Parents of PW (including Lionheart), children of PW...

I figure I might as well go ahead get this thread up and running. I beseech the council's counsel on parenting.

Any pro tips, hacks, secrets, unavoidable realities I need to know about and brace for? Anything I can do to better prepare? Any grim realities that I simply can't be ready for, no matter what? I'm here to sponge up every drop of wisdom possible at your Fountain of Knowledge.

Figure this can be a good repository too for recollections of or storytimes about your kids, or our parents, etc. (iron maiden opening the can of worms of dad-isms in the other thread has me thinking we can continue to log catchphrases here that I can steal to shoehorn into everyday conversation).

So, moms/dads/aunts/uncles/kids... Let me have it; gimme your best/worst dadvice!

I've been a foster dad for about two months, so I will be checking this out as well.

I don't know much about being a 'dad', but there's a bunch of excellent dads on here to be sure.

A couple of great things that worked for me on my daughter was 'the purple dot'. This is when you know the child is being untruthful, but they won't cop to it. You tell them you can see the purple dot on their forehead only adults can see when they are lying.  It got to the point when I would ask her something she would cover her forehead when she was lying. 

Another thing was Monster Spray. This is for kids who are scared of the dark or anxious. It's a can of Lysol or room deodorizer. They can't read the label, but you can cover it with something fun if you wish.  She was not allowed to touch it only adults could so it was placed in a high place she couldn't reach.  I sprayed it under her bed and in her closet before bed. Keep in mind these two things only work when they are little.  I think Caycee outgrew them at about 4 for the Monster Spray and a little older for the Purple Dot until she realized I worked her.

When she was a teenager I told her we had hidden cameras in the house.  I had a neighbor who was home during the day and narc'd on her so sher believed me because how else could I know these things? It worked until she was out of highschool and kept her fairly honest. I'm not sure why she's paranoid and has super high anxiety now?

Of course that might be the pot.  This was a huge point of contention between us for a long while, but she's 21 now so it's her choice.  She doesn't drink, is fairly responsible so you win some, you lose some.  At least it starts and ends there. 

I always told my daughter she will get in more trouble for lying than telling the truth and taking her lumps.  I also told her so long as she was in the right she would never get in trouble for she standing up for herself or someone else, but just be prepared to write a cheque her ass can't cash from time to time.  Also when they get older my rule was she could go to parties and stay until whenever, but I had to drop her off and pick her up.  This way if she or another one of the kids' needed help I would know where they were.  I was often called at 3am and driving a group of teens home, but better sober me than a drunk/high one of them or a stranger.  My nieces still call me for a ride home from the bar every now and again.  They know I will always come for them. 

Just remember no matter what you do or don't do someone is going to say you messed them up in some regard.  No parent is perfect so all you can do is your best and remember to be kind to yourselves.  Being a parent is the toughest job there is.  It can also be the most rewarding.   

May 28, 2020 20:10:54 GMT iron maiden said:

I don't know much about being a 'dad', but there's a bunch of excellent dads on here to be sure.

A couple of great things that worked for me on my daughter was 'the purple dot'. This is when you know the child is being untruthful, but they won't cop to it. You tell them you can see the purple dot on their forehead only adults can see when they are lying.  It got to the point when I would ask her something she would cover her forehead when she was lying. 

Another thing was Monster Spray. This is for kids who are scared of the dark or anxious. It's a can of Lysol or room deodorizer. They can't read the label, but you can cover it with something fun if you wish.  She was not allowed to touch it only adults could so it was placed in a high place she couldn't reach.  I sprayed it under her bed and in her closet before bed. Keep in mind these two things only work when they are little.  I think Caycee outgrew them at about 4 for the Monster Spray and a little older for the Purple Dot until she realized I worked her.

When she was a teenager I told her we had hidden cameras in the house.  I had a neighbor who was home during the day and narc'd on her so sher believed me because how else could I know these things? It worked until she was out of highschool and kept her fairly honest. I'm not sure why she's paranoid and has super high anxiety now?

Of course that might be the pot.  This was a huge point of contention between us for a long while, but she's 21 now so it's her choice.  She doesn't drink, is fairly responsible so you win some, you lose some.  At least it starts and ends there. 

I always told my daughter she will get in more trouble for lying than telling the truth and taking her lumps.  I also told her so long as she was in the right she would never get in trouble for she standing up for herself or someone else, but just be prepared to write a cheque her ass can't cash from time to time.  Also when they get older my rule was she could go to parties and stay until whenever, but I had to drop her off and pick her up.  This way if she or another one of the kids' needed help I would know where they were.  I was often called at 3am and driving a group of teens home, but better sober me than a drunk/high one of them or a stranger.  My nieces still call me for a ride home from the bar every now and again.  They know I will always come for them. 

Just remember no matter what you do or don't do someone is going to say you messed them up in some regard.  No parent is perfect so all you can do is your best and remember to be kind to yourselves.  Being a parent is the toughest job there is.  It can also be the most rewarding.   

@ness, Big Pete, Baker-man... I know you gents have been putting in the work so far this year, but IM just comes outta da blue and drops this serious contender for Post of the Year.

Thanks for the dadvice, iron maiden. I figure it's dadvice becuase it's for me. It doesn't necessarily have to come from dads. And it doesn't necessarily have to be for me per se either. Any advice yinz wanna pass along to Wife, I'll make sure she sees it. Looking forward already to sharing IM's post above with her.

May 28, 2020 20:30:24 GMT 🤯 said:

May 28, 2020 20:10:54 GMT iron maiden said:

I don't know much about being a 'dad', but there's a bunch of excellent dads on here to be sure.

A couple of great things that worked for me on my daughter was 'the purple dot'. This is when you know the child is being untruthful, but they won't cop to it. You tell them you can see the purple dot on their forehead only adults can see when they are lying.  It got to the point when I would ask her something she would cover her forehead when she was lying. 

Another thing was Monster Spray. This is for kids who are scared of the dark or anxious. It's a can of Lysol or room deodorizer. They can't read the label, but you can cover it with something fun if you wish.  She was not allowed to touch it only adults could so it was placed in a high place she couldn't reach.  I sprayed it under her bed and in her closet before bed. Keep in mind these two things only work when they are little.  I think Caycee outgrew them at about 4 for the Monster Spray and a little older for the Purple Dot until she realized I worked her.

When she was a teenager I told her we had hidden cameras in the house.  I had a neighbor who was home during the day and narc'd on her so sher believed me because how else could I know these things? It worked until she was out of highschool and kept her fairly honest. I'm not sure why she's paranoid and has super high anxiety now?

Of course that might be the pot.  This was a huge point of contention between us for a long while, but she's 21 now so it's her choice.  She doesn't drink, is fairly responsible so you win some, you lose some.  At least it starts and ends there. 

I always told my daughter she will get in more trouble for lying than telling the truth and taking her lumps.  I also told her so long as she was in the right she would never get in trouble for she standing up for herself or someone else, but just be prepared to write a cheque her ass can't cash from time to time.  Also when they get older my rule was she could go to parties and stay until whenever, but I had to drop her off and pick her up.  This way if she or another one of the kids' needed help I would know where they were.  I was often called at 3am and driving a group of teens home, but better sober me than a drunk/high one of them or a stranger.  My nieces still call me for a ride home from the bar every now and again.  They know I will always come for them. 

Just remember no matter what you do or don't do someone is going to say you messed them up in some regard.  No parent is perfect so all you can do is your best and remember to be kind to yourselves.  Being a parent is the toughest job there is.  It can also be the most rewarding.   

@ness , Big Pete , Baker -man... I know you gents have been putting in the work so far this year, but IM just comes outta da blue and drops this serious contender for Post of the Year.

Thanks for the dadvice, iron maiden . I figure it's dadvice becuase it's for me. It doesn't necessarily have to come from dads. And it doesn't necessarily have to be for me per se either. Any advice yinz wanna pass along to Wife , I'll make sure she sees it. Looking forward already to sharing IM's post above with her.

I'm insulted that you let a MOM get credit in the DAD thread. Wife should be making her own topic!

Also I'm equally mad you're buying into the lie your parents probably used on you as well: "just tell the truth". Obvious parent trap (not the movie) that you should not pull on Pi Jr. I think I'll just pm the lad directly and let him know how the world really works.

When my son was born, my wife didn't change a diaper for 3 weeks, until I went back to work. There's only so much you can do as a newborn dad - all they want is to be with their mother, feed from her boobies, and be close to her because for the first 4ish months, they still think they belong back inside their mother. So I did what I could to make my wife's life as easy as possible. Did all the diaper changes. Made all the food. Did all the laundry, all the chores. Of course I had wonderful skin-to-skin contact as much as possible.

My son is almost 2.5 now. He's an amazing chatterbox with a memory that blows me away. A puzzle-wizard, and wonderful little guy. I'm truly lucky to have him in my life.

I hope you're looking forward to this life altering experience Picycle!

I do not consider myself to be an "expert" on anything, let alone being a parent, but there are a few things that I have learned by growing up and by being a parent and there are a few simple truths, and I will echo some of iron maiden, advice.

When I think about what I would like for my daughters as they grow up, I would like them to be both happy and fulfilled with their lives and I see that those two things are really interwoven and both must be addressed for the other to be possible.
I learnt through my own life that is possible to produce the outcomes you are seeking with methods that cause harm.
You want a well-behaved kid with good grades? You can totally achieve that through a multitude of ways, many of which are detrimental to the child in the long term.
Likewise, it is possible to focus on your child's happiness as the "be all and end all" but without focusing on a child's ability to behave or achieve it is unlikely that they will ever be fulfilled in life and this will eventually affect that happiness.

So, the few things that I believe strongly:
Trust is the most critical part of being a parent, your child must trust you implicitly and believe with their whole heart that you want nothing but the best for them. From this I never lie tr my kids, is Santa real, how are babies born, what is dying, I never shy away from the difficult stuff and always try to answer in a way that they will understand, I do think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to "Disnefy" everything...
Does it matter if the child listens to you when you tell them to turn off the iPad, probably not in itself, but if your child is straying too close to a busy road and you yell out "Stop" you need your child to listen. I try to put a lot of effort into not being unreasonable in my requests of my kids, but I also expect them to listen, when they're told the first time, not because I am the Dad and I get any pleasure out of bossing them around, but there are times when it is critical that they listen immediately.
It is also important that a child can achieve and meet goals, whether they are yours, schools, a future empoyer or society generally, people with a happy go-lucky attitude that cannot succeed in life will not have success in quantities enough to provide fulfillment, which will impact happieness... So we have to be able to do what we don't want to do, if you foster that in children they will have a lot less bad habits to break later.
Likewise, as IM touched on the punishment should fit the crime, and it should never be in your child's interest to lie or try to hide what they did. When I was a kid the punishment was severe whether I 'fessed up or tried to hide it, so lots of parents simply good at creating proficient liars.

But my biggest and most important focus is not creating an environment of shame, this is what I was referring to when I spoke about all the right results the wrong way.
Nobody should ever say to a child anything like: "I am disappointed in you" or "You are a badly behaved child"
It is totally acceptable instead to say "Your behaviour today was very poor" or "I am disappointed your chose to behave that way"


I ALWAYS try to focus my attention on the action, not the person, with everyone, especially my kids.
When you tell someone that you are disappointed in them or label them as bad, you create a negative self image that ALWAYS comes with shame.
If anyone continues to do this continually they will end up with a child that has poor self esteem or rebellious because they see themself as a failure of those around them.
When you focus on the actions you are not talking about the person and you do not evoke shame.
I always try wherever I can to include a positive comment when correcting as it is always helpful to the self esteem, which is critical to happiness in the long term.

Just had a similar talk with a friend of mine about to have his first, so I’ll try to share my little bit of wisdom.

First of all everyone in your life is probably telling you everything’s about to change and they’re right, but it would have been helpful had they told me how it was going to change. Every decision you make now impacts you and someone that needs you. Want to go grab some dinner? What are you doing with the baby? Want to head to the store and grab some stuff with the wife? What do you need to pack for the baby? Want to work late and get stuff caught up? How’s that work for the baby? Everybody’s arrangement is different, but my first three months of parenting or so I realized just how much I would have to compromise of my day to day freedom because each decision impacted the baby.

The second thing that nobody told me was that infants aren’t that hard. Some are so that’s no my fair to say, but a lot of them sleep 16 hours a day and when they aren’t sleeping they’re doing cute stuff. They have a few basic needs but it’s not too complicated.

Third Foos mostly hit on, do your share. When I was teaching parenting skills (before I was a parent) I was flabbergasted by how many dads really are just Neanderthals about “a mother does that” type stuff. Change diapers, swaddle the baby, put it to bed, wake up with it, feed it, etc. When our girl was a baby she had to eat every three hours so my wife and I had a nice rotation going so we both had a shift and the other got six hours of sleep.

And lastly, as they’re growing, don’t believe social media about everybody else’s babies. You’re going to start noticing that kids in the same general age range are purportedly doing things better than your kid, but that shit is all filtered through the adult. The kid said “abababababa” and the parent will tell you how their kid had a full sentence at 9 months. Kids develop at their own rate. I just KNEW my kid was behind, but now she’s a year younger than most the kids in her class and a faster reader than most of them too.

If I think of more I’ll definitely share it. Being a dad rules.

Edit: shoot forgot my best advice as the kid starts growing up and it goes along with incy’s post - Say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you don’t really care whether the kid has an ice cream sandwich, don’t tell them no just to then flip around and give in five minutes later when they whine and it’s not worth the fight. That just teaches them that you don’t mean it when you say no. Consistency of message is your best tool as a parent. I count to three for timeout and my daughter knows that if I say three she’s going to timeout no matter if it’s inconvenient. If you tell her you’ll leave the store if she grabs something off the shelf again, be prepared to leave the store. If you mean what you say, they’ll learn.

Big thanks to Foos, iNCY, and mikec with some epic quality posts and dadvice (and yes, @ness, I'm still so pleased with myself for such CLEVERNESS... just wait until I can officially start sharing all my own original dad jokes!)!

This is really resonating with me: "Consistency of message is your best tool as a parent." - as echoed by both iNCY & mikec

I think my own dad was a big proponent of this, whereas my own mom wasn't so much... and I think that probably has an impact to this day on my relationship with each of them.

Speaking of my dad, I think it was in my late teens or early twenties when he finally outright shared his personal philosophy on parenting (might've been after I started dating Wife and he perceived things were getting serious?):

[quickly, for an easier naming convention, I'm the fourth - a.k.a. IV; my dad is the third - a.k.a. III; and Baby PI Jr. will be the fifth - a.k.a. V; we apparently name boys like WrestleManias in my dad's family; anyway, I'll be calling my dad PI3, I'll be PI4, and Baby PI Jr. will be PI5 henceforth] ANYAWY, GODDAMNIT!

PI3 said his primary purpose as a parent was to prepare me to survive on my own without him. Thinking back on it now, felt like something straight out of some Mufasa-Simba interaction. Clearly, if he died when I was younger, I'd be less prepared than had he had more time... but hopefully still capable. I think a component of his prep was squirreling away whatever modest savings he could and setting up a trust to make sure no money would come my way before I was mature enough to be smart with it. Then, with him lasting as long as he has (and hopefully continues to do), his role as a parent doesn't stop. It's the same mission. It's just the prep work becomes different, reduced, easier as I accumulate more of my own life experience firsthand. He claimed he had no interest in being his child's best friend, and ultimately didn't care what his kids thought or felt about him, so long as he knew he'd done everything in his power to set them up to take care of themselves. I think he punctuated this rare glimpse into his mind with the blunt brunt statement that "As soon as you have a kid, your life ends. You start living for them."

To be honest, it all kinda put a fear in me while also simultaneously giving me HUUUGE respect for PI3. At the time, I was for sure way too immature and selfish still to be able to grasp the true depth of the notion of my life being over and having to live for someone else. And thinking about how hard it was just to take care of myself, I was like... how the fuck am I ever gonna take care of someone else? Especially to such a degree that they can go off into the world as their own functioning person?!

The other two verbatim war cries from my dad growing up were:
- I fucking HATE liars
- I fucking HATE the word "can't"

While those messages always came across very scarily when I was a kid, I look back on them now with love and respect. He was clearly championing honesty, or rather more so accountability. And then he wasn't gonna suffer lazy cowardice. He'd always talk about the concept of a comfort zone, and how it wouldn't grow if you don't step outside of it. There was no shame in trying but not succeeding. You learn from your failures, and you might even discover what you can actually do that you might not have otherwise guessed. But there's NO QUARTER for quitters who forfeit mentally before even giving something a chance.

Overall, I think PI3 was a great dad (although the things that made him a great dad IMO are also probably what made him a not-as-great spouse). So I'm torn on how much I aspire to be just like him as a dad. Here's hoping I can extract all the pros, and iron out all the cons to remain a good partner to Wife as well.

Speaking of being a good partner, Foos & mikec have mostly confirmed what I've been thinking/assuming. Wife & I took that 5 Languages of Love quiz some years back and just again recently to confirm consistent results. Her top language is Services, and I've spent years serving her already... so in a way I was already pre-conditioned into thinking she'll have so much on her plate with the baby things I can't do (boobie feed) that the best I can hope to do is everything else to make her life easier. Happy wife, happy life n'at. I only pause on the feeding thing because of a recent video we watched talking about nipple confusion if you mix bottles in with breasts in the early weeks. If that shit's just a myth though, I'm happy to jam a bottle in PI5's face too!

All in all, fear and worry and so forth aside (or even included), I'm pretty stoked for this next chapter. We've wanted it for a long time, gone through hell to get here by accident. Partly because of UT, but I was not-so-secretly pulling for PI5 to be a girl before I found out it was a boy. Then it was crazy how instantly it switched over to being ecstatic it was a little guy, and couldn't imagine it the other way around. Only drawback to a boy is Wife will be all over my ass to make sure I'm not poisoning PI5 with "Toxic Masculinity". Good thing I've got @ness here though to help me check myself before I wreck myself in that regard.

Thanks all for all the dadvice so far! Super appreciate it!

There's nothing wrong with masculinity and there is no such thing as toxic masculinity. It's just most people are assholes and some people normalise crap behaviour.

Being a man means taking responsibility, being strong, caring, defending the weak, working hard, lifting up your fellow man.
If that's toxic I want no part of this world.

May 29, 2020 14:37:10 GMT iNCY said:

There's nothing wrong with masculinity and there is no such thing as toxic masculinity. It's just most people are assholes and some people normalise crap behaviour.

Being a man means taking responsibility, being strong, caring, defending the weak, working hard, lifting up your fellow man.
If that's toxic I want no part of this world.

I mean, at the rate and direction the world has been trending since... 2001? ...I kinda want no part of it either/anyway.

May 29, 2020 2:21:38 GMT iNCY said:

Trust is the most critical part of being a parent, your child must trust you implicitly and believe with their whole heart that you want nothing but the best for them. From this I never lie tr my kids, is Santa real, how are babies born, what is dying, I never shy away from the difficult stuff and always try to answer in a way that they will understand, I do think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to "Disnefy" everything.

This interests me, and it would be the approach I would want to take if I ever become parent. What did you say to your child (children?) when you first told them that Santa Claus isn't real?

We didn’t breast feed very long, but if you’re doing that at least at first I woke up for each feeding for awhile too. It was very hard for awhile the daughter just didn’t take to it so I got up with my wife each time to do what little I could to help, even if as morale support.

May 29, 2020 1:35:08 GMT Foos said:

When my son was born, my wife didn't change a diaper for 3 weeks, until I went back to work. There's only so much you can do as a newborn dad - all they want is to be with their mother, feed from her boobies, and be close to her because for the first 4ish months, they still think they belong back inside their mother. So I did what I could to make my wife's life as easy as possible. Did all the diaper changes. Made all the food. Did all the laundry, all the chores. Of course I had wonderful skin-to-skin contact as much as possible.

My son is almost 2.5 now. He's an amazing chatterbox with a memory that blows me away. A puzzle-wizard, and wonderful little guy. I'm truly lucky to have him in my life.

I hope you're looking forward to this life altering experience Picycle!

This post just concretes what I know about Foos , he's a good man. I told you there were some amazing dads here and you'll soon be one of them! 

Unfortunately, my ex was not one of them.  I can count the number of diapers he changed on one hand and still have fingers left.  I didn't breastfeed, as I got very sick (almost died) and still he didn't feed her or take her.   I was fatigued, depressed and I cried every day for the first 3 months because she had colic and I felt I had no support or help, so please listen to these wise men and be there for Wife .  Trust me it will strengthen your bond and your bond with baby PI. 

1RealSmartAlex this is all for you too. Just because you are a foster dad, doesn't negate the fact that the child needs someone to look up to and give them the tools to be successful in life.  I think it's wonderful.  I know a couple who fostered two children and ended up adopting them and they are a lovely family and those kids are so happy. How old is your foster child/children?

May 29, 2020 17:26:17 GMT iron maiden said:

May 29, 2020 1:35:08 GMT Foos said:

When my son was born, my wife didn't change a diaper for 3 weeks, until I went back to work. There's only so much you can do as a newborn dad - all they want is to be with their mother, feed from her boobies, and be close to her because for the first 4ish months, they still think they belong back inside their mother. So I did what I could to make my wife's life as easy as possible. Did all the diaper changes. Made all the food. Did all the laundry, all the chores. Of course I had wonderful skin-to-skin contact as much as possible.

My son is almost 2.5 now. He's an amazing chatterbox with a memory that blows me away. A puzzle-wizard, and wonderful little guy. I'm truly lucky to have him in my life.

I hope you're looking forward to this life altering experience Picycle!

This post just concretes what I know about Foos , he's a good man. I told you there were some amazing dads here and you'll soon be one of them! 

Unfortunately, my ex was not one of them.  I can count the number of diapers he changed on one hand and still have fingers left.  I didn't breastfeed, as I got very sick (almost died) and still he didn't feed her or take her.   I was fatigued, depressed and I cried every day for the first 3 months because she had colic and I felt I had no support or help, so please listen to these wise men and be there for Wife .  Trust me it will strengthen your bond and your bond with baby PI. 

1RealSmartAlex  this is all for you too. Just because you are a foster dad, doesn't negate the fact that the child needs someone to look up to and give them the tools to be successful in life.  I think it's wonderful.  I know a couple who fostered two children and ended up adopting them and they are a lovely family and those kids are so happy. How old is your foster child/children?

I have 9 and 7 year old girls right now. It's going well. It seems like they're getting adjusted. We've had the 7yo for about 2 months and the 9yo for about a week. 

May 29, 2020 16:57:40 GMT mikec said:

We didn’t breast feed very long, but if you’re doing that at least at first I woke up for each feeding for awhile too. It was very hard for awhile the daughter just didn’t take to it so I got up with my wife each time to do what little I could to help, even if as morale support.

My wife breastfed for the full year until she went back to work. Pumped non-stop too. My son basically refused bottles. I think I was successful in giving him 6 bottles...ever. But like mikec said, I woke up for every single feeding for the first number of months for the following reasons:

1) My wife was starving once she started breast feeding. So I would prepare a snack (cheese and crackers, cereal, grilled cheese, etc)
2) My son had terrible acid reflux, and would throw up all of his breast milk if we put him back down. So after feeding, my wife would eat, and pump, and I would prop my son up on my legs, or hold him upright to allow for the milk to work it's way down.
3) Moral support - just like Mike said.

Sure I was tired at work. But I was a good husband and not selfish. 

Wife seems most worried about labor and delivery

Any insights into what to expect?

Forgive the highness

Is Dr. Emperor going to deliver the baby?

He needs to come in the advice thread and tell you what goes in the hospital overnight bag.

May 30, 2020 3:10:39 GMT @ness said:

Is Dr. Emperor going to deliver the baby?

He needs to come in the advice thread and tell you what goes in the hospital overnight bag.

Probably a chess set

May 29, 2020 14:37:10 GMT iNCY said:

There's nothing wrong with masculinity and there is no such thing as toxic masculinity. It's just most people are assholes and some people normalise crap behaviour.

Being a man means taking responsibility, being strong, caring, defending the weak, working hard, lifting up your fellow man.
If that's toxic I want no part of this world.

There absolutely is toxic masculinity. I'm not sure how you don't see that in the world. It's unfortunately not as simple as just classifying those that practice toxic masculinity as assholes (although they all are), it's a systemic practice. 

Of course, nothing in your second thought would be considered toxic. Those are generally all accepted as positive, and desired traits in not just men, but everybody. 

(sorry Picycle, this part can be split into a different thread if needed)

May 30, 2020 3:09:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Wife seems most worried about labor and delivery

Any insights into what to expect?

Forgive the highness

Sorry Pi, my wife had an emergency c-section, so I don't have much to add on my behalf. She was induced, and nothing happened for30 hours, so we finally convinced our OB to do the c-section. My son's enormous head combined with my wife's narrow birth canal meant that she never would have been able to deliver. 

May 30, 2020 3:16:19 GMT Foos said:

May 30, 2020 3:09:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Wife seems most worried about labor and delivery

Any insights into what to expect?

Forgive the highness

Sorry Pi, my wife had an emergency c-section, so I don't have much to add on my behalf. She was induced, and nothing happened for30 hours, so we finally convinced our OB to do the c-section. My son's enormous head combined with my wife's narrow birth canal meant that she never would have been able to deliver. 

It sounds like what we're probably facing and what I think we're bracing for

Wife says I need to know her plan and be her loud advocate because she'll be in so much pain the day of

So how do I know when I have to push the doctor, to convince her of something? I assumed they'd be the ones pushing drugs or inducing or c-section time on us in those situations?

May 30, 2020 3:09:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Wife seems most worried about labor and delivery

Any insights into what to expect?

Forgive the highness

All I can tell you is that worrying won't help and trust your instincts because nurses and doctors don't always listen.

Some of the stuff that people make out to be really normal can be really hard, so don't feel silly to ask for help. We had lactation consultants both times to help with the breast feeding.
Don't put pressure on yourselves to feel or be a certain way, it can be pretty tough for the first two to three months, just know it gets better.

As a guy there's only so much you can do, but I did everything I could. Diaper burping, housework, cooking etc. Everything just takes a big team effort.

May 30, 2020 3:16:19 GMT Foos said:

May 30, 2020 3:09:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Wife seems most worried about labor and delivery

Any insights into what to expect?

Forgive the highness

Sorry Pi, my wife had an emergency c-section, so I don't have much to add on my behalf. She was induced, and nothing happened for30 hours, so we finally convinced our OB to do the c-section. My son's enormous head combined with my wife's narrow birth canal meant that she never would have been able to deliver. 

Sounds familiar.

My wife’s inducement failed, had to wait 24hrs. She stayed in hospital, tried again the next day, fail again. Wait 24hrs. Eventually attempt number 3 worked, however the epidural was botched.. and then we eventually convince the Doc to do an emergency c-section as my wife was exhausted at this point. The kid has a massive head, that thing was never coming through as hard as she pushed.

May 30, 2020 5:28:32 GMT NATH45 said:

May 30, 2020 3:16:19 GMT Foos said:

Sorry Pi, my wife had an emergency c-section, so I don't have much to add on my behalf. She was induced, and nothing happened for30 hours, so we finally convinced our OB to do the c-section. My son's enormous head combined with my wife's narrow birth canal meant that she never would have been able to deliver. 

Sounds familiar.

My wife’s inducement failed, had to wait 24hrs. She stayed in hospital, tried again the next day, fail again. Wait 24hrs. Eventually attempt number 3 worked, however the epidural was botched.. and then we eventually convince the Doc to do an emergency c-section as my wife was exhausted at this point. The kid has a massive head, that thing was never coming through as hard as she pushed.

I should have had a C-Section. If she goes over 24hrs push for one. That’s all I’ll say.

Women have babies every day and it’s hard, but in the end you come out with the most wonderful of miracles.

May 30, 2020 3:10:39 GMT @ness said:

Is Dr. Emperor going to deliver the baby?

I am qualified to do this.

Also had a C Section, but only after about 8 hours. The epidural slowed all of the progress she was making and every contraction the baby’s heart rate went down so it wasn’t much of a discussion.

We had a rough experience the first time, got sent home because K's contractions weren't in a pattern.
Then they never set into a pattern, after a rough night of contractions we went back in to find that my wife had already transitioned and was fully dilated and effaced and we were ready to start pushing, but my daughter had become distressed and the heart rate was too low so it was a vacuum assisted birth and my wife had to go to theatre for stitches afterwards...
So the second time I was more assertive.

But the second time apart from the fact the went two weeks over and they brought on the birth... It all went much smoother.

But, I am too much of a stress head to have enjoyed any of it. Wouldn't have bothered me to not be in the room and be called when it was all over... But I would never do that to my wife, but it wasn't an amazing experience for me... Holding my girls for the first time absolutely was though...our first I held her and walked the corridors of the hospital for two hours while my wife was in theatre... I will never forget the way she looked up at me with knowing eyes like she knew I was her Dad and would die for her.

Lots in here to re-read, digest, and respond to.

Briefly, re: the toxic masculinity thing—

Wife echoed Foos in that those great traits iNCY listed shouldn't be considered exclusively for males. Suppose I'll agree, even though my initial read was only a half-baked "hell yeah, these traits would make for an epic good man!"

I think the toxic masculinity she wants me to avoid is things like only saying/doing x because you're a boy or y because you're a girl. I said something joking to the effect of I wished we were having a girl so that I could dance with her in the kitchen while making food. To which Wife quickly countercorrected me to say I can absolutely dance with a boy.

Think it probably also relates to emoting as a dad, especially to a boy, as male to male communication and expression of emotion can be a challenge regardless of relationship. Reminds me of how PI3 would randomly pop by my room when growing up and say "I love you. I want to make sure I say that more than my dad did."

Toxic masculinity is kind of a tricky subject. Weakness in men is still regarded as unattractive. Knowing the social stigma associated with a man crying or asking for help you'd think it would be considered a true image of strength, but it really isn't so you can't really fault men for holding it inside or at least not sharing his inner most feelings with their significant others for fearing of the relationship ending due to that perceived weakness. You can't change biology and that part of our brains is not negotiable. If you guys are discussing "toxic masculinity" without cringing at saying those words out loud you probably have yourself a keeper so nothing to worry about.

Then again she's about to birth a child so it's too late to back out now.