Jan 18, 2019 0:06:34 GMT @admin said:

It's interesting that you guys seem to think the tone of the ad is accusatory towards all men. I didn't get that vibe at all, and clearly neither did a number of the others posting here. It's almost as if you have some repressed guilt regarding some of the things it's talking about.

If you made an ad that suggested "some Muslims weren't terrorists"
Would you think any Muslim who took issue with the generalization was a closet paid-up member of ISIS?

Most people aren't arguing against holding other men accountable.
The issue is the starting point that most men aren't doing this.
If we were going to make inflammatory statements, we could say that those who don't take issue with the ad are already indoctrinated to be ashamed of their gender.  :rolleyes:

Drawing  battle lines in the war against masculinity actually hurts feminism as it is creating an additional barrier between the sexes.
Men and Women are 100% Equal and completely fundamentally and until we get past that sticking point, we are doomed into an endless battle of the sexes.
Women look at young boys wrestling and cannot understand it, that does not make it wrong and it does not make the behavior a product of their environment.

You've made the claim in this thread saying things like the 'overwhelming majority of men are already doing these things' or 'most men aren't doing this'. There are 7.8 billion people in the world, that's a pretty bold claim to make and sadly, one I feel that just isn't true. 

Jan 18, 2019 0:22:50 GMT iNCY said:

The issue is the starting point that most men aren't doing this.

Most is a difficult word to quantify, but acting like there isn't a problem here is pretty naive. You only have to look at the numerous examples of other Hollywood actors who defended/refusing to criticise/tiptoed around the behaviour of those who had been accused.

Jan 18, 2019 0:38:25 GMT iron maiden said:

You've made the claim in this thread saying things like the 'overwhelming majority of men are already doing these things' or 'most men aren't doing this'. There are 7.8 billion people in the world, that's a pretty bold claim to make and sadly, one I feel that just isn't true. 

It's a pretty bold claim for America, given the behavior exhibited is routinely common occurrences (living in NYC, the hooting and hollering culture is real and prevalent).

Most people are safe drivers; we don't get offended when we see safe driving PSAs.

Most people don't drive drunk; we don't get offended when a STRAIGHT WHITE MALE gets in a car drunk in a commercial (or is stopped by his friend).

Tell a guy to not let boys fight; protect a kid from getting bullied; or stop an unwanted come on? Holy shit, they might as well castrate every man because that's feminist bullshit and how dare they try to lump me in with that behavior??? 

Watch company response

Also, I want to call this out: The message of the ad isn't that EVERY GUY acts this way. The message of the ad is that all of the guys that don't behave this way have a responsibility to stomp out this behavior when they see it. That's why the foil to every negative action is another man.

I've seen enough teen movies to suggest all teenage girls are evil human-beings that participates in a toxic culture of vile bullying, criminal levels of harassment and some well orchestrated social warfare - who will openly and honestly stab a friend in the back and destroy a reputation for little more than maintaining status and social hierarchy.

Having been a young person once, I've seen enough evidence in the past to support these statements, and more. And for some, this is true. But to suggest all teenage girls are defined by this statement is insane.

Sums up why this campaign was such a disaster.

Not even close. Good try though.

The Venn diagram for people who are angry about this ad and people who completely misunderstood the message of the ad is a circle.

Jan 18, 2019 2:13:57 GMT KJ said:

Not even close. Good try though.

Why is this commercial failing then?

Jan 18, 2019 2:22:17 GMT System said:

Jan 18, 2019 2:13:57 GMT KJ said:

Not even close. Good try though.

Why is this commercial failing then?

You can’t define failure of an ad by likes and dislikes. See: Kaepernick, Nike

Overall business performance will dictate success or failure.

Also, the ad literally calls no one a rapist.

Jan 18, 2019 2:22:17 GMT System said:

Jan 18, 2019 2:13:57 GMT KJ said:

Not even close. Good try though.

Why is this commercial failing then?

You can’t define failure of an ad by likes and dislikes. See: Kaepernick, Nike

Overall business performance will dictate success or failure.

Also, the ad literally calls no one a rapist.

I’m amused by the snowflakes that are so upset over a commercial.

As with most cases like this, I can’t fathom people getting upset over this ad. I dont feel accused of being a bad person behind it. It’s a little preachy, but meh that’s their prerogative to spend their money to be preachy if they want to be.

Jan 18, 2019 2:17:13 GMT RT said:

The Venn diagram for people who are angry about this ad and people who completely misunderstood the message of the ad is a circle.

*steals this line*

Jan 18, 2019 0:38:25 GMT iron maiden said:

You've made the claim in this thread saying things like the 'overwhelming majority of men are already doing these things' or 'most men aren't doing this'. There are 7.8 billion people in the world, that's a pretty bold claim to make and sadly, one I feel that just isn't true. 

For sure it was a stretch what I said... What percentage of Gillettes consumer base then?

Jan 18, 2019 0:42:54 GMT @admin said:

Jan 18, 2019 0:22:50 GMT iNCY said:

The issue is the starting point that most men aren't doing this.

Most is a difficult word to quantify, but acting like there isn't a problem here is pretty naive. You only have to look at the numerous examples of other Hollywood actors who defended/refusing to criticise/tiptoed around the behaviour of those who had been accused.

Actors both Male and Female, victims both Male and Female.
This isn't related to gender, it's related to power.
Also interesting to note the number of female actors who got their breaks in Weinstein movies have been deathly silent on the issue.
How many saw the price and were willing to pay it?

Jan 18, 2019 1:36:45 GMT KJ said:

Jan 18, 2019 0:38:25 GMT iron maiden said:

You've made the claim in this thread saying things like the 'overwhelming majority of men are already doing these things' or 'most men aren't doing this'. There are 7.8 billion people in the world, that's a pretty bold claim to make and sadly, one I feel that just isn't true. 

It's a pretty bold claim for America, given the behavior exhibited is routinely common occurrences (living in NYC, the hooting and hollering culture is real and prevalent).

Most people are safe drivers; we don't get offended when we see safe driving PSAs.

Most people don't drive drunk; we don't get offended when a STRAIGHT WHITE MALE gets in a car drunk in a commercial (or is stopped by his friend).

Tell a guy to not let boys fight; protect a kid from getting bullied; or stop an unwanted come on? Holy shit, they might as well castrate every man because that's feminist bullshit and how dare they try to lump me in with that behavior??? 

Jan 18, 2019 1:39:14 GMT KJ said:

Also, I want to call this out: The message of the ad isn't that EVERY GUY acts this way. The message of the ad is that all of the guys that don't behave this way have a responsibility to stomp out this behavior when they see it. That's why the foil to every negative action is another man.

Are you honestly unable to see how the add suggests that more men do the wrong thing than the right thing? They literally say "Some men are doing something, but it is not enough" If they said "Most" or even "Many" it would have eased the jarring nature of the language.

Same at the BBQ with an endless stream of men saying Boys will be boys.

Most men would let boys wrestle, nearly all men wouldn't let them full blown throw punches.

Jan 18, 2019 2:17:13 GMT RT said:

The Venn diagram for people who are angry about this ad and people who completely misunderstood the message of the ad is a circle.

No, it's not.
Personally, I understand the advertisement just fine.
Just old enough to remember when being a man didn't imply that I was responsible for the actions of roughly half the world's populaiton.

Jan 18, 2019 2:26:09 GMT KJ said:

Jan 18, 2019 2:22:17 GMT System said:

Why is this commercial failing then?

You can’t define failure of an ad by likes and dislikes. See: Kaepernick, Nike

Overall business performance will dictate success or failure.

Also, the ad literally calls no one a rapist.

I agree that nobody was called a razor, I also think this is going to hurt Gillette.
At the end of the day people are very passionate about their shoes, if someone can get as good a shave from somewhere else, it doesn't really matter the brand on the side.

I don’t believe most men are standing up to other men, and that’s why we have the culture we have. What’s okay and not okay has already changed radically in my lifetime. This ad isn’t about “quit this shit, you dicks” it’s about telling men to say “quit this shit, you dicks” to other men.

BTW - you’re 100% it’s about power and not just men abusing women. Fun fact, Terry Crewes was speaking on a male predator that went after him.

P&G will be just fine when all is said and done.

Jan 18, 2019 2:38:50 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 18, 2019 0:42:54 GMT @admin said:

Most is a difficult word to quantify, but acting like there isn't a problem here is pretty naive. You only have to look at the numerous examples of other Hollywood actors who defended/refusing to criticise/tiptoed around the behaviour of those who had been accused.

Actors both Male and Female, victims both Male and Female.
This isn't related to gender, it's related to power.
Also interesting to note the number of female actors who got their breaks in Weinstein movies have been deathly silent on the issue.
How many saw the price and were willing to pay it?

OK, that's fine about it not being specifically a gender issue - but it doesn't negate what I said. The fact that you have famous actors coming out saying they knew what people like Harvey Weinstein were doing but did nothing about it is exactly why behaviour like that has been allowed to occur - and that's exactly what this ad is talking about! We/everyone/men can do better!

Your second point there is an perfect example of this too - justifying/defending bad behaviour instead of condemning it.

First off; KJ lives in New York?!?! Since when?! Where?!

Second off, what a bitch made commercial. My God. The people coming up with these commercials are probably men (and I use that word looser then the chick walking around with her cleavage popping out in a short skirt being whistled at) that got picked on their whole life. Men who didn’t even have the balls to stand up for themselves. Men with zero idea of what real men want and are just a bunch of clowns with a degree in marketing who want to appeal to each other’s skin tight jean wearing bitch made personalities. This shit is made by someone who wants that chick on the team to notice him, but she won’t notice him because his pants are up to his belly button and he has absolutely no game. She wants the man she goes home to and gets bent over by who has a tattoo of a sexy looking Betty Boop on his chest surrounded by skulls and a beard that she can hang on to.

This new generation of men is making it super easy for real men to get laid. And fuck Gillette. Liberal cock huggers.

... Kid just proving the Gillette point as per the norm.

I lived in NYC. Don’t anymore. Upper West Side. You asked me to hang out. I declined.

Oh. I recall the decline, but not you living there. You obviously don’t grow facial hair.

Jan 18, 2019 3:59:14 GMT mikec said:

... Kid just proving the Gillette point as per the norm.

I don’t bully people. I don’t beat defenseless people up. So no I’m not proving no point. A woman gets treated like a woman by me. A thot gets treated like a thot. Telling a girl she’s beautiful doesn’t make you a rapist. That ad was super ridiculous and super irrelevant to the product.

It’s soyboys (I’m using it!) who end up getting screwed over by women who are savages anyways. Wait until this dude Bezos gets another fortune taken from him for being a clown of a man. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Look at that man and look who he thinks loves him. Dudes a moron just like that Kardashian dude who impregnated a stripper and thought she loved him. These are the type of dudes who get played.

I just don’t get why we act like women aren’t equally as horrible and caniving in their own ways. But we’ll make commercials talking about how horrible men (mostly white men) are. Fucking sexist, racist bullshit coming out of the clowns who preach equality. Fuck out of here.

Look up Levi wokes.

Jan 17, 2019 12:56:16 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 17, 2019 7:01:04 GMT Call said:

It's really quite simple to me.

If an ad with the basic message of "Hey, maybe don't be such a dick to women, mates and colleagues/students" angers/offends you, maybe spend some time to try and figure out why that is.

Think for example if the add showed pictures of Black men selling drugs, shooting each other and abandoning their children.. Followed by the line "We know some black men don't do these things,but it's not enough..."
Now imagine the ad was made by a middle-aged white guy.
Outrage universally!

Starting here, nice dive into a whataboutism. We're not specifically talking about specifically black people here. In reality I asked a very simple question and instead of answering that question, you dived into something completely new.

System Throwing around terms like soyboy isn't going to get anyone anywhere and just create more of a divide. That's one of the big problems, the sides are so reluctant to hear each other out, there's no middle ground these days. A Youtube video having a number of dislikes doesn't mean as much as you seem to be insinuating. It's a click of a button that takes a second. If nothing else, that is virtue signalling. Let's assume the video gets 1 million dislikes, 1 million seconds= outrage lasting a cumulative total of 11.57 days which you can round up to 12 days if you wish, less then 2 weeks.

Sidenote: You didn't mention the 506k likes it has did you, only focusing on the negative

I'm not going to multi-quote KJ but just state that everything he's said so far, I 100% agree with.

At the end of the day, the ad is simply saying "Don't be a dick" You can put all sorts of other stuff on it but it has a very simple message that shouldn't be too hard to work with

The great prophet of our times has weighed in, case closed.
18:06

We should definitely listen to the guy who yells homophobic and racist slurs on his stream.

Jan 18, 2019 4:53:36 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 18, 2019 3:59:14 GMT mikec said:

... Kid just proving the Gillette point as per the norm.

I don’t bully people. I don’t beat defenseless people up. So no I’m not proving no point. A woman gets treated like a woman by me. A thot gets treated like a thot. Telling a girl she’s beautiful doesn’t make you a rapist. That ad was super ridiculous and super irrelevant to the product.

It’s soyboys (I’m using it!) who end up getting screwed over by women who are savages anyways. Wait until this dude Bezos gets another fortune taken from him for being a clown of a man. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Look at that man and look who he thinks loves him. Dudes a moron just like that Kardashian dude who impregnated a stripper and thought she loved him. These are the type of dudes who get played.

I just don’t get why we act like women aren’t equally as horrible and caniving in their own ways. But we’ll make commercials talking about how horrible men (mostly white men) are. Fucking sexist, racist bullshit coming out of the clowns who preach equality. Fuck out of here.

Same reason sitcoms and commercials showcase men as bumbling idiots and women as heroes... they're marketing to those that spend money. Women control consumer spending, so they're naturally pandered to. We act like men are bad and they aren't for two reasons. 1. Women vote. and 2. Women are the ones who create human life aka future tax payers. I forget the full phrase, but it something like to know who is your master find out out who you are not allowed to criticize.

And I gotta be honest Kid... I'm a little surprised you ended up with a wife and a kid. I figured you were more of a Leo type that just traded in a new model every few years without tying yourself down. Dude's a hero that way.

Isn't soyboy just the new way of getting away with calling people fags? Because that really helps you in an argument about being toxic.

Jan 18, 2019 10:14:38 GMT Zoinks McJinkies said:

Isn't soyboy just the new way of getting away with calling people fags? Because that really helps you in an argument about being toxic.

Not at all.  I've never heard the term used to refer to a homosexual men.   It actually takes quite a bit of balls to live as an openly gay man, especially considering there are still many parts of the world where it can get you killed.  Most of us will acknowledge that. 

The term soyboy usually refers to heterosexual men that are seen as weak and having effeminate qualities.   Most often I've heard it used to refer to present college kids that needs space spaces and complain about crap like micro-aggressions and cultural appropriation.