We can’t we all just enjoy wrestling!

Dec 3, 2023 0:22:40 GMT Emperor said:

I'm with c on this one. What worked in the 80s in heavily localised federations, four decades ago in a completely different world, isn't necessarily going to work in a national/global televised company. Like anything else, wrestling should evolve with the times. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for the old guard and their wisdom, but blindly accepting everything they say leads to the path of the "highly successful" NWA.

It's more of a respect thing which is what a lot of guys like FTR, Punk etc. are going on about. Having guys who have been there and done it just get eyerolled due to age & "being out of touch" seems crazy. Only active guys like Jericho & Billy Gunn are actually treated with merit by the sound of that Punk conference last year who also brought up Malenko, Jerry Lynn & Jake Roberts as others who "That dumb empty headed fuck" was ignoring and probably others. 

You don't have to do every single thing known to man that Jim Ross or Tully Blanchard or whoever is telling you but it's that they deserve some element of respect and aren't ripping the current product for brownie points or to be an asshole. It's because they want it to be better and care. 

You'd probably get assaulted if not humbled if you tried to downplay or mock any of the older guard in Japan. They actually get physical over there. You imagine a young lion in NJPW tells Suzuki off? :lol: 

Again if the vets were right, why are feds run by vets doing far worse in general than the feds they hate. Why is GCW drawing better than NWA? Why is Revolver doing better than MLW? Why is the West Coast scene on fire right now while the midwest and south, that is mostly run by former vets, dead?

NWA and Impact were both lead into the ground by the wisdom of vets. WWE will likely own them both in the near future.

So by your nonsensical logic, all veteran advice is bad?

Because, why? Some promoters aren't as successful as others...

Right...

Dec 3, 2023 1:41:54 GMT Blindy said:

Dec 3, 2023 0:22:40 GMT Emperor said:

I'm with c on this one. What worked in the 80s in heavily localised federations, four decades ago in a completely different world, isn't necessarily going to work in a national/global televised company. Like anything else, wrestling should evolve with the times. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for the old guard and their wisdom, but blindly accepting everything they say leads to the path of the "highly successful" NWA.

It's more of a respect thing which is what a lot of guys like FTR, Punk etc. are going on about. Having guys who have been there and done it just get eyerolled due to age & "being out of touch" seems crazy. Only active guys like Jericho & Billy Gunn are actually treated with merit by the sound of that Punk conference last year who also brought up Malenko, Jerry Lynn & Jake Roberts as others who "That dumb empty headed fuck" was ignoring and probably others. 

You don't have to do every single thing known to man that Jim Ross or Tully Blanchard or whoever is telling you but it's that they deserve some element of respect and aren't ripping the current product for brownie points or to be an asshole. It's because they want it to be better and care. 

You'd probably get assaulted if not humbled if you tried to downplay or mock any of the older guard in Japan. They actually get physical over there. You imagine a young lion in NJPW tells Suzuki off?  

God, imagine pulling that in Gaea?  They would have killed you.  Straight out killed you.  

I do love that Hangman is the face of not respecting elders.  Pretty sure Hangman will do alright with Jimmy Valiant's advice.   Funny so many forget he is Jimmy's protege.   For the record, Valiant was in the WWE hall of fame, before Punk debuted as a wrestler period.

Dec 2, 2023 14:56:53 GMT Blindy said:

Dec 2, 2023 13:42:55 GMT RT said:

This is a terrible analogy. AEW was getting along just fine until Punk showed up and started swinging at people he disagreed with. He didn’t encounter anarchy, he started it. Twice.

IDK about that. Lefisto blew the women's division up weeks prior and was just deemed "A problem and someone looking to start something" with tons of AEW talents at the same time posting how great the environment backstage is. We know the whole Rosa/Baker thing that was going on. Jade Cargill pretty much spoke glowingly of WWE's leadership and ability to teach, which she flat out said she never learned how to use a chair until CM Punk told her what to do 1on1. 

Hangman Page randomly bringing up stuff on Live TV without any clearance when everyone has to go through Tony was pretty unprofessional. There's a place & time to call someone out and it's not on Live TV without going through the proper channels. That's like a punter running a fake punt without the coaches giving the thumbs up towards doing it. Regardless of if it works or not, it feels like it goes beyond the decision makers. Punk had openly mentioned quite a few talents ignoring older veterans like Jim Ross or Arn Anderson's guidance & opinions with Brandon Cutler prior mocking Jim Ross for being critical of some of what AEW was doing. 

Everything you mentioned here were giant nothing burgers that were being pushed by dirt sheets at the time for clicks. It would have zero affect on AEW going forward. But you know that and are hugely biased to WWE so there's not much point in trying to argue with you.

If you think anything you mentioned and anything that happened before CM Punk showed up and physically attacked several people on two different occasions is the same thing then you're just being ridiculous.

Curious where the whole respect the vets attitude was when Punk refused to shake Regal's hand in AEW and then got into his face. Or when he banned several vets from working Collision.

If a veteran is generally giving you advice from a place of positivity and guidance, and you're still being an empty headed fuck about it.. well, you better get used to being a B player in a B Company.

I feel bad for Jack Perry.. actually, no I don't. He's suspended indefinitely from AEW and he'll never work for WWE while Punk's there.

Interesting news about that Punk - Austin match. Punk was said it could happen but not to overly consider the possibility of it. After which all of the dirt sheets instantly learned that it was a possibility.

So just like in AEW, it seems rumors about Punk leak easily to some dirt sheets in a selectively manner.  Wonder if WWE will crack down on him leaking shit to the press or not.

Meltzer started peddling this match over a year ago. So it isn't exactly a new theory to float around. Last November, Uncle Dave was then, making an assumption that Punk might eventually get released after Brawl Out and return to the WWE. It's not new information, it's just picking up click-bait steam atm.

Dec 3, 2023 3:28:30 GMT RT said:

Dec 2, 2023 14:56:53 GMT Blindy said:

IDK about that. Lefisto blew the women's division up weeks prior and was just deemed "A problem and someone looking to start something" with tons of AEW talents at the same time posting how great the environment backstage is. We know the whole Rosa/Baker thing that was going on. Jade Cargill pretty much spoke glowingly of WWE's leadership and ability to teach, which she flat out said she never learned how to use a chair until CM Punk told her what to do 1on1. 

Hangman Page randomly bringing up stuff on Live TV without any clearance when everyone has to go through Tony was pretty unprofessional. There's a place & time to call someone out and it's not on Live TV without going through the proper channels. That's like a punter running a fake punt without the coaches giving the thumbs up towards doing it. Regardless of if it works or not, it feels like it goes beyond the decision makers. Punk had openly mentioned quite a few talents ignoring older veterans like Jim Ross or Arn Anderson's guidance & opinions with Brandon Cutler prior mocking Jim Ross for being critical of some of what AEW was doing. 

Everything you mentioned here were giant nothing burgers that were being pushed by dirt sheets at the time for clicks. It would have zero affect on AEW going forward. But you know that and are hugely biased to WWE so there's not much point in trying to argue with you.

If you think anything you mentioned and anything that happened before CM Punk showed up and physically attacked several people on two different occasions is the same thing then you're just being ridiculous.

Nah I give WWE shit when they deserve it. I am an NXT stan though admittedly but even then I have fell off hard of it.

and I have been pretty consistent with not liking Punk but AEW has had a lot of issues prior or not involving Punk. He had no say on the woman's division or current talents like The Hardys griping about their usage as we speak. Nor did he have any say when Impact people thought the AEW guys were getting way too big for their own good(I think Guevara said no way to going to Impact to join a stable during their partnership IIRC). Guys like Frankie Kazarian who was around to help build the company decided to leave for Impact due to usage. You had guys like Andrade nudge at WWE/Triple H to get them back practically. 

Dec 3, 2023 5:24:28 GMT Blindy said:

Dec 3, 2023 3:28:30 GMT RT said:

Everything you mentioned here were giant nothing burgers that were being pushed by dirt sheets at the time for clicks. It would have zero affect on AEW going forward. But you know that and are hugely biased to WWE so there's not much point in trying to argue with you.

If you think anything you mentioned and anything that happened before CM Punk showed up and physically attacked several people on two different occasions is the same thing then you're just being ridiculous.

Nah I give WWE shit when they deserve it. I am an NXT stan though admittedly but even then I have fell off hard of it.

and I have been pretty consistent with not liking Punk but AEW has had a lot of issues prior or not involving Punk. He had no say on the woman's division or current talents like The Hardys griping about their usage as we speak. Nor did he have any say when Impact people thought the AEW guys were getting way too big for their own good(I think Guevara said no way to going to Impact to join a stable during their partnership IIRC). Guys like Frankie Kazarian who was around to help build the company decided to leave for Impact due to usage. You had guys like Andrade nudge at WWE/Triple H to get them back practically. 

You do realize that almost every WWE star that joined AEW left WWE for the same reasons right?

Dec 3, 2023 5:35:50 GMT RT said:

Dec 3, 2023 5:24:28 GMT Blindy said:

Nah I give WWE shit when they deserve it. I am an NXT stan though admittedly but even then I have fell off hard of it.

and I have been pretty consistent with not liking Punk but AEW has had a lot of issues prior or not involving Punk. He had no say on the woman's division or current talents like The Hardys griping about their usage as we speak. Nor did he have any say when Impact people thought the AEW guys were getting way too big for their own good(I think Guevara said no way to going to Impact to join a stable during their partnership IIRC). Guys like Frankie Kazarian who was around to help build the company decided to leave for Impact due to usage. You had guys like Andrade nudge at WWE/Triple H to get them back practically. 

You do realize that almost every WWE star that joined AEW left WWE for the same reasons right?

Sure you can't please everybody as there's only so much TV time available for all but my major point is Punk felt like an easy scapegoat to hide for the time he was there and I think Punk caught onto that and called it out. Now how he handled it was probably the worst outcome possible as he cost himself loads of money and forever damaged his reputation but I guess he just lost his composure and felt no one really had his back excluding a few people. 

Now there's no more Punk and you have Matt Hardy coming out openly questioning the direction he and his brother are on. 


There's also the Jon Gresham incident with Tony Khan where he nearly pulled a Punk himself(reportedly). Big Swole got trashed on by TK on social media practically. QT Marshall basically told Shaq who told Shaq prior to that 1st major bump of his "Welcome to the wrestling world" practically when celebrities should be eased in and taken care of 1st & foremost, especially when they are a huge entity on TNT's biggest cash cow(NBA on TNT). Speaking of QT Marshall, another guy who was there in the beginning of the company getting on the ground now left over difference of direction. Who is next? Dustin Rhodes? 

All of Cody's guys should leave. If they joined AEW for the creative direction of Cody, it should have been clear a while ago that this was Cody's direction and not Tony's. The guy who dictates the flow of the fed has always been Jericho anyway, not Tony, Cody or the Elite.

Dustin should retire in WWE not AEW anyway. He should go out as Goldust, then enter the hall of fame as Dustin.

For Gresham, his ego took over hard. He did not want to drop belt, did not work any of the shows leading up to defending the belt, and was pissy bastard backstage. He had nothing but nice things to say about Tony as after the match, Tony told him he was welcome to come back anytime after he gave him his release. And after a bit of soul searching, and the rapid fall of Terminus after just 3 shows, it turned out leaving AEW was the best move he could have made. He is doing ok on Impact, but he also just finished a tour of AJPW. They may not be what they once were, but it is still AJPW. He is the rare modern worker to also have wrestled for NJPW.

For Matt, not sure what he expects. Jeff fucked up pretty badly, so Tony is right to not push them hard. Tony pushes them and Jeff comes off the wagon again it will be a PR shitshow and any program planned gets canned with no warning. Matt wants to team with Jeff, this is how it really got to be.

Matt has delusions of grandeur in thinking anyone wants to see The Hardys stumble and hobbled through another spot filled shit show.

It's a disservice to Jeff at this point having to pep him up with whatever substance is keeping him alive just to expect him to throw his body through a table.

I'll say this, there's problems in AEW and there's problems in WWE. Half of the people participating in this discussion will embrace that. The other half won't, but they'll need to accept AEW isn't the utopia it's been made out to be, nor was/is CM Punk the only issue plaguing the brand.

Hardy's returning to WWE gonna be hype!!!

Apparently..

CM Punk has the highest selling shirt on WWE Shop currently...







He also still has the highest selling merch in AEW in 2022/2023.

Depends on the source. The AEW shirt most report outsold the Punk one. But the beauty of Punk's AEW deal is they can sell his shirts to WWE fans indefinitely. Pretty sure Tony can even print new ones for the next 4 or so years.

I guess at least the revenue AEW can make off of Punk shirts will help cover the lack of ticket sales they get.😐

Sure any day now AEW will collapse from lack of cash as people been predicting since it launched. Any day now.

How is Vince's WWE doing?  Oh wait...

Dec 3, 2023 21:44:56 GMT Leper Messiah said:

I guess at least the revenue AEW can make off of Punk shirts will help cover the lack of ticket sales they get.😐

lol.

Maybe, cover the costs of Fight Forever.

So after a fairly underwhelming promo on RAW, Punk had a second go at it and delivered a much better promo on SmackDown. He addressed the RAW promo, called out a bunch of superstars, took a couple of digs and outlined his biggest motivation on his return.



Even if you enjoyed the RAW promo, I think you'd have to agree that this was a step up.

Of course, joking about punching people backstage.

All fun and games until he sucker punches someone in WWE too. And that basically as close as he can get to talking about Brawl Out or Brawl In without breaking the NDA.

Still think it is lame that it is either or him or Cody taking the Rumble. But there is a long shot AJ appears in the women's Rumble so maybe it is worth having a Punk win for that. Sure she can do something that does not see her bumping on the neck if that is really an issue.

Dec 9, 2023 15:26:36 GMT Big Pete said:

Even if you enjoyed the RAW promo, I think you'd have to agree that this was a step up.

Not much of a step up.

CM Punk promised an edgier promo but didn't deliver. What did he have to say about Reigns, Cody, and Rollins? The same old talking points everyone has said. Reigns is never here, Cody has a story to finish, Rollins not being "the man" in his household is a good gag but I've definitely heard that being used against Rollins in the WWE before. The one good line he has was about the backstage punch. But at least the promo had some direction and made clear Punk's intentions, with another highly original line about pointing at the Wrestlemania sign.

Dec 9, 2023 16:00:44 GMT Emperor said:

Dec 9, 2023 15:26:36 GMT Big Pete said:

Even if you enjoyed the RAW promo, I think you'd have to agree that this was a step up.

Not much of a step up.

CM Punk promised an edgier promo but didn't deliver. What did he have to say about Reigns, Cody, and Rollins? The same old talking points everyone has said. Reigns is never here, Cody has a story to finish, Rollins not being "the man" in his household is a good gag but I've definitely heard that being used against Rollins in the WWE before. The one good line he has was about the backstage punch. But at least the promo had some direction and made clear Punk's intentions, with another highly original line about pointing at the Wrestlemania sign.

Yeah, that was a line Roman used on Rollins in the lead up to their Rumble '22 match.

I liked that he didn't just stop there and teased a bunch of rivalries/partnerships with Jimmy Uso, Jey Uso, Solo Sikoa, Paul Heyman, Kevin Owens, Randy Orton, LA Knight also in the mix. It provides an interesting road-map and throws another big contender into the Rumble. It shows that he's engaged and there's still plenty to unpack in the future.

Ah I forgot about the Paul Heyman reference. That was neat of him to mention. Punk said he was the first Paul Heyman guy. Wasn't Brock the first?

Dec 9, 2023 18:53:58 GMT Emperor said:

Ah I forgot about the Paul Heyman reference. That was neat of him to mention. Punk said he was the first Paul Heyman guy. Wasn't Brock the first?

Wasn't it Bam Bam Bigelow in 1987?

In WWE, it was clearly Brock although the backstage rumour and innuendo would have you believe Rob Van Dam in 2001 was the first Heyman guy (which actively hurt Rob).

I'll give Punk this, he was the first to mention Paul since WWECW. He brought Paul Heyman into vogue with the pipebomb and made it a badge of honour.

Here's one of the better articles on WWE.com going through Paul's history with various talent. It may shock you to know that Heyman also considers The Miz, a Heyman guy.

www.wwe.com/classics/paul-heyman-guys/page-8

It does open the door to a Brock rematch as well, 10+ years after their SummerSlam classic.

I thought it was a good promo - it teased a number of possibilities, and addressed a number of talking points from the last week.

He seemed happy, and the audience ate it up. Expect that line about punching people backstage, which went over the heads of 80% of the audience, because chances are most of them likely think Punk had 10 years off and fought in the UFC and acted in some terrible movies and have no idea who or what a Young Buck is.

So much top tier talent in WWE at the moment. Who gets the biggest pop at The Rumble? WWE 2023/24 is becoming WWE 2002/03 all over again in terms of an all star roster.

The fact the "Brawl Out" reference went over fans heads really just goes to show, WWE lives rent free in the AEW die-hard head, but AEW isn't even an afterthought to the WWE die-hard.

Heck, in a few years, when Edge makes a return to WWE, even in a one off appearance, a lot of WWE fans will be like "it's cool to see Edge finally back in a wrestling ring".