Jul 21, 2021 0:03:49 GMT 🤯 said:

How sure are we IRS was blown up and not just dehydrated?

Asking because I'm not sure I've ever seen a sweatier wrestler.

So much salt water would be involved if IRS and Bossman were ever in the ring together, it might as well be billed as an Under the Sea Match.

It doesn't help that they wrestle in uniform/shirt and tie.

Jul 21, 2021 0:03:49 GMT 🤯 said:

How sure are we IRS was blown up and not just dehydrated?

Asking because I'm not sure I've ever seen a sweatier wrestler.

So much salt water would be involved if IRS and Bossman were ever in the ring together, it might as well be billed as an Under the Sea Match.

It really is insane , even crazier when you consider that of a 3-5 minute squash most of it is spent taunting or casually walking around. It’s not like he’s out there working his ass off.

IRS just chilling, laying down with rest holds, sweating like Patrick Ewing on the foul line, like something had to be wrong with him, this couldn't be a healthy man.

Going to have to respectfully disagree with Baker-man on Jarrett squashes, I’ve come to really like them.

Love that he still cheats to beat all the jobbers. I love the crowd work and heat he draws old school style , including post match beat downs. And it’s working!

Jul 22, 2021 3:29:21 GMT UT said:

Going to have to respectfully disagree with Baker -man on Jarrett squashes, I’ve come to really like them.

Love that he still cheats to beat all the jobbers. I love the crowd work and heat he draws old school style , including post match beat downs. And it’s working!

This pleases me. I'm not going to besmirch somebody putting over Double J. To be fair it's been a dog's age since I watched Jarrett squashes from this era. Could be they aged like fine wine. 

Also agree with you guys on IRS and Bossman being the sweatiest wrestlers ever. Though we should take their outfits into account. Had to be rough wrestling in that gear.

Johnny Polo is great. I think he’s seriously underrated as a manager. Also…

He’s great as a color guy with Vince. Legit could have made a great career or it. Also he now has a soundboard on Superstars commentary and it’s golden.

Stan Lane looks like the Wish version of Lex Luger now.

My new power or lack of there rankings heading into WMX

The Best

1. The Managers - Really just Cornette and Polo. Say what you will about Cornette now but that guy was so great on the mic and as a heel in general its a blast to watch. Polo is right there with him as well and someone whom I've totally overlooked in the hierarchy of great wrestling managers. They are managers so it shouldn't be to shocking to say that they are SO head and shoulders above everyone else in the WWE at the moment on the mic its not even funny.

2. Owen Hart - Love watching him come into his own again here - he's improved great on the mic even if he still stumbles from time to time because I think he's trying to get the words out just too fast. Still though the Owen stuff is gold and he is the perfect shit heel brother.

3. Bret Hart - Have him a tad behind Owen but this is easily the era where he bad mic skills get exploited. He's just cringe at time - good thing he can work like few others and was determined to have a good match with everyone from Tom Pritchard to Adam Bomb. And he still has that natural charisma cool guy presence.

4. Shawn Michaels - Probably could be higher because he's better than Owen at this point but it's been more of a steady climb as opposed to a rocket to the top. This feud with Razor could very well be the true catapulting moment for HBK and put him on the stage to becoming one of the biggest stars of the era.

5. Jeff Jarrett - As I said earlier , I'm actually quite enjoying this early stuff. One of the few guys on the roster who really seem to go all out being the bastard heel that likes to play easy to hate. Love the outfits all over again as well. Jarrett was just a ton of fun.


The worst of the worst:

1. IRS - It's been talked about a ton but IRS is just not good - especially at this point. He is like one of those dolls that has three different sayings depending on how many times you push the button and in an era of caricatures he is the most cringe and bordering on a caricature of a caricature.

2. Tatanka - Yeah still out on him as well. They just had the feather ceremony thing on RAW and it was absolutely awful. I don't get it at all. At least these two are heading for a feud together. Ugh.

3. Adam Bomb - I know I said I liked him earlier and I do think the man behind the gimmick has potential. He's huge , athletic and seems to get it for stretches at a time but straddled with such a brutal gimmick his ceiling was capped. Whippelman is a nothing as a manager as well.

4. Stan Lane - Thank god he's finally seemingly off of commentary. He's better at the desk as a straight laced news anchor type than on commentary though.

5. Doink - Probably should be higher , it's a shame because he was atop my last best list. I know it's been waxed upon for years about how the WWF in this time ruined the Doink character but it needs to be said. He went from one of the best things in the company to one of the worst in a matter of a few weeks. Shame too.

UT, was it noticeable when they changed Doink from Matt Borne to whoever followed in Borne's clown shoes? Or was it hard to pinpoint when the hand off happened?

I’m 65% sure it happened right as the character turn happened because he looks different. Only 65% sure because they could also have just changed the face paint.

Can’t be understated how good WMX is, the opener and ladder match get the pub for obvious reasons but that main (outside of the weird end) is underrated as hell.

And Owen coming out at the end is such perfect storytelling from opening to close and the epitome of storytelling In wrestling.

Crazy to me that after years of conditioning to the RAW after Mania being a huge deal that after a pretty monumental show they open RAW with at least a two segment Bushwhacker/Quebecers match.

Though it’s a pretty good one considering.

Scratch that - we have a big return. Captain Lou!

Looks like my labeling was fine. T'was a meh episode IMO...

SUPERSTARS | S07 E24 | 06/13/1992

Jobber to the Superstars: Barry Horowitz
The Howitzer makes his first appearance in his watch-thru, and gives Tatanka a solidly entertaining squash. I'm surprised we've seen so little of Barry so far, especially considering how many times Duane Gill & Barry Hardy have appeared.

Also, suddenly realizing/wishing Barry Hardy & Barry Horowitz had had a JTTS tag team based on their Barry/BH initials connection. Maybe the Very Barry Hunks? Anyway...

Speaking of hunks, runnerup is Ron Cumberledge who was looking extra rugged in closeup thanks to his chest hair and stubble.

Squash of the Week: The Natural Disasters vs. The Executioners
Most of the squashes were on par with each other. The only bad one was Nailz's, despite Rugged Runnerup Ron's best efforts. Nailz is just that terrible.

Anyway... The Executioners looking like sweatsuit Great Sasuke cosplayers bring a little bit of comedy to this squash.

Seeing Gill & Hardy don the masks for their Executioner gimmick gets me thinking/wishing there had been a Survivor Series dream team at some point compromising Duane Gill & Barry Hardy's Executioners, Buddy Rose's Executioner, and Terry Gordy's Executioner. I guess it'd only make sense if their team captain was The Undertaker?

Other thoughts from the squash of the week include taking notice of Vince calling Earthquake "Quakester" - dafuq? Was he trying to make fetch happen? Or was this a seed of an idea thinking Quake could be the next breakout face star like the Hulkster? Also, as good as Quake was, and as much as I always thought I preferred him, Typhoon (or "Phooney") definitely has the better build between them.

Match of the Week: N/A
Didn't apply this week.

Interview of the Week: WWF Champion Macho Man Randy Savage
By far and away the best of the week. Probably the best since this watch-thru started. Savage plants seeds here that cause me to suddenly buy into the idea that a Savage/Bret world title program at WMIX could've worked.

When discussing the controversial manner in which he won the world title from Flair, Savage talks about knowing how to get dirty when tangling with the Dirtiest Player in the Game. And Savage reserves the right to bend or break the rules if need be in the future. But he also says he can get as scientific as the best in-ring technicians too. It almost felt as if this promo should've been the first step on a path toward a collision with the Excellence of Execution.

Runnerup was Skinner and/or Razor Ramon, doing his best Tony Montana impression in his debut vignette.

Other Random Thoughts:
- Horse puns running wild in the horse capital of the world... Lexington, Kentucky!

- Enhancement talent Greg Brown looks like a lost middle brother between Bray Wyatt and Bo Dallas.

- Vince's pronunciation of mirror (mee-rah) is sooo fucking New England. Sounds like my grandpa on my mom's side.

- Kerry Von Erich's promos are so sad, especially knowing what's coming in real life for him. He talks about rededicating his life and getting back on track to the top. What a waste. He has such a good look, in-ring ability even despite a missing foot, and surely could be great on the mic if in the right frame of mind and with the right material. Such a waste.

- I think Mountie got introduced at his shoot weight of 226 lbs? I could actually buy that as his real weight given his height and build. I wish kayfabe weights and heights were outlawed. Expose those vanilla midgets for what they really are.

- Nailz/Taker should've absolutely happened after Shango/Taker for the Death Sentence pun promos alone.

UT, this ties directly into the era we're reliving!

🤯 was that the Tatanka/Horowitz match where Barry hits a Slop Drop? If so, I remember it being a good 'un. I even allowed myself to believe Horowitz just might pull off the upset of the year to end the undefeated streak  :$  It also marked the first time I can recall seeing a Slop Drop (though it turns out Skinner used the move before Barry). 

*A quick search of Cagematch reveals Tatanka wrestled Horowitz six times on tv from 92-94 + another tag match with them on opposite sides. That's wild.
===================
UT bringing up the post-WM X Raw makes me want to pinpoint exactly when the post-Wrestlemania Raw became a thing...

1998 is the first year I noticed it in real time. It was a huge night for DX with HHH taking over for HBK as leader, X-Pac's return and scathing shoot promo, and the New Age Outlaws joining the group after defeating the Hardcore Legends in a star-studded main event cage match.

Several years later I realized the post-WM 12 Raw was also a pretty big deal. Mankind & Mero made their in ring debuts and the show ended with Mankind attacking Undertaker to kickstart their legendary feud.

But a few years ago I realized we can even take it back a year earlier to 1995 where Sid turned on HBK in a big angle which kicked off HBK's face turn that ultimately lead to him becoming the top guy in the company.  Alundra Blayze also defeated Bull Nakano for the Women's Title only to be attacked by the debuting Bertha Faye. 

So I'm going with 1995 as the first year the post-Wrestlemania Raw became a big thing. 

Jul 24, 2021 3:49:20 GMT Baker said:

🤯 was that the Tatanka/Horowitz match where Barry hits a Slop Drop? If so, I remember it being a good 'un. I even allowed myself to believe Horowitz just might pull off the upset of the year to end the undefeated streak  :$  It also marked the first time I can recall seeing a Slop Drop (though it turns out Skinner used the move before Barry). 

*A quick search of Cagematch reveals Tatanka wrestled Horowitz six times on tv from 92-94 + another tag match with them on opposite sides. That's wild.
===================

Guilty confession time... I forget what a slop drop is. A reverse DDT? If Barry hit one of those, I missed it, but Tatanka/Horowitzs was definitely runnerup for squash of the week and even in consideration for match of the week, so maybe the two just had good chemistry?

^Yep. Reverse DDT is the mark name for Slop Drop.

were the Godwins ever over as good guys?

Jul 24, 2021 18:11:45 GMT Ed said:

were the Godwins ever over as good guys?

Were the Godwinns ever over, period? -_-

It reminds of the long standing rumor of Hunter paying for the curtain call, famously against Godwinn in a hog pen match. Cept this took place months before Shawn even had the belt, so not really.

So did HHH actually get punished? Was prolonging the KOTR one year really it? Imagine if we never got Austin 316 and no mega star push? He might be on a chicken farm himself trying to keep the lights on by paying off the gimmicks.

Jul 24, 2021 21:09:57 GMT @ness said:

It reminds of the long standing rumor of Hunter paying for the curtain call, famously against Godwinn in a hog pen match. Cept this took place months before Shawn even had the belt, so not really.

So did HHH actually get punished? Was prolonging the KOTR one year really it? Imagine if we never got Austin 316 and no mega star push? He might be on a chicken farm himself trying to keep the lights on by paying off the gimmicks.

It's hard to say, he definitely took a backseat to Austin, but:

1. Austin was better than HHH in every conceivable way and should have been moved ahead of HHH

2. Austin was moving past HHH before the curtain call anyway (Wrestlemania 12 is a nice example)

I think it was mostly revisionism just to get 1999 Triple H going as big budget remake of Shane Douglas' The Franchise.

I considered HHH a gigantic flop before DX, Shawn (and Chyna!) kinda saved his career, and this all had nothing to do with the curtain call, it was HHH doing an '80s gimmick in the fucking mid-90s.

Jul 24, 2021 20:18:07 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 24, 2021 18:11:45 GMT Ed said:

were the Godwins ever over as good guys?

Were the Godwinns ever over, period? -_-

I liked them as faces but, they were far better heels.

Jul 24, 2021 20:18:07 GMT 🤯 said:

Were the Godwinns ever over, period? -_-

I remember them being a fairly popular midcard act in 1996. Also thought HOG was pretty over as a singles wrestler in late 1995. But I wanted to get some kind of confirmation. So I did a few quick searches. Found some people saying they were over with younger fans in particular, and came across some scattered reviews where people claimed HOG was "really over" in random matches here and there as a singles competitor.

The way I remember it HOG was pretty over after turning babyface and having natural 'slobs vs. snobs' feuds with Dibiase and Helmsley. HOG slopping bad guys always got a pop. The Godwinns as a team were also fairly popular during the Sunny feud. People popped huge for the big payoff of Sunny being slopped after months of tormenting PIG. Godwinns also got the biggest pop of the night at a DC area house show I went to in November '96 when they 'beat' Owen & Bulldog for the tag titles in a Dusty Finish.

Plus they square danced and brought cute little animals into the ring. What kind of monster is going to hate these guys?

I'll admit there is a chance I could be biased, or even manipulated into thinking the Godwinns were more over than they actually were because...

1. Vince LOVED the Godwinns to the point where I feel like they might have been his 2nd favorite act in the company behind only HBK. It's possible that hearing Vince adopt his carnival barker voice and patented fake laugh every week while going all in on the Godwinns tricked me into thinking they were more over than they really were. Enthusiasm can be contagious, and few were more enthusiastic than Vince as a babyface commentator.

2. So many of my pre-internet opinions regarding what was (Luger!) or wasn't (Bret for....a really long time!) popular is based on the small sample size of wrestling fans I knew in real life. My little clique (Bakerman included!) was into HOG as a face feuding with Dibiase & HHH. We were also into the Godwinns/Sunny feud, even if I was largely off them as a tag team due to not liking PIG. 

3? That theme + Hillbilly Jim=Pavolian pops?

One thing is for certain, face Godwinns > heel Godwinns. The "Uncle Cletus" run and Southern Justice suuuucked. 

Jul 24, 2021 21:09:57 GMT @ness said:

So did HHH actually get punished?

Yeah. No doubt. But it has been exaggerated in WWF lore. The punishment only lasted 4 months. He was left off 4 straight PPVs, including KOTR and Summerslam at a time when the WWF roster was paper thin. He also did a lot of jobs on tv. Even lost televised matches to The Stalker and freaking Freddie Joe Floyd. Then came the Perfect Swerve and he was back to mattering again. Punishment lasted roughly from May/June to Sept/Oct 96.

The HHH/HOG Hog Pen match being part of the punishment is one of the dumbest wrestling rumors of all time. It predates the "punishment" by a good 5 months and HHH even claims to have been a big fan of the idea.
===============
Also, Matt The IRS Fan would hate this thread.

I like to imagine a world where Hillbilly Jim had not been injured, derailing his career. He was fun to watch 1 of my childhood favorites.

More.
*Went storytime crazy. Might end up breaking the Godwinns/storytime stuff off into its own separate thread.

Another reason it sucks that The Network Cock doesn't have 95-96 Superstars episodes up is because the Godwinns were one of the most heavily featured acts on the program. Meaning we could all watch it together to prove once and for all just how over the Godwinns were(n't?) as babyfaces.

And just to "prove" every wrestler is somebody's favorite...

I went to school with this guy Scott. I liked him. Nice guy. Very polite. A gentle giant. But he was more a casual acquaintance than a friend. One day he must have overheard my true friends and I discussing our beloved 1996 WWF because I remember him chiming in with how much he loved The Godwinns. They were his favorite wrestlers! So here's this random dude I barely talked to, and had no idea was a fan of pro wrestling, eavesdropping so he could butt in just to talk about how much he loved the Godwinns. Ya gotta love it.

To be fair, I can see why Scott would be a Godwinns fan. He was a big ol' country boy who played football, lacrosse, and wrestled. Now how a country boy ended up in Baltimore's inner suburbs is beyond me. But that's what happened. He bench pressed an absurd amount of weight and I think ended up getting a football scholarship to a small non-Division 1 school.

LOL Just looked him up. Could neither confirm nor deny the college football thing, but he's still a hoss, only now one with a big bushy beard. His facebook page header is a quote from Conan The Barbarian. Other pics include him lifting weights and just chilling in a horned Viking hat. Nice to see some people never change.
===================
Back to Hunter Hearst Helmsley...

I've also seen people claim the Warrior squash was part of the punishment. Again, this makes me want to pull my hair out. The Warrior match predates the Curtain Call which lead to the punishment by almost two months. 

Younger fans don't seem to understand heels getting humiliated was standard operating procedure in those days. That was pretty much the entire point of their existence, particularly when it came to "annoying" midcard heels like Helmsley. The Model is The Mountie is IRS is Jeff Jarrett is Hunter Hearst Helmsley. And Jerry Lawler is their King. All these guys filled the same role- Get the crowd riled up with a series of dastardly deeds. Then BAM! The big payoff with the babyface going over strong.

Far from being a "punishment" or a "burial," a snob being forced into a degrading Hog Pen Match, or an overconfident big mouth getting squashed by a returning Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania, were as natural as a sunrise to 95-96 me. It was just a little Pro Wrestling 101. And I say this as an actual fan of "Connecticut Blueblood" Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

Was checking 1996 house show results and HHH lost to Marc Mero pretty much every night for like three months after the curtain call, which had to feel like hell itself.

Vince LOVED Mero (and Sable), so would this have happened anyway? Probably? A lot of HHH's so called punishment seems to me to just be what mediocre heels had to do, anyway, although the lack of PPV appearances is unusual.

Jul 23, 2021 17:04:18 GMT 🤯 said:

UT, this ties directly into the era we're reliving!

Well apparently this is the only thing YouTube recommends for me anymore...











Who would be your ideal wrestler Family Feud teams?!?!?

Man instead of elimination tags Survivor Series should just be Family Feud.

That's literally what they called the Harts vs King and his Knights.... Shawn and his knights.