They are upset that if we invade the Ukraine their made up bullshit will not be picked up by anyone else. You like like Hillary 2024, Hillary going to jail, or whatever else Hillary BS they are pushing this week. Think now it is she killed Epistein's buddy.

Meanwhile it is their stories that allowed Putin to go in. Fox convinced a third of the country Russia is our ally and the Ukraine is so corrupt that these states are better off being part of Russia.

UN security council meeting. Gonna be fun when everyone pushes their chests out and Putin just tells them no and vetos any response.

Feb 21, 2022 21:50:24 GMT c said:

Putin declared that Russia is treating Donetsk and Luhansk as independent. These are the separatist states he wants as part of Russia.

Isn't this just a copy paste of the tweet @james just copy pasted?

Missed his post. Either way that is important so worth making sure people know it happened.

US is replying by blocking trade and economic development with Donetsk and Luhansk as if they were their own countries.

And that is likely a wrap already. Punitive economic measures coming, but it seems Putin got what he wanted already. Like with the Crimea these areas are not part of the Russian Bloc. The mere act of blocking things for these states, shows Biden is willing to consider them independent.

Feb 22, 2022 4:41:44 GMT c said:

Missed his post. Either way that is important so worth making sure people know it happened.

US is replying by blocking trade and economic development with Donetsk and Luhansk as if they were their own countries.

And that is likely a wrap already. Punitive economic measures coming, but it seems Putin got what he wanted already. Like with the Crimea these areas are not part of the Russian Bloc. The mere act of blocking things for these states, shows Biden is willing to consider them independent.

You are a funny man.
This is like an over handsy teenage boy on a date, just because he copped a feel doesn't mean he is going to stop and be content... Until he is told "No" very clearly.
Putin's only at first base and nobody has protested more than saying "We probably shouldn't".

Biden does not want war. He slipped a few times and revealed that basically we will do not thing so long as Russia does not push further in. They take Kiev we go to war. They just take these two states, we will look the other way. These two states is what Putin wanted. It is not over as there are 2 to 4 more states that want to be Russian. And frankly after the shit Ukraine pulled during the Orange Revolution they have no leg to stand on really. If these states leave it is their own damn fault for the coup and outlawing the minority party.

Putin will not take Western Ukraine anyway as he does not want it.  They are not allies of his.  West of the river they are Europeans.  As long as they do not put in weapons he would prefer they just fucked off.

Feb 22, 2022 6:35:44 GMT c said:

Biden does not want war. He slipped a few times and revealed that basically we will do not thing so long as Russia does not push further in. They take Kiev we go to war. They just take these two states, we will look the other way. These two states is what Putin wanted. It is not over as there are 2 to 4 more states that want to be Russian. And frankly after the shit Ukraine pulled during the Orange Revolution they have no leg to stand on really. If these states leave it is their own damn fault for the coup and outlawing the minority party.

Putin will not take Western Ukraine anyway as he does not want it.  They are not allies of his.  West of the river they are Europeans.  As long as they do not put in weapons he would prefer they just fucked off.

Your logic makes little sense, I completely agree that Biden doesn't want a war, there is no appetite in the USA for a war, the Covid response has essentially been akin to a war for three years and the people are tired of it.
I see no logical reason for Putin to stop before they get to Kiev, there was no great strategic advantage to the territories that just claimed independence.
Crimea at least included sea access, this provides nothing... Except for a better platform for attacking Kiev.
It's a bit of a worry, I have friends of friends in Kiev, friends in Poland and a supplier in the Czech republic.
Bloody awful the garish buildings the Soviets left behind, they truly have brought nothing of value to the world... Mao is exactly the same.

Both states are resource heavy, both in coal and the base metals needed for electronics. Putin wants the mines and factories in these regions as they make up 30% of all Ukraine's exports. Also as far as Russia is concerned, Ukraine is part of Russia. They been free for 30 years, but prior to that Ukraine was part of Russia for hundreds of years. Putin wants the Russia parts of the Ukraine back, which is generally the area east of the Dnieper. West of the Dnieper for the last few hundred years was more aligned with Poland. Putin does not really care much about that area.


Ukraine seems to be to setting the framing that the loss of these two states will be worth avoiding war.  Putin will likely also want Kharkiv though before this is over, but he will be happy if he only gets the Donbas basin. 

The prophet has spoken, just like coronavirus this shit is real

This is an area of the world that has seen dispute after dispute over the last 1,500 years.

Everyone from the Vanguards, The Mongols, The Turks, The Polish–Lithuanian Comm, Austria and Russia have controlled what is now Ukraine or parts of it. Including the being split into two banks.

Then there's mass immigration into the area, and out of the area into particularly Russia. Then they sort of really only became " Ukraine " after the fall of The Russian Empire in which they took formally Russian territory.

These guys don't really know who they are, which is part of the problem. I'm no geopolitical master, but this surely lays the groundwork for annexation. Under all those layers of the Ukrainian onion, there's probably some loose justification for what's been playing out since 2014.

Feb 22, 2022 13:46:49 GMT System said:

The prophet has spoken, just like coronavirus this shit is real

Maybe if it came from Ja Rule I might give it some credibility.

Feb 22, 2022 22:54:39 GMT @ness said:

Feb 22, 2022 13:46:49 GMT System said:

The prophet has spoken, just like coronavirus this shit is real

Maybe if it came from Ja Rule I might give it some credibility.

WHERE IS JA?

Am I the only one that thinks Putin is going to take Kyiv, annex eastern Ukraine and call it part of Russia, the rest of the world is going to go "hey we told you not to do that!" and then...that's it? It'll be over?

Why would this trigger World War 3? Why would anyone give a fuck? Feels like the western world and the rest of Europe would just slap a million sanctions on Russia then look at Ukraine and go "ah man that sucks, bro."

Feb 23, 2022 1:32:13 GMT RT said:

Am I the only one that thinks Putin is going to take Kyiv, annex eastern Ukraine and call it part of Russia, the rest of the world is going to go "hey we told you not to do that!" and then...that's it? It'll be over?

Why would this trigger World War 3? Why would anyone give a fuck? Feels like the western world and the rest of Europe would just slap a million sanctions on Russia then look at Ukraine and go "ah man that sucks, bro."

I agree with you, but we are frighteningly close to the starting point of WW2.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

Chamberlain signed an agreement with Hitler that he would only take a very small part of Czechoslovakia that had German heritage. Hitler signed it and Chamberlain became the most failed leader of the modern era as he returned to England claiming "Peace in our time" then a part of Slovakia claimed independence and Germany moved in and WW2 started.

The worry for the West is that if Putin only wanted Eastern Ukraine they'd let him have it, but if he didn't stop there, he'd be on the doorstep of Poland, Hungary etc. So it's a matter of will he stop now or is he going to smile and shake on something... Then pull a Hitler.

It's also why nobody will want to make that deal with Putin, as the failure of Chamberlain is a case study in how badly it can go wrong when you try to appease a dictator.

Fairly sure most of the world is ok with Putin taking everything east of the Dnieper.

The Munich Agreement was such a bizarre event, along with that whole five year period of Hitler as a man of peace, as two months after that agreement was Kristallnacht and the enacting of the final solution.

So basically the purpose of the sanctions is to make things so bad in Russia that the people get fed up with Putin and they either overthrow the government or refuse to fight his war. Because that’s really all the west can do to stop him from doing whatever the fuck he wants. And if that fails well the war was probably going to happen anyway so we’re right where we started.

That’s pretty damn scary when you think about it. Especially now that everyone has nuclear bombs, so a world war is going to look way fucking different than it did 80 years ago.

Feb 23, 2022 6:29:57 GMT RT said:

So basically the purpose of the sanctions is to make things so bad in Russia that the people get fed up with Putin and they either overthrow the government or refuse to fight his war. Because that’s really all the west can do to stop him from doing whatever the fuck he wants. And if that fails well the war was probably going to happen anyway so we’re right where we started.

That’s pretty damn scary when you think about it. Especially now that everyone has nuclear bombs, so a world war is going to look way fucking different than it did 80 years ago.

The other difference is the fast flow of information, back in the days of WW2 there was a certain quaint romance in going to fight for freedom thanks to propoganda pieces in news reels. Now with 24hr news and the internet we get to see blown apart bodies in real time. It's why that since Vietnam the USA hasn't engaged in any war that they couldn't do easily, not that I'm making light of the servicemen and women who died in Iraq and Afghanistan...

The US public doesn't care enough about the Ukraine to send their sons and daughters to die. The USA couldn't have given a rats ass about Hitler and all of WW2 until pearl harbour.

Nobody wants a war, Northern Europe is going to be on their own I suspect... That is what Putin is counting on. But with wars stupid things happen accifentally that cause the situation to change quickly. Accidental fire on a US commercial aircraft or shipping vessel and BOOM

Feb 23, 2022 5:02:30 GMT c said:

Fairly sure most of the world is ok with Putin taking everything east of the Dnieper.

The Munich Agreement was such a bizarre event, along with that whole five year period of Hitler as a man of peace, as two months after that agreement was Kristallnacht and the enacting of the final solution.

The Munich Agreement was concluded in September 1938. The Final Solution wasn't an official policy until January 1942. But really it kicked off in June 1941 during the invasion of The Soviet Union. The systematic slaughter that is.

Really, the Night of Broken Glass was about arresting and incarcerating Jewish Men, despite 90 odd deaths.

The Western world has evolved beyond this, an act like Kristallnacht would not be tolerated. Maybe in a shithole African country drenched in civil war, but not in Europe.. even Eastern Europe. You would think the Bosnian War taught us something. And in an age of social justice and social media, it would be front and centre for the world to see.

Feb 23, 2022 7:04:01 GMT NATH45 said:

Feb 23, 2022 5:02:30 GMT c said:

Fairly sure most of the world is ok with Putin taking everything east of the Dnieper.

The Munich Agreement was such a bizarre event, along with that whole five year period of Hitler as a man of peace, as two months after that agreement was Kristallnacht and the enacting of the final solution.

The Munich Agreement was concluded in September 1938. The Final Solution wasn't an official policy until January 1942. But really it kicked off in June 1941 during the invasion of The Soviet Union. The systematic slaughter that is.

Really, the Night of Broken Glass was about arresting and incarcerating Jewish Men, despite 90 odd deaths.

The Western world has evolved beyond this, an act like Kristallnacht would not be tolerated. Maybe in a shithole African country drenched in civil war, but not in Europe.. even Eastern Europe. You would think the Bosnian War taught us something. And in an age of social justice and social media, it would be front and centre for the world to see.

You have a higher opinion of human nature than I do. Sudan and Kosovo show us that history repeats endlessly.

Hell, we give China the Winter Olympics despite them systematically oppressing the Uyghurs. We don't care... Forced Labor is good for cheap Nike's.

Ukraine may get very spicy in the near future. This will be twice in ten years that Britain and the US ignored the Budapest Memorandum. US made it clear in 2014 they do not consider this agreement legally binding, but the whole reason Ukraine gave up their nukes was because they were assured that Britain and the US would defend them. Well Russia too, but Putin made it clear in 2014 he has no plans to honor the agreement.

More and more in the past 10 years the US has no been honoring it's agreements. Given the bipolar nature of the country based on who holds the White House now, our international standing is going to take a huge blow as we become the crazy girlfriend who loves you one minute and then stabs you with a fork the next.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but having been married to a soldier during Bosnia, Kosovo, 9-11 and Afghanistan peacekeeping and peacemaking missions, I think I am finding this more concerning than most. Most of my friends and my ex are now retired, but I know the signs. Last few nights, they have been moving equipment from Wainwright and other training areas to the larger base here in town as we have an airfield you can land a space shuttle or Herc on. I've seen the convoys. Spring training has been cancelled. They don't do that lightly. They are getting ready to mobilize. We already have troops in Latvia and I can tell you from a reliable source our JTF are in Ukraine and Russia and have been for a few months.

This won't stop with sanctions. If it does I'll retract my statement, but the others ALL started the same way.

Oh the entire world is moving to war footing. If NATO moves in to defend Ukraine and Russia attacks them it is a world war due to mutual defense agreements. Likely if Putin takes Kiev it is also world war time.

And even really war is not the concern. The concerns are Putin will use a nuke or China uses this as a justification to take control of the South China Sea and we end up in a Japan situation where the US is fighting a war halfway across the globe with a different enemy than the war started with. We have five carriers in that regions and are moving a sixth in place. We have one in the Med sea ready to raid into Russia. Plus now 8 destroyers, so this will not be a long war if it happens.

Finished building my Anderson shelter today, now just to get tinned beans.

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-24/russia-ukraine-what-does-vladimir-putin-want/100851406

"The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century," he said in 2005.

The disintegration of the once-mighty USSR into 15 independent states left the former KGB agent personally destitute.

Last year, he revealed he was forced to drive a taxi to make ends meet in the 1990s as Russia economically struggled."

"No-one should doubt that Putin seeks to revive what he imagines to have been the glory — and the geographical reach — of the Soviet Union," said Olga Lautman, an analyst with the Centre for European Policy Analysis."

Sounds eerily familiar to a certain Austrian Artist's experience.

Putin hasn't written a book outlining his struggles has he?

Edit : he's written several books on Judo.

Feb 23, 2022 18:50:11 GMT c said:

Oh the entire world is moving to war footing. If NATO moves in to defend Ukraine and Russia attacks them it is a world war due to mutual defense agreements. Likely if Putin takes Kiev it is also world war time.

And even really war is not the concern. The concerns are Putin will use a nuke or China uses this as a justification to take control of the South China Sea and we end up in a Japan situation where the US is fighting a war halfway across the globe with a different enemy than the war started with. We have five carriers in that regions and are moving a sixth in place. We have one in the Med sea ready to raid into Russia. Plus now 8 destroyers, so this will not be a long war if it happens.

Jeez now that is alarmist.  All I was saying is that NATO is likely to deploy.  I don't think we are looking at nuclear war or even 'war' per se.  It could be an 'initiative', which is not war.  Peacekeeping missions have a completely different set of rules of engagement than Peace Making missions.  Doesn't mean there won't be deaths but they will be much less than if we were at war.  

I found this article interesting:

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/i-m-a-former-moscow-correspondent-don-t-let-vladimir-putin-fool-you-russia-s-war-in-ukraine-is-only-about-one-thing/ar-AAUbFJ3?ocid=entnewsntp

To understand the Kremlin’s motivations in regards to its smaller, impoverished neighbor, the key fact to know is that Russia supplies 40% of Europe’s heating fuel supplies — namely natural gas.

To get it there, Russia relies mostly on two aging pipeline networks, one of which runs through Belarus and the other through Ukraine. For this, Russia pays Ukraine around $2 billion a year in transit fees.

Russia is a petrostate and relies on oil and natural gas sales for about 60% of its export revenue and 40% of its total budget expenditures. Any crimp on Russia’s ability to access the European market is a threat to its economic security.



In the Kremlin’s view, a switch of allegiance by Kiev to the West — be it an economic association agreement with the European Union like Ukraine was on the verge of signing in 2014, or even the hint of joining NATO — is close to an act of war.

Any crimp on that pipe blocks 40% of Europes heating, it may be ok heading into Summer, but if a war or Putin's supervilliany hangs on.. it could be a cold Christmas. Especially for the poor.

That's the real victim in all this: the people, especially the poor in an already impoverished Nation. My ex saw that during all his tours.

With war have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Russia also wants the coal and metal from that region for themselves.

Love this trending on Twitter today:

Crude oil up several percentage points, which by the time it reaches the American consumer means are likely looking towards a 50% increase in gasoline in the near future. Saying to be prepared to pay 6 to 8 dollars a gallon in the very near future. Also expect sticky price increases across the board from everyone who can raise prices to compensate for the higher transit costs that may come. Of course once the crisis is over, the prices will not be lowered.

Russia just announced military action against the Ukraine to protect themselves from nazification.