God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 15:44:47 GMT
The same is true of McDonald's in the food industry. Dosen't make it quality. And ironmaiden's point comparing to Twilight is 100% legit.
Plain and simple, Scream is CRAP. It's like what would happen if you took the Backstreet Boys and N'Sync and somehow morphed them into a slasher film. Yes it was highly influential, but it was highly influential in the WORST kind of way. After it's success directors all tried making the same watered down Dawson's Creek style crap and ruined horror for the better part of the decade. With the possible exception of The Blair Witch Project no other horror movie had quite the same negative impact on it's own genre.
Scream finishing ahead of pretty much ANY film on this list so far (with the possible exception of Pretty Woman) is just shameful.
And yes Ghostface is still the lamest horror movie villain ever. Every time I see him on screen I wonder if the protagonists are going to die by stabbing or die of laughter.
No instead in Scream you get goofy scenes where they talk about the rules of their own movie. Scenes that completely kill what little tension this movie had.
As far as age group goes, I was 20 when I first saw it. What age range do you have to be?, 8-11? Because even my young teen self would have found this movie lame. As far as Sydney goes, I will give some credit here, she was about the only character I didn't want to reach through the screen and throttle. But comparing her to legends like Laurie Stroud and Nancy Thompson? NO.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 16:10:58 GMT
See same old bullshit , it's not McDonalds at all. As I said in a response to IM - Scream wasn't a juggernaut coming into its release - it relied on word of mouth to gain its popularity. People ain't going to fucking McDonalds to eat cheeseburgers because people recommend them. What world are you living on where that is a thing? In the same vein as most popular horror movies by the way - movies like Halloween and Nightmare followed similar trajectories in popularity. Does that make the McDonalds? Yeah...
And your Ghostface point is lame and redundant - you have yet to expand on it at all. Care to refute any points or just talk about how YOU laugh at him? Your talking points are about as laughable as anything Ghostface does.
They talk about rules of every horror movie and why it's important you follow them , in which they do? It doesn't kill any tension , it heightens it because characters take them with a grain of salt and that inevitably seals their fate - because when you don't believe in the rules YOUR OWN MOVIE sets forth you die. It's a fitting allegory to the horror genre in general. When you fail to adhere to the rules you created in your own franchise - your franchise suffers. Bar none. Allegories for the win.
As for Sydney , she carried 4 movies and is the throughline throughout - you can't say that about Laurie or even Nancy as great as they are.
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 16:40:06 GMT
I don't NEED any other talking points. And the sad part is Neve Campbell is doing hr absolute best to sell it. But the second I see that goofy ass costume on screen I just can't take it seriously. I immediately think of this.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 16:53:18 GMT
You aren't saying anything. At all. You are making no points.
Let me ask you a simple question? What would you be more afraid of -
1) Me telling you there is a serial killer running loose in your neighborhood
2) Me telling you there is a ghost running loose in your neighborhood
It's going to be 1. It's always going to be one , because that shit is real and can actually happen and has happened. FFS.
And you champion Freddy yet he set the template for villains being fucking cheesy and and comical. By the time Dream Warriors rolled around he was a amateur comedian.
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 17:07:56 GMT
Freddy BECAME cheesy. But the first Nightmare utterly outclasses the entire Scream franchise. Seeing Wes Craven go from making masterpieces like that to making lame watered down teen flicks that belong on the CW was heartbreaking. It was like HHH watching Ric Flair compete for the Intercontinental title.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 17:11:58 GMT
You aren't saying anything. At all. You are making no points. Let me ask you a simple question? What would you be more afraid of - 1) Me telling you there is a serial killer running loose in your neighborhood 2) Me telling you there is a ghost running loose in your neighborhood It's going to be 1. It's always going to be one , because that shit is real and can actually happen and has happened. FFS. And you champion Freddy yet he set the template for villains being fucking cheesy and and comical. By the time Dream Warriors rolled around he was a amateur comedian. Uhhh... I'd be way more terrified of a ghost. That would flip my whole understanding of our physical universe on its head.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 17:13:29 GMT
You mean when he was getting beat up by a teen girl? Something you weirdly held against Ghostface.
And Freddy was always quippy , it’s what made him popular. Despite it being the worst movie ever you could easily make the argument Freddy was the most scary in part two because they stripped away what made him popular in the OG.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 17:15:14 GMT
You aren't saying anything. At all. You are making no points. Let me ask you a simple question? What would you be more afraid of - 1) Me telling you there is a serial killer running loose in your neighborhood 2) Me telling you there is a ghost running loose in your neighborhood It's going to be 1. It's always going to be one , because that shit is real and can actually happen and has happened. FFS. And you champion Freddy yet he set the template for villains being fucking cheesy and and comical. By the time Dream Warriors rolled around he was a amateur comedian. Uhhh... I'd be way more terrified of a ghost. That would flip my whole understanding of our physical universe on its head. You wouldn’t believe me because they aren’t real. Serial killers have proven to exist and would terrifying to know it could be your neighbor or school teacher.
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 17:24:27 GMT
You aren't saying anything. At all. You are making no points. Let me ask you a simple question? What would you be more afraid of - 1) Me telling you there is a serial killer running loose in your neighborhood 2) Me telling you there is a ghost running loose in your neighborhood It's going to be 1. It's always going to be one , because that shit is real and can actually happen and has happened. FFS. And you champion Freddy yet he set the template for villains being fucking cheesy and and comical. By the time Dream Warriors rolled around he was a amateur comedian. If there WAS ACTUAL EVIDENCE of a ghost running loose in my neighborhood (as in my house was actually being haunted) #2 by far. I can do something about the serial killer. (Keep my home locked, stay alert for suspicious behavior, carry a gun etc..) I can't do shit about a ghost haunting me except leave my house. Plus your point about knowing ghosts don't exist is complete nonsense. I know serial killers don't wear goofy ass costumes and trip over their own feet either.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 17:27:01 GMT
Uhhh... I'd be way more terrified of a ghost. That would flip my whole understanding of our physical universe on its head. You wouldn’t believe me because they aren’t real. Serial killers have proven to exist and would terrifying to know it could be your neighbor or school teacher. I'm not sure I'd believe you about a serial killer either though... to thereallt's point, I'm trying to be fair and assuming there's irrefutable proof of both in either scenario. Also, not to intentionally quote Predator, but... if it bleeds, we can kill it. I'd have a field day exacting torturous revenge on a serial killer if our paths crossed. A ghost though? Even if it was just Casper? FUUUUUCK THAT.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 17:28:35 GMT
Freddy bleeds. Jason bleeds. Myers bleeds. Yet none of them have yet to be killed because they live in a completely fantastical world.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 17:29:25 GMT
Serial killers don't wear goofy ass costumes and trip over their own feet either. I still haven't seen Scream, so question: does this actually happen!? If so, seems hard to go into Scream inclined to take it anymore seriously than Scary Movie. :ugh:
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 17:30:56 GMT
Freddy bleeds. Jason bleeds. Myers bleeds. Yet none of them have yet to be killed because they live in a completely fantastical world. OK, then I'd rather take my chances with all of them then instead of some ghost. What's your point? Honestly, I'd probably rather tangle with them than something sophisticated like a Predator or evolved to kill like an Alien xenomorph or Tremor worm.
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 17:34:59 GMT
Serial killers don't wear goofy ass costumes and trip over their own feet either. I still haven't seen Scream, so question: does this actually happen!? If so, seems hard to go into Scream inclined to take it anymore seriously than Scary Movie. A SLIGHT exaggeration but Ghostface is definitely clumsy as hell. My roommate was a huge Scream superfan just like UT and prattling on and on about amazing it was and how I needed to see it (Even doing a term paper on the subject!!!) I finally gave in and saw it. About the only more disappointing film experience I ever had was watching Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of Crystal Skull.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 17:39:53 GMT
I still haven't seen Scream, so question: does this actually happen!? If so, seems hard to go into Scream inclined to take it anymore seriously than Scary Movie. A SLIGHT exaggeration but Ghostface is definitely clumsy as hell. UT, representing the other side of the Scream argument, I'd like your validation on Ghostface's clumsiness (or coordination, if you disagree that he's clumsy).
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 18:06:30 GMT
A SLIGHT exaggeration but Ghostface is definitely clumsy as hell. UT, representing the other side of the Scream argument, I'd like your validation on Ghostface's clumsiness (or coordination, if you disagree that he's clumsy). Clumsy in the sense that he’s human and that’s the kind of things that would absolutely happen chasing a person around a house and getting things thrown at you and getting kicked in the nuts. No different that again , Freddy falling into all Nancy’s traps ala Harry and Marv getting fucking up by Kevin in Home Alone. And then falling down the stairs at the end. . Mrs. Voorhees getting the shit flat kicked out of her in her only one vs one encounter. Or in Jason’s debut he falls all over the place in part two as a HUMAN. Not a methodical zombie. Michael gets beat up by a coat hanger at one point , flails around when shot. And falls out a window. So is he clumsy? Sure but it makes sense when the killer(s) are revealed and he’s obviously effective and makes the kills worth it. He’s just not walking up and slicing peoples throats like butter , which is fun but not exactly fear inducing because their is no chase or no connection. LT acts like these things are exclusive to Scream when in fact it’s Craven taking plays out of his own playbook from Last House to Nightmare. Yet he lets them slide in all movies except Scream or just chooses to ignore them because he wants to. It’s horror movie stuff highlighted by Scream in the recognition that despite the fact these movies are beloved they can be inane at times. Scream just plays into that whole also paying homepage - even to the extent they let Laurie kill one of the killers in Scream through symbolism. It’s why when people say Scream is poorly written it drives me nuts, they were actually quite brilliant not only in the way the used the tropes to their advantage but by the Easter eggs and homages they pay to the predecessors of the slasher genre. Watch Scream since I don’t have an official rec for you for this countdown.
|
|
Global Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Female
8,685 POSTS & 6,862 LIKES
|
Post by iron maiden on Apr 29, 2020 18:27:41 GMT
And I reiterate the popular source material it came from , akin to the MCU and the legion of diehards that are going to see the movies because of said source material and their love of it. It's really not the same type of thing like a Scream that really came out of nowhere and even struggled at first until word of mouth came around and people went to see it. People weren't oblivious to Twilight before the first movie dropped. It didn't rely on word of mouth and innovation to create popularity - it already had hordes of fans waiting in line the night it dropped because Stephanie Myers created an incredibly popular series of books. Same with Harry Potter before that with die hard Potterheads. Or LOTR which came with a legion of decade long fans. If anything Twilight owes more to Harry Potter than Hunger Games owes to Twilight. I was using it more as an argument about strong female leads being featured. Something Marvel only just tried with Captain Marvel when they had Black Widow all along. Something YA series like Twilight, Hunger Games, Insurrection, ect. were doing for years by then. Although, I'll say Sidney and Courtney Cox's characters could fall under that.
Also, I didn't disagree with your arguments for Scream. I was just pointing out the inaccuracy in your statement that Twilight did not change movies or it's genre like Scream did.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 18:43:26 GMT
And I reiterate the popular source material it came from , akin to the MCU and the legion of diehards that are going to see the movies because of said source material and their love of it. It's really not the same type of thing like a Scream that really came out of nowhere and even struggled at first until word of mouth came around and people went to see it. People weren't oblivious to Twilight before the first movie dropped. It didn't rely on word of mouth and innovation to create popularity - it already had hordes of fans waiting in line the night it dropped because Stephanie Myers created an incredibly popular series of books. Same with Harry Potter before that with die hard Potterheads. Or LOTR which came with a legion of decade long fans. If anything Twilight owes more to Harry Potter than Hunger Games owes to Twilight. I was using it more as an argument about strong female leads being featured. Something Marvel only just tried with Captain Marvel when they had Black Widow all along.  Something YA series like Twilight, Hunger Games, Insurrection, ect. were doing for years by then. Although, I'll say Sidney and Courtney Cox's characters could fall under that.
Also, I didn't disagree with your arguments for Scream. I was just pointing out the inaccuracy in your statement that Twilight did not change movies or it's genre like Scream did.Â
I think most horror movies fall under that , they generally have strong female leads and coined the term final girl. It takes a female to bring down the monster. I still don’t think Twilight changes movies per say. I think it was an incredibly successful movie , then franchise and it hit a huge audience. I guess it did create a pocket of time where sexy vampires were a thing but is that as much of a credit to the movies or the books? Chicken or the egg.
|
|
Senior Member
3,714 POSTS & 4,271 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Apr 29, 2020 18:46:04 GMT
Well, I'm in the middle on this one. It's not the horror masterpiece UT makes it out to be nor is it utter shite like thereallt argues. Having seen New Nightmare first it's meta approach grabbed me more than Scream but those first 15 minutes were quite outstanding and Sydney is a top 10 final girl. She would be in the lower half and definitely behind Laurie Strode and Nancy Thompson. It would have made a top 30 if we went that deep.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 18:46:47 GMT
Wait... did I miss something here? We're arguing that Twilight was influential to the movie industry!? WHAT?! HOW!?!? No way.
|
|
Legend
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,269 POSTS & 19,953 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Apr 29, 2020 18:52:06 GMT
Well, I'm in the middle on this one. It's not the horror masterpiece UT makes it out to be nor is it utter shite like thereallt argues. Having seen New Nightmare first it's meta approach grabbed me more than Scream but those first 15 minutes were quite outstanding and Sydney is a top 10 final girl. She would be in the lower half and definitely behind Laurie Strode and Nancy Thompson. It would have made a top 30 if we went that deep. I honestly don’t care that LT hates it , nor that it doesn’t scare him but he’s blatantly making stuff up and misremembering horror movies that set up the tropes.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 19:07:26 GMT
I didn't vote for Scream, but I liked it.
|
|
Global Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Female
8,685 POSTS & 6,862 LIKES
|
Post by iron maiden on Apr 29, 2020 19:17:53 GMT
Wait... did I miss something here? We're arguing that Twilight was influential to the movie industry!? WHAT?! HOW!?!? No way. That's not my argument at all. I wouldn't say the entire movie industry anymore than I would Scream. Within their own movie genres and pop culture though, absolutely.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 19:21:04 GMT
Wait... did I miss something here? We're arguing that Twilight was influential to the movie industry!? WHAT?! HOW!?!? No way. That's not my argument at all. I wouldn't say the entire movie industry anymore than I would Scream. Within their own movie genres and pop culture though, absolutely.
What revolutionary thing did Twilight do that Harry Potter didn't do before it? Just the romance/love triangle aspect?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 19:30:03 GMT
That's not my argument at all. I wouldn't say the entire movie industry anymore than I would Scream. Within their own movie genres and pop culture though, absolutely.
What revolutionary thing did Twilight do that Harry Potter didn't do before it? Just the romance/love triangle aspect? Made vampires gayer than they already were. Isn't Twilight the Dawson's Creek of vampires and werewolf movies or something like that. Don't they sparkle or do something else dumb?
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Apr 29, 2020 19:33:58 GMT
What revolutionary thing did Twilight do that Harry Potter didn't do before it? Just the romance/love triangle aspect? Made vampires gayer than they already were. Isn't Twilight the Dawson's Creek of vampires and werewolf movies or something like that. Don't they sparkle or do something else dumb? Bold made me snort laugh. I guess without Twilight, What We Do in the Shadows wouldn't seem quite as funny. It would probably still be funny. But not as.
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 19:49:59 GMT
What revolutionary thing did Twilight do that Harry Potter didn't do before it? Just the romance/love triangle aspect? Made vampires gayer than they already were. Isn't Twilight the Dawson's Creek of vampires and werewolf movies or something like that. Don't they sparkle or do something else dumb? Yup. Just like Scream is the Dawson's Creek of slasher films
|
|
Legend
19,316 POSTS & 19,613 LIKES
|
Post by Ness on Apr 29, 2020 19:58:35 GMT
Few things.
Don't even act like you don't know they sparkle. Like CM Punk acting like he didn't know it was 9.99. Get real.
Nothing wrong with Dawson's Creek. I'm opening up Youtube right now for that theme.
Scream rules, fuck the haters ya'll just made you answered Jason when it was his Mom. Top 10 greatest opening scenes of all time.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 19:59:35 GMT
Made vampires gayer than they already were. Isn't Twilight the Dawson's Creek of vampires and werewolf movies or something like that. Don't they sparkle or do something else dumb? Yup. Just like Scream is the Dawson's Creek of slasher films Since the guy that created Scream, also created Dawson's Creek...duh. Ness, Never seen the movie...
|
|
God
5,228 POSTS & 4,220 LIKES
|
Post by thereallt on Apr 29, 2020 20:10:13 GMT
Yup. Just like Scream is the Dawson's Creek of slasher films Since the guy that created Scream, also created Dawson's Creek...duh. Ness , Never seen the movie... Wes Craven made Dawson's Creek?? in all seriousness I am not a Kevin Williamson fan at all. I Know What You Did LasT Summer was decent, but that's about it.
|
|