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Post by Kilgore on Aug 12, 2019 20:30:57 GMT
CHRISTIAN IS A JANNETTY. MATT HARDY IS A JANNETTY. Just because they don't suck doesn't mean they cease to be Jannettys. Hell, if The Mega Powers were a real tag team, Macho would be the Jannetty and Macho rules harder than pretty much everybody.
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Post by thereallt on Aug 12, 2019 20:46:25 GMT
Sorry but Matt Hardy is UNDISPUTEDLY a Jannetty. Far more than Christian, who at least won a world title in at least one promotion. Matt Hardy can't even make that claim.
And despite all the claims of Matt's marks, Jeff was easily the better member of the team, and was hands down the one that put asses in the seats.
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Post by kingoftheworld on Aug 12, 2019 20:55:25 GMT
Jeff was the one getting major singles titles and WWE Title matches when he was still teaming with Matt. When he returned he was pushed and eventually became world champ. They took the title off him to feud with Matt and after that feud, Matt completely slipped off the scale. Jeff could easily get in the Hall of Fame as a singles. Matt won’t. Hell, Christian could get in the Hall of Fame as a singles. But Matt won’t.
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Post by RT on Aug 12, 2019 23:33:07 GMT
CHRISTIAN IS A JANNETTY. MATT HARDY IS A JANNETTY. Just because they don't suck doesn't mean they cease to be Jannettys. Hell, if The Mega Powers were a real tag team, Macho would be the Jannetty and Macho rules harder than pretty much everybody. It’s about the degree of their Jannetyism that is my issue. There are only 4 wrestlers more Jannetty than Matt Hardy? No way in hell.
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Post by Baker on Aug 13, 2019 0:03:34 GMT
I'm glad RT was around this afternoon to do the work for me. I agree with everything he has written about the great Matt Hardy. I'll admit Matt is technically the Jannetty of the Hardy Boys, but there's no way he belongs in the Top 5, or on the list at all imo. Matt had a great career in his own right. Like Christian, Matt wouldn't have made my Top 20. Also, Matt > Jeff since 2002.
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Post by 🤯 on Aug 13, 2019 0:10:41 GMT
I'm glad RT was around this afternoon to do the work for me. I agree with everything he has written about the great Matt Hardy. I'll admit Matt is technically the Jannetty of the Hardy Boys, but there's no way he belongs in the Top 5, or on the list at all imo. Matt had a great career in his own right. Like Christian, Matt wouldn't have made my Top 20. Also, Matt > Jeff since 2002. Lump me in with these guys as being a Matt defender. Even though he didn't win a world title (unless we count WWECW?) Matt still was successful enough as his own thing not to make my list. He definitely makes mine before Christian, but to be Top 5 overall!? Insane. Guys like Tom Zenk, Dan Spivey, Rick Steiner, Stevie Ray, John Kronus, Mustafa Saed, Ed Leslie, etc. are all still out there. And disagree with the notion that every team always has a Jannetty. But HHH was definitely the Jannetty of the Two Man Power Trip. And actually, now that I think about it, Scott Hall was the Jannetty of the Outsiders.
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Post by Baker on Aug 13, 2019 0:31:22 GMT
He definitely would have been the Jannetty in his tag team with Johnny Ace due to Ace being a longtime company staple. They actually had a match in the early 2000s against Tenzan & Kojima that got five star/MOTY buzz in some circles. Even crazier, it wasn't even Johnny Ace that was his partner in that match. It was Jungle Jim Steele! Oh wow. You're right. I misremembered it as Johnny Ace. "Jungle" Jim Steele does make it even weirder! Just found it on the Russian version of Youtube. Of course that's where it would turn up. I'll have to give it the proper Match Review treatment.
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Post by Shootist on Aug 13, 2019 2:31:38 GMT
D-Von Dudley- Was on my list initially but fell off when more distinguished gaps in tag team wrestlers came about. While Bully Ray was great in TNA as a solo heel he didn't reach the heights of other captains who went solo.
Joey Mercury- Had I thought about more modern entries he would be a shoe-in, he was a Jannetty twice over as well, good pick.
Christian- What???!!!, not by my criteria. Hugely successful in two companies. He and Edge are near equals.
Charlie Haas- Meh, Shelton Benjamin didn't reach that great of heights either.
Bart Gunn- Now we're talking, had by far less charisma than his partner who seamlessly blended well with the rest of DX. Even his real name Mike Barton reeks of being a Jannetty who went on to do stuff in All Japan. Number 6 on my list.
Matt Hardy- To a lesser extent see Christian, no way he gets a sniff of my list.
There is no Jannetty in the Mega Powers, lol. It's freakin' Hogan and Savage.
I'm surpised people forgot the concept of this most legendary of HoW memes for the most part imo.
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Post by thereallt on Aug 13, 2019 3:20:53 GMT
Better at what? Making people change the channel? Or being a cure for insomnia?
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Post by Baker on Aug 13, 2019 3:37:52 GMT
Better at what? Making people change the channel? Or being a cure for insomnia? Jeff is better than Matt at jumping from high places and spastic gyrations. Matt is better than Jeff at everything else.
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Post by Kilgore on Aug 13, 2019 4:02:12 GMT
I'm glad RT was around this afternoon to do the work for me. I agree with everything he has written about the great Matt Hardy. I'll admit Matt is technically the Jannetty of the Hardy Boys, but there's no way he belongs in the Top 5, or on the list at all imo. Matt had a great career in his own right. Like Christian, Matt wouldn't have made my Top 20. Also, Matt > Jeff since 2002. Lump me in with these guys as being a Matt defender. Even though he didn't win a world title (unless we count WWECW?) Matt still was successful enough as his own thing not to make my list. He definitely makes mine before Christian, but to be Top 5 overall!? Insane. Guys like Tom Zenk, Dan Spivey, Rick Steiner, Stevie Ray, John Kronus, Mustafa Saed, Ed Leslie, etc. are all still out there. And disagree with the notion that every team always has a Jannetty. But HHH was definitely the Jannetty of the Two Man Power Trip. And actually, now that I think about it, Scott Hall was the Jannetty of the Outsiders. Every team has a Jannetty. Just to show you that I'm a man of principle, Brian fucking Pillman is the Jannetty of The Hollywood Blonds.
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Post by kingoftheworld on Aug 13, 2019 4:56:51 GMT
Better at what? Making people change the channel? Or being a cure for insomnia? Jeff is better than Matt at jumping from high places and spastic gyrations. Matt is better than Jeff at everything else. Yeah Matts better at making psycho videos to get the internet on board. That and hitting the buffet first. Like seriously, Jeff wipes the floor with Matt in every way of being a better wrestler.
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Post by RT on Aug 13, 2019 5:26:29 GMT
Lump me in with these guys as being a Matt defender. Even though he didn't win a world title (unless we count WWECW?) Matt still was successful enough as his own thing not to make my list. He definitely makes mine before Christian, but to be Top 5 overall!? Insane. Guys like Tom Zenk, Dan Spivey, Rick Steiner, Stevie Ray, John Kronus, Mustafa Saed, Ed Leslie, etc. are all still out there. And disagree with the notion that every team always has a Jannetty. But HHH was definitely the Jannetty of the Two Man Power Trip. And actually, now that I think about it, Scott Hall was the Jannetty of the Outsiders. Every team has a Jannetty. Just to show you that I'm a man of principle, Brian fucking Pillman is the Jannetty of The Hollywood Blonds. Yes that is correct. But did Brian Pillman show up on anyone’s list? Hopefully not. Just like Matt Hardy shouldn’t have either. Same goes for Christian (although I can’t defend that one anymore because I put him on my list due to time constraints and being unable to think of anyone else).
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Post by Big Pete on Aug 13, 2019 7:44:24 GMT
In the case of the Hollywood Blondes, both members were already established on the roster. They didn't make a name for themselves as a tag team, it was just a part of their careers whereas in the case of the Rockers, the Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian, that was where they really got their start. I didn't consider the fading into obscurity part of the equation. For mine, this whole poll was who was the best no. 2. Jannettys, Jannettys everywhere.
"Why did they come to our concert just to boo us?" The question that's been on Vince's mind the past 15 years. :lol:
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Post by UT on Aug 13, 2019 12:02:18 GMT
Better at what? Making people change the channel? Or being a cure for insomnia? Jeff is better than Matt at jumping from high places and spastic gyrations. Matt is better than Jeff at everything else. Except for making people give a shit , and seriously Matt's singles catalogue is underwhelming - even more so than I expected. Jeff trounches him in pretty much every aspect. We are usually on similar wavelengths concerning wrestling - never have I been more opposed to your point of view. It hurts Baker.
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Post by UT on Aug 13, 2019 12:27:08 GMT
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Post by UT on Aug 13, 2019 12:30:13 GMT
The Steiners were awesome as a team , and to be honest - as a team I think I preferred Rick for the most part. The same can't really be said for the singles careers as Rick IMO struggled to remain relevant and while the angle with the Steiners should have been huge - I just don't think he had the "it" factor to carry it from his end. Solid all around wrestler and talent that absolutely belonged in a tag team and definitely belongs on this list.
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Post by Big Pete on Aug 13, 2019 13:49:13 GMT
Rick nearly contradicts my whole 'must have established himself as a tag guy prior' rule given he was a part of the Varsity Club. What spares him is that the Varsity Club played a role in his transition to the Steiner Bros and that's how Scott rose to prominence.
I've only recently discovered how big a star Rick was in WCW. It doesn't get touched on in the WCW retrospectives, but at one point, he was the biggest babyface in that upper mid-card and wasn't far off challenging Goldberg, DDP, Nash and Flair for their spots. That win at Halloween Havoc 98 looked like it was going to cement him for a big year in 1999, but then he succumbed to an injury and disappeared for several months. By the time he comes back, he's this miserable heel character standing in for his brother.
Then it seemed like he disappeared into the ether until The Steiner Bros. made a comeback in 2007. According to CageMatch he went over to Japan and wrestled there from 2002-05 which makes a lot of sense.
Rick was a better performer than I gave him credit for. I was only familiar with his 1999 work which was borderline unwatchable for me. He was similar to Bossman where he leaned heavily into being unlikeable and just worked an incredibly slow and belaboured pace. I'd spend more time looking at the clock than the television. However, looking at him in the Steiner Bros. he was like the Anvil where he was the loose cannon and made Scotty look tame by comparison. Which is crazy because Scotty is one of the most famous Pro Wrestlers out there. I couldn't believe it, but those TNA promos have taken a life of their own, the maths promo gets dropped in the weirdest of places.
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Post by UT on Aug 13, 2019 16:00:02 GMT
Going back and chronilogically watching a bunch of the WCW PPV's as I have been , I haven't really hit Rick's single run yet. I did see a few matches in the GAB research and was confused as shit - kind of made me realize that WCW even at it's peak was so hard to follow that I needed to watch as much as I can in order. I just don't know that I liked him outside of the tag and the matches I did watch were making me skip forward to the next match. His match with Sting is one I watched and god that was terrible with the dogs in the back. Ugh.
Which reminds me , I know some don't love the Worst lists but we are doing a Worst WCW PPV list just so I can bitch about Halloween Havoc 95 , and pretty much everything else that happened in that year and early 96. I know the WCW gets a lot of shit for it's dying days but that period for like a year before the nWo came was some of the worst wrestling you can find.
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Post by Big Pete on Aug 13, 2019 16:14:23 GMT
It'll be more popular than a Top 10 Rick Steiner matches list.
Rick was a bigger star than I recall and like Bossman a better worker than I gave him credit for when I started watching, but he wasn't Bret Hart in the ring either. I think it was Halloween Havoc '99, Rick Steiner is in the ring against Chris Benoit who has been pulling great matches out of guys like Brian Adams and Vincent and they proceed to have one of the worst matches of the year.
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Post by The Kid on Aug 13, 2019 18:19:41 GMT
As a young kid, Rick had the cooler look. The head gear, the beard, the barking. But what Scott went on to do as a singles star is actually unbelievable. He changed his whole look and became a cult legend. You couldn’t even boo this man if he cursed out your family member because that’s who Scott Steiner was. I loved it.
Ultimately it makes Rick the older, uncooler brother. Rick Steiner was my #1.
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Post by thereallt on Aug 13, 2019 20:50:39 GMT
Rick is a great shout out for this countdown. The Steiners were awesome and Rick was a huge part of that, but Scott was clearly the one heading for big things...
Years of Big Poppa Pump have made people forget. Scott used to be an absolute BEAST in the ring.
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Post by Baker on Aug 13, 2019 22:29:56 GMT
We are usually on similar wavelengths concerning wrestling - never have I been more opposed to your point of view. It hurts Baker . We usually are on similar wavelengths concerning wrestling- never have you been more wrong. It hurts UT. Seriously though. Post-Hardys Matt had the awesome Version 1 run, the red hot Edge feud where he was in contention for most popular babyface in wrestling, and the Broken Brilliance in TNA. I also thought he was the best wrestler in WWE during his 2007 Smackdown run. He was having good tv matches against a wide variety of opponents every week. Matt remained over for years in spite of bad booking. To this day I'll never understand why they didn't go all the way with the Version 1 gimmick, or jobbed him out during the Edge feud. Matt was creative. Matt was consistently good in the ring. Matt cared. Jeff....did not. He got all the breaks Matt didn't in the early 2000s and capitalized on it by flaming out. He was always destined to be the Michaels of the team....until he got released in 2003. Jeff never evolved. I'll give him that red hot babyface run in late 2007-early 2008 where he did win me back after years of indifference/dislike. That was cool. But guess what? He blew that too! When he failed a Wellness Policy going into what was intended to be a big MITB win at Wrestlemania. So frustrating! But I was still happy when won the Title later that year. He had won me back. Then he left again. Had THAT Sting match in TNA on ppv. I'll give him points for all the Brother Nero stuff even though he was really just riding Matt's coattails. Basically, I've got nothing against Jeff, but Matt is far more of a Baker Guy. Spoiler Alert: Matt is approximately 35 spots ahead of Jeff on my Top 200. ------------------------ I'm trying to think of long term teams without a clear Jannetty. This is all I've got.... Young Bucks? Though I do remember somebody (KashDinero, I think) saying one was known to be the brains of the team SAT? Harris Brothers? LOL- Which one sucked less? Demolition? I'd lean Ax as the Jannetty but I imagine older fans would lean Smash due to Ax's Masked Superstar work
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Post by Baker on Aug 13, 2019 23:27:05 GMT
I threw Rick Steiner in at #10. He clearly ended up as the Jannetty of the Steiner Brothers. No doubt about it. But it wasn't always that way...
As Pete touched on, Rick was already an established star before Scotty showed up. First with the Varsity Club and then as a wildly popular babyface. How popular was Rick Steiner? Well, booker Dusty Rhodes wanted to have Rick squash Flair for the NWA Championship at Starrcade '88. Or you can watch Rick's actual Starrcade '88 match against Mike Rotunda and check out that pop when he wins the TV Title.
Rick being the veteran of the team, coupled with being the personality of the team, coupled with the fact that I didn't watch WCW for like 2 years during the Steiners early 90s peak, caused me to believe Rick was the top Steiner Brother for....far too long.
That explains his relatively low ranking on my list.
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Post by RT on Aug 13, 2019 23:38:22 GMT
I threw Rick Steiner in at #10. He clearly ended up as the Jannetty of the Steiner Brothers. No doubt about it. But it wasn't always that way... As Pete touched on, Rick was already an established star before Scotty showed up. First with the Varsity Club and then as a wildly popular babyface. How popular was Rick Steiner? Well, booker Dusty Rhodes wanted to have Rick squash Flair for the NWA Championship at Starrcade '88. Or you can watch Rick's actual Starrcade '88 match against Mike Rotunda and check out that pop when he wins the TV Title. Rick being the veteran of the team, coupled with being the personality of the team, coupled with the fact that I didn't watch WCW for like 2 years during the Steiners early 90s peak, caused me to believe Rick was the top Steiner Brother for....far too long. That explains his relatively low ranking on my list. I’m too young to remember any of this so Rick placed high on my list. I’m also thinking my vote for Ron Simmons is going to be too high for the same reasons too. He was well established before The Acolytes/APA much like Rick was before the Steiner Bros.
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Post by The Kid on Aug 13, 2019 23:47:59 GMT
I threw Rick Steiner in at #10. He clearly ended up as the Jannetty of the Steiner Brothers. No doubt about it. But it wasn't always that way... As Pete touched on, Rick was already an established star before Scotty showed up. First with the Varsity Club and then as a wildly popular babyface. How popular was Rick Steiner? Well, booker Dusty Rhodes wanted to have Rick squash Flair for the NWA Championship at Starrcade '88. Or you can watch Rick's actual Starrcade '88 match against Mike Rotunda and check out that pop when he wins the TV Title. Rick being the veteran of the team, coupled with being the personality of the team, coupled with the fact that I didn't watch WCW for like 2 years during the Steiners early 90s peak, caused me to believe Rick was the top Steiner Brother for....far too long. That explains his relatively low ranking on my list. I’m too young to remember any of this so Rick placed high on my list. I’m also thinking my vote for Ron Simmons is going to be too high for the same reasons too. He was well established before The Acolytes/APA much like Rick was before the Steiner Bros. Wow. I honestly forgot all about Ron Simmons.
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Post by Shootist on Aug 14, 2019 2:24:10 GMT
Ron though wasn't the Jannetty of Doom though. I consider Doom pretty even but age was against Butch Reed. Acolytes I also consider pretty even but a slight edge to JBL for his later exploits.
Rick I didn't really consider, Rick and Scott teamed for so long and were every definition of the term team. What Scott had in flashy offense Rick had in the charisma department. I can see though why he made the list with their late 90's careers going in opposite directions.
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Post by thereallt on Aug 14, 2019 2:50:18 GMT
No one gave two shits about Version 1.
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Post by kingoftheworld on Aug 14, 2019 4:03:59 GMT
Are we actually trying to compare Matt Hardys Cruiserweight V1 run and the fact he was only brought back to put Edge over to Jeffs first run where he took the IC title from HHH, had the hardcore feud that introduced RVD to the wwe or with his Ladder match with Taker (that run alone kills Matt) or how about when he returned took the IC title and feuded with Nitro and Umaga, ultimately going into winning the WWE title. And guess what when he lost the title he went into a momentum killing brother vs brother feud. But that’s ok because Matt slipped into obscurity where he belongs whilst Jeff went into feud with Punk in his farewell main event match. And when they came back, oh look after being years of irrelevant other than shouting delete at a fucking drone....there’s Matt hardy at his brothers side at Wrestlemania. And when the dust is settled after that, who’s having The Summerslam match with Nakamura, the Hell in a Cell with Orton? Jeff FUCKING HARDY. That’s who.
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Post by RT on Aug 14, 2019 4:10:15 GMT
Ron though wasn't the Jannetty of Doom though. I consider Doom pretty even but age was against Butch Reed. Acolytes I also consider pretty even but a slight edge to JBL for his later exploits. Rick I didn't really consider, Rick and Scott teamed for so long and were every definition of the term team. What Scott had in flashy offense Rick had in the charisma department. I can see though why he made the list with their late 90's careers going in opposite directions. I was talking about APA...that’s why my post pointed out that he was established before that tag team. I definitely voted Simmons too high in himdsight. No one gave two shits about Version 1. 1) yes people did. 2) hey look it’s a video of my #1
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