Mar 5, 2022 22:56:47 GMT c said:

Senate today set a red line limit that was bipartisan that the US will not engage in hostilities with Russia in the Ukraine. Which means NATO will not intervene and they are on their own. A nuke may revise things, but neither the GOP nor Dems care enough to get the US involved ourselves.

Exceptions are the Trumpers who are split 50/50 on supporting Putin and going to war with Putin.  

Which is exactly what the world knew to be the case and I posted several pages ago.

Putin is way out on a limb and he seems. Desperate, today he claimed that sanctions are an act of war and has singled out the UK as an enemy... Probably because they have left the EU and are isolated, they are a useful boogie man.

US congress rarely in recent days works together. This sends a message too that Biden cannot pressured since declarations of war by congress can be filibustered. If congress was pro-war, they could vote the US into the conflict without the president. So congressional attitude does matter.

This is also a go ahead to Putin to use the bombers.

Mar 5, 2022 23:40:56 GMT iNCY said:

Mar 5, 2022 22:56:47 GMT c said:

Senate today set a red line limit that was bipartisan that the US will not engage in hostilities with Russia in the Ukraine. Which means NATO will not intervene and they are on their own. A nuke may revise things, but neither the GOP nor Dems care enough to get the US involved ourselves.

Exceptions are the Trumpers who are split 50/50 on supporting Putin and going to war with Putin.  

Which is exactly what the world knew to be the case and I posted several pages ago.

Putin is way out on a limb and he seems. Desperate, today he claimed that sanctions are an act of war and has singled out the UK as an enemy... Probably because they have left the EU and are isolated, they are a useful boogie man.

Which is extremely weird, considering how much leverage Russia and Russian Oligarchs have over people serving in our current cabinet.

I read an interesting comment written by a USA citizen.

I recall how scared so many of us were in October of 1962 when President Kennedy confronted Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's attempted deployment of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Kennedy let the Soviet's know with a naval "quarantine" against Cuba that under no circumstances would he allow the USSR to deploy nuclear warheads that close to Washington, D.C. Had Khrushchev not backed down, it would have meant war, likely nuclear war.

Today, President Putin saw the specter of likely soon-to-be NATO Ukraine harboring NATO forces, including nuclear and anti-nuclear missiles on their border with Russia, deployed way too close to Moscow. He warned Ukraine, but Ukrainian President Zelenskyy continued stating publicly that he wanted Ukraine to join NATO, which most of the country supported. President Putin was not going to wait for Ukraine to be part of NATO when any action he took against Ukraine to prevent missile deployment so visibly close to Moscow would require NATO nations to join in defense of Ukraine, in what would likely become an all-out nuclear war. So he took the only non-nuclear option he believed could deter NATO from accepting Ukraine: neutralize Ukraine's military so that NATO would not want to deploy missile's there, as without a Ukrainian military presence, there would be no security for the NATO missiles. Tragically, the ground war Putin was resigned to employ is destroying Ukraine, because unlike Khrushchev, Zelenskyy did not back down.

There are no good guys and bad guys here, despite what media conspiracy theory and propaganda may be telling us. There are just people, and their leaders, who do not want nuclear missiles positioned so visibly close to their capitols and their home, which perhaps implies nations still lack an adequate form of quick defense against a close proximity nuclear attack. Sadly, Russia's taking of Crimea in 2014 for the sake of a Black Sea naval base contributed to the consensus in Ukraine that they needed NATO for protection. And here we are.

Food for thought.

PW is much smarter than me when it comes to history and politics. Is this a load of bullshit or is there some truth?

Mar 5, 2022 23:50:29 GMT Jake said:

Mar 5, 2022 23:40:56 GMT iNCY said:

Which is exactly what the world knew to be the case and I posted several pages ago.

Putin is way out on a limb and he seems. Desperate, today he claimed that sanctions are an act of war and has singled out the UK as an enemy... Probably because they have left the EU and are isolated, they are a useful boogie man.

Which is extremely weird, considering how much leverage Russia and Russian Oligarchs have over people serving in our current cabinet.

You don't risk a skirmish with volatile nuclear powers, it's called a nuclear deterrent for a reason.

Mar 6, 2022 0:06:33 GMT Emperor said:

I read an interesting comment written by a USA citizen.

I recall how scared so many of us were in October of 1962 when President Kennedy confronted Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's attempted deployment of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Kennedy let the Soviet's know with a naval "quarantine" against Cuba that under no circumstances would he allow the USSR to deploy nuclear warheads that close to Washington, D.C. Had Khrushchev not backed down, it would have meant war, likely nuclear war.

Today, President Putin saw the specter of likely soon-to-be NATO Ukraine harboring NATO forces, including nuclear and anti-nuclear missiles on their border with Russia, deployed way too close to Moscow. He warned Ukraine, but Ukrainian President Zelenskyy continued stating publicly that he wanted Ukraine to join NATO, which most of the country supported. President Putin was not going to wait for Ukraine to be part of NATO when any action he took against Ukraine to prevent missile deployment so visibly close to Moscow would require NATO nations to join in defense of Ukraine, in what would likely become an all-out nuclear war. So he took the only non-nuclear option he believed could deter NATO from accepting Ukraine: neutralize Ukraine's military so that NATO would not want to deploy missile's there, as without a Ukrainian military presence, there would be no security for the NATO missiles. Tragically, the ground war Putin was resigned to employ is destroying Ukraine, because unlike Khrushchev, Zelenskyy did not back down.

There are no good guys and bad guys here, despite what media conspiracy theory and propaganda may be telling us. There are just people, and their leaders, who do not want nuclear missiles positioned so visibly close to their capitols and their home, which perhaps implies nations still lack an adequate form of quick defense against a close proximity nuclear attack. Sadly, Russia's taking of Crimea in 2014 for the sake of a Black Sea naval base contributed to the consensus in Ukraine that they needed NATO for protection. And here we are.

Food for thought.

PW is much smarter than me when it comes to history and politics. Is this a load of bullshit or is there some truth?

I 100% agree with this, all I would add is that Russia's actions have shown why Ukraine sought to join NATO in the first place.
The only other difference is that the deployment of missiles in Cuba was an offensive action and Ukraine joining NATO was a defensive one.

Apart from that the only real take out from the situation is how poorly Putin has executed his strategy.

Separate to this, it's odd how we always need to have heels and faces in every conflict, the truth is that people suck and power corrupts.

Mar 6, 2022 0:06:33 GMT Emperor said:

I read an interesting comment written by a USA citizen.

I recall how scared so many of us were in October of 1962 when President Kennedy confronted Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's attempted deployment of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Kennedy let the Soviet's know with a naval "quarantine" against Cuba that under no circumstances would he allow the USSR to deploy nuclear warheads that close to Washington, D.C. Had Khrushchev not backed down, it would have meant war, likely nuclear war.

Today, President Putin saw the specter of likely soon-to-be NATO Ukraine harboring NATO forces, including nuclear and anti-nuclear missiles on their border with Russia, deployed way too close to Moscow. He warned Ukraine, but Ukrainian President Zelenskyy continued stating publicly that he wanted Ukraine to join NATO, which most of the country supported. President Putin was not going to wait for Ukraine to be part of NATO when any action he took against Ukraine to prevent missile deployment so visibly close to Moscow would require NATO nations to join in defense of Ukraine, in what would likely become an all-out nuclear war. So he took the only non-nuclear option he believed could deter NATO from accepting Ukraine: neutralize Ukraine's military so that NATO would not want to deploy missile's there, as without a Ukrainian military presence, there would be no security for the NATO missiles. Tragically, the ground war Putin was resigned to employ is destroying Ukraine, because unlike Khrushchev, Zelenskyy did not back down.

There are no good guys and bad guys here, despite what media conspiracy theory and propaganda may be telling us. There are just people, and their leaders, who do not want nuclear missiles positioned so visibly close to their capitols and their home, which perhaps implies nations still lack an adequate form of quick defense against a close proximity nuclear attack. Sadly, Russia's taking of Crimea in 2014 for the sake of a Black Sea naval base contributed to the consensus in Ukraine that they needed NATO for protection. And here we are.

Food for thought.

PW is much smarter than me when it comes to history and politics. Is this a load of bullshit or is there some truth?

It's 'justification'... not reality. Ukraine attempting to join NATO was a defensive move to hinder any possible, or as we've seen, likely invasion or threat from Russia. Does that mean, NATO forces and weapons in Ukraine? Maybe.. probably. And rightfully so.. the villain is Russia. There's no way of spinning that. They were the villain, prior to any of this. Are there Russia weapons in Belarus or Chechnya? Likely. So..

The Germans had a similar thought process prior to WWI, the threat of 'encirclement' was enough to broker a policy, stated they'd attack before being attacked. This drove its foreign policy. Meaning: do to others, before they do it to you. How'd that work out, 108 years later we're still reeling the impact of it.

Like 2022, in 1914 Europe was divided into two rival systems. Today we have NATO/EU v Russian influence. History repeating itself.

Mar 6, 2022 0:06:33 GMT Emperor said:

I read an interesting comment written by a USA citizen.

I recall how scared so many of us were in October of 1962 when President Kennedy confronted Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's attempted deployment of nuclear missiles in Cuba. Kennedy let the Soviet's know with a naval "quarantine" against Cuba that under no circumstances would he allow the USSR to deploy nuclear warheads that close to Washington, D.C. Had Khrushchev not backed down, it would have meant war, likely nuclear war.

Today, President Putin saw the specter of likely soon-to-be NATO Ukraine harboring NATO forces, including nuclear and anti-nuclear missiles on their border with Russia, deployed way too close to Moscow. He warned Ukraine, but Ukrainian President Zelenskyy continued stating publicly that he wanted Ukraine to join NATO, which most of the country supported. President Putin was not going to wait for Ukraine to be part of NATO when any action he took against Ukraine to prevent missile deployment so visibly close to Moscow would require NATO nations to join in defense of Ukraine, in what would likely become an all-out nuclear war. So he took the only non-nuclear option he believed could deter NATO from accepting Ukraine: neutralize Ukraine's military so that NATO would not want to deploy missile's there, as without a Ukrainian military presence, there would be no security for the NATO missiles. Tragically, the ground war Putin was resigned to employ is destroying Ukraine, because unlike Khrushchev, Zelenskyy did not back down.

There are no good guys and bad guys here, despite what media conspiracy theory and propaganda may be telling us. There are just people, and their leaders, who do not want nuclear missiles positioned so visibly close to their capitols and their home, which perhaps implies nations still lack an adequate form of quick defense against a close proximity nuclear attack. Sadly, Russia's taking of Crimea in 2014 for the sake of a Black Sea naval base contributed to the consensus in Ukraine that they needed NATO for protection. And here we are.

Food for thought.

PW is much smarter than me when it comes to history and politics. Is this a load of bullshit or is there some truth?

A kid I went to high school with felt that JFK was one of the worst presidents because he was willing to see the world destroyed to stand up to the USSR even if it meant nuclear war and considered Khrushchev a hero.  He now works in a GOP think tank.  

And yeah that is accurate.  To stop Ukraine from joining NATO, Putin needed to take them before they joined.  That said it is weird to fault Ukraine for this invasion.  It is basically, saying if they just let Russia control them as a puppet this would never have happened.  Kind of shitty logic.  Ukraine is an independent country and can make its own decisions, and should have the right to freely make them without asking Putin for permission.  

Besides, the US and NATO do not need to be in the Ukraine to nuke moscow.  

The main point that other reply misses, is not that Ukraine wants to join NATO, but they want to be European and join the EU.  The country has grown extremely liberal with the newer generations not wanting to be soviets anymore or part of the Russian bloc.  Putin will not tolerate this, and armed rebels in several parts of the Ukraine, leading to the Crimea annex and the 8 year war that preceded this with the Russian separatists states.  There has been wonky shit with the elections as well, and Putin may have helped his backers rig an election to put them power despite being the minority.  At least that was the justification to ban the communist party in Ukraine and throw out the former president during the Kiev riots.  

Hilarious. The reason for the convoy delay was revealed. Kiev destroyed a major reservoir basically to turn an area they would cross through to mud. Three tank / mech divisions entirely dead in their tracks to the mud pit they created.

Appreciate the responses, very informative, thanks. Perhaps Ukraine's actions triggered Putin to start this war, but using that to paint Ukraine as the instigator is absurd. Putin has no right to control Ukraine, but he feels as though he does.

I have awoken to the news that our PM has a '6-point' plan to solve the Ukraine/Russia crisis.


Hmmmm..... He's been wanting his "Churchill/Thatcher War Moment" for some time, and this is the perfect chance for him to assume the mantle of handling the whole thing.


All I can see on this plan is that he wants world leaders to step up on humanitarian aid for Ukraine, and he is set to welcome a number of foreign leaders to No 10 this week.



It also seems that Russia is set to attack Odessa

Fun solutions from the GOP making news as they struggle to find a good way to turn Ukraine against Biden.

Trump suggests flying planes with Chinese symbols over Russia and bombing Moscow. He is only joking of course that kidder.

Trumpers are fighting now over whether or not the US should assassinate Putin publicly or privately after Graham let it slip that is of course an option an America always considers. Of course you are not supposed to say it in public, which he did.

Manchin, who says the US cannot afford to spend anymore due to inflation, wants to enforce the no-fly zone claiming it will not lead to war. I guess his plan is to gently ease down the Russian fighters. Moderates are all about keeping things on the table it seems. Again conversations best left to the CIA and military and not Senators whos words will be broadcast internationally.

Biden remains firm, unless the situation changes (read Nuke) the US will not engage in war with Russia. So naturally some in the GOP want to go to war now forgotten last week they claimed Russia was an ally. Opposition party logic FTW.


On the Russian front, things are still weird.

Russia demanding Iran does not take a new nuclear deal with the US, as it could hurt their trade with Russia. They want Russian sanctions being lifted as part of the deal Iran takes. Nice try I guess.

People detailing the supply chain crisis that Russian military is facing are pointing that insanity that is the Russian supply line is all supplied from a commercial, not military, source. And it turns off that they lack the ability to actually do logistics and supply. The trucks were old which is why so many broke down, with dead batteries, broken engine parts or tire damage.

www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/01/14/the-russian-army-depends-on-civilians-to-keep-it-supplied-this-could-be-a-problem-in-ukraine/?sh=389354fc72e3

It gets a bit worse in that their solution was to just sent in more trucks to replace the broken down trucks. Except they ran out of trucks. So now they are relying on SUVs, Mini-Vans and pick-up trucks.

And yesterday Putin did not get the memo that the Stingers got to the Ukraine. They shot down over a dozen aircrafts that were documented on twitter, and likely dozens more that were not. Stingers tend to be pretty easy to use since the missiles lock on to a heat signature.

Also reported that Putin is moving Russia back to communist policy by demanding stores start to ration what people can purchase to avoid hoarding. This was very common in the communist days and we had to send packages to the Ukraine for our relatives as sometimes staples would disappear off shelves do to rationing.

Right now claiming they are just implementing price control and rationing of "socially important goods," but there is a history here of this, and they claim that widespread hoarding has forced them to do this. What they are not mentioning is this is not because of hoarding, but the effects of the sanctions killing Russian businesses. Likely the state in the next few weeks will take a heavier hand to try to keep some level of commerce alive as sanctions cripple most normal business owners who now cannot rise prices, or afford to sell goods at pre-sanction prices.

Russia knows this whole thing is now totally out of their control, so everyday they lay out more generalize conditions that would justify their troops accidentally blowing up another countries shit and avoiding having NATO storm Russia itself.

Got to love it. Ukraine asks for Russia to be disconnected from the internet and people complain about freedom. Now Putin will disconnect the entire country from the global internet and make Russian internet it's own system firewalled from the outside world. Likely disconnect will happen next week.

In a move I am sure the GOP will want to enforce in the US, Putin signed a law that criminalizes anyone reporting or or posting online "fake news" about the Ukraine special defensive operation to stop nazification. Anyone who reports on an invasion, war, missile strikes, Russian military losses or posts any pictures or videos faces 15 years in prison.

Trump read about this and got the biggest boner he had since he had a garbanzos bean on his face last time he was in Russia.

NATO gonna give the Ukraine US fighter jets via Poland.  Sounds like Poland gonna give Ukraine the fighters they have, then the US will send Poland a replacement set so TECHINCALLY, we did not give Ukraine jets ourselves.

Well war is wrapping up now. Russian aircrafts are raining out of the sky. The Stingers are lighting them up. Once Ukraine clears the skies they can bomb away the artillery with the fighters we are sending them. Putin lost well over 100 aircrafts so far and it was a massacre last night with dozens going down.

If Putin is going to nuke it will be soon.

After "accidentally" firing on people fleeing twice, Russia is saying THIS TIME they will allow people to flee on of the cities being destroyed. Rumors on ukraine twitter is they mined at least one of the proposed routes though.  Sure Russia will claim it was another accident.  

Mar 7, 2022 7:46:16 GMT c said:

NATO gonna give the Ukraine US fighter jets via Poland.  Sounds like Poland gonna give Ukraine the fighters they have, then the US will send Poland a replacement set so TECHINCALLY, we did not give Ukraine jets ourselves.

I love this strategy, if I was the US I would attach enormous false moustaches to the planes so nobody recognises them.

It appears the "Third round" of peace talks between Russia and Ukraine have yielded no positive results.

Ukraine's President Zelensky is set to give a speech at the House of Commons tomorrow, which I believe is a first that a foreign leader has spoken in the UK parliamentary house.

Obviously, by video link.

Mar 7, 2022 3:27:38 GMT c said:

In a move I am sure the GOP will want to enforce in the US, Putin signed a law that criminalizes anyone reporting or or posting online "fake news" about the Ukraine special defensive operation to stop nazification. Anyone who reports on an invasion, war, missile strikes, Russian military losses or posts any pictures or videos faces 15 years in prison.

Trump read about this and got the biggest boner he had since he had a garbanzos bean on his face last time he was in Russia.

Yeah especially since CNN ran out of Russia immediately after that law passed.

NYC put on SEVERE HIGH ALERT for cyber attack as per ABC NEWS.

Mar 7, 2022 21:12:51 GMT KING KID said:

NYC put on SEVERE HIGH ALERT for cyber attack as per ABC NEWS.

Oh no....anyway

Putin now is faced with a devil's bargain. He can save the Russian economy as their currency lost 50% of it's value in four days, but to do so, he will have to adopt the yuan as the official currency of Russia. The value of the yuan is soaring as banks are trying as fast as possible to swap all of their holdings in to rubles over.

Mar 7, 2022 21:25:44 GMT Jake said:

Mar 7, 2022 21:12:51 GMT KING KID said:

NYC put on SEVERE HIGH ALERT for cyber attack as per ABC NEWS.

Oh no....anyway

Deez eez Russia. We have invaded KING KID username. We vill cum for u next @jake

POSTSCRIPT: Feex u tag name

Well tomorrow will be interesting. After match of missile strike on a small market went viral. Blood everywhere with kids bleeding out, laying on their dead parents. In every war until you have the images people can pretend things do not exist. Doubt the news will air the video but once it goes viral they do not need to to talk about it.

This is awkward. Russia made a list of unfriendly countries. They included Taiwan on it.