goldberg was incredible back then.

A whole bunch of first title wins where in that last set.

Surprised somebody else voted for my #3 and #5.

4. Sgt. Slaughter beats Warrior to win the WWF Championship- Similar deal to Yoko/Hogan.

I didn't give a hoot about Slaughter coming into this. If anything, I was mildly anti-Slaughter. He was just this rather annoying guy I had no real attachment to, having missed his first WWF run, and being only a casual GI Joe watcher. I did catch him as the top good guy in dying day AWA, but I was a Larry Zbyszko fan during that run.

Warrior, on the other hand, had surpassed Hogan as my least favorite wrestler due to being the one guy to ever out-Hogan Hogan. Yet this match was barely on my radar heading into the show. Slaughter had no chance. I assumed Warrior would steamroll this B level challenger. 

Boy was I wrong. There was this big angle with Warrior vs. Macho & Sherri earlier in the show that I don't feel like explaining, but it lead to Macho King blasting Warrior with a home run swing in the scepter shot heard 'round the world (honestly this is probably my all time favorite Macho Man moment). One elbow drop later and Slaughter had done the impossible by beaten the unbeatable Warrior. Sarge instantly went from worst to (almost) first in my eyes, which caused me to get huge real life heat from my friends. I actually had a fist fight with this one guy Vogel over my Sgt. Slaughter fandom! An old neighbor loaned my family a tape of Royal Rumble '91 a day or so after it aired. I must have watched parts of that show (namely Mountie's debut and Slaughter beating Warrior) dozens of times in the few weeks I had the tape. Good times.....
===============
Nothing else made my list from these batches.
RVD finally winning a World Title from the hated John Cena at an ECW tribute show should have been an all time great moment. I mean, that sounds perfect when you consider I was an actual fan of the original ECW, an RVD fan since '98, and somebody who spent years desperately wanting to see Rob win the big one. Yet the whole thing fell weirdly flat with me. Maybe it was a case of "too little, too late." More likely I was annoyed by WWE forcing Edge into RVD's big moment. Or maybe I was just in a deeply cynical phase due to being too old for this nonsense. Whatever the reason, I liked, rather than loved, a moment which seemed geared to generating an all time great Baker pop. Sure, I was still happy. But I wasn't ecstatic. Didn't even make my big list of 140. Weird. 

Wish I had thought of Daniel Bryan's return. Would have been very high on my list. Even though I don't watch WWE anymore, Bryan is one of my all time favourite wrestlers. He gets my attention.

Tetsuya Naito defeats Kazuchika Okada in the Tokyo Dome - Wrestle Kingdom 14

RT, is this included as part of my #10 moment or did you count them separately?

Sept 28, 2020 11:49:48 GMT Emperor said:

Wish I had thought of Daniel Bryan's return. Would have been very high on my list. Even though I don't watch WWE anymore, Bryan is one of my all time favourite wrestlers. He gets my attention.

Tetsuya Naito defeats Kazuchika Okada in the Tokyo Dome - Wrestle Kingdom 14

RT , is this included as part of my #10 moment or did you count them separately?

I counted them separately. KENTA attacking Naito was already posted at #38. I felt Naito finally getting the big win over Okada and the aftermath were two huge enough moments to count them separate.

Agreed with the separation although it didn't even occur to me to separate them when forming my list. I also forgot that I had already talked about KENTA attacking Naito :lol:

Wrestle Kingdom 14 is the defining moment of Naito's career and the culmination of a story that began way back in 2013 when the fans viciously turned against G1 Climax winner Naito, leading to his promised main event against Okada being relegated to second billing (behind Tanahashi/Nakamura) due to a fan vote. Naito assumed his Ingobernable persona as a result, and since then his ultimate goal has been retribution: main event the Tokyo Dome in victory against Kazuchika Okada with the support of the fans behind him. He had a shot against Okada at 2018 but was defeated. He would not be denied in 2020. Seven year's worth of pent up frustration absolved.

In addition to that, he closed the first ever two-day Wrestle Kingdom, and became the first ever double IWGP Heavyweight/Intercontinental Champion in history. Not bad for two day's work.

15. Adam Cole wins First Ever NAC Ladder Match Takeover: New Orleans April 7, 2018

Fuck the haters, I love Adam Cole and after a grueling ladder match him winning the first ever NAC was awesome!

I haven't watched a lot of AEW but Omega and Matt Hardy chasing Sammy G down in the golf cart was great. :lol:

I'll make one more post today and then all the entries that didn't get more than one vote will be posted. Not a whole lot of ties after that. There are some but not many.

Which idiot uploaded that video to YouTube? "Sibasta returns to NJPW" :lol: :lol:

That moment in 2017 is the most emotional I've felt watching pro-wrestling since...perhaps ever. Fans were crying in the audience. I was crying. Maybe for that reason, it should have been my #1, but it has little significance besides being a really wonderful surprise.

It's also one of the loudest most sustained pops I've ever heard from a Japanese audience. They don't like to make much noise, but they went nuts for Shibata. As they should have.

Kinda shocked there isn't a better quality YouTube video of that return.

Sept 29, 2020 16:08:47 GMT Emperor said:

Which idiot uploaded that video to YouTube? "Sibasta returns to NJPW" :lol: :lol:

That moment in 2017 is the most emotional I've felt watching pro-wrestling since...perhaps ever. Fans were crying in the audience. I was crying. Maybe for that reason, it should have been my #1, but it has little significance besides being a really wonderful surprise.

It's also one of the loudest most sustained pops I've ever heard from a Japanese audience. They don't like to make much noise, but they went nuts for Shibata. As they should have.

I noticed that too. I wonder if its spelled wrong on purpose because NJPW is pretty on top of pulling copyright video.

2. Sandman returns to ECW- Skip ahead to 1:48 on the video RT posted.

Sandman left ECW for WCW about a year before the video. This is his big return to the Land of Extreme.

I've attended something like 70 wrestling shows over the past 33 years. I've been lucky enough to witness some major moments and been a part of some massive ovations. Sandman's unannounced return to the ECW Arena is the coolest moment I ever saw live and easily the biggest pop I was ever a part of. It's not even close. From a per capita standpoint, I think this just might be the biggest pop, and most sustained roar, in wrestling history. It was insane. People were high fiving random strangers. I went to this show with my cousin. He mouthed the words "Holy Shit" to me when the spotlight shone on Sandman. Or maybe he screamed those words and I just couldn't hear him over the roar of the crowd despite the fact that he was standing right next to me? Yeah, it's probably that. I can't speak for everybody else in attendance, but I personally was burned out before Sandman's return. See, before Sandman returned, I got to see an exhausting RVD/Sabu classic. But you better believe Sandman's return gave me a second wind. I was hoarse for a day or two and on cloud nine for a few days more. What a moment. What a time to be alive.

DX invading Nitro is a good shout. I forgot to put that on my big list but it definitely belongs. Coolest thing DX ever did. 

Baker that is so cool you were there. I've watched that video probably 50 times in my life. Easily one of the best pops I've ever heard.

2. DX Invades WCW

Yep, I placed it high. Absolutely so much fun. A segment for the ages.  I friggin always crack up with the branches on Billy's helmet.  :rofl:  

I was remiss in not putting Drew Mac eliminating Brock and Jericho becoming UC. They both deserve to be on my list and fairly high up.

I was going to post to ask why someone would have Shibata's career-ending moment as a favorite, but then I watched the video and... Not knowing the consequences in real life, that was a pretty awesome moment not knowing the kayfabe/match context.

I hate that I never got my Lesnar/Shibata dream match.

My #1 and Strobe's #1 at the same time. I'll talk about mine tomorrow.

Sept 29, 2020 17:17:13 GMT RT said:

I've watched that video probably 50 times in my life. Easily one of the best pops I've ever heard.

I'm right there with you. Sandman's return has to be my most watched wrestling video since joining PW 8 years ago. I check it out every few months. Never fails to put me in a good mood. Didn't think my #1 would ever be topped, but I can honestly see Sandman's return overtaking it the next time we do this.
================
Since we're through the single vote stage I figure now is a good time to share my list up to this point...

1.
2. Sandman returns to ECW
3. 
4. Slaughter beats Warrior for the WWF Championship
5. 
6. Yokozuna squashes Hulkamania
7. 
8. Quebecers win tag titles from the Steiners
9. Ludvig Borga ends Tatanka's undefeated streak
10. Hart Foundation beat Bulldogs for the WWF Tag Team Championship
11. 
12.
13. Mr. Backlund beats Bret for the WWF Championship
14. Ric Flair beats Vader for the WCW Championship
15. Honkytonk Man beats Steamboat for the IC Championship
16. Goldust beats Razor for the IC Championship
17. Dean Malenko beats Shinjiro Otani for the WCW Cruiserweight Championship on Worldwide
18. 
19. Ric Flair returns to Nitro- Shoots on Bischoff.
20. Vader assaults corrupt commissioner Gorilla Monsoon
21. Horowitz Wins! (beats Skip)
22. Dude Love debuts. Wins tag titles with Steve Austin
23. Jerry Lawler invades the ECW Arena
24. Jerry Lawler beats Curt Hennig to finally win a World Championship (AWA)
25. Shawn Michaels collapses on Raw following an Owen Hart concussion kick

Randy Orton counters The Curb Stomp into an RKO
Mark Henry fakes his retirement

Both were mine

RKO is one of my favorite moves of all time, and that counter was a thing of beauty.

Mark Henry was one of my favorites during the Hall of Pain period. Usually I see things coming in wrestling but that speech was so heartfelt I didn't see it coming. One of the best swerves I ever seen.

Katsuyori Shibata suffers career-ending injury

My #1 moment. Let me explain.

In late 2016 and early 2017, Katsuyori Shibata was my favourite wrestler in the world. Easily. After years of being held back in NJPW for deserting the company, he had kept quiet, kept working, paying his dues, and was given a slow push to the top. He earnt everyone's respect and adoration. The crowd started to love him. I started to love him. He was putting on classic after classic for midcard titles. Then, in 2017, he won the New Japan Cup (my #7 moment) which was a pretty big shocker at the time. This sets up the biggest match of Shibata's career: his first shot at the IWGP Heavyweight Champonship. Shibata vs Okada.

The match itself is my favourite match of all time, and one I would love to revisit, but the ending is tragic. In the tail end of the match, Shibata hits Okada with a shoot headbutt, with an audible and horrific crack. He had done this on occasion before, with no consequence, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. He looked fine for the rest of the match, was pinned by Okada, but then things didn't look right.

Shibata had to be helped to the back, his right side completely limp, as if he had suffered a stroke. The significance of this was not understood at the time, wrestlers are often escorted out of the ring battered after a long, hard-hitting match.

A few hours later it was revealed that Shibata had suffered a life-threatening brain injury. His life was saved by emergency surgery, but of course he was not cleared to wrestle and will not likely be cleared to wrestle ever again.

This is why his surprise appearance about four months later (#2 on my list) was so huge. It was his first appearance since the injury.

It's a negative moment, but the most significant moment in my time as a pro-wrestling fan. My favourite wrestler at the time goes out after wrestling the most important and best match of his career.

The story ends happily. Shibata was given charge to open a new NJPW training dojo in Florida. From what I've read Shibata loves the job and has been very successful in training American wrestlers to learn the Japanese style.

Sept 30, 2020 19:22:40 GMT Emperor said:

Shibata was given charge to open a new NJPW training dojo in Florida. From what I've read Shibata loves the job and has been very successful in training American wrestlers to learn the Japanese style.

The Japanese style of self-inflicting career-ending brain injuries?

Sept 30, 2020 19:22:40 GMT Emperor said:

Katsuyori Shibata suffers career-ending injury

My #1 moment. Let me explain.

In late 2016 and early 2017, Katsuyori Shibata was my favourite wrestler in the world. Easily. After years of being held back in NJPW for deserting the company, he had kept quiet, kept working, paying his dues, and was given a slow push to the top. He earnt everyone's respect and adoration. The crowd started to love him. I started to love him. He was putting on classic after classic for midcard titles. Then, in 2017, he won the New Japan Cup (my #7 moment) which was a pretty big shocker at the time. This sets up the biggest match of Shibata's career: his first shot at the IWGP Heavyweight Champonship. Shibata vs Okada.

The match itself is my favourite match of all time, and one I would love to revisit, but the ending is tragic. In the tail end of the match, Shibata hits Okada with a shoot headbutt, with an audible and horrific crack. He had done this on occasion before, with no consequence, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. He looked fine for the rest of the match, was pinned by Okada, but then things didn't look right.

Shibata had to be helped to the back, his right side completely limp, as if he had suffered a stroke. The significance of this was not understood at the time, wrestlers are often escorted out of the ring battered after a long, hard-hitting match.

A few hours later it was revealed that Shibata had suffered a life-threatening brain injury. His life was saved by emergency surgery, but of course he was not cleared to wrestle and will not likely be cleared to wrestle ever again.

This is why his surprise appearance about four months later (#2 on my list) was so huge. It was his first appearance since the injury.

It's a negative moment, but the most significant moment in my time as a pro-wrestling fan. My favourite wrestler at the time goes out after wrestling the most important and best match of his career.

The story ends happily. Shibata was given charge to open a new NJPW training dojo in Florida. From what I've read Shibata loves the job and has been very successful in training American wrestlers to learn the Japanese style.

Shibata's injury broke my heart. He was finally.. FINALLY on the cusp of the main event, where he belonged. It couldn't have come at a worse time, and it double sucks that he may never wrestle again.

Hiromu Takahashi's injury was nearly on the same level for me. He was one of my favourite performers to watch in all of wrestling, and he was poised to be on top of the Lightheavyweight division and make the jump to the US or IC title picture. Then he breaks his neck. At least he's back though, and should still go on to some great things over the next few years.