“Bullies.” :lol:

Can someone be a MAN and come defend me?

I don’t want no problems and KJ is mocking me!

Cmon! Anyone?! Grab some Gillette sticks, light them up like torches and get this man!

You’re mocking your own comment. It’s hilarious.

Is the inverse of the bullying comment true, where someone says be a man, be proud of who you are, be you no matter what so long as you don’t disagree with his silly online caricature of a personality?

For the record, I have no problem being an asshole to people over their stupid opinions on a discussion board. I’ve been an asshole to people I thought were wrong for many years on here (and received some back). It’s not quite what you’re grasping for.

I’m mocking the mindset that inspired you bought to you by Gillette. While simultaneously calling the soy boys hypocrites.

Jan 19, 2019 21:20:13 GMT KING KID said:

I wasn’t insulated growing up. I was around everything as I live in diverse NY. I’m also well aware that my life in America was easier living in a diverse city instead of a very white part of America that don’t like Muslims or “weird” names. I’m totally understanding, aware and cool with it.

However, I’m totally pro-man, pro-America in the aspect of people need to respect the country they live in. Be proud of who you are no matter what. Be nice to one another. Stop telling people what to do and think.

Funny how some (KJ/MikeC/UT for example) are so against bullies and are complete internet bullies when someone disagrees with them. Especially politics and lifestyles. Mike to a lesser extent. Still, as we learned here, words such as less and most mean shit and are objective. I’m just saying, at least I’m me 100% of the time whether you agree or disagree.

It's funny how people are today... 
You think you have the right to an opinion and that you have the right to have it accepted. 
You don't, you have a freedom to speak and people have the freedom to disagree. 

I don't care whether or not someone agrees with me, I care about how rigid their argument and logic is. 
It's why you and I are not on the same side of this debate. 
I think your attitudes to women are disgusting and you trying to defend your views as masculinity are an embarrassment.
I disagree with lots of people about many things but still like and respect them... I can also not like someone and respect their argument. 


Still waiting for someone to debate my last post.  (H)

This entire discussion offends me, which means you're all wrong.

Agreed

Current Gillette video dislike is at 1.1M

(H)

Jan 20, 2019 1:14:40 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 19, 2019 21:20:13 GMT KING KID said:

I wasn’t insulated growing up. I was around everything as I live in diverse NY. I’m also well aware that my life in America was easier living in a diverse city instead of a very white part of America that don’t like Muslims or “weird” names. I’m totally understanding, aware and cool with it.

However, I’m totally pro-man, pro-America in the aspect of people need to respect the country they live in. Be proud of who you are no matter what. Be nice to one another. Stop telling people what to do and think.

Funny how some (KJ/MikeC/UT for example) are so against bullies and are complete internet bullies when someone disagrees with them. Especially politics and lifestyles. Mike to a lesser extent. Still, as we learned here, words such as less and most mean shit and are objective. I’m just saying, at least I’m me 100% of the time whether you agree or disagree.

It's funny how people are today... 
You think you have the right to an opinion and that you have the right to have it accepted. 
You don't, you have a freedom to speak and people have the freedom to disagree. 

I don't care whether or not someone agrees with me, I care about how rigid their argument and logic is. 
It's why you and I are not on the same side of this debate. 
I think your attitudes to women are disgusting and you trying to defend your views as masculinity are an embarrassment.
I disagree with lots of people about many things but still like and respect them... I can also not like someone and respect their argument. 


Still waiting for someone to debate my last post.  (H)

I’m not sure if the first part is you coming at me, because I don’t think it is.

But I’m curious to know what you think my views to women are.

Such a cool commercial, wish I posted it myself.

This thread is still going? It’s been a week, guys. For such an unsuccessful ad people sure do like talking about it.

Jan 20, 2019 14:45:49 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 20, 2019 1:14:40 GMT iNCY said:

It's funny how people are today... 
You think you have the right to an opinion and that you have the right to have it accepted. 
You don't, you have a freedom to speak and people have the freedom to disagree. 

I don't care whether or not someone agrees with me, I care about how rigid their argument and logic is. 
It's why you and I are not on the same side of this debate. 
I think your attitudes to women are disgusting and you trying to defend your views as masculinity are an embarrassment.
I disagree with lots of people about many things but still like and respect them... I can also not like someone and respect their argument. 


Still waiting for someone to debate my last post. 

I’m not sure if the first part is you coming at me, because I don’t think it is.

But I’m curious to know what you think my views to women are.

I'm not coming at you, if I was... You would need Preparation H just to sit at the PC.
I do think your attitudes to women are an utter disgrace and if what you post here is a reflection of your views and not bravado, then you are likely a piece of shit.
That's not me coming at you, that's said with the same venom I would use to describe the colour of the sky.... If the sky was brown I guess.  :suspic:

You have said here, that you decide how to treat a woman based on how she acts "You  treat a thot like a thot"
If you were a man you would afford all women the same respect that you would have shown to a daughter of yours.
If you don't respect a woman, then don't have anything to do with her, but there is not a class of woman that is there for you to use and abuse based on how you view them.

That's the way I view things, but I am not a 3rd wave feminist.

Jan 20, 2019 21:40:54 GMT RT said:

This thread is still going? It’s been a week, guys. For such an unsuccessful ad people sure do like talking about it.

I know... It's almost like a discussion forum is being used for... What would you call it... "Discussion?"  :lol:

After watching the videos in this thread I need to go clear my youtube history or else I"m gonna be flooded with MRA and Jordan peterson nonsense.

The problem with the label's like 'toxic masculinity' and 'the patriarchy' is that shit's too complicated for men to understand. Stick to saying things like, 'don't be a dick'.

Totally don't understand the commercial. How does it help sell razor blades?

Also, this comment was rather useless and I barely even read the thread.

Jan 21, 2019 0:26:48 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 20, 2019 14:45:49 GMT KING KID said:

I’m not sure if the first part is you coming at me, because I don’t think it is.

But I’m curious to know what you think my views to women are.

I'm not coming at you, if I was... You would need Preparation H just to sit at the PC.
I do think your attitudes to women are an utter disgrace and if what you post here is a reflection of your views and not bravado, then you are likely a piece of shit.
That's not me coming at you, that's said with the same venom I would use to describe the colour of the sky.... If the sky was brown I guess.  :suspic:

You have said here, that you decide how to treat a woman based on how she acts "You  treat a thot like a thot"
If you were a man you would afford all women the same respect that you would have shown to a daughter of yours.
If you don't respect a woman, then don't have anything to do with her, but there is not a class of woman that is there for you to use and abuse based on how you view them.

That's the way I view things, but I am not a 3rd wave feminist.

Jan 20, 2019 21:40:54 GMT RT said:

This thread is still going? It’s been a week, guys. For such an unsuccessful ad people sure do like talking about it.

I know... It's almost like a discussion forum is being used for... What would you call it... "Discussion?"  :lol:

First off, no PC here. All mobile, kid!

Second off, my opinion is act how you want to be treated. If you are classy, you’ll be treated classy. If you’re acting and dressing like a slit, then you’ll be treated like one. I don’t understand why I would have to be the one to not reap from the benefits of a girl who doesn’t mind having sex. Just like if I found $50 on the floor, I’m going to keep it and use it. Not wait for someone else to take it and enjoy it.

I guess I’m an opportunist, but so what? It’s a land of snakes, wolves and sharks and I’m not going to be a sheep.

Jan 21, 2019 1:16:50 GMT KING KID said:

Second off, my opinion is act how you want to be treated. If you are classy, you’ll be treated classy. If you’re acting and dressing like a slit, then you’ll be treated like one. I don’t understand why I would have to be the one to not reap from the benefits of a girl who doesn’t mind having sex. Just like if I found $50 on the floor, I’m going to keep it and use it. Not wait for someone else to take it and enjoy it.

I guess I’m an opportunist, but so what? It’s a land of snakes, wolves and sharks and I’m not going to be a sheep.

Probably everything that is wrong with your attitudes to women is that you would liken one to a $50 note you found on the floor.
I'm not actually speaking about casual sex with a female, I am referring to the way you see a certain type of woman as having no worth beyond your sexual gratification.

🧐

That just serves the whole point of the ad tbh.

What does the women wearing the logo on their ass have to do with toxic masculinity? I thought toxic masculinity was when men are bad because we don't talk about our feelings. What's admiring the female form got to do with that?

You're right nazzer, for a long time, my understanding and I would guess, the acceptable definition or the one theory discussed the most was, the term "toxic masculinity" referring to stereotypically masculine gender roles that restrict the kinds of emotions allowable for boys and men to express, including social expectations that men seek to be dominant, and limit their emotional range primarily to expressions of anger.

Simply put, men have feelings too and don't/won't/can't express them. I think we, PW have spoken in some detail around the burden that many men carry as the sole bread winner, the provider and the feelings of guilt, despair and depression when failing to live up to these expectations. Especially in rural or regional areas, that see a large percentage of the local male population working in farming, factory and associated industries, in often dire situations.

One could argue, that attacks, on what is it to be a "man", the suppression of conversations regarding men's/father's rights, and continual re-education around pronouns and ridiculous PC language does little to aid in addressing this "toxic masculinity" and more in alienating the blue-collar, working class man.  

I didn’t read every comment, so I am probably repeating a lot of what has been said, but I can understand both point of views when it comes to the ad.
On one hand I understand why men (and women) are getting upset over the ad, I find the people that have been most upset have a man (or multiple) in their life that would fit the criteria the ad is trying to sway against and these people become quite sensitive and opposed to the ad as they do not want to be assigned the same character as the other person. You don’t even have to know the people personally to be uncomfortable to be categoried with them, eg. Weinstein/Kevin spacey as the Me Too movement is mentioned.

On the other hand, I can understand why some people aren’t fazed by the ad at all. If you don’t buy razors, if you don’t buy Gillette, If you don’t have a person like that if your life, if you know without a doubt you aren’t that person - it doesn’t really affect you at all etc.

I hate many ads targeted towards women offensive that most people thought were empowering eg. like a girl campaign from a few years ago.

Looking at the ad by itself from a PR standpoint. It’s a bad ad because it’s not selling the product they want to sell = Gillette/razors.

From another PR standpoint, is it a successful campaign or not? People are STILL talking about it, which means yeah it was “successful” to get people talking, but is it successful with their sales...
I honestly don’t think they were trying to get people to buy their razors from this ad, I think they wanted to make an impact and get people talking and they did.

I don’t necessarily approve of the ad because it’s from Gillette - their ads should be about razors. This ad should’ve came from family clinics/men health care etc.

The people who are upset have a right to be. The people who like the ad have a right to, but the wording could’ve been better in the message they were trying to present.

Bottom line, if masculinity was so toxic, then kids growing up without dads would be better off than kids that have fathers. Instead it's been scientifically proven that kids growing up without fathers are far more likely to be involved in violent crime, far more likely to be arrested and less likely to form healthy relationships and attachments.

So Gillette can pretty much suck it.

Jan 21, 2019 16:22:31 GMT thereallt said:

Bottom line, if masculinity was so toxic, then kids growing up without dads would be better off than kids that have fathers. Instead it's been scientifically proven that kids growing up without fathers are far more likely to be involved in violent crime, far more likely to be arrested and less likely to form healthy relationships and attachments.

So Gillette can pretty much suck it.

Does that have anything to do with masculinity? Pretty sure it's the single parent/broken home climate. I'd expect studies on kids growing up without mothers to turn up similar results.

Jan 21, 2019 21:55:16 GMT Emperor said:

Jan 21, 2019 16:22:31 GMT thereallt said:

Bottom line, if masculinity was so toxic, then kids growing up without dads would be better off than kids that have fathers. Instead it's been scientifically proven that kids growing up without fathers are far more likely to be involved in violent crime, far more likely to be arrested and less likely to form healthy relationships and attachments.

So Gillette can pretty much suck it.

Does that have anything to do with masculinity? Pretty sure it's the single parent/broken home climate. I'd expect studies on kids growing up without mothers to turn up similar results.

Yes but no one is accusing women of being "toxic" with their femininity.       No one denies the importance of women in the family household but men and fathers are being treated like we are completely expendable.    

Jan 22, 2019 0:16:32 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 21, 2019 21:55:16 GMT Emperor said:

Does that have anything to do with masculinity? Pretty sure it's the single parent/broken home climate. I'd expect studies on kids growing up without mothers to turn up similar results.

Yes but no one is accusing women of being "toxic" with their femininity.       No one denies the importance of women in the family household but men and fathers are being treated like we are completely expendable.    

You got this just from the ad? Or is someone else saying this stuff?

Yeah he’s really stretching the message to something that just doesn’t exist in the commercial.

Jan 22, 2019 3:55:42 GMT mikec said:

Yeah he’s really stretching the message to something that just doesn’t exist in the commercial.

Just like everyone else complaining about the ad.

The anger and complaining and dislikes all point to the same thing: a lot of men don't like hearing that they could always improve, or heard something that didn't exist in the ad.

And the best part is, all this outrage has just made the ad way more popular than it ever deserved to be.

I always assumed a good chunk of outrage and maybe what lt is getting at is you would never in a million years see a Tampax version of the Gillette issue. I would love to witness the outrage of Venus telling women they can do better.

Dads are treated like an afterthought though and it shows in their holiday. Going to red lobster on mom day? Good luck. Dad day? Immediate seating lol. Don't get me started on that comical idea that single moms should get to celebrate father's day. Men are disposable in society. It's hard to debate otherwise when it's so in your face with examples.

Saw this great analogy the other day about toxic masculinity and mushroom burgers.

Mushroom burgers are a type of burger. Not all hamburgers are of the mushroom variety; in fact most burgers don't have mushrooms on them.

Similarly, toxic masculinity is a type of masculinity, acknowledging it exists is hardly saying all expression of being a man is toxic any more than all burgers have mushrooms.

Part of the issue is that toxic masculinity is ill-defined; I think it would help to look at the goal. Looking at what's been done with femininity and women redefining what it means to be a woman -- as much as it made sandylea roll her eyes 'throw like a girl' is pretty much exactly what they want to do with men now.

Girls can run. Girls can fight in MMA. Girls can go into STEM. Girls can want to become stay-at-home moms. Your gender doesn't control what you can or cannot do.

And when you think about it, there's a lot as guys that we are and aren't supposed to be. Guys don't cry. Guys can't be interior designers or stay at home dads. Can't like frilly or lacy things. Side-eyed if our wives make more than we do. Can't use peach-smelling lotion. FFS, we couldn't use those (awesome) plastic shower poufs til superbros Axe came out with a 'shower detailing tool.' We're pretty fragile.

Jan 19, 2019 3:50:16 GMT System said:

Of course the dislikes are an orchestrated attack on the video, not the general consensus ..despite the comments on both YT/FB being overwhelmingly negative and from people from very varying backgrounds.

Also interesting that the people in this thread are from predominantly white areas/have only white friends and are the most preachy about racism & political correctness.

I'm technically from a predominantly white city (51% white, 49% minorities) and definitely don't have only white friends.

Also, are you saying online brigading isn't a thing? Or that if online communities didn't exist then over a million people would independently decide to seek out a freakin' razor commercial and take the time to downvote and comment on it? Like, I didn't know this ad was even a thing until I read about the backlash against it.

(Online brigading goes both ways, BTW. The counter-protestors are upvoting in droves and the like:dislike ratio is 775k to 1.2 mil the last I checked and you cannot say with a straight face that like 2 million people are REALLY REALLY passionate about an ad.)

Jan 19, 2019 5:41:08 GMT iNCY said:

The definition of masculinity is "Qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men."
If there are behaviours exhibited by a small minority of men, then I don't accept that they can be referred to as "masculinity". That's why my analogy of the chair is correct.
If some Muslims advocate terrorism as a form of Jihad under Islam, does that make terrorism a part of Islam? 

It would make it toxic Islam, or we generally refer to it as radical Islam. So yes, it is called out and is deliberately referred to as not all expression of Islam.

Jan 21, 2019 5:35:13 GMT System said:

🧐

That feel when you had to scroll back eight years to find a picture to prove your point.

Jan 24, 2019 17:10:14 GMT @ness said:

I always assumed a good chunk of outrage and maybe what lt is getting at is you would never in a million years see a Tampax version of the Gillette issue. I would love to witness the outrage of Venus telling women they can do better.

You mean like every ad we've been subjected to since we've been born about being the perfect woman? No, we wouldn't know what that's like at all. :rolleyes: