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Post by Big Pete on Mar 15, 2024 19:25:40 GMT
Did Okada debut and that was a legit line from commentary or is it hopeful thinking? I'm all for Okada being a BOBCORE influenced worker. That was a verbatim on Dynamite.
Then Taz gave his former 'What Era' tag team partner Spike Dudley a shout out later in the show.
It's only a matter of time before Hardcore shows himself.
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Post by Baker on Mar 16, 2024 0:03:19 GMT
It's only a matter of time before Hardcore shows himself.
Not gonna lie. This would be an even bigger draw for me than Double J. So many possibilities. Reunite Hard Ass. BOBCORE stiffs the Bucks. They give him the belt. Then he beats everybody. So many dimes drawn. Would also settle for Okada being a BOBCORE cosplayer. Lemme know if he starts using the Alabama Slamma. While I'm here, have they ever run an angle where Jericho dressed up as Excalibur? Real ones know why I ask.
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Post by Baker on Mar 16, 2024 4:15:51 GMT
The Wrestling Fan Bio thread got me back to thinking about something I intended to post a while ago. Brand vs. Individual Wrestlers.
Back in the day I was a Brand Guy. WWF was built around Hogan, Austin, and various lesser lights (I'm including Cena in this category) from the 80s-2000s. Yet I typically couldn't stand the top guy. I was all about, for lack of a better term, the bit players. Or, if you prefer, The Brand. WCW when it was good and ECW were more about The Brand than that one top guy. Even my favorite TNA era was more of a total package thing than just Jarrett or Raven. You could make an argument that the biggest individual draws for me were actually indie wrestlers like Daniels & Teddy who I would drive to shows (or order tapes) specifically to see.
Fast forward to 2009 and beyond. Now I'm all about individual wrestlers over the brand. Best case scenario I get into a wrestler for a little while and check out their stuff. I'm certainly not watching many full shows during this period. Funny thing is WWE & AEW are all about The Brand over any individual stars nowadays. Meaning I am once again Backwards Man.
How about you guys? What draws (or drew) for you- The Brand or that one individual wrestler you had to see?
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Post by Ed on Mar 16, 2024 21:07:27 GMT
I'm a brand guy. Wrestling is about 2 or more wrestlers that gel together to make an entertaining story. I like to see how promotions create their identity & styles. As much as I enjoyed watching David Von Erich wrestle, WCCW felt like a vanity project for the brothers. No matter what happened, they would always prevail.
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Post by Baker on Mar 19, 2024 1:03:48 GMT
AWF had great names for their jobbers- Trevor Blanchard, Billy Joe Eaton, Night Train Jackson, Danny Boy Hawkins. Really hope they went full carny at some point and put up posters advertising Blanchard, Eaton, and Danny Boy in the hope of tricking people into thinking they were seeing Tully, Bobby, and Davey Boy.
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Post by Ness on Mar 19, 2024 1:06:26 GMT
Nothing feels quite as pro wrestling as a title as part of their name.
"THE STRANGLER"
"BEAUTIFUL"
Love seeing it.
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Post by Leper Messiah on Mar 19, 2024 19:15:14 GMT
After watching the Buff Bagwell episode of "Dark Side of the Ring", and seeing the stinger Buff got from the bulldog botch with Steiner, it makes me think, had it happened in AEW, a wrestler would have to pick Bagwell up, drop him on his head, and pin him, before letting Buff get treatment.😂
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Post by Baker on Mar 24, 2024 0:10:56 GMT
Listened to an interesting Regal interview the other day when he was a guest on Bradshaw & Brisco's podcast. His Lordship is a good interview. Likes to talk. Very humble. One of the few old school wrestlers who isn't a chronic whiner, miserable sumbitch, standup philosopher, or all of the above. Plus he earns additional points for being quite possibly the last legit carny to make a name for himself in the business, as in he was working the old UK carnival circuit as a teenager. Anyway, he mentioned a childhood favorite of his named "Cyanide" Sid Cooper in this interview so I decided to check out a match of his.
And who better for an opponent than the great Sammy "Tiger Mask" Lee? Cooper looked like a 3rd Bushwhacker. Match seemed vaguely familiar. Whoops! No wonder. Turns out I watched and reviewed it right here on PW a few years ago.
Both times I came away less impressed with Cooper's heel 101ing and more impressed with the state-of-the-art Tiger Mask wrestling at the speed of light. He seemed invincible...a lightweight Hulk Hogan having travelled back in time from the future. This was his first televised match in the UK. They responded with the same shock and awe as American fans glimpsing Tiger for the first time. This got me to thinking...
Tiger left NJPW after a falling out with management. He sat out almost an entire year before debuting with the new UWF promotion. Then he quit that promotion after 14 months. Story I heard back in the day (through an Apter publication?) was he had a falling out with Maeda over whether UWF should be based around submissions or kicks. Teenage me thought this was the dumbest, most petty argument ever, but maybe it means more to MMA fans? Anyway, Tiger Mask then sat out another 9 years from age 28-37.
And now we're finally getting to the point of this very meandering post. This dude was an instant success everywhere he worked. He was a legit draw in New Japan despite being a lightweight. He got over huge right away in both the US & UK. And he sat out 9 years during what should have been his prime. If I had a time machine I'd throw bags of $$$ at TM and book him as a special attraction. Make him an invincible lightweight...a cruiserweight Andre or Undertaker. I know the territories were drying up, but I really think Tiger would have been an all time great special attraction had timing been more in his favor. He could travel the world, wowing fans in every region, and moving on before they got too familiar with his flash. Then he'd be back in 6 months to a year to wow them all over again.
The other point of this meandering post is Tiger Mask continues to climb in my esteem. He was doing New Style Wrestling nearly 15 years before it really caught on in America.
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Post by Ness on Mar 24, 2024 0:13:44 GMT
I like to think every brit is secretly a bare knuckle fighter. They always pushed that as a STREET CRED thing for those guys. In America it was all about the SINGLET. All American? Whatever that means, I know it means wrestling "stud".
Also just wanna point out speaking of "cred" I legit bought into Test's Motley Crew body guard (or whatever job it was) as a shoot. Like I legit thought they just found some bouncer and turned him into a worker.
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Post by Baker on Mar 24, 2024 0:24:04 GMT
I like to think every brit is secretly a bare knuckle fighter. Forget where, but a long time ago I heard (saw? read?) a thing explaining how Americans believed there were only two types of Brit- your posh aristocrats and your soccer hooligans. Or toffs and chavs. Royals and coal miners. However you want to want word it. Regal was both! You gotta respect it.
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 24, 2024 0:40:16 GMT
Listened to an interesting Regal interview the other day when he was a guest on Bradshaw & Brisco's podcast. His Lordship is a good interview. Likes to talk. Very humble. One of the few old school wrestlers who isn't a chronic whiner, miserable sumbitch, standup philosopher, or all of the above. Plus he earns additional points for being quite possibly the last legit carny to make a name for himself in the business, as in he was working the old UK carnival circuit as a teenager. Anyway, he mentioned a childhood favorite of his named "Cyanide" Sid Cooper in this interview so I decided to check out a match of his. And who better for an opponent than the great Sammy "Tiger Mask" Lee? Cooper looked like a 3rd Bushwhacker. Match seemed vaguely familiar. Whoops! No wonder. Turns out I watched and reviewed it right here on PW a few years ago. Both times I came away less impressed with Cooper's heel 101ing and more impressed with the state-of-the-art Tiger Mask wrestling at the speed of light. He seemed invincible...a lightweight Hulk Hogan having travelled back in time from the future. This was his first televised match in the UK. They responded with the same shock and awe as American fans glimpsing Tiger for the first time. This got me to thinking... Tiger left NJPW after a falling out with management. He sat out almost an entire year before debuting with the new UWF promotion. Then he quit that promotion after 14 months. Story I heard back in the day (through an Apter publication?) was he had a falling out with Maeda over whether UWF should be based around submissions or kicks. Teenage me thought this was the dumbest, most petty argument ever, but maybe it means more to MMA fans? Anyway, Tiger Mask then sat out another 9 years from age 28-37. And now we're finally getting to the point of this very meandering post. This dude was an instant success everywhere he worked. He was a legit draw in New Japan despite being a lightweight. He got over huge right away in both the US & UK. And he sat out 9 years during what should have been his prime. If I had a time machine I'd throw bags of $$$ at TM and book him as a special attraction. Make him an invincible lightweight...a cruiserweight Andre or Undertaker. I know the territories were drying up, but I really think Tiger would have been an all time great special attraction had timing been more in his favor. He could travel the world, wowing fans in every region, and moving on before they got too familiar with his flash. Then he'd be back in 6 months to a year to wow them all over again. The other point of this meandering post is Tiger Mask continues to climb in my esteem. He was doing New Style Wrestling nearly 15 years before it really caught on in America. Had an aborted AWA project on the old PW that was basically going to be, "What if I killed Verne Gagne the day of Hogan vs. Bockwinkel on Super Sunday and took over the AWA making it into what the WWF would become?" Like a dictator muscling his way into power of a country. Anyway, was going to build a Cruiserweight Division around Tiger Mask in it. One of the least far fetched things to do since he was available for a decade. Tiger Mask vs. Eddie Gilbert in my AWA in 1987 would be dimes.
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Post by Leper Messiah on Mar 25, 2024 14:39:44 GMT
A very random thought, but has any wrestling fan decided to do a baby gender reveal by painting a Stormtrooper helmet pink or blue, then recreating the Shockmaster debut?
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Post by Baker on Mar 26, 2024 4:20:38 GMT
A very random thought, but has any wrestling fan decided to do a baby gender reveal by painting a Stormtrooper helmet pink or blue, then recreating the Shockmaster debut? Hopefully! ======== Constantly finding stalemates predating RVD/Lynn (I'm not exaggerating when I say we could find 100) has become an amusing little side hobby. I found two today, one from 1957 & another from 1980, and I wasn't even trying! Anyway, all the discussion surrounding one of the more hilariously wrong takes in the history of internet wrestling reminded me of an amusing similar argument from a decade or two earlier... It was one of those "Who Invented X?" threads on another forum. DVDVR or Wrestling Classic or Kayfabe Memories, something like that. The German Suplex was mentioned in this thread. Somebody, or more likely multiple people, went with the generally accepted answer of Karl Gotch. I think there was some old timer there who swore they saw Lou Thesz (or somebody like that) do it at a house show in Podunk, Arkansas or what have you prior to Gotch. Then some big-brained super Clavin barges in with "Nuh uh! German Suplex has been around since the ancient Greeks! It's depicted on pottery and everything!" I'd like to believe somebody came in after that going to bat for the Egyptians or Sumerians, but if so, I do not remember it. As best I can remember the ancient Greeks won the day. Maybe we should start calling it the Greek Suplex?
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 26, 2024 4:59:47 GMT
Like to think "Depicted on pottery" Guy is basing that strictly on the Coliseum Video intro.
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 26, 2024 5:02:29 GMT
Because Baker mentioned DVDVR, gotta share this from a few weeks back, which really did happen.
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Post by Baker on Mar 26, 2024 20:30:32 GMT
Like to think "Depicted on pottery" Guy is basing that strictly on the Coliseum Video intro. This is the story I choose to believe. Because Baker mentioned DVDVR, gotta share this from a few weeks back, which really did happen. This is why I can never be a full on Coach Tony K hater. Yeah, he has his questionable moments, but the guy is just a super fan at heart. If anything, it's that passion which leads to those not uncommon moments of cringe. While I'm sure we have radically different philosophies, I feel like Coach Tony is somebody I could talk wrestling with for hours. The guy knows his stuff. Whereas I'd be bored with most of the posters on PW (outside of HoW!) within 5 minutes. Also, Danielson & Khan are actually underselling 2004 American Dragon. No "going to be" disclaimer needed. There were already people calling Danielson the Best in the World by 2004. Heck, there were even a few early adapters putting him in that conversation way back in 01-02. They were! I was there!
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Post by Ness on Mar 26, 2024 20:41:57 GMT
He's one of us if our Daddy was born better.
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Post by Baker on Mar 29, 2024 1:18:09 GMT
This is only tangentially related to wrestling, but it's a story I have to get out of my system. At work today, likely inspired by the recent PW music discussion somehow triggering this latent memory, I thought of a real obscure character from school named Aaron and his "Sid Vicious Is Dead" t-shirt...
This Aaron was a creepy fellow who quite frankly freaked out Matt The IRS Fan and me. Aaron was a year above us and sat alone at either our lunch table, or the next one over. He wore all black and rarely spoke. Now I was also very quiet beyond the friendly confines of my inner circle, but I'd at least acknowledge the existence of other people with a wave, nod, or "Hello." The best you could hope for from Aaron was the occasional grunt. This was before Columbine so we didn't necessarily think "FUTURE SCHOOL SHOOTER," but we did have him down as the guy most likely to stab someone in the hallway just for the fun of it.
Anyway, multiple days a week Aaron would wear this black t-shirt with white writing proclaiming "SID VICIOUS IS DEAD." Matt and I were fascinated by this shirt because we knew Sid Vicious was very much alive. He had just returned to WWF! Which dates this to the 95 portion of the 94-95 school year. And surely nobody else in the history of the world would have had the very singular name "Sid Vicious." Matt and I, who were basically teenage versions of Jerry & George, discussed this guy's shirt way more than you would think. Like I said, we were fascinated. If Aaron hadn't been such a creep, we would have asked him what was going on with his FAKE NEWS shirt since we knew the only Sid Vicious who could possibly have existed was not only still alive but could be seen on tv Saturdays at noon (and Monday nights if you happened to be one of those lucky sods with cable). Maybe Matt (because there's no way I was doing it) did have the grapefruits to ask the million-dollar question only to be met with the usual radio silence or apathetic grunt? It's possible!
It wasn't until a few years into the 21st Century that I discovered another Sid Vicious had indeed existed and all I could think about was Aaron's shirt which had so vexed Matt and me.
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Post by Ness on Mar 29, 2024 1:21:56 GMT
The wrestling bubble (tm) is a thing we all share and I love finding myself trapped in it's vortex.
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 29, 2024 1:29:20 GMT
Love tales of young Baker's bubble, just a little innocent guy out there in the world.
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Post by Baker on Mar 29, 2024 1:33:59 GMT
Love tales of young Baker's bubble, just a little innocent guy out there in the world. I really was the suburban Woody Boyd prior to 2000.
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Post by Big Pete on Mar 29, 2024 8:07:52 GMT
I always remember being confused by this scene in Mission Hill.
Sid?
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 29, 2024 22:38:31 GMT
Tiger Mask + dirty 1980s New York City, felt like it was posted directly to me.
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Post by Ness on Mar 30, 2024 0:22:09 GMT
I can't pinpoint why but I hate everything about Tiger Mask especially anything modern related. Like their continued existence pisses me off.
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Post by Baker on Mar 31, 2024 2:46:15 GMT
Always amused by Ness irrational Tiger Mask hate. ================ Got time for another wresting bubble story. This one I mentioned in passing once or twice before without really going into detail. EDIT: I (likely) exaggerated for comedic effect, but the gist of this post, like all my non-Fairy Tale posts, is true. We're in late 95-early 96 as usual. There's a chance this even took place during the famed 1995 Christmas break. My cousin was staying with us for a few days. He had to write a paper for school about a major event that took place in 1995. This is what makes me think it just might have been during the '95 XMas vacation. Seems like the perfect year end assignment, right? Anyway, I helped him picked a topic for him so he could get to work and we could soon get back to whatever it is we wanted to do. Picking a topic was easy. Wrestlemania XI! Duh. What could possibly have been more newsworthy in 1995? I actually asked that question semi-sincerely and here's what I came up with, keeping in mind our 95-96 mentality... -Cal Ripken breaking Gehrig's record. This was THE story in Baltimore. Plus Cousin and I were massive Ripken/Orioles fans. Really feel like this should have been our subject even over WM 11. Maybe we had just rented WM 11 that weekend? It's possible! Or maybe it was another case of "out of sight, out of mind?" Time did go a lot faster back then. And baseball season had been over for a few months if I have the timeline right. So maybe Ripken breaking The Streak already felt more like something from the long ago? It's a theory! -The OJ Trial. This was THE story everywhere else. And honestly it was big in Baltimore, too. For my money this was one of the 3 biggest stories of the 90s. You had the Gulf War, you had the OJ drama, and you had the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal. Really feel like these 3 stories dominated the news coverage far more than anything else. -Mike Tyson's comeback & the Cleveland Browns announcing they were moving to Baltimore are other longshot options. Can you tell we were Sports Guys? Even if you want to stick with wrestling, the debut of Nitro was a far bigger news story than a mediocre 'Mania emanating from the metropolis of Hartford, CT. But WM 11 is what we I chose. I must have gone back to playing a video game or whatever while he worked on his paper. He comes back only some 5 minutes later and I'm like "Done already? Lemme see....This sucks!" Paraphrasing, but that first draft went something like... I obviously made him do it over again. He didn't do the show justice. More importantly, he didn't do WWF justice. Keep in mind, even at the time, I wasn't crazy about WM 11. It was ok at best. But he still had to do better than that. Second time maybe he listed all the matches and results...with one exception. He forgot to mention the Brothers Blu. Fail! Do it again. This time maybe he forgot to mention Larry Young. Very important! *sigh* If you want something done right, do it yourself. So I had him step aside to play the video game or whatever while I took control of the pen. Then I wrote and wrote and wrote, chronicling every match, every celebrity, doing my beloved WWF justice. Again, even in 1995 I didn't care much for this show, but I had a duty to do, and by God, I did it. Wish I could remember what grade he got. I'd like to believe it was an A. I'm pretty sure it was. Just as I'm sure no other kid in his class (he was a few years younger than me) wrote half as much as I did, or with half as much passion. Nor did they write about anything half as important... 50/50 chance I see him at an Easter function tomorrow. If so, I will ask if he remembers the time I wrote about Wrestlemania XI for his big class project. Guessing he does not.
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 31, 2024 3:10:12 GMT
What could possibly have been more newsworthy in 1995? Michael Jordan returning to the NBA and me accidentally discovering ECW are two of the bigger events of 1995 you forgot to mention.
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Post by Ness on Mar 31, 2024 14:25:31 GMT
I'll never forget where I was the first time Kilgore chanted E C W.
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Post by Baker on Apr 2, 2024 2:38:20 GMT
Watched a match from KOTR 94 today. You know what that means? Art Donovan commentary! Hated it back in the day. Drove me crazy the first time I watched the show. And the 2nd. And the 3rd. But nowadays it just makes me laugh. So bad it's good. You are dead inside if you don't at least get a kick out of Gorilla & Macho no selling this rambling idiot more and more as the night progresses. Don't even think Art's the WOAT anymore. That Rob Bartlett guy from the early days of Raw has him beat. Had to share this gem of an Art Donovan lowlight package...
What makes it even worse is this village idiot was treated like a God here in 80s & 90s Baltimore. Olds and youngs alike loved the guy. The top rated local news station, and the one my parents watched most nights, ABC Channel 13, had him on the Sports segment every Friday during football season for a decade or more. The Art Donovan you heard at KOTR 94 was Art Donovan! He was no better talking about football! I didn't get the appeal. I was an Art Donovan hater long before KOTR 94. And I got SO MUCH heat for it! People here LOVED this guy. The best comparison I can make is he was to late 20th Century Baltimore what Emperor Norton was to 19th Century San Francisco. Anyway, here is Art Donovan on Channel 13 pontificating on football and other things not too long after his infamous KOTR 94 appearance...
That was actually an upgrade over his usual appearance where he'd tell the same tired story of stripping down to make weight during his playing days and then stuffing his face with hot dogs before giving his trademark prediction of 'x will win by tree touchdowns' while my parents, brother, and occasional guests are marking out/cracking up at this senile grandpa the entire time as I feel like the last sane person in town. Oh, and Art could have passed for my grandfather's twin brother. Only ways to tell 'em apart were my grandfather had even more girth and lacked Art's thick Noo Yawk accent.
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Post by Kilgore on Apr 2, 2024 6:59:36 GMT
Such a great childhood tradition of older men in your life telling you a local radio sports guy is "great" or "hilarious" and then you listen to him and it's the worst thing you've ever heard in your fucking life. Hope that isn't being lost in today's national everything mass media environment.
I've watched KOTR 94 twice (when it aired live and then a re-watch in 2012) and this seems insane to me now, but I have no memory Art Donovan. I heard his awful inanity twice and just immediately forgot about it, I guess.
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Post by Baker on Apr 5, 2024 2:15:11 GMT
My cousin was staying with us for a few days... 50/50 chance I see him at an Easter function tomorrow. If so, I will ask if he remembers the time I wrote about Wrestlemania XI for his big class project. He no showed, but his sister was there, and I learned an interesting piece of information from her. Quick reminder she remains the only Aldo Montoya fan I ever knew. This includes both online and offline. Alas, she does not remember being an Aldo Montoya fan. She doesn't even remember Aldo Montoya! Or at least didn't when I brought this up a few years ago. Anyway, the "interesting piece of information" was discovering she once had a crush on my chum Chuck. Oh, what could have been... Quick reminder #2- Chuck was the lone HBK fan in my mid-late 90s wrestling fan clique and basically the Stevie to my Raven, the Patti to my Lana. He was also a big AWF & ExoSquad guy. Last time I saw him was an unplanned meetup at a sports bar for Royal Rumble 2007. ============ Another interesting thing from that first of two Easter outings was my mom bringing up an old friend of hers which reminded me of this... got me thinking about my friends from that era and their favorite wrestlers... Tommy, my mom's friend's son (96-97): NWO Which in turn caused me to begin writing about Tommy and the story behind his NWO shirt. Unfortunately, it has turned into long, rambling, bloated beast of a story with lots of minute detail and barely related tangents that will inevitably result in very little payoff. Think Kramer's pants story. There's even an ironic twist at the end! Provided I ever get that far. I'm already burned out for the night as this story has already taken many twists and turns as we progress from the 7/28/90 start date up through the 96-97 school year. Maybe tomorrow? ============ You know those little tv's on the gas pumps at your fancier gas stations? Well, I was pumping gas and looking at my phone today while the little gas station tv aired a Slim Jim commercial. I popped upon hearing Macho Man's iconic "OH YEAH!" But still wasn't interested enough to actually look up from my phone. Then something hit me. "That voice sounds vaguely familiar" I thought. But still I wasn't interested enough to look up from my phone. Then it hit me harder when the commercial ended with a "YEAH!" An L.A. Knight " YEAH!"TL;DR- TIL LA Knight does Slim Jim commercials nowadays. YEAH!
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