Jul 18, 2021 1:37:55 GMT Baker said:

Meh. I have no problem with Brothers of Destruction as a tag team name. There's been far worse.

Only because you used Siblings of Mayhem in Lawlermania.

Jul 18, 2021 1:48:52 GMT UT said:

Jul 18, 2021 1:37:55 GMT Baker said:

Meh. I have no problem with Brothers of Destruction as a tag team name. There's been far worse.

Only because you used Siblings of Mayhem in Lawlermania.

:rofl:  Ackshully I don't recall Smoke & Spellbinder having a team name....which only means we beat WWF to that part of the storyline. Those damn McMahons were stealing from me long before KING KID became their go to source for ideas.

Jul 18, 2021 1:56:23 GMT Baker said:

Jul 18, 2021 1:48:52 GMT UT said:

Only because you used Siblings of Mayhem in Lawlermania.

 Ackshully I don't recall Smoke & Spellbinder having a team name....which only means we beat WWF to that part of the storyline. Those damn McMahons were stealing from me long before KING KID became their go to source for ideas.

Oh wait. They may have actually been called the Unholy Alliance. I cannot confirm this, but it is possible. And if so, this really would have predated WWF's Unholy Alliance. Meaning there's a chance VINCE HID SPIES IN MY BASEMENT! If only I could find those old notebooks....

Jul 18, 2021 2:01:22 GMT Baker said:

Jul 18, 2021 1:56:23 GMT Baker said:

 Ackshully I don't recall Smoke & Spellbinder having a team name....which only means we beat WWF to that part of the storyline. Those damn McMahons were stealing from me long before KING KID became their go to source for ideas.

Oh wait. They might have actually been called the Unholy Alliance. I cannot confirm this, but it's entirely possible. And if so, this really would have predated WWF's Unholy Alliance. If only I could find those old notebooks.....

That would be crazy. And Unholy Alliance is a far better name for sure.

Jul 18, 2021 0:49:31 GMT UT said:

Also two more back to back teams that would have a highly anticipated dream match. Weird.

Seconded. And I'd be interested in BOD vs. Hansen/Brody over Los Guerreros vs. Eliminators, so even those rankings are working out.

I had BOD as my #48. Hansen & Brody should've made my list, and made it much higher than BOD, but my slapdash research failed me (or rather failed them).

That said, ironic pumping up or not, BOD were legit my favorite pro wrestling entity for a good nine month stretch or so in real time. Probably same could be said for my No Mercy neighborhood best bud Andrew. Our CAW avatars were Havoc & Mayhem, and our most challenging rivals were of course the other purveyors of chaos, the Brothers of Destruction. When we went to the last SmackDown! taping in DC before WrestleMan X-Seve, we illustrated a BOD poster and got on TV. Let me see if I can find it...

Jul 18, 2021 2:39:26 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 18, 2021 0:49:31 GMT UT said:

Also two more back to back teams that would have a highly anticipated dream match. Weird.

Seconded. And I'd be interested in BOD vs. Hansen/Brody over Los Guerreros vs. Eliminators, so even those rankings are working out.

I had BOD as my #48. Hansen & Brody should've made my list, and made it much higher than BOD, but my slapdash research failed me (or rather failed them).

That said, ironic pumping up or not, BOD were legit my favorite pro wrestling entity for a good nine month stretch or so in real time. Probably same could be said for my No Mercy neighborhood best bud Andrew. Our CAW avatars were Havoc & Mayhem, and our most challenging rivals were of course the other purveyors of chaos, the Brothers of Destruction. When we went to the last SmackDown! taping in DC before WrestleMan X-Seve, we illustrated a BOD poster and got on TV. Let me see if I can find it...

Found it!

Jul 18, 2021 2:47:25 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 18, 2021 2:39:26 GMT 🤯 said:

Seconded. And I'd be interested in BOD vs. Hansen/Brody over Los Guerreros vs. Eliminators, so even those rankings are working out.

I had BOD as my #48. Hansen & Brody should've made my list, and made it much higher than BOD, but my slapdash research failed me (or rather failed them).

That said, ironic pumping up or not, BOD were legit my favorite pro wrestling entity for a good nine month stretch or so in real time. Probably same could be said for my No Mercy neighborhood best bud Andrew. Our CAW avatars were Havoc & Mayhem, and our most challenging rivals were of course the other purveyors of chaos, the Brothers of Destruction. When we went to the last SmackDown! taping in DC before WrestleMan X-Seve, we illustrated a BOD poster and got on TV. Let me see if I can find it...

Found it!

That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen! I feel much better about them making the list now.

^Wow. Great stuff 🤯. Very cool 👍

Speaking of Kane, didn't he technically "win" the feud with Taker? I think the last time they feuded was on Smackdown over the belt? Since Kane was the last one to go over, that means he's the winner, right?

I had more thoughts but it's all based their singles career. I never think of them as a tag team really.

It got me thinking about a likely highly acclaimed Rock n Sock connection. Yes just two main eventers thrown together, but with their intermingled history as foes in a "annoying positive guy wins over the one that didn't wanna be there" way it actually felt like the natural progression of the feud rather than a "time waster" like a lot of temporary forced teams end up being. Does the "mania moment" of short lived teams trump longeivity and titles won of so-called tag specialists in who is the greatest tag team? Or were people voting on who has the best team work and chemistry and all that bullshit so in kayfabe they should be the "best". For instance 50 can beat most regular teams, but can't touch 40.

Never mind that's just overcomplicate things.

Jul 17, 2021 23:20:41 GMT Baker said:

I just knew Brody & Hansen were a Shootist  vote and was waiting for him to educate us rubes on them. He came through as expected. TIL they had a tag team name. Like Big Pete I also didn't know they teamed in the States. Perhaps I should have done more research? I'm intrigued by Shoot's scoring system. You'll have to explain it at the end of this countdown.

Brody & Hansen- I did consider them but couldn't pull the trigger. There were just too many acts I wanted to get on my list. A lot (but not all!) of the 'before my time' teams ended up getting cut. I have long known they were a big draw in Japan as a pair of wild and woolly brawling gaijin hosses. But I've only seen something like 3 of their matches.

Credit wikipedia for the tag team name which I butchered the English translation (Animal Combination) to UT when I sent my list. Also I really should give credit to Andre The Giant who got over in Japan as a monster about a decade before Brody and Hansen. Still though, to see two guys that size demolishing everyone was a game changer in the Japanese eyes.

Also I think I explained my criteria in the pre list discussion thread.

BoD, lol, Undertaker and Kane are singles stars first and foremost and had no real continuity as a team when it comes to tenure. I actually have a few teams that were both huge singles stars in their own right (see Brody/Hansen) but they teamed for way longer and made a much bigger impact on the business. I actually like the Brothers Of Destruction name though.

That's awesome 🤯 and well done on getting immortalised in the Attitude Era.

I wonder how many PWers have featured on television? I know Rogue and iron maiden pop up during Shawn Michaels' retirement ceremony.

Brothers of Destruction certainly have the profile. The Undertaker is one of the bigger stars to come out of Pro Wrestling and Kane is a WWE legend. I thought they did a decent job of synergising and that Breakfast Club post-match celebration was sweet. However their run together was very short lived and came at a time when business was on the down-swing. They didn't have any memorable feuds and their more known for their stinkers than quality wrestling matches.

Why are BOD being blamed for Kronik being utter shit?

🤨

Jul 18, 2021 10:14:52 GMT 🤯 said:

Why are BOD being blamed for Kronik being utter shit?

🤨

Kronik were never THAT bad until they stepped foot in the ring with BOD.

But I think it says more about their other matches that hardly anyone ever talks about them.

Jul 18, 2021 10:14:52 GMT 🤯 said:

Why are BOD being blamed for Kronik being utter shit?

🤨

They were in his yard.

MNM are good and I'm fine with them making the list around. Rarely had a bad match that I can remember off the top of my head and they played their gimmick really well and were effective as hell being heels. Melina added a perfect touch and I love looking back that she just wasn't a random manager - she was truly part of a trio and even present in their name. Something special you didn't see a ton of with a manager.

Their biggest downfall for me was the era they were hot in , there wasn't a TON to work with outside of Londrick and a Hardy's reunion and they definitely made the best of it all. Kind of sad their biggest claim to fame will probably forever be Mercury getting his face mangled by a ladder - but hey that probably helped them get their pretty boy image over and turned them into legit threats.


Always found it kind of funny that Nitro/Morrison was instantly pegged as the Michaels of this group - never was a huge fan of him as singles and never seen that kind of trajectory for him. They tried but it wasn't totally meant to be. He's much better as part of a tag whether it's with Mercury or another team that may or may not pop up on the list.

MNM were highly praised upon debut and I feel like a lot of that is simply them being a real tag team. Seemed like around this time most of the division was merely singles guys thrown together. And they had such high hopes for Nitro. Shame he was never able to become the star they saw him as. Nobody with that hair should be anything less than the guy.

I remember watching this live: 



Poor dude got fucked up!




Should also be noted they had a pretty sick entrance , mainly courtesy of Melina. 

One of those hindsight spots where you just scratch your head wondering what were they thinking?

And yeah the entrance. They were great for a time, but seemed like a very elaborate vehicle to get Melina over.

MNM were one of the best tag teams of their generation. They had everything you'd want from a tag team, the personality, the in-ring ability, the look etc. but they just couldn't wait to break the tag team up before they had really found their groove. If they had have stayed together for another 3 years, not only would Nitro be ready for a proper run but you could have run so many programs with them as one of the feature acts of either RAW or SmackDown.

In the end they were a good team and their series with the Hardy Boyz was among some of the best tag team work in Pro Wrestling but it was just so short-lived. Even in Nitro's career the group has been over-shadowed by another tag team which for mine is something of a waste. Morrison has been putting in some phenomenal performances and his recent series of matches with Ricochet have been one of the highlights of modern wrestling.

Well, WWE tried with an actual tag team but it was during the dead era and the competition was a little thin. Never a thought for my list.

46. MNM- PW nailed this one. Good job.

I think there is some truth to what @ness wrote. Half the appeal of MNM was arriving from a well-received OVW run (which I haven't seen) as a proper, fully functioning tag team. They had fancy matching outfits, a team name, a manager, a custom entrance, and even some semblance of a gimmick, though WWE never did much with it. All this made them a breath of fresh air and the best new tag team WWE had seen since WGTT debuted over 2 years earlier. Didn't MNM win the tag titles in their debut? It was either their debut or 2nd televised match at any rate. That would normally be a major turnoff, but I wasn't even mad just because I was happy to finally see a cool new tag team. 

Mercury solidified himself as the perfectly cromulent Tom Zenk of his generation while Nitro brought the flash and fabulous hair. Not so much during the MNM run, but I'll confess to being one of those "Next Shawn Michaels!" yahoos once he changed his name to John Morrison and feuded with CM Punk. Thought he and MVP were the future of the company. He ended up topping out more as "poor man's RVD," but that's not the worst thing in the world to be.

MNM delivered in the ring with good/great series against the Hardys, Rey & Batista, Holly & Haas, and probably London & Kendrick too + a memorable encounter with Eddie & Rey. Their most famous match is unfortunately the one where Mercury's face got exploded.

Like most post 2002 WWE teams they were hurt by the booking and WWE's general lack of interest in tag teams. Once they decided on a "Michaels" it was curtains for the team and more often than not a failed push for the designated HBK while the "Marty" was inevitably lost in the shuffle before being future endeavored. Yet maybe debuting when they did worked out well for them in terms of this Countdown since they stood out all the more in a down era for tag teams rather than potentially be lost in the shuffle during a stronger era. Regardless, it's still a shame WWE didn't keep them together longer. They had the skills to finish even higher on our list. Lack of longevity hurt them, but the fanboy in me had to sneak them on near the bottom of my list. 

Jul 18, 2021 3:15:44 GMT @ness said:

It got me thinking about a likely highly acclaimed Rock n Sock connection. Yes just two main eventers thrown together, but with their intermingled history as foes in a "annoying positive guy wins over the one that didn't wanna be there" way it actually felt like the natural progression of the feud rather than a "time waster" like a lot of temporary forced teams end up being. Does the "mania moment" of short lived teams trump longeivity and titles won of so-called tag specialists in who is the greatest tag team? Or were people voting on who has the best team work and chemistry and all that bullshit so in kayfabe they should be the "best". For instance 50 can beat most regular teams, but can't touch 40.

Meh. I'll save my Rock & Sock rant for when they inevitably show up. 

I didn't go all STATS like Shootist but my criteria in terms of importance went roughly....

1. Kayfabe Success

2. Overness/Influence/Legacy/Drawing Power- Examples: My #1 would not have been my #1 if I hadn't constantly been told they were the #1 tag team of all time for the past quarter century. Another team made my Top 20 largely because they've been romanticized to an absurd degree. Not sure they make my list at all without the hype. Some tag teams before my time still get brought up today. Others were just as successful in kayfabe but are rarely if ever mentioned nowadays. Those in the latter group failed to crack my list with one exception. 

3. Longevity- I probably value this more than most people. Think only one team on my list was together for less than a year. It's one of the teams I mentioned above. I'm also a stickler for "real" teams. Only had one “super team” near the bottom of my list and even then they together for a pretty long time. 

4. Actually Being Good and Entertaining- Did they have good matches/promos/gimmick/etc.?

5. Good Old Fashioned Favoritism

Oh, and Brothers of Destruction is a better team name than MNM. BoD is cool and badass. I stand my earlier statement praising MNM just for having a team name. But I never said it was a GOOD team name. Stealing your team name from a candy (or rapper) is no great shakes.

Jul 19, 2021 1:19:43 GMT Baker said:

Oh, and Brothers of Destruction is a better team name than MNM. BoD is cool and badass. I stand my earlier statement praising MNM just for having a team name. But I never said it was a GOOD team name. Stealing your team name from a candy (or rapper) is no great shakes.

It’s there initials!

BoD should have went by KT. It would also serve as memorium to Katie Vick.

The Jumping Bomb Angels are an interesting case where they were far from the most successful tag team in All Japan Women's Wrestling but they somehow managed to get themselves booked in the WWF and basically became ambassadors for that company. They were tremendous high fliers and extremely talented considering their age.

However that was the high point of the team and after putting over the Crush Gals and The Glamour Girls they were finished as a team. Still to get a run in peak WWF was a credit so I don't have an issue with them getting here.

They may also have the best tag name of anyone, racism be damned.

Jul 19, 2021 15:55:16 GMT Big Pete said:

The Jumping Bomb Angels are an interesting case where they were far from the most successful tag team in All Japan Women's Wrestling but they somehow managed to get themselves booked in the WWF and basically became ambassadors for that company. They were tremendous high fliers and extremely talented considering their age.

However that was the high point of the team and after putting over the Crush Gals and The Glamour Girls they were finished as a team. Still to get a run in peak WWF was a credit so I don't have an issue with them getting here.

They may also have the best tag name of anyone, racism be damned.

What's racist about Jumping Bomb Angels? Now I feel like an ignorant racist for not realizing any inherent racism. It's always been one of my favorite team names.

I had the JBAs at #9 largely on the incredible feat of getting the WWF bookings and strength of their influence.

IMO a lot of what women's wrestling today is, and honestly even the NXT/Young Bucks style of wrestling, is seeded in the JBAs and their exposure to main stream American audiences thanks to the WWF bookings.

The moves and style they were busting out in the 80s is still mind-blowing to a degree watching it today. I cannot imagine seeing it for the first time in real time. Sure, Dynamite/Tiger Mask had already done their thing... But never on the same stages.

What's racist about Jumping Bomb Angels?

I'm just jumping at shadows. I'd just imagine you'd have to be careful associating anything Japanese with a bomb.

Although in my mind, I'd like to think they were just huge fans of the Runaways who were big in Japan.

Sure, Dynamite/Tiger Mask had already done their thing... But never on the same stages.

At least not as consistently, Dynamite and Tiger did get to wrestle at Madison Square Garden and Vince Jr. was supposedly a huge Dynamite fan

I tried to squeeze in a female team on my list but it was hard to justify bumping any of the names that made my top 50 for them. Joshi is another weak spot for me, so I am relived that at least one of those teams got on the list.

Jul 19, 2021 2:13:14 GMT UT said:

Jul 19, 2021 1:19:43 GMT Baker said:

Oh, and Brothers of Destruction is a better team name than MNM. BoD is cool and badass. I stand my earlier statement praising MNM just for having a team name. But I never said it was a GOOD team name. Stealing your team name from a candy (or rapper) is no great shakes.

It’s there initials!

I know that, ya silly goose. This isn't a repeat of me taking an embarrassing long time to realize Henry O. Godwinn's initials spelled out HOG. Still doesn't make it good though. People are always going to think of the candy or the rapper first. 

Jumping Bomb Angels- Have to admit I never would have considered them if not for 🤯. And even then that consideration only lasted like 2 seconds. Probably should have given them a third second because it turns out their WWF run lasted 3x longer than I thought....even if it was mostly on house shows.

Were an innovative team (particularly for 1987 WWF) who had good matches with the Glamour Girls. Got over with the fans. Also won the top tag titles in their original promotion, AJW. But they didn't have enough meat on their resume for me to seriously consider them.

One Joshi team did make my list. Upper half, too.

JBA I don't have any real opinions on as I mostly paid no attention to them. I do get it though.