Jul 19, 2021 23:11:34 GMT Baker said:

Jul 19, 2021 2:13:14 GMT UT said:

It’s there initials!

I know that, ya silly goose. This isn't a repeat of me taking an embarrassing long time to realize Henry O. Godwinn's initials spelled out HOG. Still doesn't make it good though. People are always going to think of the candy or the rapper first. 

Jumping Bomb Angels- Have to admit I never would have considered them if not for 🤯. And even then that consideration only lasted like 2 seconds. Probably should have given them a third second because it turns out their WWF run lasted 3x longer than I thought....even if it was mostly on house shows.

Were an innovative team (particularly for 1987 WWF) who had good matches with the Glamour Girls. Got over with the fans. Also won the top tag titles in their original promotion, AJW. But they didn't have enough meat on their resume for me to seriously consider them.

One Joshi team did make my list. Upper half, too.

Did you find out the same day that Phineas I. Godwin was for PIG?

HOG & PIG

The Fantastics are definitely a team I need to check out more of , I've heard plenty about them but haven't seen a ton from them because I generally don't go out of my way to throw on old NWA matches unless motivated. This was the motivation I needed , now I just have to put Superstars rewatching on hiatus and check out a few of their top rated matches.

I'll say this - they seem like the first team between titles , longevity and match ratings that seem to truly and unabashedly belong on the list. I look forward to others elaborating a bit more.

I was away so I'm behind.

My dad is shaking his head at me for forgetting Bruiser Brody & Stan Hansen.

33. Brothers of Destruction

I tried very hard not to put Tag teams that were singles wrestlers pushed together, but some of them you just can't help it. BoD was one. I mean it just made good sense and they were awesome together.

29. MNM

I loved MNM. I love me a great mixed tag match and they were able to do that. Melina was a great valet and could actually wrestle too . Also, Joey Mercury and Johnny Nitro were gold in ring. I was worried I might be one of the few who listed them, but I needn't have worried.

11. The Jumping Bomb Angels

I tried to name a couple of female Tag Teams (I forgot one and am kicking my ass right now) and though they are few and far between in mainstream rasslin', you couldn't have a list like this without the JBA.


I know Baker was worried I wouldn't have them, but have no fear my memory is bad but I wouldn't forget them.  However, it must be acting up because I don't remember The Fantastics.  

Jul 20, 2021 0:15:45 GMT UT said:

Did you find out the same day that Phineas I. Godwin was for PIG?

More or less. I picked up on PIG right away. Think it was then that I finally realized Henry O. Godwinn stood for HOG and felt a right proper fool.

28. Fantastics- One of the better pretty boy babyface teams when that trope was all the rage in the 80s. Had runs in Mid South and World Class feuding with the Eaton/Condrey Midnight Express. Then it was back to Watts country in what was now called UWF for a memorable blood feud with those wild and woolly brawlers from New Zealand, the Sheepherders. Putting pretty boys in blood feuds with ugly brawlers was a common booking technique at the time to get the pretty boys over as "tough guys" with the more discerning older male fans. It worked. Meltzer famously rated a Fans/Sheep Crockett Cup match at *****. Then it was on to NWA for their most famous run. They had the Wrestling Observer 1988 feud of the year with the Eaton/Lane Midnight Express. Those two teams had no fewer than 4 good/great matches together. UT that's where you should start if you're interested in checking out the Fantastics. Then it was on to Japan where they carved out a nice niche for themselves as staples of the AJPW midcard from 89-96.

Fun Fact: The Fantastics used ZZ Top's Sharp Dressed Man as their theme. This lead to the Fans becoming real life friends with the bearded band of wrestling fans who lived in Mid South country.

The Fantastics were good in the ring as athletic babyfaces who were adept at flying, wrestling, and brawling. They were also over with crowds. There was even a movement about 15 years ago to declare Fantastics > Rock & Roll Express and Tommy Rogers > Ricky Morton. Didn't last long and the pendulum has now swung back. But still! Their feud with the Midnight Express still holds up as a classic. That + the Sheepherders feud to a lesser extent is what got them on my list. And now for the...

Negatives- Even during their prime they were hurt by being considered a poor man's Rock & Roll Express. Even Jim Cornette, who considers Fantastic Bobby Fulton one of his oldest and closest friends in the wrestling business, admits this. The Fantastics were over wherever they went. It's just that, aside from World Class, they always came in after the Rock & Rolls, and never got quite as over as Ricky & Robert. They're also hurt by never having a run in the big time WWF. Even their famous run in WCW/NWA only lasted about a year. They were also an extremely '80s' act who didn't translate well to the 90s....at least not in the US. I remember thinking they were dated when they would occasionally show up in mid 90s WCW, and extremely dated when they wrestled each other that one time on Raw in 1997, or when Tommy Rogers stuck out like a sore thumb in ECW. I also didn't give a hoot about them as a kid, thinking they were interchangeable with the Rock & Roll Express and half a dozen other teams. Definitely never bothered to learn which one was Tommy and which one was Bobby. 

38. The Fantastics (Tommy Rogers and Bobby Fulton)- 98.10 points

Glad these guys made the list, maybe we are on the road to not calling them underrated anymore. I first saw them in Crockett back in 1988 and they were just so fun to watch. They had incredible synchronicity, a few steps ahead of the Rock N' Roll Express and pretty much on par with the Rockers when it came to in ring work. I later saw them in 1994-95 WCW and they were still having great matches on WCW Saturday Night with the likes of Harlem Heat and Pretty Wonderful, a big plus in the longevity department. A few years later I got NWA tapes and got to see more of their higher profile matches with The Midnight Express, their GAB '88 match is a must watch. They also had a heralded run in the UWF where they had great feuds with The Sheepherders and Hot Stuff/Hyatt International.

Their consistent performances in ring covering a decade plus and never breaking up in that time helped their cause. Their only mark against them were they were a bit derivative of more trailblazing babyface teams like The High Flyers, The Fabulous Ones and The R n'R Express and were more on that smaller stage so that hurt their legacy and impact a bit. Nice to see them get recognition on the list, they should be on every tag team enthusiasts list.

I love WGTT and always thought they were great. The overall presentation of them from Team Angle on was perfect and I loved the name. Simplistic yet brash and it worked for me - why was that never a name before?

I thought they could really go in the ring as well and showed it off whenever they got the chance and even later in ROH where I actually checked out some of their run and matches. It's a shame that the WWE was such a shit show at this time (again) for the tag teams because in most era's , EVEN in the old days I think the WGTT could have absolutely flourished and been all time greats. Ten fold because they would have had a manager to do their talking which was their biggest weak spot. Imagine Jimmy Hart managing WGTT against teams that are yet to come on this list like The Bulldogs or Hart Foundation. It would have been incredible.

I understand why they broke them up. Shelton looked like a star in the making but he just couldn't break through as a personality on the mic. I still loved him though.

I always thought Haas was incredibly underrated as the perceived Jannetty of the two and unlike Shelton I think he showed a little bit of underlying charisma as a singles star. He was never going to be world champion but to be a guy that excelled in the mid card and JTTS he would have been great - especially in other eras.

The era screwed them more than anything but at least they still land on the list. Their resume could be stronger but their ability I think plays a huge part here.

Despite not being a part of the SD!6 and sorts technically coming onto the scene of the SD!6's heels, WGTT is who I think best represents SmackDown!'s late 2002 to early 2004 great tag division. They lasted the longest as a team, evolved their gimmick, feels like they had the longest tag title reign, etc. Then reunited for another run in WWE later before popping up in ROH to get those longevity points.

I agree it sucks they tried to break WGTT up too soon (similar to MNM after them), and it also sucks how underappreciated and underoushed Haas was considering his talent and skill. I get why they experimented with Shelton, but they should've let him test out his singles shine while still a part of WGTT. No reason he couldn't have had his epic singles matches against HHH and HBK with Haas rooting him on from his corner.

Definitely agree with UT on the manager idea. That's why Kurt was great. Then I feel like Heyman should've remained more of a thing for them. And they would've absolutely been right at home in the WWF's Golden Era or even in the rough years against the likes of the Gunns, Bodydonnas, Owen & Bulldog, and Furnas & LaFon.

I'm saying it.

The most overrated team of all time.

Nothing they did ever got anything out of me. Didn't seem like they had anything outside the lame leapfrog and much like Swagger doing "we the people" it felt like it was literally the only time they'd get a reaction.

Lame.

WGTT was a glaring omission on my list. Highly enjoyable and a great pairing with Angle and his character. I don't remember ever disliking any of their matches, but I also don't remember any sticking out in my mind. In ring they were technically sound and often exciting to watch, but they needed Angle as their mouthpiece and needed each other as neither of them had the personality needed to be more than middle card. Benjamin was the clear breakout star of the team but his lack of personality really hurt him.

Jul 21, 2021 21:22:30 GMT iron maiden said:

WGTT was a glaring omission on my list. Highly enjoyable and a great pairing with Angle and his character. I don't remember ever disliking any of their matches, but I also don't remember any sticking out in my mind. In ring they were technically sound and often exciting to watch, but they needed Angle as their mouthpiece and needed each other as neither of them had the personality needed to be more than middle card. Benjamin was the clear breakout star of the team but his lack of personality really hurt him.

WGTT vs. Mysterio & Kidman @ Vengeance 2003 is my recommendation for one to check out.

Jul 21, 2021 21:35:30 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 21, 2021 21:22:30 GMT iron maiden said:

WGTT was a glaring omission on my list. Highly enjoyable and a great pairing with Angle and his character. I don't remember ever disliking any of their matches, but I also don't remember any sticking out in my mind. In ring they were technically sound and often exciting to watch, but they needed Angle as their mouthpiece and needed each other as neither of them had the personality needed to be more than middle card. Benjamin was the clear breakout star of the team but his lack of personality really hurt him.

WGTT vs. Mysterio & Kidman @ Vengeance 2003 is my recommendation for one to check out.

For a first Smackdown exclusive PPV, it was pretty good. That or I remember it being.

Jul 21, 2021 21:39:16 GMT @ness said:

Jul 21, 2021 21:35:30 GMT 🤯 said:

WGTT vs. Mysterio & Kidman @ Vengeance 2003 is my recommendation for one to check out.

For a first Smackdown exclusive PPV, it was pretty good. That or I remember it being.

Same. It KILLED Raw's terrible Badd Blood.

Ooh that does sound like a good one.

So here's an IM fun fact. I have been watching rasslin since I was 4, but for whatever reason unless I have watched a match more than a handful of times my memory suppresses it. I'm sure I have seen the one you suggested, but it'll be like watching it for the first time. Sometimes, I remember certain details like I'll know who won or a certain spot, but I rarely remember anything past that. It's annoying and why I am not very active in any kind of match or history talk usually. I can remember it after seeing it, but within a week/month POOF!  I can talk in general terms, but when I have to get specific, it requires me to do some homework. 

Happens with TV shows, movies and books too. It's just my memory. It's why I re-watch or re-read things I like a few times so I remember. Might be why I obsess over something for a few months otherwise POOF!

Jul 21, 2021 21:50:13 GMT iron maiden said:

Ooh that does sound like a good one.

So here's an IM fun fact. I have been watching rasslin since I was 4, but for whatever reason unless I have watched a match more than a handful of times my memory suppresses it. I'm sure I have seen the one you suggested, but it'll be like watching it for the first time. Sometimes, I remember certain details like I'll know who won or a certain spot, but I rarely remember anything past that. It's annoying and why I am not very active in any kind of match or history talk usually. I can remember it after seeing it, but within a week/month POOF!  I can talk in general terms, but when I have to get specific, it requires me to do some homework. 

Happens with TV shows, movies and books too. It's just my memory. It's why I re-watch or re-read things I like a few times so I remember. Might be why I obsess over something for a few months otherwise POOF!

I recall you mentioning this on pduh's Let's Talk Podcast and vaguely recall you discussing this with my nephew iNCY in some thread too, I think.

I can't tell if this would be more frustrating or low key cool in that everything would feel so new no matter what number rewatch you're on.

Jul 21, 2021 21:41:02 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 21, 2021 21:39:16 GMT @ness said:

For a first Smackdown exclusive PPV, it was pretty good. That or I remember it being.

Same. It KILLED Raw's terrible Badd Blood.

I was so confused going on WWE.com and not seeing any Smackdown matches announced. I dunno if I was fully paying attention or if they didn't stress it was the first brand only PPV, but I was checking thinking... any minute now.

Jul 21, 2021 21:50:13 GMT iron maiden said:

Ooh that does sound like a good one.

So here's an IM fun fact. I have been watching rasslin since I was 4, but for whatever reason unless I have watched a match more than a handful of times my memory suppresses it. I'm sure I have seen the one you suggested, but it'll be like watching it for the first time. Sometimes, I remember certain details like I'll know who won or a certain spot, but I rarely remember anything past that. It's annoying and why I am not very active in any kind of match or history talk usually. I can remember it after seeing it, but within a week/month POOF!  I can talk in general terms, but when I have to get specific, it requires me to do some homework. 

Happens with TV shows, movies and books too. It's just my memory. It's why I re-watch or re-read things I like a few times so I remember. Might be why I obsess over something for a few months otherwise POOF!

I’m the same , I marvel at some of the guys recollections in these threads. I can remember moments or what I was doing during certain matches of the AE or the iconic moments but I forget a bunch. Rewatching the 92-93-94 stuff now is like watching for the first time even though I watched religiously growing up.

I’m the opposite with movies and TV though. That shit usually is permanently etched in my brain.

I have no real memories of matches beyond a spot or two. Maybe know the winner. Yet I have all these random wrestling memories in my head where I can recall dates and title runs and ppv show names for. Like if you asked me to rate a match or whatever or name a match that is "bad/good/great" or whatever scale I could do it just fine but I couldn't tell you... why.

Jul 21, 2021 23:49:25 GMT @ness said:

I have no real memories of matches beyond a spot or two. Maybe know the winner. Yet I have all these random wrestling memories in my head where I can recall dates and title runs and ppv show names for. Like if you asked me to rate a match or whatever or name a match that is "bad/good/great" or whatever scale I could do it just fine but I couldn't tell you... why.

Pop quiz, hot shot: What was the first PPV where Stone Cold wrestled HHH?

Remembering obscure wrestling stuff from the 20th Century is my superpower. I'd have a tough time telling you what I did 3 days ago, but I can give you every single detail of the day Papa Shango lit that jobber's boots on fire. Or, as Big Pete once mentioned, everything down to what I ate for breakfast the day I watched some random episode of Conan The Adventurer  

45. WGTT- It's uncanny how similar they are to MNM. I could probably just copy paste that writeup and change a few names as needed. But for the sake of brevity...

Half the appeal of WGTT was arriving as a proper, fully formed tag team. They had fancy matching outfits and a team name. Pairing them with Angle & Heyman gave them instant credibility. Their amateur credentials also helped on that front. They were the best new tag team WWF had seen since....the Dudleys, probably. I was Day One on Team Angle. No idea how long, or how many times they actually won the SD Tag Titles, but like 🤯 I consider them the definitive Tag Champs from that era of Smackdown. They're also neck and neck with AMW for my 2003 Tag Team of the Year. I even ran a fanfic draft angle on this! 

Benjamin was the clear breakout star and Haas the perfectly cromulent Jannetty who contributed with his cool Haas of Pain submission finisher. They delivered in the ring with a slew of good matches against the Smackdown babyface squad. I actually do agree with iron maiden here though. They had a lot of good matches, but I too have trouble picking out that one definitive great WGTT match. Maybe because I haven't see the Rey/Kidman match? Think that was the only WWE PPV I skipped in 2003. Figures it would turn out to be the best one. Next Match Review? Maybe once I finish my PWF kick. 

Like most post 2002 WWE teams they were hurt by WWE's general lack of interest in tag teams. WWE decided on Shelton as the "Michaels" and broke up the team far too early for a Benjamin push that never did reach the next level. They had a little comeback in 2007 but didn't do much of note. Then it was on to a poorly received run in early 2010s ROH which I haven't seen at all. Meaning the memories are left alone. They'll always be that cool 2003 Smackdown team to me.

Agree with UT in that they would have succeeded in any era and love the idea of them mixing it up with teams from the glory days of WWF's tag division. Disagree with @ness being a hater, but I can appreciate such a bold hot take.

Oh, and I used the WGTT theme in one of the old Smackdown video games for my #1 CAW, "Countdown" Claude Vanity. I'm also still bummed out over stupid WWE wasting the APA on the boring Bashams when I went to No Mercy 2003 when the Bakertastic WGTT/APA money match was right there.

Jul 22, 2021 0:10:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Goddammit, Baker -man, YOUR super powers aren't in question here. Newsman @ness 's are!

D'oh. My bad. Will use my mod powers to DELETE. DELETE. DELETE. 

Jul 22, 2021 0:02:51 GMT 🤯 said:

Jul 21, 2021 23:49:25 GMT @ness said:

I have no real memories of matches beyond a spot or two. Maybe know the winner. Yet I have all these random wrestling memories in my head where I can recall dates and title runs and ppv show names for. Like if you asked me to rate a match or whatever or name a match that is "bad/good/great" or whatever scale I could do it just fine but I couldn't tell you... why.

Pop quiz, hot shot: What was the first PPV where Stone Cold wrestled HHH?

Thanks to the hint I got from someone else AND cheating it's IYH Buried Alive?

Also before I read the other posts for some reason I was thinking No Mercy 99 like a trick ass mark I remembered he probably fought them in 97 or something. New Gen into 96 is a weak spot for me since I didn't grow up seeing that part live as an active fan.

Not to say I'm some expert on all thing rasslin knowledge, but I have way more WWE data in my brain that someone reasonably should.

Do you ever instead of counting sheep, count up from the person who was WWE champ when you got into wrestling and see how far you can get?

Just me.

Jul 22, 2021 0:20:46 GMT @ness said:

Jul 22, 2021 0:02:51 GMT 🤯 said:

Pop quiz, hot shot: What was the first PPV where Stone Cold wrestled HHH?

Do you ever instead of counting sheep, count up from the person who was WWE champ when you got into wrestling and see how far you can get?

Just me.

Pfft. That's the rube's way. TRU smarks go all the way back to Buddy Rogers. 

I try to recount all the hardcore title switches from when the 24/7 Rule was introduced onward.

I had WGTT considered for the top 50 but beyond being good in the ring and their longevity pretty much every other category they fell off a cliff. Plus that's a terrible name, can you be anymore unoriginal? It makes me long for the Expresses and Connections of old. Number 56 on my big list, getting beyond the name and not really having a huge impact they were one of the best teams to watch in the early 2000's .

I voted for Patterson and Stevens , mainly due to what I've read and heard about them across articles and podcasts or documentaries. I've tried to hunt down some of their matches but it's not always easy to find the right ones that stand out and I couldn't find a listing of their definitive greatest to post on there - so if someone more knowledgable about Patterson and Stevens could help it out? I'd appreciate it.

Crazy to think that Patterson , the guy who I first really knew as a lackey was once one of the greats in wrestling and everything I've heard about Stevens says he is one of the best workers of all time and the two were magical together both inside and outside the ring. Wish they could maybe get a proper doc or snippet of something but as it goes.

Personally I prefer Patterson's tag team with Gerald Brisco, but that's only because it's the one I'm more familiar with.

I was aware of Patterson & Stevens as a team, and briefly considered them, but I think my research let me down. In hindsight, they should've nabbed a spot on my list.

Did Patterson & Stevens ever wrestle Jack & Jerry Brisco? Talk about a pre-Stooge dream match for me!

12. The Blond Bombers (Ray Stevens & Pat Patterson)

You can't have a list of Greatest Tag Teams and not have Stevens & Patterson on it. Though I haven't seen a lot of their matches from their 'heyday', they were one of my dad's favorite. They held the AWA Tag Team Championship for over a year and have been described by some as one of the greatest Tag Teams of all time.

Jul 22, 2021 14:50:34 GMT 🤯 said:

Did Patterson & Stevens ever wrestle Jack & Jerry Brisco? Talk about a pre-Stooge dream match for me!

Here you go 🤯:

www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=konst&letter1=P&wrestler1=5581&letter2=G&wrestler2=1692&letter3=&wrestler3=0&letter4=&wrestler4=0&matchtyp=0&anzeige=matches

33. The Blonde Bombers (Pat Patterson and Ray Stevens)- 107.50 points

A nice surprise to see these guys on the list. I also have seen maybe 1 match but by all accounts they were one of the best working teams of their era. Plus they were the top drawing team in the San Francisco area for several years and filling the Cow Palace, one of the larger venues for wrestling in the country, was no small feat. They also had a near 20 year connection as a team so another plus for them. A natural lack of footage though being from an older generation held them back a bit as more newer fans would have a tough time rating them.

Jul 22, 2021 19:15:36 GMT Shootist said:

Jul 22, 2021 14:50:34 GMT 🤯 said:

Did Patterson & Stevens ever wrestle Jack & Jerry Brisco? Talk about a pre-Stooge dream match for me!

Here you go 🤯:

www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=konst&letter1=P&wrestler1=5581&letter2=G&wrestler2=1692&letter3=&wrestler3=0&letter4=&wrestler4=0&matchtyp=0&anzeige=matches

33. The Blonde Bombers (Pat Patterson and Ray Stevens)- 107.50 points

A nice surprise to see these guys on the list. I also have seen maybe 1 match but by all accounts they were one of the best working teams of their era. Plus they were the top drawing team in the San Francisco area for several years and filling the Cow Palace, one of the larger venues for wrestling in the country, was no small feat. They also had a near 20 year connection as a team so another plus for them. A natural lack of footage though being from an older generation held them back a bit as more newer fans would have a tough time rating them.

I use something similar at cagematch and they have a bunch of matches listed but unlike 99% of their teams - they don’t have ratings next to the matches.

Jul 22, 2021 19:46:09 GMT UT said:

Jul 22, 2021 19:15:36 GMT Shootist said:

Here you go 🤯 :

www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=konst&letter1=P&wrestler1=5581&letter2=G&wrestler2=1692&letter3=&wrestler3=0&letter4=&wrestler4=0&matchtyp=0&anzeige=matches

33. The Blonde Bombers (Pat Patterson and Ray Stevens)- 107.50 points

A nice surprise to see these guys on the list. I also have seen maybe 1 match but by all accounts they were one of the best working teams of their era. Plus they were the top drawing team in the San Francisco area for several years and filling the Cow Palace, one of the larger venues for wrestling in the country, was no small feat. They also had a near 20 year connection as a team so another plus for them. A natural lack of footage though being from an older generation held them back a bit as more newer fans would have a tough time rating them.

I use something similar at cagematch and they have a bunch of matches listed but unlike 99% of their teams - they don’t have ratings next to the matches.

Well, they didn't have nutty smarks needing to use star ratings for matches back then. Crazy Dave has gone off the rails with those and it has become more like his gimmick now. He's less a journalist and more portraying a character like the people he reports on. Admittedly when I first started reviewing matches on here I used it as well but once the 6 and 7 star matches became the new norm I abandoned it completely. Plus a really good LOD or Vader squash is worth 5 stars in my book while it would be a dud in his. It's a completely skewed and screwed up system.

rant over