D'Lo has become a pretty underrated guy, in modern times. He was really good in the ring, and I'd always get excited to him wrestle. I think it's why I was disappointed his second WWE run was nothing special.

Just dawned on me, a few days late, but it's been 28 years since this classic moment occured.

Moves that are borderline nutshots... are they legal in kayfabe or is it a grey area? Dudleyz Wazzzuup, Jeff Hardy's weird grounded leg drop... even the atomic drop - are they low blows technically?

Sept 29, 2024 15:54:46 GMT @ness said:

Moves that are borderline nutshots... are they legal in kayfabe or is it a grey area? Dudleyz Wazzzuup, Jeff Hardy's weird grounded leg drop... even the atomic drop - are they low blows technically?

Now that you said this, this reminds of a match between Austin and Perfect. I think Hebner was the ref. Austin pointed to something in the crowd, saying "What's that?!", which made Hebner look away; he then proceeded to stomp Perfect right above his waistline.

The intimation is that he would have been disqualified, but rarely does anybody get disqualified ... which is probably one reason why nobody reacted.

I feel like we had an opportunity to see what D'Lo would look like with a main event push and he just wasn't cut out for the spot. '03 TNA exposed that while he could hang with the main event, he just didn't have the charisma or the in-ring ability to match it. 20 years later, what does he bring that the other 'tippy top' guys don't have?

I think Shamrock and Owen are the only two guys who would have been better off had they come around later. The rest of your X-Pacs, Hardcore Hollys,Billy Gunns, Tests, Al Snows etc. were only going to get pushed so far.

"The One" Billy Gunn push failed pretty miserably. He might have had a better run as the "image consultant" for The Beautiful People in TNA. 😂

A goat theme says he did not fail!!@

Billy Gunn always seemed doomed in singles roles, but could always get over in a tag team roll. Anyone he partnered with regularly, be it Bart Gunn, Road Dogg, or Chuck Pulumbo, all got over.

Not sure if Billy just knew how to do tag team roles better than singles rolls, or if WWE just doomed him with his singles gimmicks.

Some guys are just not meant to be singles stars. There's something to be said about hot tag energy. Some workers that's all they bring and you're just not getting that going solo dolo.

Sept 30, 2024 3:17:08 GMT Big Pete said:

I feel like we had an opportunity to see what D'Lo would look like with a main event push and he just wasn't cut out for the spot. '03 TNA exposed that while he could hang with the main event, he just didn't have the charisma or the in-ring ability to match it. 20 years later, what does he bring that the other 'tippy top' guys don't have?

I think Shamrock and Owen are the only two guys who would have been better off had they come around later. The rest of your X-Pacs, Hardcore Hollys,Billy Gunns, Tests, Al Snows etc. were only going to get pushed so far.

Agreed. And that's coming from a guy who loved 1998 D'Lo to the point where I seriously thought he was going to follow in Rock's footsteps as the Nation's next main event breakout star. I've posted about this before! But nowadays I think he had a ceiling. The Droz incident hurts him even if JR isn't writing "D'Lo needs to lose some weight" in every single Ross Report for 3 years. Heck, I was still pretty high on D'Lo as late as 2002! Remember booking him to go over Eddie in a Frog Splash feud when I fantasy booked the early brand split because midcard 4 life Eddie is OBVIOUSLY not going over RVD for the IC. No no no. RVD is getting a yearlong run to make the IC Title great again as a consolation prize for WWF being big babies who are too cowardly go all the way with him. Anyway, 2002 me still had D'Lo > Eddie. Whether impressive for D'Lo or another case of me being a dummy is entirely up to you.

Similar deal with Billy. He's a tag team specialist who also specializes in having cool themes. There's nothing wrong with that! Not everybody can be a main eventer. D'Lo & Billy were, at their best, valued midcarders capable of enhancing a show. Major difference between the two is I NEVER bought Billy as a potential top guy. KOTR Billy was yucky even to 1999 me. Heck, I didn't even like Billy until late 2000-early 2001 when he was already on the way down. Only then did he finally click with me.

EDIT: About a year ago I heard Bruce Prichard say Billy Gunn had really bad asthma and would get winded easily. Just another reason why he was suited to being a tag team specialist. Even most Billy Gunn detractors will grudgingly admit he was a good hot tag. 

DX did not have good luck with asthma. Waltman is also asthmatic and would have inhalers hidden under the ring lol. (Not DX, but ditto Batista).

Oct 5, 2024 5:15:10 GMT sting said:

DX did not have good luck with asthma. Waltman is also asthmatic and would have inhalers hidden under the ring lol. (Not DX, but ditto Batista).

Duuuuuuuuuuuude what if suck it was just a reference to the KID!

Oct 5, 2024 5:15:10 GMT sting said:

DX did not have good luck with asthma. Waltman is also asthmatic and would have inhalers hidden under the ring lol. (Not DX, but ditto Batista).

I was not aware of that. Didn't even learn about Billy's asthma until fairly recently. Makes me wonder what other wrestlers worked through an ailment...
==========
I was thinking, and not for the first time given I was very much aware of it in real time, about Diesel losing at 7 PPVs in a row from late 95-early 96. Has any other main event level wrestler suffered through 7 PPV losses in a row? Heck has any other wrestler period lost at 7 PPVs in a row? I'm curious. But probably not curious enough to actually investigate. Here are the magnificent seven...

vs. Bulldog- IYH October
vs. Bret- Survivor Series
vs. Owen- IYH December (Hart Foundation sweep, baby! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. You love to see it.)
Royal Rumble (Diesel was last man eliminated, making him the biggest loser of them all)
vs. Bret- IYH February
vs. Undertaker- Wrestlemania
vs. Michaels- IYH April
==========
Speaking of that era, there was a show, probably Survivor Series or IYH December, where JR mentions it being Bret's 41st time wrestling on PPV. Just about blew my young(ish) mind. Bret Hart, truly the Cal Ripken Jr. of WWF. Of course, we were rapidly entering into a period where 41 PPV appearances would no longer be anything special. That would soon be less than 4 years of work for a top guy. But at that time, in that moment, it made Bret out to be this grizzled badass veteran Ironman.

About a month ago I came across this interesting article ringthedamnbell.wordpress.com/2024/09/03/no-funny-business-the-story-of-the-scrapped-wcw-sitcom/ chronicling Bischoff's idea to create a wrestling sitcom inspired by Saved By The Bell. SBTB creator Peter Engel was even attached to the project. The idea was to sign a bunch of young indie guys who would play high school students by day and wrestlers at night.

Shane Helms, Shannon Moore, Christian York, Joey Matthews, Jamie Noble, Jimmy Yang, and Shark Boy were signed for the project. I marked out for the bolded because for 25 years I remembered attending a "farewell to York & Matthews" MCW show when they signed with WCW. I also remembered York & Matthews farewell shows when they signed with ECW & WWF. All of these happened within a year of each other. Late 90s indie wrestling was wild with Y&M, Devon Storm, Christopher Daniels, etc. always signing, or rumored to be this close to signing with any one of the Big 3. Anyway, over the past 20 years or so I've never been able to find proof of Y&M signing with WCW. Now I never seriously doubted myself. I knew it happened. Wasn't a fever dream. I was at their farewell show! But it is nice to finally find definitive proof. Also worth noting I thought Matthews might have been this guy Jim S. from my high school the first time I saw him live. There was quite the resemblance. So he'd have been a believable high school student had the show gone through. Heck, same era Shannon Moore probably could have passed for a middle schooler lol.

The project was scrapped when Bischoff was relieved of his duties soon after coming up with the idea. York & Matthews were let go while the rest of that contingent got some polishing in the Power Plant before making it to WCW tv.

Had the show gone through it would have flopped. While it sounds sacrilegious today, SBTB was dead in 1999. That whole SBTB style was hopelessly… out of style (did anybody watch more than 5 minutes of those awful SBTB spinoffs?) while still being about a decade away from having nostalgia appeal. The WCW Sitcom would have immediately been written off as another example of Wrestlecrap by the masses before gaining a vocal internet cult following years later. 

Wait a minute, was that the same idea as Mat Rats or was this another attempt at a TV show?

ringthedamnbell.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/wasted-youth-the-failure-of-mat-rats/#more-8519

It would never have been sustainable, but as a bingeable 240p YouTube series with a few memorable Beyond The Mat esque segments, it would have been worth it's weight in gold!

Even though they didn't wrestle there, if you had have told me York and Matthews had signed with WCW circa 2001, I would have believed you. There were so many guys like EZ Money, Kid Kash, Chris Daniels, Sonny 'Don't Look At My Ass' Siaki associated with the company that it didn't seem like a stretch.

I always wondered what the WCW roster could have looked like in 2001/02. How would the Magnificent Seven angle wrap up? Which wrestlers would likely defect to the fed regardless? Who sticks around? Does WCW end up becoming TNA regardless or does it stay the same? How do you repackage WCW and find it's branding?

The first thing that comes to mind is that in 2001, Eddie Guerrero returns and you can essentially replicate his indie run in WCW.

I feel like The Giant could have saved WCW if anyone could book with some sense and a modicum of vision for the future.

Oct 8, 2024 6:41:22 GMT Big Pete said:

Wait a minute, was that the same idea as Mat Rats or was this another attempt at a TV show?

ringthedamnbell.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/wasted-youth-the-failure-of-mat-rats/#more-8519

Another attempt. Interesting to see Bisch go right back to the 'young boy wrestler' idea. Sleazy E must have been convinced there was money there.

Even though they didn't wrestle there, if you had have told me York and Matthews had signed with WCW circa 2001, I would have believed you.

Funny you mention that...

There were so many guys like EZ Money, Kid Kash, Chris Daniels, Sonny 'Don't Look At My Ass' Siaki associated with the company that it didn't seem like a stretch.

The latest Markyd video goes into this. I had forgotten all about Mr. Don't Look At My Ass being a latter-day WCW guy. Chris Harris was another future TNA staple kicking around their undercard. Corino, RVD, Road Dogg, Lawler & The Kat were a few other big names looking to come in. Corino would have been a valuable midcard heel for them. I see him as an RTC era Stevie Richards type of wrestler/manager heat magnet. RVD is a guy you can build around. Road Dogg is an interesting case in that he was hugely over in 98-99 before falling hard in 2000 and shockingly getting future endeavored in early 01. Still, he had name value, the gift of gab, and incredibly was still only in his early 30s. Lawler would have been a great get for them. He can do commentary and the occasional angle/legends match. And of course, nowadays it would take every bit of willpower I have to refrain from spending half a year building to Lawler dethroning Steiner for the WCW Championship at Starrcade 01. Or better yet, the renamed LAWLERMANIA in December 01.

Does WCW end up becoming TNA regardless or does it stay the same?

Yep. Think it's inevitable. TNA really was WCW 2.0 in so many ways.

I always wondered what the WCW roster could have looked like in 2001/02. How would the Magnificent Seven angle wrap up? Which wrestlers would likely defect to the fed regardless? Who sticks around? How do you repackage WCW and find it's branding?

Grr. Thanks a lot. Now you have me going through my yearly temptation to do a Saving WCW fanfic. Tell ya what. I'm going to remain pretty busy 'til November and certainly won't be writing anything in depth this month, but I may tinker around with it (again) in my downtime and come back with a new fanfic project in November.

It's something I've toyed around with on and off ever since reading a 'Saving WCW' fanfic on DVDVR around 2002 where the poster's big idea to save WCW was... a Savage/Douglas feud in 2001! Savage/Douglas in 95-97? Yeah, ok. I can buy that as an upper card, second from the top feud. But in 2001? No way, man, Get outta here with that nonsense. So, this egomaniac who hadn't even watched WCW in 5 years, thought I could do better. My big idea was a predictable one- build to a big Goldberg/S. Steiner match at Starrcade 01. Ahh screw it. I can't resist. Here are some other ideas I remember having over the years...

*USA Network picks up WCW in this universe
-Flair vs. Jarrett for control of the Horsemen. Delusional "New Nature Boy" JJ wins at Starrcade 01 and leads the New Horsemen while Flair goes to WWF. JJ's Horsemen are...
-JJ, Steve Corino and the tag team of CW Anderson & Simon Blanchard. 
-Sometime in 2002 Corino usurps JJ to take over leadership of the Horsemen. Shades of the Sith, brother. This is a brand new idea.
-Mega Powers vs. Outsiders at Starrcade 2001. Losers Leave Town (and so do the winners). Hogan & Outsiders go to WWF. Actually, now I'm tempted to keep Savage around just to run a Savage/Douglas MIDCARD program lol. 
-Sting/O'Haire at Starrcade 01 with Sting going over (I was never an O'Haire guy)
-Rest of the Natural Born Thrillers mire in low card purgatory. Yes, even my guy Chuck.
-Never had any big plans for my other guy Luger either, though he would be treated better than the Thrillers based on name value alone.
-Starrcade 01 would also feature Booker/Storm for the US Title, DDP/Kanyon in a final showdown grudge match, and Sabu/Awesome for the Hardcore Title.
-Brian Christopher & Road Dogg as a tag team called Attitude
-Disco & Buff as an 'annoying' heel tag team once Buff/Luger runs its course. The gimmick being Disco & Buff represent the purest form of WCW.
-Rey gets his mask back at some point and now I have an idea how. Just realized Rey vs. 2003 TNA jerk heel Kid Kash would have been a sweet little feud. Book it, Gabe.
-Bring back Juvy & Psicosis for Cruiserweight depth. AJ gets a slow burn push a la Kidman a few years earlier. Bring in Daniels too. Super Crazy? Sure. Why not? And you've still got Three Count, Jung Dragons, Kidman, Chavo, etc. I wouldn't go ROH/X Division crazy right away for realism reasons, but those guys would trickle in through the years.
-I'd keep a door open to Japan. Remember bringing in Triple Crown Champ Muta to defend a few times a year on PPV for a little something different.
-RVD was never part of my plans in the past. Having 2001 Rob is too much of a cheat code. But I'm obviously pushing him to the moon if I have him. He's my top guy by 2002. Hopefully he can avoid the law for a few years in this world.
-Bob Sapp is another potential main event player if I decide to bring him in. 
-The ship had sailed on Scott Norton (& Ice Train) as potential main eventers here in the States, but you know I'm pushing them at least a little bit if I bring them in lol.
-Last time I thought about this (fanfic draft time) my newest idea was to resurrect the TV Title with Bagwell, Kanyon, Disco, the aforementioned Ice Train, and La Parka getting runs with the strap. Maybe I'd do the SMW 'Beat the Champ' deal. This would be ideal for a B Show like 95-97 Saturday Night or 98-00 Thunder.
-I'd send RW Animal & Rick Steiner back to their home planets. Make them agents if necessary to placate their political allies. There is some value in these guys and the legendary tag teams they were a part of, but they must be used sparingly- maybe one big tag team program a year. Same goes for Dusty Rhodes. Stevie Ray is like a lesser version of Animal & Rick.
EDIT: Ken Shamrock is another potential get. Even as a part timer, a well-built Goldberg/Shamrock match could have been money. 
EDIT #2: Did Sable still have a drop of drawing power left? Let's find out! Can even bring Marc Mero in to renew his seemingly endless feud with DDP.
And where there's Sable, why not a Chyna? We could give her a shot later in 2001 to see if she has any gas left in the tank. 
-Jerry Lynn comes in with a Cruiserweight push* once he leaves WWF...

The first thing that comes to mind is that in 2001, Eddie Guerrero returns and you can essentially replicate his indie run in WCW.

*Speaking of "Cruiserweight pushes," I distinctly remember that being Eddie's role the first time I did this back in 2002 lol. Just as boneheaded in its way as saving the company with a Savage/Douglas feud on top. Maybe even more so? Talk about missing the boat on a wrestler... 2002 me had Eddie losing a midcard feud to D'Lo after spending the bulk of 2001 slumming it back in the WCW Cruiserweight division.

Obviously, Eddie would be a huge get for a WCW reboot, BUT I'm still not sure I'd pull the trigger on Eddie to WCW because wasn't Eddie loyal to WWF? Didn't Vince pay for his rehab or say something like "we'll have a spot for you when you're ready to return?" I seem to remember hearing something like that back in the day.

Anyway, see you in November.....maybe.

Oct 8, 2024 16:56:47 GMT sting said:

I feel like The Giant could have saved WCW if anyone could book with some sense and a modicum of vision for the future.

You and me both, brother. There's an alternate universe pwcom.proboards.com/thread/4548/rebooking-championships where's the top guy prior to the rise of Goldberg.
========
Forgot to put Kanyon over in yesterday's post. He was a sleeper MVP candidate in latter-day WCW for his work behind the scenes. He was the guy Bischoff tapped to recruit talent for Matrats By The Bell. He was the guy WCW picked to train all those celebrities. He was always at the Power Plant working with the young up and comers there. In short, he was just a good guy to have around. 

D'oh. Forgot to mention the one Hail Mary that could have potentially made WCW a contender again. We're just hoping to stop the bleeding and right the ship at first. Do that for 15 months and then shoot your shot with this guy...



It's June 2002. Austin is on the outs with WWF. It's a long shot, but you do whatever it takes to get him. This is your best chance to make WCW great again. Offer him a limited schedule. Offer 7 figures per match. Offer creative control.  Offer a stake in the promotion. Offer the big money match with his buddy Goldberg. 4 years too late? Flair/Hogan in 91 rather than 87? Maybe. But you take that shot. Have Bischoff admit he was wrong and then Austin can stun him and have Bisch kiss his ass on live tv. Play to his ego. "Hogan made WWF into a juggernaut. Then he left and did the same for WCW. Now he's back in a WWE that is floundering without you. YOU exceeded Hogan in WWF. Now you can exceed him in WCW to become the undisputed GOAT. Surely you want to end up bigger than Hogan, right?"

This is admittedly a pipe dream. I have no idea what Austin's contract status was. Goldberg, friend of Austin or not, isn't the guy you want to be wrestling when your neck is hanging on by a thread. There's also Austin's well-documented issues with Bischoff. But it's a shot worth taking. Getting Austin for even just one match would create massive buzz while giving WCW its strongest ratings and biggest buyrate in years.

"if they could just hold on a little longer"

Fuck dude that's a fan fic concept if there ever was.

Jericho has said on at least one occasion that if he knew what WCW was being sold for that he would have bought it. Given all the goofy sh*t Jericho has done, which has probably developed more of a stink to it than it deserves because of his AEW run, I wonder what a Jericho-led WCW would have looked like.

Oct 13, 2024 8:18:44 GMT sting said:

Jericho has said on at least one occasion that if he knew what WCW was being sold for that he would have bought it. 

Never heard that before but it makes sense. I feel like a lot of wrestling personalities would have attempted to purchase WCW if they knew how cheap it was going for. Vince really did swoop in to get a bargain.
==========
Was thinking, and not for the first time, about how Luger seemed like an ideal WWF guy and Bret a perfect NWA/WCW guy, yet the opposite turned out to be true. Luger thrived in NWA/WCW, Bret in WWF, while both struggled to an extent in the promotion they seemed tailor made for. Very strange.

Feel obligated to say that while $4 million was a ridiculously low price for WCW to be sold, that is significantly more money than Chris Jericho had lying around in March 2001 (his then WWF contract was $450K a year), and as Eric Bischoff was learning at the time, there wasn't exactly a long line of investors looking to fill out the rest, so further evidence that it's best to ignore most things Chris Jericho says.

Writing about an ECW match tonight got me thinking about The Guy With An ECW Tattoo. This gentleman was a skinny, seedy looking fellow pictured in either the 1996 PWI Almanac, or a magazine that came out around the same time. I believe he had a mustache and mullet but don't hold me to that. What you can hold me to is he had ECW tattooed on his arm. The article in question, or maybe the caption (you can't expect me to remember every detail of a near 30 year old publication), referenced the cult-like devotion ECW fans had to their favorite promotion. You have to realize this was before practically everybody and their grandmother had a tattoo. So, yes, seeing a guy with a tattoo of their favorite wrestling promotion (and a minor league one at that!) was WILD to 1996 me. "He's Hardcore! He's Hardcore!" Whereas seeing such a thing nowadays would constitute only a mildly interesting curiosity.

Anyway, now I'm off to scour the archives in case this pic was from a mag rather than the PWI Almanac. Will share pic if I find it.

Today I learned that the Saudis were asking for dead wrestlers like Yokozuna and Ultimate Warrior to appear on their PLEs.

Either the super rich don't understand limitations to money or they simply stopped watching after a point.

Saudis working on that Mass Effect technology that the Illusive Man used to bring Shepard back maybe. 🤣

Incredible chess move here by Arnold Schwarzenegger on poor Jesse Ventura. Arnold really could have been a serial killer with his psychological warfare prowess, but thankfully used his powers for (mostly) good instead.

Oct 17, 2024 5:36:44 GMT sting said:

Today I learned that the Saudis were asking for dead wrestlers like Yokozuna and Ultimate Warrior to appear on their PLEs.

I’m going to go to one of the Saudi shows one year, plenty of people can say they went to WrestleMania but how many westerners went to crown jewel habibi?

Posted some old excerpts from Jericho's book, where he refers to AWA and WWF as "leagues," which reminded me that I hated that term when I was a child. If someone referred to WCW as "the other league" or ECW as "another wrestling league," I would silently be fuming for reasons I can't even explain right now. I just don't know. It seems innocuous. I think I had some pedantic preference that they were "promotions" not "leagues."

Is there anyone else here that had this bizarre hang up? Or were you all league guys? Which I assure you, is a perfectly acceptable thing to be now that I'm no longer an insane child.

^Excellent questions. Really had to rack my brain as this is not something I ever put much thought into. Best I can remember I flip flopped between league, promotion, fed, and federation. Honestly feel like I started as a fed(eration) guy before using the term interchangeably with league for a while. Gut feeling is I came to promotion late. I could be wrong about all this! The fed(eration) obviously comes from the F in the world's biggest wrestling promotion. I do distinctly remember my Pennsylvania cousins using league. They were also Roddy Roddy Piper kids. Kilgore over there giving them the death glare right now. And my brother was definitely a fed(eration) guy at some point in his life. Also worth noting it was common for me and my colleagues to say "Wanna do a league?" or simply "League?" during our wrestling figure heyday. Heck, I STILL refer to them as wrestling figure leagues. Though all real life leagues/feds have been promotions to me since at least the mid-late 90s.