Can't wait for when everyone's Call of Duty skills come into effect, and we're seeing 360 no scopes on the battlefield.

Putin and Macron agreed to try to secure ceasefire in eastern Ukraine.

The Leaders spoke on the phone for 105 minutes and the outcome suggests Russia might be willing to step back from the brink of invading Ukraine.

Sky News (here in the UK)

They're reporting that the US embassy in Russia have told Americans to have evacuation plans ready, with the threat (or the event of an attack) of Russian cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Something isn't right .. I thought the threat was against Ukraine, not Russia...

Well, I guess that's not as bad..

US wants it's people out of the Embassies as if we got to war with Russia they will no doubt capture them.

Reports are the invasion is a go. Just waiting for the military get final preparations together.

Feb 20, 2022 22:37:30 GMT jumbomask said:

I'm curious how the US and allies will respond. Do they declare war against Russia? This is monumental

No, they don't.
There is Zero reason to go to war with Russia from a Western perspective.
They have shown no desire to invade all of Europe
There are no oil fields in Ukraine.
Don't forget the US and the rest of the world have stood by and watched Yugoslavia and half of Africa descend into genocide and done nothing about it other than bleat at the UN.

Will this affect the mail order bride market? Is that still a thing?

Feb 20, 2022 22:55:04 GMT iNCY said:

Feb 20, 2022 22:37:30 GMT jumbomask said:

I'm curious how the US and allies will respond. Do they declare war against Russia? This is monumental

No, they don't.
There is Zero reason to go to war with Russia from a Western perspective.
They have shown no desire to invade all of Europe
There are no oil fields in Ukraine.
Don't forget the US and the rest of the world have stood by and watched Yugoslavia and half of Africa descend into genocide and done nothing about it other than bleat at the UN.

A literal, unofficial world war has waged in Africa for decades, yet the US does little, if nothing at all.

Why, because the US needs it's villain, so it can play the hero.

Feb 20, 2022 22:57:03 GMT @ness said:

Will this affect the mail order bride market? Is that still a thing?

It's Ukraine's number one export.

Feb 20, 2022 22:55:04 GMT iNCY said:

Feb 20, 2022 22:37:30 GMT jumbomask said:

I'm curious how the US and allies will respond. Do they declare war against Russia? This is monumental

No, they don't.
There is Zero reason to go to war with Russia from a Western perspective.
They have shown no desire to invade all of Europe
There are no oil fields in Ukraine.
Don't forget the US and the rest of the world have stood by and watched Yugoslavia and half of Africa descend into genocide and done nothing about it other than bleat at the UN.

While there is no hard alliance, there are loose alliances with EU and NATO.  Ukraine gets invaded it shows that these groups do not have the power to defend allies.  Likely EU nations will push on NATO to deal with it.  Sanctions will be used first, but they are weak and will be see as copout.  This is the first modern conflict since the rise of China, and we do not want to appear weak.  Stopping Putin here and now will check his ambition.  We let him win, he will move on to his next target, which is likely control of the Arctic seas.  

Interesting tweet someone dug out:

Feb 21, 2022 0:48:29 GMT jumbomask said:

Russia is surrounded by Nato, surely they don't want conflict. However if they do want conflict, the USA would look foolish to let them do as they please. It's an all around mess

They do want conflict.  Their goal is scale back NATO so they can reform the Soviet Union.  They want to roll back NATO to pre-2004 state, which would see Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland, among others, removed.  Then they wish to lock NATO so no new members could be added and demand that NATO's defense pact be non-binding and divisible to allow Russia to negotiate directly with the US for noninvolvement.   The final part is a key part of the negotiations between the US and Russia right now.  

As for the conflict, in Russia and on Fox News, the entire conflict is due to NATO aggression.  They claim Ukraine is framing them for attacks and that their deployment on the Ukraine borders is fake news.  They are not deployed for war, but conducting a training exercise they claim.  They have no ties to the Russian backed separatists in Ukraine they also claim.  And their media reports just this, along with the US alt-right news teams who use Russian state media for news.  As it was with Trump, Putin is always the victim, and he makes the Russia the victim of perpetual US aggression.  All the problems of Russia are due to US aggression dating back to the Cold War.

Putin is banking hard that the US will reply to physical aggression with force ourselves.  And for Putin, even two years of wars is worth it as it would almost certainly, result in Biden's defeat and Trump or a pro-Russian Republican taking office, throwing out a peace treaty and letting Russia do whatever they want.  He is also pushing hard to convince a Trump like president to leave NATO.  He may be able to convince Trump on a second term or DeSantis to sever ties, which will give Putin free reign in Europe.  

GOP wartime presidents are popular. It is deathblow for modern democrats. See Johnson for a great example. Dems were riding on high on Kennedy, then Johnson took over and we went into Vietnam.  Next election Humphrey, Johnson's VP won the nomination Democrats in Chicago rioted and Nixon easily defeated him.  War is never good for democrats.  Biden would be easily defeated by a warhawk with a military background.  Not that the GOP would run one, as they are too liberal for the GOP, but even Trump or DeSantis can win by calling Biden weak and saying they need a strong leader who can stand up to Russia like Trump did.

The main player is NATO.  They are all that matters really.  US controls them ultimately, so really comes down to how confident we are in the missile defense shield.  Missiles likely will head over Canada if they launched at the US, so as long as we are confident we can shoot them down, and the Russian hypersonics do not have the range they will need to hit the US we will pressure.  Of we are not confident, then we will flake and the Ukraine is fucked.  

The hypersonic missiles are the weapons that dictate modern war as the US currently has nothing to counter them.  They are just too fast and do not appear on radar.  Nukes are not even the concern, but getting hit with a of missile we cannot we cannot react to in time.  US only been attacked once in modern war, at Pearl Harbor, so psychologically, any attack on US soil will devastate American psyche.  

Feb 21, 2022 3:52:07 GMT c said:

GOP wartime presidents are popular. It is deathblow for modern democrats. See Johnson for a great example. Dems were riding on high on Kennedy, then Johnson took over and we went into Vietnam.  Next election Humphrey, Johnson's VP won the nomination Democrats in Chicago rioted and Nixon easily defeated him.  War is never good for democrats.  Biden would be easily defeated by a warhawk with a military background.  Not that the GOP would run one, as they are too liberal for the GOP, but even Trump or DeSantis can win by calling Biden weak and saying they need a strong leader who can stand up to Russia like Trump did.

The main player is NATO.  They are all that matters really.  US controls them ultimately, so really comes down to how confident we are in the missile defense shield.  Missiles likely will head over Canada if they launched at the US, so as long as we are confident we can shoot them down, and the Russian hypersonics do not have the range they will need to hit the US we will pressure.  Of we are not confident, then we will flake and the Ukraine is fucked.  

The hypersonic missiles are the weapons that dictate modern war as the US currently has nothing to counter them.  They are just too fast and do not appear on radar.  Nukes are not even the concern, but getting hit with a of missile we cannot we cannot react to in time.  US only been attacked once in modern war, at Pearl Harbor, so psychologically, any attack on US soil will devastate American psyche.  

The US can't counter hypersonic missiles, but it doesn't need them.
The US has the best stealth technology in the world, they can hit Russia from subs just off the coast or with stealth bombers, the hypersonic missle gives the same capability of a strike you cannot defend against.

The problem is until now the US could defend against nearly any conventional attack. We are not used to being in this place where a nuke could in theory hit us. And again, we do not take hits well. The panic that will happen if Russia does land a single strike on US soil would do far, far more damage than the missile itself.

US oddly enough does not really even use stealth anymore. Our new tactics is drones swarms. Send in a bunch of drones, with most being decoys, and several armed to hit targets. No need to risk a plane.

Our subs are all last resort IIRC. We only have 4 guided missile subs and 14 ballista subs. Far too valuable to risk if we do not have to. These are to be used to decapitation strikes mainly where we use rain warheads onto the military heart of a country to shut them down with one strike. It is very likely most of these are geared for nuclear war.

Most missiles come from our Destroyers. They are the home most of our modern guided missiles and getting upgraded with our new laser defense.

US intel has a Russia kill list. The invasion will be used as a cover for political assassinations within the Ukraine.  Likely this is the plan, kill key people in power, take the regions they want, then sue for peace with the condition they keep the separatists parts of the Ukraine for Russia.  

Putin delaying taking the Ukraine until he speaks to Biden.

Feb 21, 2022 5:33:56 GMT c said:

The problem is until now the US could defend against nearly any conventional attack. We are not used to being in this place where a nuke could in theory hit us. And again, we do not take hits well. The panic that will happen if Russia does land a single strike on US soil would do far, far more damage than the missile itself.

US oddly enough does not really even use stealth anymore. Our new tactics is drones swarms. Send in a bunch of drones, with most being decoys, and several armed to hit targets. No need to risk a plane.

Our subs are all last resort IIRC. We only have 4 guided missile subs and 14 ballista subs. Far too valuable to risk if we do not have to. These are to be used to decapitation strikes mainly where we use rain warheads onto the military heart of a country to shut them down with one strike. It is very likely most of these are geared for nuclear war.

Most missiles come from our Destroyers. They are the home most of our modern guided missiles and getting upgraded with our new laser defense.

You don't need stealth when you're blowing up camel jockeys armed with AK-47s.
If you are trying to take out precision targets you need to get there without alerting defences.
For general blowing the crap out of countries you don't need stealth.

We still use drones for this. They get close, then deploy a hellfire missile. No reason to launch from a sub. Both the drone and missile are smaller than most conventional weapons can deal with. This is why our boats are getting lasers and our drones getting microwave weapons.

Looking quick we have Repears in Poland.  Nasty fuckers.  Army claims they will not let them go full AI, but they can go full AI for intercepting other drones and missiles.  

Yes. Bombs are fantastic. So fantastic they don't exactly discriminate. 

Blitzerging the hell out of a civilian population, you won't be the great liberators - you'll be the same Donkeys who ravaged the Middle East for the last 20 years and turned the region into a pressure cooker for terrorist groups. So, instead of destroying everything - you'll be fighting in the streets. Remembering we want Ukraine to still exist when this is over. I know the United States doesn't necessarily care about what happens next.

Here's an example of American fire power at it's finest, " US-led airstrikes have ‘killed at least 22,000 civilians’ in Middle East and Africa over past 20 years "

Freedom! 

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/airstrikes-us-war-on-terror-civilians-b1914924.html

FREEDOM~!!! has a price.

Only reason we are discussing this whole situation is because the US and Russia have stockpiles of explosives that people are pushing for us to use so they can sell the countries more.

Fox News with a hilarious quote.  Can easily see many going against Ukraine action since it ruins the playbook for midterms.  

STEPHEN MILLER (GUEST): And so Republicans need to be careful here and not get dragged so far down into only talking about Ukraine that all of the issues Americans care about suddenly are wiped off the front pages of the newspaper.

WATTERS: You know, you're so right about that. And it's quicksand because you know how the news cycle moves, you'll hear Ukraine and then, once the bombs start dropping, you'll never hear about inflation, CRT, the open border, crime, anything.

Hmmm

@james is a russian bot sullying PW with clear propoganda comrade!

Feb 21, 2022 19:20:22 GMT @ness said:

@james is a russian bot sullying PW with clear propoganda comrade!

My name a Borat.

Putin declared that Russia is treating Donetsk and Luhansk as independent. These are the separatist states he wants as part of Russia.

What I do not get is why Ukraine is not just like giving them up. Both states are basically Russian already. More people in these states speak Russian than Ukrainian. And these states have been attacking the Western Ukraine since the Orange Revolution. Give them up and sue for peace. When you are at war with your own people, that is a time to stop and ask is it worth it?

If there is no settlement, Putin will likely take Kiev and annex everything east of the Dnieper river.

Feb 21, 2022 21:50:24 GMT c said:

Putin declared that Russia is treating Donetsk and Luhansk as independent. These are the separatist states he wants as part of Russia.

What I do not get is why Ukraine is not just like giving them up. Both states are basically Russian already. More people in these states speak Russian than Ukrainian. And these states have been attacking the Western Ukraine since the Orange Revolution. Give them up and sue for peace. When you are at war with your own people, that is a time to stop and ask is it worth it?

If there is no settlement, Putin will likely take Kiev and annex everything east of the Dnieper river.

He wants all of it, give him some of it now and he takes the rest later.
Which he will do anyway, so they would only be playing for time.

Naw, he actually does not give a shit about Eastern Ukraine. They are Europeans to him.


Putin went in. He is sending his troops into Donetsk and Luhansk for peacekeeping. Since he considers them free states this is not an invasion.  

Feb 21, 2022 15:18:14 GMT c said:

Fox News with a hilarious quote.  Can easily see many going against Ukraine action since it ruins the playbook for midterms.  

STEPHEN MILLER (GUEST): And so Republicans need to be careful here and not get dragged so far down into only talking about Ukraine that all of the issues Americans care about suddenly are wiped off the front pages of the newspaper.

WATTERS: You know, you're so right about that. And it's quicksand because you know how the news cycle moves, you'll hear Ukraine and then, once the bombs start dropping, you'll never hear about inflation, CRT, the open border, crime, anything.

They’re actually speaking the truth though. How don’t you realize that’s how it always goes?