New doc is out on HBOMax and it’s excellent.

That show was insane , I’m glad 13 year old UT wasn’t 18 year old UT at that time or I probably would have been there and definitely could have died.

Jul 25, 2021 17:25:35 GMT UT said:

New doc is out on HBOMax and it’s excellent.

That show was insane , I’m glad 13 year old UT wasn’t 18 year old UT at that time or I probably would have been there and definitely could have died.

I watched it too.  All I remembered when I was 15 at that time, was the fires at end of the festival.  But man, that whole weekend was total chaos.

Jul 25, 2021 17:25:35 GMT UT said:

New doc is out on HBOMax and it’s excellent.

That show was insane , I’m glad 13 year old UT wasn’t 18 year old UT at that time or I probably would have been there and definitely could have died.

The golden rule: if UT recommends a doc you've got to watch.

See you on the otherside Pdubya.

Jul 25, 2021 17:29:19 GMT CM Punk'd said:

Jul 25, 2021 17:25:35 GMT UT said:

New doc is out on HBOMax and it’s excellent.

That show was insane , I’m glad 13 year old UT wasn’t 18 year old UT at that time or I probably would have been there and definitely could have died.

I watched it too.  All I remembered when I was 15 at that time, was the fires at end of the festival.  But man, that whole weekend was total chaos.

It makes Fyre Festival look like Coachella.

1999 is a fascinating time in general for culture , which the doc touches on as well and showed maybe why it culminated in this.

I remember the reports and that it was insane but the doc shines even more light.

I mean, what could go wrong right? Listen to the little promo Durst cuts during the song. 

They cover Durst too and also play devils advocate. That was the least of the problems and a bit overblown in the grand scheme of things.

Everyone knew this show would be a problem. My friend went to jump the gate and I passed as we were hearing the prices would be insane inside and we did not want to have to jump the gate multiple times. My friends jumped then left after Chemical Brothers played that night as they said it was an absolute shit show inside and people were just miserable.

Watching this now, hilarious to see the people who set this up them not realize that there was a massive cultural shift between alt-grunge culture and nu-metal culture. Grunge was about having fun and smoking a lot of weed, but by 99 straight edge or beer and violence started to take center stage at shows.  Also this was in NJ during the rise of the Jersey Shore thing, at the peak of 2nd wave straight edge of hardcore in NY, ect.  Who they think would be coming to this show?

Some of the shit they are focusing on seems weird. The mile between stages is a 15 minute walk, and done to prevent bleed. this is not really out of the ordinary. If you want to do two bands at once you need to do this to prevent bleed and it is the norm in other massive fests.

People getting lost at fests was a serious thing. I know many fests I would head up with one group and head home with a second group. Sometimes we would meet people and head out with them.


I also love the feminist take on Woodstock.  Like WTF how did you go to this being interested at all in feminism and not see how bad it would be?  Like did you even Lilith Fair once yo?  That is where all the female bands were, at Lilith Fair.  Also Woodstock 69 and 94 had the same issues with girls getting grabbed and shit.  

Glad they focused on the water issue. For people who only see this online or may have forgotten it, the issue of rage was water. That is what ultimately made my friends leave, there was no water. The free water was destroyed or contaminated on the first day, by the second day there was no free water to be found. If it was there my friends never seen it. So it was four bucks if you wanted water.

Funny Moby was talking about homophobia and toxic masculinity. When he came to his cousin's party in 2000, he was drunk as fuck rambling about his 8mm pornography collection to the point where no one really wanted to be around him and his cousin asked him to leave.  Seems to have forgot that asshole Moby phase me went through that made almost everyone of his original fans ditch him.

Really funny that promoters and musicians kept claiming that this generation had no great purpose.  The Fight Club quote showed it well.  They had a purpose.  This was the era when people first realized the American dream was dead and they were pissed off.  The war was against corporate greed.  And the people after the second night went to war.  

Hilarious they try to blame Durst for the crowd ripping apart the light and sound stages.  By the time they played, the crowd was so angry that my friends, who were into 90's NYHC, looked around and said it was not worth it to stay after Limp to see Rage, one of our favorite bands, or Metallica and it would be best to get out while they still could safely.  They picked a good time too, as the fires were just starting as they bailed.

Rave seg was really awkward too as the raves started in 94.  

Fucking disgusting to see the promoters downplay the sexual assaults and blame the women.  There was a reason women did not want to go to this, this shit was normal at most concerts, raves and fests in the US.  

Still baffled as to why anyone would be there after Saturday night.  Saturday night from everyone I talked to that was there, in different groups was a shitshow.  The rave had a violent vibe all night with people fighting to Moby and the DJs, screams were heard all throughout the night.  It sounded like a horror story.  Glad they really captured the feel of Sat night.  One two of my friends were there until the end, and they said that final day was just scary.  Everyone was tearing shit apart, everyone was shit, dehydrated, hungry, ect.   

Was hoping the fires that started Sat night would be covered more instead of just making it out to be appearing with Red Hot.  Sat to Sun the place started to burn.  When the candles were thrown into the fire, they created wax fires which could not be put out.  

I haven't seen the doc, but would love for UT to expand on the culture of 1999.

I've always felt, there was something about 1999. This was a year that saw nu metal peak, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, South Park, WWF Attitude and so much aggression and shock and awe in pop culture.

As a 15, 16 year old.. it was awesome.

Being a bit older, 99 was the mark were it felt like everything people love was taking from us, marked up and sold back to us. Rampant capitalism was back and everyone felt it. Local shops were replaced with chains, prices started to rise fast, people started to charge for everything. Fight Club was the ultimate movie that captured the feel perfectly.

Just finished the doc, wish they went longer to cover more, but damn good coverage. The only fest in the US that was worse than this was Altamont Speedway Free Festival. And that one needs a new documentary badly.

Overall great doc that captured the disaster well. Wish they focused more on the water, as that was the cornerstone of what went wrong. Sure filling it with NY college kids and Shore Bros was a set up for bad things, but the lack of water set up the rage. Just insane that to this day they take no responsibility.

Jul 26, 2021 8:11:04 GMT c said:

Just finished the doc, wish they went longer to cover more, but damn good coverage. The only fest in the US that was worse than this was Altamont Speedway Free Festival. And that one needs a new documentary badly.

Overall great doc that captured the disaster well. Wish they focused more on the water, as that was the cornerstone of what went wrong. Sure filling it with NY college kids and Shore Bros was a set up for bad things, but the lack of water set up the rage. Just insane that to this day they take no responsibility.

Well confiscating water bottles and charging $4 a bottle to buy , which was also the same as beer they did cover quite a bit.

Jul 26, 2021 8:01:35 GMT nath45.47 said:

I haven't seen the doc, but would love for UT to expand on the culture of 1999.

I've always felt, there was something about 1999. This was a year that saw nu metal peak, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, South Park, WWF Attitude and so much aggression and shock and awe in pop culture.

As a 15, 16 year old.. it was awesome.

I mean the doc does a better job than I could but Fight Club is another capsule of the anger and aggression at the time. You also have Columbine a few months before this.

The feeling of middle class white dudes against capitalism and being oppressed is a huge talking point all throughout and a valid one IMO. Not that they were oppressed but they certainly had that feeling and Nu Metal and culture tapped into that.

Also have the sexualization of women at maybe an all time high. Between the pop stars coming up , AE , Maxim or Stuff - everything had women being half naked and it created a culture where dudes felt entitled to women - especially judging by the amount of rapes and assaults that went on.

Also I never thought about the revolt against MTV at this time but they played a huge part in the crowds angst and hatred by simply being there.

They should have covered the damage to all the drinking fountains and spray areas as well. By the end of the first day they were destroyed, well before Limp took stage. The damage started during Kid Rock as they were tearing apart the light and soundstages to sit on them to get better views.

Also one thing they missed is the prices of food and water were known almost as soon as the ticket price was made public. By the time the $150 tickets went on sale they confirmed $4 water, $5 hotdogs and $12 pizza. So even if you had free water, you were still going to have to pay out the ass to eat.

But yeah, covering the fans destroying the water infrastructure would have really hammered home the narrative that they did this to themselves.

Also they did not really cover how the show ended well. In the end fucking armored anti-riot police vehicles went in and lit the kids up with non-lethal rounds. They then cleared the ground with tear gas.

Again though, 2 hours was not nearly enough time to cover this all in depth. They packed a whole lot into the time they had. I do REALLY like they showed how things evolved over time, which was the right way to frame this. But this was an event I think to really capture everything that went wrong, would have been best like a Tiger King series and spend a full episode on the announcement of the fest and sales, then doing a day 1 episode, day 2 episode, day 3 episode, night 3 episode, day 4 episode, night 4 episode, clearing the field episode then an aftermath episode. This fest was extremely documented with thousands of people they could have interviewed easily. I did LOVE how they did nail the metaphor that many used, in four days the fest descended into Lord of the Flies. I been at rough shows, with fires, riots, destruction, ect, but nothing as crazy as nightfall that final night.

I gravely regret not going to Woodstock '94, but absolutely made the right choice IMO skipping this one. My friend Dennis was hospitalized the second day from that heat. It was bad, really bad. The lack of water made things that much worse.

Jul 26, 2021 12:36:21 GMT UT said:

Jul 26, 2021 8:01:35 GMT nath45.47 said:

I haven't seen the doc, but would love for UT to expand on the culture of 1999.

I've always felt, there was something about 1999. This was a year that saw nu metal peak, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, South Park, WWF Attitude and so much aggression and shock and awe in pop culture.

As a 15, 16 year old.. it was awesome.

I mean the doc does a better job than I could but Fight Club is another capsule of the anger and aggression at the time. You also have Columbine a few months before this.

The feeling of middle class white dudes against capitalism and being oppressed is a huge talking point all throughout and a valid one IMO. Not that they were oppressed but they certainly had that feeling and Nu Metal and culture tapped into that.

Also have the sexualization of women at maybe an all time high. Between the pop stars coming up , AE , Maxim or Stuff - everything had women being half naked and it created a culture where dudes felt entitled to women - especially judging by the amount of rapes and assaults that went on.

Also I never thought about the revolt against MTV at this time but they played a huge part in the crowds angst and hatred by simply being there.

By the same token, MTV was still playing videos and promoting the Nu-Metal scene.  It was not until a few years later the turn on them was complete.  But almost all of the bands at this concert were MTV made bands.  This is why it was not really seen as a revolt against MTV, but a product of MTV.  I mean, Rage, Korn, Limp, ect would be nothing without MTV, as all three were pretty damn small until their videos went into heavy rotation.  The whole concert felt like MTV books a concert with 80% of the bands being bands that were emerging on MTV's shows.  

Here is a great podcast series on Woodstock '99 that covers some of the same stuff as the doc, but expands in other directions as well.  Not all free here but can usually find it elsewhere.  Not really listened to this since they paywalled it though...

luminarypodcasts.com/listen/the-ringer/break-stuff-the-story-of-woodstock-99/708febba-17a8-4f4b-a81f-63b1a53e7135?country=US

I really enjoyed that, thanks again for the recommendation UT.

I read an interview from Bill Simmons that he made this series with the purpose of making rewatchable content and it certainly hit the mark. The documentary does a wonderful job of putting you there in that moment and it comes at it from so many different angles.

It's something that I'll definitely be returning too but largely what I took it out of it was the social dynamics of the festival and the sexual exploitation of women. I feel like they hammered those points and while they were genuine concerns there were times I wish they dug a little deeper. It just seemed at a certain point everything came back to 'white man rage' which felt lazy to me. Maybe that's all there was to it but it seemed like they could have dug further into other topics. The rave sequence from memory basically came down to two points 1. Having the day run until 5am in the morning was stupid 2. White guys don't know how to bliss out.

Still, they covered so much I feel like they covered all the essential points. Outside of the social issues at the festival, what struck me is just how huge nu-metal was for a minute. The visual of the crowd during Limp Bizkit's Break Stuff was surreal especially during this whole pandemic.

The scary thing is, two years later Limp Bizkit played a festival in Sydney where a 15 year old girl died in their mosh-pit. It's just crazy the Australian promoters saw what happened at Woodstock and didn't put in as many precautions as possible. Also kind of shitty from Limp Bizkit that they continued to incite the audience and call out security for trying to do their jobs. Interestingly the Red Hot Chilli Peppers played the 2000 festival circuit and they learned their lesson and put a halt to their performance until everyone took one step back and calmed down.

Jul 26, 2021 12:53:19 GMT c said:

They should have covered the damage to all the drinking fountains and spray areas as well. By the end of the first day they were destroyed, well before Limp took stage. The damage started during Kid Rock as they were tearing apart the light and soundstages to sit on them to get better views.

Also one thing they missed is the prices of food and water were known almost as soon as the ticket price was made public. By the time the $150 tickets went on sale they confirmed $4 water, $5 hotdogs and $12 pizza. So even if you had free water, you were still going to have to pay out the ass to eat.

But yeah, covering the fans destroying the water infrastructure would have really hammered home the narrative that they did this to themselves.

Also they did not really cover how the show ended well. In the end fucking armored anti-riot police vehicles went in and lit the kids up with non-lethal rounds. They then cleared the ground with tear gas.

Again though, 2 hours was not nearly enough time to cover this all in depth. They packed a whole lot into the time they had. I do REALLY like they showed how things evolved over time, which was the right way to frame this. But this was an event I think to really capture everything that went wrong, would have been best like a Tiger King series and spend a full episode on the announcement of the fest and sales, then doing a day 1 episode, day 2 episode, day 3 episode, night 3 episode, day 4 episode, night 4 episode, clearing the field episode then an aftermath episode. This fest was extremely documented with thousands of people they could have interviewed easily. I did LOVE how they did nail the metaphor that many used, in four days the fest descended into Lord of the Flies. I been at rough shows, with fires, riots, destruction, ect, but nothing as crazy as nightfall that final night.

I gravely regret not going to Woodstock '94, but absolutely made the right choice IMO skipping this one. My friend Dennis was hospitalized the second day from that heat. It was bad, really bad. The lack of water made things that much worse.

They did cover it. Patrons were taking showers in the fountains and a few bright sparks got the bright idea to destroy a pipe which turned the festival into a bog. They also destroyed the porter-potties so festival goers were rolling around in their own filth.

EDIT: It's about 38 minutes into the doco and it gets it's own 5 minute segment.

Jul 26, 2021 13:11:13 GMT Big Pete said:

Jul 26, 2021 12:53:19 GMT c said:

They should have covered the damage to all the drinking fountains and spray areas as well. By the end of the first day they were destroyed, well before Limp took stage. The damage started during Kid Rock as they were tearing apart the light and soundstages to sit on them to get better views.

Also one thing they missed is the prices of food and water were known almost as soon as the ticket price was made public. By the time the $150 tickets went on sale they confirmed $4 water, $5 hotdogs and $12 pizza. So even if you had free water, you were still going to have to pay out the ass to eat.

But yeah, covering the fans destroying the water infrastructure would have really hammered home the narrative that they did this to themselves.

Also they did not really cover how the show ended well. In the end fucking armored anti-riot police vehicles went in and lit the kids up with non-lethal rounds. They then cleared the ground with tear gas.

Again though, 2 hours was not nearly enough time to cover this all in depth. They packed a whole lot into the time they had. I do REALLY like they showed how things evolved over time, which was the right way to frame this. But this was an event I think to really capture everything that went wrong, would have been best like a Tiger King series and spend a full episode on the announcement of the fest and sales, then doing a day 1 episode, day 2 episode, day 3 episode, night 3 episode, day 4 episode, night 4 episode, clearing the field episode then an aftermath episode. This fest was extremely documented with thousands of people they could have interviewed easily. I did LOVE how they did nail the metaphor that many used, in four days the fest descended into Lord of the Flies. I been at rough shows, with fires, riots, destruction, ect, but nothing as crazy as nightfall that final night.

I gravely regret not going to Woodstock '94, but absolutely made the right choice IMO skipping this one. My friend Dennis was hospitalized the second day from that heat. It was bad, really bad. The lack of water made things that much worse.

They did cover it. Patrons were taking showers in the fountains and a few bright sparks got the bright idea to destroy a pipe which turned the festival into a bog. They also destroyed the porter-potties so festival goers were rolling around in their own filth.

EDIT: It's about 38 minutes into the doco and it gets it's own 5 minute segment.

They covered the wells and the pipe.  But not people ripping down the water spray cooling areas or kicking over the fountains.  Like if people did not get nuts there was enough free water to be able to refill the bottles without using the wells.  Before that pipe was broken most of the water fountains were trashed.  That pipe mostly created the shit pit.  

This youtube doc has some more insane shit that was not included like ICP's performance, Korn inciting the crowd, the directors trying to cut Durst off, ect.  Also does a fucking great job of showing how the media narrative from day one was this show was a dangerous disaster.  

Jul 26, 2021 13:02:19 GMT c said:

Jul 26, 2021 12:36:21 GMT UT said:

I mean the doc does a better job than I could but Fight Club is another capsule of the anger and aggression at the time. You also have Columbine a few months before this.

The feeling of middle class white dudes against capitalism and being oppressed is a huge talking point all throughout and a valid one IMO. Not that they were oppressed but they certainly had that feeling and Nu Metal and culture tapped into that.

Also have the sexualization of women at maybe an all time high. Between the pop stars coming up , AE , Maxim or Stuff - everything had women being half naked and it created a culture where dudes felt entitled to women - especially judging by the amount of rapes and assaults that went on.

Also I never thought about the revolt against MTV at this time but they played a huge part in the crowds angst and hatred by simply being there.

By the same token, MTV was still playing videos and promoting the Nu-Metal scene.  It was not until a few years later the turn on them was complete.  But almost all of the bands at this concert were MTV made bands.  This is why it was not really seen as a revolt against MTV, but a product of MTV.  I mean, Rage, Korn, Limp, ect would be nothing without MTV, as all three were pretty damn small until their videos went into heavy rotation.  The whole concert felt like MTV books a concert with 80% of the bands being bands that were emerging on MTV's shows.  

Yes but I don’t know that was the perception , as far as they covered it - I feel like they felt that the pop stars were invading their ideal version of MTV and they really did start playing to the tween crowd more and more. True or not - MTV always presented themselves as counter culture and they did a 180 at the time and became everything this generation was told to hate.

Jul 26, 2021 13:08:21 GMT Big Pete said:

I really enjoyed that, thanks again for the recommendation UT.

I read an interview from Bill Simmons that he made this series with the purpose of making rewatchable content and it certainly hit the mark. The documentary does a wonderful job of putting you there in that moment and it comes at it from so many different angles.

It's something that I'll definitely be returning too but largely what I took it out of it was the social dynamics of the festival and the sexual exploitation of women. I feel like they hammered those points and while they were genuine concerns there were times I wish they dug a little deeper. It just seemed at a certain point everything came back to 'white man rage' which felt lazy to me. Maybe that's all there was to it but it seemed like they could have dug further into other topics. The rave sequence from memory basically came down to two points 1. Having the day run until 5am in the morning was stupid 2. White guys don't know how to bliss out.

Still, they covered so much I feel like they covered all the essential points. Outside of the social issues at the festival, what struck me is just how huge nu-metal was for a minute. The visual of the crowd during Limp Bizkit's Break Stuff was surreal especially during this whole pandemic.

The scary thing is, two years later Limp Bizkit played a festival in Sydney where a 15 year old girl died in their mosh-pit. It's just crazy the Australian promoters saw what happened at Woodstock and didn't put in as many precautions as possible. Also kind of shitty from Limp Bizkit that they continued to incite the audience and call out security for trying to do their jobs. Interestingly the Red Hot Chilli Peppers played the 2000 festival circuit and they learned their lesson and put a halt to their performance until everyone took one step back and calmed down.

Yeah seeing or remembering how big of a deal Limp Bizkit was threw me a bit. They are a joke now but they were really one of the biggest acts on the planet. I still think I agree with the fact that Limp Bizkit was given too much blame.

Anthony Kiedes playing Fire while they were burning down the festival seemed far more egregious.

Jul 26, 2021 13:23:08 GMT UT said:

Jul 26, 2021 13:02:19 GMT c said:

By the same token, MTV was still playing videos and promoting the Nu-Metal scene.  It was not until a few years later the turn on them was complete.  But almost all of the bands at this concert were MTV made bands.  This is why it was not really seen as a revolt against MTV, but a product of MTV.  I mean, Rage, Korn, Limp, ect would be nothing without MTV, as all three were pretty damn small until their videos went into heavy rotation.  The whole concert felt like MTV books a concert with 80% of the bands being bands that were emerging on MTV's shows.  

Yes but I don’t know that was the perception , as far as they covered it - I feel like they felt that the pop stars were invading their ideal version of MTV and they really did start playing to the tween crowd more and more. True or not - MTV always presented themselves as counter culture and they did a 180 at the time and became everything this generation was told to hate.

99 was a mix of stuff on MTV.  Would not be until 01 or 02 that the feeling was that MTV was now a pop only station.  They were changing at this time, but still did a lot of late night stuff that was metal, like 120 minutes, headbangers ball and even the techno show amp during this area.  Still had dreamtime as well.  

I mean look at it like this.  TRL started at the end of 98.  By 99 it was still rather small and did not start to get large until 2000.  99 was Backstreet Boys and Brittany's debuts.  NSYNC was not even on the station yet.  So the timeline for MTV becoming a pop station in 99 was not entirely accurate.  

Jul 26, 2021 13:02:19 GMT c said:

Jul 26, 2021 12:36:21 GMT UT said:

I mean the doc does a better job than I could but Fight Club is another capsule of the anger and aggression at the time. You also have Columbine a few months before this.

The feeling of middle class white dudes against capitalism and being oppressed is a huge talking point all throughout and a valid one IMO. Not that they were oppressed but they certainly had that feeling and Nu Metal and culture tapped into that.

Also have the sexualization of women at maybe an all time high. Between the pop stars coming up , AE , Maxim or Stuff - everything had women being half naked and it created a culture where dudes felt entitled to women - especially judging by the amount of rapes and assaults that went on.

Also I never thought about the revolt against MTV at this time but they played a huge part in the crowds angst and hatred by simply being there.

By the same token, MTV was still playing videos and promoting the Nu-Metal scene.  It was not until a few years later the turn on them was complete.  But almost all of the bands at this concert were MTV made bands.  This is why it was not really seen as a revolt against MTV, but a product of MTV.  I mean, Rage, Korn, Limp, ect would be nothing without MTV, as all three were pretty damn small until their videos went into heavy rotation.  The whole concert felt like MTV books a concert with 80% of the bands being bands that were emerging on MTV's shows.  

I agree, the likes of Limp Bizkit were just breaking internationally during 1999 - Significant Other had just come out in June. Korn probably broke around 1997 with Follow the Leader - but didn't really become the ALMIGHTY Korn until around 1999. Rage, I don't considering them as part of the nu-metal movement. But regardless, nu-metal had legs well in the early 2000s before being replaced with hardcore/screamo/emo. 

All in all, these nu-metal bands were as mainstream as it gets at that point in time, they were played continually on 'Channel V' ( Australia's then, MTV like channel ) and mainstream radio had picked up Limp Bizkit, POD, Kid Rock, Staind, Papa Roach, Crazy Town. Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory was the best-selling album of 2001. Australia also had a huge alternative music subculture to the point it was mainstream with Triple J Radio, Rage (video show) and Recovery (alt-music entertainment show) on ABC TV. 

Woodstock isn't unique for Limp Bizkit though - and I'm talking as a former fan - The 2001 Big Day Out in Australia wasn't good for anyone involved either. There was a documentary on the BDO years ago. And it's a similar story, the energy changes, the aggression is amplified by the band, it's obnoxious overload in hindsight and it's a recipe for disaster. Of course, not all the blame is with Limp Bizkit again, they asked for a different stage set up to break the crowd up. But shit.. bad things sort of followed this band around for a short time. 

Jul 26, 2021 13:20:07 GMT c said:

Jul 26, 2021 13:11:13 GMT Big Pete said:

They did cover it. Patrons were taking showers in the fountains and a few bright sparks got the bright idea to destroy a pipe which turned the festival into a bog. They also destroyed the porter-potties so festival goers were rolling around in their own filth.

EDIT: It's about 38 minutes into the doco and it gets it's own 5 minute segment.

They covered the wells and the pipe.  But not people ripping down the water spray cooling areas or kicking over the fountains.  Like if people did not get nuts there was enough free water to be able to refill the bottles without using the wells.  Before that pipe was broken most of the water fountains were trashed.  That pipe mostly created the shit pit.  

This youtube doc has some more insane shit that was not included like ICP's performance, Korn inciting the crowd, the directors trying to cut Durst off, ect.  Also does a fucking great job of showing how the media narrative from day one was this show was a dangerous disaster.  

They covered the fountains as well and how ridiculous the line-ups were just to use water. The pipe being destroyed and flooding the event and the whole porter potty story is the headline and I think it really portrayed just how destructive the crowd was and how negligent the organisers were.

The documentary covered a couple of those as well, there was a ton of information there.

The social issues that the event brought to the forefront def had a lot more they could have went over. Sexual assault at concerts was super common during this era. It was really bad. I remember when my friend's little sister wanted to come to see Ozzfest '01 with us, we told her she was not allowed out of arm's length as we did not want anything to happen to her.

I cannot imagine how bad these overnight fests get when things get dark. At just normal fest I seen girls get their clothes ripped off crowd surfing, girls get groped crowd surfing, and people in read bad places from getting assaulted. Almost every band that took the stage during this era that had a female in the band got show your tits calls between every fucking song.

Also missed in a way was mosh culture, that was just really starting in mid 90's when bands started to encourage more and more moshing. This show was in NY, with a heavy NY / NJ crowd where by 99 moshing was getting fucking brutal. The hardcore kids would pick you up before you hit the floor, but the nu-metal crowd often if you fell you got boots. They did not come into this scene from punk or hardcore, and without fail there were people in the pit just to hurt others.

Jul 26, 2021 13:35:15 GMT c said:

Jul 26, 2021 13:23:08 GMT UT said:

Yes but I don’t know that was the perception , as far as they covered it - I feel like they felt that the pop stars were invading their ideal version of MTV and they really did start playing to the tween crowd more and more. True or not - MTV always presented themselves as counter culture and they did a 180 at the time and became everything this generation was told to hate.

99 was a mix of stuff on MTV.  Would not be until 01 or 02 that the feeling was that MTV was now a pop only station.  They were changing at this time, but still did a lot of late night stuff that was metal, like 120 minutes, headbangers ball and even the techno show amp during this area.  Still had dreamtime as well.  

I mean look at it like this.  TRL started at the end of 98.  By 99 it was still rather small and did not start to get large until 2000.  99 was Backstreet Boys and Brittany's debuts.  NSYNC was not even on the station yet.  So the timeline for MTV becoming a pop station in 99 was not entirely accurate.  

I'm not even really arguing that - it was the integration of them acts and not the full fledged takeover. 

Britney was 1998 though , at least when Baby One More Time Came Out and N'Sync had a like 3 or 4 popular songs in 1999 that played huge on MTV along with Backstreet Boys who ruled 1999 so your timeline isn't really accurate. 

Also by most accounts , TRL peaked in popularity in 2000 - they were already doing live shows on set in 1999 so again ... a few years off your timeline. 

Also Big Pete , I found the whole rave scene stuff pretty fascinating , the idea that this festival planned to just never stop and offer all night raves to these kids who spent the day drinking and doing drugs in 110 degree heat as to never be able to truly recover is crazy. Moby is someone who I've NEVER cared for but I thought he had some great insight on the whole festival including the rave tents where he finally just said fuck it and left.

Double also , not hiring actual security or really having no training or care in the world if they were competent didn't help. Especially when a portion of your security force decided the festival looked like too much fun and pocketed their credentials and decided to go party instead. I mean after they confiscated water bottles but allowed all the drugs in.