Dec 3, 2023 0:22:40 GMT Emperor said:

I'm with c on this one. What worked in the 80s in heavily localized federations, four decades ago in a completely different world, isn't necessarily going to work in a national/global televised company. Like anything else, wrestling should evolve with the times. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for the old guard and their wisdom, but blindly accepting everything they say leads to the path of the "highly successful" NWA.

Most of those fans use Punk as an excuse to not only hate modern wrestling but to pretend like there aren't alternatives to AEW. There are but they are mad that fans care about the kind of product AEW has. Opposed to 1988 N.W.A.

Fed wars are so stupid. If you do not like a fed do not watch and move on. Some fans it seems like to hate on wrestling more than they actually watch wrestling. And def feel the AEW hating fans, seem to just like to trash anything that is not WWE using Punk as their champion now.

Dec 10, 2023 18:54:20 GMT c said:

Fed wars are so stupid. If you do not like a fed do not watch and move on. Some fans it seems like to hate on wrestling more than they actually watch wrestling. And def feel the AEW hating fans, seem to just like to trash anything that is not WWE using Punk as their champion now.

Agreed c, I've said it a few times now, but it's as great a time as any, to be a wrestling fan. There's just so much out there, I have a hard time keeping up with everything I watch and enjoy as it is, never mind wasting precious time on promotions that aren't doing it for me. With that said, even if I'm not a fan of a promotion (AAA, NWA, etc.), I'm glad they still exist as it means more talent getting work, honing their craft, etc., and maybe eventually getting signed to a promotion I do watch.

Also if you hate the modern era, old school stuff is all over now too. Twitch has 24-7 channels playing old school matches, youtube is full of it, etc. Japanese wrestling also has never been easier to watch with DDT, TJPW, Stardom and NJPW all getting heavy American coverage.

But like I said, I think some care more about fighting with fans of wrestling than watching wrestling itself.

Take away the in fighting and tribalism of being a fan and what's left... watching wrestling matches? Gross. Honestly DIS BUSINESS shoulda died out a long time ago if not for us strangely loyal mutants who the industry despises.

It's true that a lot of the drama makes wrestling. Personally I don't care for any kind of backstage politics/drama, but the WWE I've watched in the past few years is almost all promos. The matches don't matter so much for me. Soap opera with muscular manchildren.

AEW I do watch more for the matches than the promos but not by much. NJPW, obviously the matches, but I do go out of my way to watch the backstage interviews.

Watched his Smackdown promo. Good, but lacking something. Can't really articulate what. His thing seems past its due date, maybe. A relic from a different era. He can still get some pops because he has talent on the stick, but it's bordering on nostalgia act. That's not to say once he's mixing it up with specific people he won't find his way, but that promo in particular, more nothing than something.

Do WWE fans still "take over" shows? In the way there would basically be mutinies with the audience? The post-WrestleMania Raws, that one Royal Rumble, and so on? It doesn't seem like they do, but I'm not watching, so I could be very wrong.

I bring this up because if they don't, CM Punk is an anti-status quo character in a time where the audience is pro-status quo. And if that truly is the case, then he really is a relic of a past era.

Dec 11, 2023 1:54:35 GMT Kilgore said:

Watched his Smackdown promo. Good, but lacking something. Can't really articulate what. His thing seems past its due date, maybe. A relic from a different era. He can still get some pops because he has talent on the stick, but it's bordering on nostalgia act. That's not to say once he's mixing it up with specific people he won't find his way, but that promo in particular, more nothing than something.

I feel the same way, I think he lacked authenticity he seemed to think he was going to just come to the ring so people could chant his name.
Seemed pretty lame to list all the big names just to put his own right next to them.

I am a Punk fan, but I think if he isn't ready to work for the fans they will drift off pretty quick.
The Rock, Cena and Austin never took their fans for granted, they knew that the fans were their real bosses.
You can see the Rock and Austin have taken this mindset of working for the fans to Hollywood and it is paying off for them big time.

Dec 10, 2023 20:25:31 GMT Emperor said:

It's true that a lot of the drama makes wrestling. Personally I don't care for any kind of backstage politics/drama, but the WWE I've watched in the past few years is almost all promos. The matches don't matter so much for me. Soap opera with muscular manchildren.

AEW I do watch more for the matches than the promos but not by much. NJPW, obviously the matches, but I do go out of my way to watch the backstage interviews.

As I get older, I realize more and more, mics skills is what gets a guy over with fans more than anything. The biggest stars in the past (Hogan, Savage, Flair, Austin, Rock, Foley, ect.) all had mic skills to go with any in ring ability, and became huge because of it. And a lot of guys who were the best in the ring (like Nash) still go over with fans on their mic skills. Of Bob Armstrong's sons, Brian was the least skilled in the ring, but was the one to break the "Armstrong Curse", because he had the mic skills his brothers didn't.

There's a reason one of the top guys in WWE now is hitting his stride in his 40s... YEAH!!!

Dec 11, 2023 4:07:03 GMT iNCY said:

Dec 11, 2023 1:54:35 GMT Kilgore said:

Watched his Smackdown promo. Good, but lacking something. Can't really articulate what. His thing seems past its due date, maybe. A relic from a different era. He can still get some pops because he has talent on the stick, but it's bordering on nostalgia act. That's not to say once he's mixing it up with specific people he won't find his way, but that promo in particular, more nothing than something.

I feel the same way, I think he lacked authenticity he seemed to think he was going to just come to the ring so people could chant his name.
Seemed pretty lame to list all the big names just to put his own right next to them.

I am a Punk fan, but I think if he isn't ready to work for the fans they will drift off pretty quick.
The Rock, Cena and Austin never took their fans for granted, they knew that the fans were their real bosses.
You can see the Rock and Austin have taken this mindset of working for the fans to Hollywood and it is paying off for them big time.

Exactly Punk's problem in in modern times is a lot of time he does lack authenticity.  People remember Punk at his greatest but forget that most of the time, Punk was not at that level.  He would go months at times calling it in both in the ring and on the mic.  

Still think the big risk with Punk in WWE is he is injury prone these days.  His ring style still will work better in WWE than AEW, and he can halfass the promos, but if he keeps getting hurt nothing else matters.  

Then you still face his ego.  Seems he wants Austin now at WM, and something as little as not main eventing one night against him could cause Punk to lose his smile and start clobbering time backstage.

Dec 11, 2023 1:54:35 GMT Kilgore said:

Watched his Smackdown promo. Good, but lacking something. Can't really articulate what. His thing seems past its due date, maybe. A relic from a different era. He can still get some pops because he has talent on the stick, but it's bordering on nostalgia act. That's not to say once he's mixing it up with specific people he won't find his way, but that promo in particular, more nothing than something.

I can see that.

It was a very WWE promo. In any other company, Punk would have walked in, picked up where he left off and made it clear he wants Roman at Wrestlemania. The whole brand extension angle is just another layer that takes away from the promo because the fans don't view RAW or SmackDown as seperate entities. It's all under the WWE umbrella and the learned fan knows if you want to main event Wrestlemania, you're going after Roman which puts you into conflict with Cody.

I'm sure there's an NDA in place but if Punk could have addressed that and brought that momentum to WWE you could use that scandal to build his brand.

It doesn't help that his first likely feud is with Seth. There's history there and it's an easy feud to build but Seth has never been able to put all the pieces together. At the same way he's over in the same way Fandango was over. The fans love to imitate his entrance and that's where it ends. He's like Randy Orton without the RKO, the talent is there but he has a ceiling that he can't break through.

Gunther isn't quite there yet, LA Knight is limited, Cena is limited/injured, Owens could talk his way into it but that could go either way.

Still, considering the state of things I thought Punk made the most of what he had and showed how good he is at his craft. There's always room for a shit-stirrer in Pro Wrestling, so if Punk can find his feet and the WWE are willing to play ball, there's still plenty on the offer.

Not entirely sure Seth will be in WWE end of next year. Contract is up and Punk taking the title at EC, then pushing him out of WM main event spot is not really how to open negotiations. Tony will offer him and Becky of them a lot more time at home with the kid than WWE will offer as well.

Seth is pretty directionless in WWE right now too but AEW there are a lot of instant storylines they can do.

Seth seems like a company man, but WWE will mean less time with the kid.

I have every bit of confidence that Seth retains the title through to Wrestlemania and likely faces Punk for the belt on Night 1.

Even if he drops the belt, at no point should he be pissy about it. It's a near year long reign.

Then Cody challenges Reigns on Night 2. I can't see anyone else taking that spot.

Dec 12, 2023 1:36:59 GMT c said:

Not entirely sure Seth will be in WWE end of next year. Contract is up and Punk taking the title at EC, then pushing him out of WM main event spot is not really how to open negotiations. Tony will offer him and Becky of them a lot more time at home with the kid than WWE will offer as well.

Seth is pretty directionless in WWE right now too but AEW there are a lot of instant storylines they can do.

Seth seems like a company man, but WWE will mean less time with the kid.

Seth is the new Miz. I will bet my house he never leaves WWE.

Then again I said the same about Edge so who knows. Maybe I will be homeless.

Punk’s return feels a lot like Jericho’s return in 2007. He’s hitting the same notes he was before, but it’s not as timely.

I think once he gets into “that” feud, he’ll be just fine.

He's in that " happy to be here " mode.

I would have loved a more purposeful return, ie; revenge or maybe directly challenging Seth or Roman. Say, Roman declares he's beaten everyone.. then, Punk returns full of piss and vinegar and challenges Reigns.

Isn't this ironic.

Interesting to compare Punk's facial expressions in both of those promos.

That is Punk's reaction to most in ring promos. Unless he REALLY wants to work someone that is all they get, Punk staring and smirking. Been doing it since IWA. Part of the reason everyone quickly teamed him with Cabana and would not book Punk solo. Punk was good cutting promos in the ring alone but do something like this, and Punk just no sells the fuck out of the other person. They added Colt with him so Colt could react, even if Colt was not a real part of the feud. WWE gave him SES and Heyman to react for him the first time for the same reason.

If Punk is into a feud he will react and sell, but if you watch, most of the time, he just buries people in these promo segments.  Moreso with people like Rollins who he has legit heat with.

It doesn't surprise me that he's not taking Seth seriously, what surprises me is that he is taking Hangman seriously given their history.

What is the man supposed to do? Cower in fear in the corner like he's James Ellsworth?

He's a 220lb former World Champion who believes he's the absolute best in the world - do you expect him to be acting like a clown making silly faces?

But, apart from the obvious staring competition - upon taking that verbal tirade from Rollins, Punk lowers his head, and tucks his chin - a defensive posture in the event of a perceived threat. Crossing his arms in a situation like this can be seen as being insecure, anxious, or stressed. It can also been seen as being rude, angry, or resistant. Likely a little from column A and a little from column B.

So while you're reaching for something that isn't there. His body language is telling a story.

At first glance it appeared like Punk had a dismissive smirk as Seth was unloading. Like John Cena openly smirking and laughing at his opponent's promos, but on a much lesser scale.

But looking at his body language as a whole, it is somewhat defensive, as if he's putting on a cocky front to cover his apprehension.

I need to watch the full segment, I fell into that trap of people judging an entire match based on a 10 second clip of a high spot.

Rollins cut a similar promo on Cody when he returned,

"You left WWE six years ago because you weren't good enough. And then every single day that you were gone, you and your little friends tried to tear down what I was building here. And when that didn't work out so well for you, you came running back."

"The prodigal son returns home to fulfill his family legacy. Not on my watch, pal! You don't get to be the conquering hero in my kingdom. No, no, no. You don't get to take a sledgehammer to the throne and get to come back to take back that throne from me."



Just know when you're being work.

Punk's first match back with WWE is against 2023 MVP, Dirty Dom at a live event.

It's barely news, but it's news.

Dec 12, 2023 20:57:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Rollins cut a similar promo on Cody when he returned,

"You left WWE six years ago because you weren't good enough. And then every single day that you were gone, you and your little friends tried to tear down what I was building here. And when that didn't work out so well for you, you came running back."

"The prodigal son returns home to fulfill his family legacy. Not on my watch, pal! You don't get to be the conquering hero in my kingdom. No, no, no. You don't get to take a sledgehammer to the throne and get to come back to take back that throne from me."



Just know when you're being work.

I don't know what you think I'm trying to say, but I am well aware Rollins and Punk are working. They are working very hard indeed.

Dec 12, 2023 22:02:03 GMT Emperor said:

Dec 12, 2023 20:57:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Rollins cut a similar promo on Cody when he returned,

"You left WWE six years ago because you weren't good enough. And then every single day that you were gone, you and your little friends tried to tear down what I was building here. And when that didn't work out so well for you, you came running back."

"The prodigal son returns home to fulfill his family legacy. Not on my watch, pal! You don't get to be the conquering hero in my kingdom. No, no, no. You don't get to take a sledgehammer to the throne and get to come back to take back that throne from me."



Just know when you're being work.

I don't know what you think I'm trying to say, but I am well aware Rollins and Punk are working. They are working very hard indeed.

It's not directed at you. There's a segment of the audience here and elsewhere living in a bubble. Rollins' promo wasn't shooting from the hip, it obviously mimicked Hangman's promo.. but it's also a copy/paste of his promo that was directed at Cody.

It's art taking advantage of life. Taking advantage of a real life sentiment from some fans (likely angered by his AEW tenure)

On a side note, I hope to see a real version of Seth Rollins. This " gimmick " and it is, all gimmick, it is painful. The ridiculous outfits have ran its course.

Did WWE hire the Young Bucks too and not tell anyone? Because WWE is leaking a ton of backstage rumors that in AEW were attributed to the Bucks. Oddly it all seems to be about Punk as well. Punk being the biggest name that WWE could have for a TV deal, WBD dropping AEW because they want Punk back, Punk being next in line after HBK to take both NXT and the performance center, everyone backstage welcoming Punk with open arms and admiration after trashing him just months ago.

Let go of the grudge buddy.

Add Booker T to the long list of endorsements.

Booker T talks about seeing CM Punk at NXT Deadline.

"CM Punk wasn't hiding. He wasn't hidden away in some room making a surprise appearance. He was running around and mingling. I ran into CM Punk in catering. Was sitting there talking to Jeremy Borash. I walked up to CM Punk and said, 'CM Punk! What up man?!?' He stands up and he goes, 'What's up, man? You flip flopper' [laughs]. I go, 'You know how the business is, sometimes you're a heel, sometimes you're a babyface.' [laughs]. It was very cool. We talked, small talk, he seemed to be at peace and ready to re-write the legacy of CM Punk and finish it off properly."

(Hall of Fame Podcast)