Jan 18, 2019 10:14:38 GMT Zoinks McJinkies said:

Isn't soyboy just the new way of getting away with calling people fags? Because that really helps you in an argument about being toxic.

" Slang, used to describe males who completely and utterly lack all necessary masculine qualities. This pathetic state is usually achieved by an over-indulgence of emasculating products and/or ideologies.

The origin of the term derives from the negative effects soy consumption has been proven to have on the male physique and libido. "

- Urban Dictionary.

" Associated with the alt-right, soyboy is an insult used online for men seen as effeminate liberals. It comes from the myth that consuming soy products lowers testerone levels in a man. "

- Dictionary.com

It’s been astonishing to see the alt right slant of this board over the last two years.

Jan 18, 2019 12:01:39 GMT KJ said:

It’s been astonishing to see the alt right slant of this board over the last two years.

Primarily white males on here, shouldn’t be that surprising...

Jan 18, 2019 12:01:39 GMT KJ said:

It’s been astonishing to see the alt right slant of this board over the last two years.

I'm not at-right, I'm a centrist...  Plus I enjoy a good debate. 
For the record I believe in:
Single payer health care
Equal opportunity 
Diversity
Two state solution in Israel
Free trade
Workers rights
Anti-death penalty

Fiscally, I am conservative.  :rockin:

I'm actually kinda glad stuff like this is getting people to talk. Seems more are waking up to the media's open (and arguably encouraging) misandry. Lots of talk about reverse the sexes in things like the Katy Perry kiss or the dozens of female teachers that get slap on the wrists for raping students.

Not that anything will change. Men's problems only become an issue when they affect women (society at large). And maybe that's toxic masculinity and needs to be dealt with. But when you see posters saying a drunk male student can consent when his female counter cannot or 1 in 4 homeless are women and that's a problem, things like MGTOW and opting out just seem more appealing to a large number of guys.

I have no idea what MGTOW means. I'm too afraid to Google it.

The fact a Gillette ad has instilled comments of "soyboy" and other aggressive commentary - and yet I can't find many people that disagrees with the idea men should behave the way they're advocating - leaves me completely confused.

We live in this bizarre world where if you say "this action isn't good enough," nothing is good enough. Saying men should stand up and set an example is suddenly bad; but if that ad aired 30 years ago it would be a fucking classic with the exact same message.

The (alt) right continues to be one of the biggest over-reactors to shit like this (or a God damn Starbucks coffee cup) I've ever seen. The left has pockets that lose their shit over inconsequential shit, but mostly the things that motivate the base as a whole are around human rights, equality, race relations, etc. The right goes off on anything that says "hey, we should all be better or inclusive" as if it's a direct commentary on them (when in the case of Gillette or Starbucks, it's most definitely not).

Jan 18, 2019 13:21:03 GMT mikec said:

Jan 18, 2019 12:01:39 GMT KJ said:

It’s been astonishing to see the alt right slant of this board over the last two years.

Primarily white males on here, shouldn’t be that surprising...

Like 95% of my friends are straight, white males ... it's not a common position with them despite most of us being St. Louis hoosiers.

Jan 18, 2019 13:21:03 GMT mikec said:

Jan 18, 2019 12:01:39 GMT KJ said:

It’s been astonishing to see the alt right slant of this board over the last two years.

Primarily white males on here, shouldn’t be that surprising...

Here we go. Another racist soy boy post.

KJ it’s a group called “Men Going Their Own Way”

MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way. - Men so burned by bad relationships with women that they see going solo as a better option.

FYI- I voted for Hilary over Trump. Just in case there was any question of my slant. I wanted taco trucks on every corner because tacos are amazing.  And not identifying as white.  Multiracial mutt.

Jan 18, 2019 14:41:44 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 18, 2019 13:21:03 GMT mikec said:

Primarily white males on here, shouldn’t be that surprising...

Here we go. Another racist soy boy post.

It's like watching my toddler learning a new word.

Jan 18, 2019 15:29:56 GMT KJ said:

Jan 18, 2019 14:41:44 GMT KING KID said:

Here we go. Another racist soy boy post.

It's like watching my toddler learning a new word.

Lol! That made me chuckle.

I’m whole milk bro. Fuck soy!

You know what pisses me off though?

I’m tired of people trying to tell me what to do and what to feel. I was supposed to be felt sorry for or ashamed to be a Muslim when I was 13 years old because of the WTC. Now, I’m 30 and I’m supposed to feel bad and be ashamed to be a white man. Fuck that.

Too many people ashamed of themselves or want to be a part of something because The Wonder Years song makes you feel powerful. Now it’s the opposite of the lyrics. Because I’m the one singing out of tune and Gillette, Nike and the left are trying to walk out on me.

(I actually hate soy too)

No one is saying being a man is bad.

Being a bully is bad.

Fighting (by and large) is bad.

Sexually harassing women (and it's their criteria of what qualifies as harassment, not yours) is bad.

We all agree on these things, right?

Jan 18, 2019 19:15:30 GMT KJ said:

(I actually hate soy too)

No one is saying being a man is bad.

Being a bully is bad.

Fighting (by and large) is bad.

Sexually harassing women (and it's their criteria of what qualifies as harassment, not yours) is bad.

We all agree on these things, right?

Umm no, the Attitude era ruled.  

As a straight white man living in white as fuck Iowa, I don’t think people should be ashamed to be a white man. I’m not. I do think it’s a little embarrassing that so many people that look like me are trying to pull this victimized bullshit though.

Also I haven’t eaten soy since whatever I was fed in high school that was presented as “hamburger patty” but really couldn’t have been.

Jan 18, 2019 20:37:27 GMT theend said:

Jan 18, 2019 19:15:30 GMT KJ said:

(I actually hate soy too)

No one is saying being a man is bad.

Being a bully is bad.

Fighting (by and large) is bad.

Sexually harassing women (and it's their criteria of what qualifies as harassment, not yours) is bad.

We all agree on these things, right?

Umm no, the Attitude era ruled.  

BRO!

Does soy sauce count as soy?

Or does all the sodium negate the soy effects?

Asking for a friend.

How I feel coming back onto this board after like a month:

So we have:

 - Posters saying toxic masculinity isn't a thing while also unironically calling people soyboys (since, y'know, REAL MEN eat meat), on a board dedicated to an art form that once had five male cheerleaders seen as inherently unlikable heels.

 - Pointing at Youtube dislikes as an indicator of real trends, like online polling can't be brigaded (Boaty McBoatface, getting a even then decade-old song near the top of the MTV chart, that time the Internet wanted Taylor Swift to perform at a school for the deaf)

 - People not realizing that ads have ALWAYS sold a lifestyle and an ideal, and for some reason choosing to view "we challenge society to strive for better" as a deep personal insult

Did I miss anything?

Jan 18, 2019 4:53:36 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 18, 2019 3:59:14 GMT mikec said:

... Kid just proving the Gillette point as per the norm.

I don’t bully people. I don’t beat defenseless people up. So no I’m not proving no point. A woman gets treated like a woman by me. A thot gets treated like a thot. Telling a girl she’s beautiful doesn’t make you a rapist. That ad was super ridiculous and super irrelevant to the product.

It’s soyboys (I’m using it!) who end up getting screwed over by women who are savages anyways. Wait until this dude Bezos gets another fortune taken from him for being a clown of a man. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Look at that man and look who he thinks loves him. Dudes a moron just like that Kardashian dude who impregnated a stripper and thought she loved him. These are the type of dudes who get played.

I just don’t get why we act like women aren’t equally as horrible and caniving in their own ways. But we’ll make commercials talking about how horrible men (mostly white men) are. Fucking sexist, racist bullshit coming out of the clowns who preach equality. Fuck out of here.

Telling a girl she's beautiful doesn't make you a rapist, but read the room, yo. She was moving quickly, purposefully and not hanging around to smell the roses; does that look like a woman who wants to be stopped by some rando so he can tell her she's beautiful? You (and I don't mean you you, but in a general sense) aren't entitled to interrupt her day and demand her time because you suddenly feel the need to -- there's a time and place where that's expected like a club or live music or a bar, but just walking down the street maybe not.

Jan 18, 2019 2:38:50 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 18, 2019 1:39:14 GMT KJ said:

Also, I want to call this out: The message of the ad isn't that EVERY GUY acts this way. The message of the ad is that all of the guys that don't behave this way have a responsibility to stomp out this behavior when they see it. That's why the foil to every negative action is another man.

Are you honestly unable to see how the add suggests that more men do the wrong thing than the right thing? They literally say "Some men are doing something, but it is not enough" If they said "Most" or even "Many" it would have eased the jarring nature of the language.

Same at the BBQ with an endless stream of men saying Boys will be boys.

Most men would let boys wrestle, nearly all men wouldn't let them full blown throw punches.

But are most men doing enough? Even in that first ad you linked to, that you said would be a better example, how many guys would actually call out that douche on the phone? Would most guys say something, or just sit there uncomfortably and say nothing?

The boys wrestling thing -- the first problem is that the one on the bottom clearly is not having fun, which should be the point at which it's broken up. You could make the argument that it's a life lesson and it's up to the losing kid to figure out a way to win or that sometimes you get knocked on your ass and that's just how it is, which I could accept, but by doing nothing you're ALSO teaching the kid on top that it's okay for him to do what he wants when he wants regardless of how the other kid feels about it, and it's fine because the adults aren't gonna do nothing about it.

For the record KING KID,has toxic attitudes to women and life generally, but I don't see it as any form of masculinity.

Being a man is treating women well: defending, protecting and providing for.
I'm certainly not an angel and generally not a good person, but I have never used any position of power or strength to make someone think less of themselves.

Most people that abuse others it's because of insecurity over severely lacking parts of them such as the fact they're dumb, or short or their penis is small etc.

You’re doing backbends to avoid labeling his behavior toxic masculinity. He’s not an outlier. And it’s by all intents and purposes behavior exclusive to men. And, of course, it’s a POV on what a man is.

It’s toxic masculinity.

Jan 19, 2019 2:21:18 GMT KJ said:

You’re doing backbends to avoid labeling his behavior toxic masculinity. He’s not an outlier. And it’s by all intents and purposes behavior exclusive to men. And, of course, it’s a POV on what a man is.

It’s toxic masculinity.

No... My chair has 4 legs, my cat has 4 legs and my cat is not a chair.

Our society needs more masculinity to provide shit stains examples, the answer isn't to speak down to masculinity and put men down, but to lift good men up... Which is something the Gillette ad failed to do. 

I worked in a factory of Albanian Muslims and their attitudes to women disgusted me, but was it the fact that they were men, or Albanian or Muslim?
I also got into a legitimate fight with one when he laughed about slapping a woman across the face on the weekend. Meaning I legitimately picked him up threw him to the ground and threatened him with extreme violence... I used to be a lot more wild.

Terrible analogy.

If his viewpoint is how he believes masculinity should be ...

And it’s a viewpoint shared by a lot of men ...

And we agree it’s toxic ...

That viewpoint is ... (class) ...

The phrase doesn’t mean masculinity is toxic. It means this viewpoint on masculinity is.

Gillette ad was highly inspirational to me.

Small world, iNCY

I don’t consider my masculinity toxic. I consider it what masculinity should be. Gladiators were the definition of masculinity and they would ass fuck the weak no matter the gender just to prove their masculinity. That’s toxic. Im not ass fucking people to prove my masculinity. To be honest, anal is not even in my top 5. So my masculinity is not toxic. I just have my own opinion on what a man is. I don’t go around telling males how to be men.

But anyways, that’s not my point. My point is that not every person in this world wants to be told how to feel. How is me liking to have my own opinion toxic lifestyle? Wouldn’t that be considered opinion to label it toxic? What’s toxic to you may not be toxic to me. I think protestors are toxic. Are they toxic now officially?

Also, I don’t like to be an example so stop using me as an example.

Of course the dislikes are an orchestrated attack on the video, not the general consensus ..despite the comments on both YT/FB being overwhelmingly negative and from people from very varying backgrounds.

Also interesting that the people in this thread are from predominantly white areas/have only white friends and are the most preachy about racism & political correctness.

Jan 19, 2019 3:50:16 GMT System said:

Of course the dislikes are an orchestrated attack on the video, not the general consensus ..despite the comments on both YT/FB being overwhelmingly negative and from people from very varying backgrounds.

Also interesting that the people in this thread are from predominantly white areas/have only white friends and are the most preachy about racism & political correctness.

I grew up in a very white area. I’ve purposely diversified my life more from a cultural standpoint, though my own network of friends hasn’t changed much over the last 20 years.

Jan 19, 2019 2:50:25 GMT KJ said:

Terrible analogy.

If his viewpoint is how he believes masculinity should be ...

And it’s a viewpoint shared by a lot of men ...

And we agree it’s toxic ...

That viewpoint is ... (class) ...

The phrase doesn’t mean masculinity is toxic. It means this viewpoint on masculinity is.

Gillette ad was highly inspirational to me.

The definition of masculinity is "Qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men."
If there are behaviours exhibited by a small minority of men, then I don't accept that they can be referred to as "masculinity". That's why my analogy of the chair is correct.
If some Muslims advocate terrorism as a form of Jihad under Islam, does that make terrorism a part of Islam? 

Jan 19, 2019 4:01:20 GMT KJ said:

Jan 19, 2019 3:50:16 GMT System said:

Of course the dislikes are an orchestrated attack on the video, not the general consensus ..despite the comments on both YT/FB being overwhelmingly negative and from people from very varying backgrounds.

Also interesting that the people in this thread are from predominantly white areas/have only white friends and are the most preachy about racism & political correctness.

I grew up in a very white area. I’ve purposely diversified my life more from a cultural standpoint, though my own network of friends hasn’t changed much over the last 20 years.

You've purposely sort out people of varying color and race? I'm hoping that's not true, and you did so out of merit and character.

Jan 19, 2019 9:39:29 GMT NATH45 said:

Jan 19, 2019 4:01:20 GMT KJ said:

I grew up in a very white area. I’ve purposely diversified my life more from a cultural standpoint, though my own network of friends hasn’t changed much over the last 20 years.

You've purposely sort out people of varying color and race? I'm hoping that's not true, and you did so out of merit and character.

I said cultural. And by that I mean exposing my children to multiple cultures and events beyond just seeing the same white faces every day I saw. I was insulated growing up; I don’t want the same for them.

Jan 19, 2019 3:50:16 GMT System said:

Of course the dislikes are an orchestrated attack on the video, not the general consensus ..despite the comments on both YT/FB being overwhelmingly negative and from people from very varying backgrounds.

It's like Hydra. Every comment they delete 4 more take it's place.

I wasn’t insulated growing up. I was around everything as I live in diverse NY. I’m also well aware that my life in America was easier living in a diverse city instead of a very white part of America that don’t like Muslims or “weird” names. I’m totally understanding, aware and cool with it.

However, I’m totally pro-man, pro-America in the aspect of people need to respect the country they live in. Be proud of who you are no matter what. Be nice to one another. Stop telling people what to do and think.

Funny how some (KJ/MikeC/UT for example) are so against bullies and are complete internet bullies when someone disagrees with them. Especially politics and lifestyles. Mike to a lesser extent. Still, as we learned here, words such as less and most mean shit and are objective. I’m just saying, at least I’m me 100% of the time whether you agree or disagree.