System do you have much experience with tables and the more hardcore side of wrestling? More speaking in terms of "WWE no dq" gimmicks over death match, which I assume you have never done.

What moves look nasty but are actually really nice to take?

What moves look soft but are actually really awful to take?

who is your favorite Mark in pro wrestling?

Wouldn't it just be smarter and easier to just use some type of fake blood gimmick made out of corn syrup instead of actually you know, slicing your fucking face open with a razor blade?

May 5, 2023 10:56:22 GMT Neo Zeed said:

Wouldn't it just be smarter and easier to just use some type of fake blood gimmick made out of corn syrup instead of actually you know, slicing your fucking face open with a razor blade?

Until reading this post I never actually thought about how outdated and crude and downright unnecessary blading actually is. A relic of the kayfabe era when wrestlers had to get into bar fights just to protect their identity. Good shout.

Don't ignore us System!!!

Reason I asked is I wanted to know if you're familiar with how they gimmick the tables and why they tend to not break when you got 200 lbs dropping on it when it already had a good amount of weight on it as we see sometimes the table collapses just based on the prone wrestler on top.

Feds I been at the tables were not gimmicked. They were just cheaply made, longer tables.

Here is old face to talk about it.

May 5, 2023 10:56:22 GMT Neo Zeed said:

Wouldn't it just be smarter and easier to just use some type of fake blood gimmick made out of corn syrup instead of actually you know, slicing your fucking face open with a razor blade?

Most do not use corn syrup you can tell when the blood is fake.  It is not the right color, it does not flow right, or it gets weirdly chunky.  And if you pop it early it gives up you are using a gimmick.  

Most blade jobs should heal almost instantly without a scar if you take care of it after the match.  Jay Briscoe when he did the  Dusty bladejob against Joe had no scar and it was healed up the next day for the most part.  Meanwhile looked like he was bleeding to death in the match.  Same for when he did it and Jacobs hung him.

But blade jobs also should be uncommon really which makes them special.  If you are gigging in a normal match then you are an idiot.

May 5, 2023 8:50:05 GMT Emperor said:

What moves look nasty but are actually really nice to take?

What moves look soft but are actually really awful to take?

Worst move to take is a hard chop.  What is not shown in many matches, is if you get hit hard enough from a chop it oozes blood.  Then over the next 12 hours turns pitch black and keeps oozing for several days and becoming crusty.  Can even leave scars.

Chops are the sole move you do where you are trying to hurt people, albeit, in a safe space.  Outside of a botch leading to an injury these are the worst move you can take.  At mid speed they are not bad.  But that puro style, put all your power into it ones are disgusting in the aftermath, and few really seem them as any different than a normal one, except for the deeper sound.

I did not bump much so no talk on the bumpy moves that look harsh but are not.  A lot of moves though you can roll through so they look brutal, but you really are rolling through what appears to be getting spiked on your head.

Chops do look nasty to take, so I'm not surprised they are nasty to take! NJPW guys are chopping each other hard all the time and I'm not seeing any scars. Very rarely do I see blood either, usually just a reddened chest. So yeah I bet it's painful but what you're talking about is probably quite rare.

Usually cameras are not close enough to notice, or you just see the welts as the redness covers out the capillary bleeding. It is crush bleeding so it does not look like normal bleeding, super hard to explain. Shit gets groudy like an hour or two afterwards as the ooze starts to crust.

Most do not hit hard enough to really fuck you up as you need to really lean into it. And most guys will not take super hard chops as there is no reason to get fucked up. But some guys like Dragon do them super hard and people will take them and you get the nasty shit.

My friend was hit on an indy show, and the guy just hit him with the perfect chop. Sounded like my friend was shot and he just dropped in agony. He took the chop as the finish was him punching the guy legit in the nuts during a ladder match.
Post match just this yellow ooze coming out of his chest which was a sick shade of green. Was the last time he let someone chop him that hard. Like was still black a week later and his chest really hurt for the next three days.

We were like backstage googling what the fuck to do for it as he was bleeding but not cut.  Just like smeared neosporin on it and gauze taped it up.  

///

If anyone wants to know what it is like to take a chop or see this up close, just ask a wrestler to give you a hard chop.  Many love chopping fans.  I learned the hard way...

May 6, 2023 23:50:44 GMT c said:

[several paragraphs describing how gross it is to take a hard chop]

If anyone wants to know what it is like to take a chop or see this up close, just ask a wrestler to give you a hard chop.  Many love chopping fans.  I learned the hard way...

I do have a morbid curiosity, but I don't have the fighting spirit to actually go through with it, supposing I had the opportunity.

Sorry @ness work a lot more lately so haven’t had as much time for PW.
Feel free to ask more questions! Timing is good though as I have an upcoming match to shill!



Anyway

My very first show I had to interfere in the main event and help smash someone through a table (13:24) Haven’t been put through one myself but all I know is when it breaks it’s fine, when it doesn’t you can get splinters and it hurts a lot. For the Indy’s I’ve seen they just went to Bunnings (hardware store) and got a cheap table and took a heap of screws out of it. Probably something better left to the bigger productions rather than ending up on botchamania because they hardly ever want to break on the indies :lol:


(Syd Parker cost me my first match prior to this)

(Ignore my involvement this is a great match)

Mikey Lord understandably was a bit confused and annoyed as to why I was involved in a main event in my first match but I didn’t book it.



I’ve had 3 No DQ matches, this one above against Shane Saw at AWF and two against D’Licious for KWE. I have just clips of the latter which is a shame as my first match with D’Licious is one of my favs. Will edit clips in later when I find them.

Emperor

German suplex is fine if it’s a release, same with any move that allows you to bump properly and freely.

The coup de grace fucking hurts and it looks like the person barely touches them and slips off. Fisherman Suplex/any hook move where you can’t absorb the bump as much.

bodyslam

Calloway

Neo Zeed

Yep, I’ve never bladed not because I’ve refused but just have worked for mostly family friendly companies. When they did it for HVW they at least had the common sense to get a blood test but it doesn’t seem worth the risk on the indies. Someone could stab someone to death in the middle of the ring and people would still think it was fake so deathmatch wrestling isn’t something I see myself partaking in. Respect to the people that do though.

Emperor c

I started training in 2010 so a lot of stuff in wrestling culture that doesn’t fly now like just seeing female trainees/wrestlers as conquests
And some hazing.

The day we learnt chops my chest was deep purple, got chopped hundreds of times. One of the guys was late so we had to line up and chop him when he got there.



I was helping out with this show from 11am and just got told in passing I was going over. Told this guy below when he finally rocked up at 5:30pm and he was pissed off about it and stiffed me most of the match until I tweaked his knee. I told him to move about 10 times on that elbow drop, crowd and the ref heard it but he didn’t apparently.
(4:00 no selling here this genuinely hurt like a MF). I think I’m easy enough to work with (although I veto a lot of stupidity) but this isn’t a good match I’d refuse to work this guy again.

Wrestlers are sadistic fucks I would never chance that. They probably learn in wrestling school to be extra rough with marks to keep up the kayfabe!

Interesting to hear that about the fisherman suplex stuff. Took a fast northern lights suplex real early on and got slammed into my shoulder and my arm went numb. That was it for me and bumps.

Was there for a class at the dojo where the trainer was teaching my friend how to counter shooting. Was a lot of really dirty shit like nose hooking, finger locks and shooting in for joint locks.

One thing I was thankful for was there was not a hazing culture at the place my friend trained at. There was harsh cardio work, but that was needed to wrestle. No outright abusing people though just to abuse them. Everyone I met was super nice to me even though it was clear I did not want to train, just hang around and help out when I could.

Ya ever feel like it's just a fucking waste? Going to Home Depot, buying a table just to have it go straight in a dumpster.

Who would you say is the biggest name you've worked an actual match with. You can even stretch it to you simply being a ref or an outside character involved in the feud. Have you been in the same locker room with some big name talent in your time? I think you may have mentioned EC3 did a seminar... is that the answer to both?

Honest question, when they book guys like that and they do a speech to the wrestling school (usually taped for dvds back in the glory days of roh and such) do you ever feel like you actively gain from it? Being in the ring with them maybe for some drills? Or is that just "theatre" for the DVD market? Even in 2023 for as exposed as the business is, do you think there's still a lot of romanticism to wrestling and the idea of the indies? Like despite being as focused on it as anyone can be, are "marks" still mostly ignorant/unaware of what's going on?

My friends and I did a lot of (relatively safe!) backyard-style wrestling in the mid-late 90s. I resurrected it one day with this guy Boo while drunk on a weekend trip to scenic Western Maryland in 02 or 03. We were SUPPOSED to go to wrestling school together. Long story. Anyway, it was there that I took the most painful bump of my life. I didn't tuck my chin on a Full Nelson Slam and the back of my head landed HARD on the grass. No sold it to my friends as best I could, but, yeah, I saw stars like a cartoon character and went to sleep it off asap.

During our mid-late 90s run of playing wrestler my brother was game for almost anything except for double underhook moves. You never really think about that when seeing butterfly suplexes or Pearl River Plunges, but it was the getting lifted up by the arms part rather than the back bump that my brother just couldn't abide.

Biggest guy at a show I was doing ring crew for was Mr Fuji. Was sad meeting him though as it was a few years before he died and he was in a lot of pain. Lawler was always a fun guy when he was at shows. Really just liked to joke around and have fun. While I was only at one show with him David Arquette was super cool. Dude was super sinere, and just happy to be wrestling. My friend was a massive fan of Ready to Rumble and think he was overwhelmed that it was like a dream come true for him to work with him.

The special seminars vary. Some are for DVDs but most are not taped and just friends of the school coming by. And the value comes from the person. Candito and Dreamer gave some great advice on psychology and working safe. Credible, not so much, but he was in rough shape at that time. Heard he cleaned up a lot after.

Most schools have two types of these things though. The pay to attend ones, which likely are also recorded for DVD, and the personal ones, which are free if you are at the school. The pay ones you see online but the free ones are smaller ones usually with the guys just chilling and telling stories or giving advice. Rarely get in the ring, only if they want to show off something in particular. But the advice is always solid. I know my friend wanted to be a flyer like Jeff Hardy and over time they talked him out of it, and now my friend wrestles super, super safe. He also is mega over as he did listen to all of the psychology talk and built up an amazing character that fans love to hate.

From the stories I heard while at these talks, a Dreamer one comes to mind as my favorite sharable one. He was talking about a kid he wrestled that wanted to blade three times in a match. Traditionally you cut once in a normal match, and twice in a barbwire match in the old ECW era. Kid he was facing wanted to REALLY put on a show and wanted to cut three times. Dreamer had to tell him he was being an idiot because he either gets good color off one, or it does not matter how many more times he cuts himself, it will not just not look good. Match happens Dreamer cuts once gets great blood. Kid does his three cuts like an idiot and ends up bleeding a lot but does not look like he bleed more than Dreamer did the blood runs in the same place basically. Post match Dreamer has a little cut, and this kid is all cut up on the forehead, with no real effect, and more importantly, not getting the pay to even be cutting in the first place. So dude cut himself up basically for fun.

Kid did not realize if you want to bleed a lot you need to cut different too. Rather than cutting multiple times, you cut cut at an angle creating a small tunnel under the skin. Called the Dusty bladejob in some places, and you will spit out blood like crazy for about 10 minutes, then the flap heals over and it closely safely if you then bandage it up after the match leaving only a minor scar if that. Dreamer did not teach the kid it because he did not think the kid needed to blade in the first place. This was the same blade job that Jay used in that Joe cage match I mentioned above. Dreamer said you do not cut unless you are getting paid enough to cut though, and the same for working really any hardcore shit.

@ness

Ya ever feel like it's just a fucking waste? Going to Home Depot, buying a table just to have it go straight in a dumpster.

I feel that way about life at times.

Who would you say is the biggest name you've worked an actual match with. You can even stretch it to you simply being a ref or an outside character involved in the feud. Have you been in the same locker room with some big name talent in your time? I think you may have mentioned EC3 did a seminar... is that the answer to both?

Are we counting Young Rock superstar Slade Mercer? Other than announcing James Storm to the ring I haven’t worked with any huge names.

Side note I’ve only reffed once and it was a championship match so it was more stressful than wrestling. My dad also reffed for a show as we couldn’t find anyone (this was during the infamous lockdowns in Australia and Sydneysiders weren’t permitted to leave Sydney…90% of our roster) and he really enjoyed it.


Robbie Eagles, EC3,Eugene,Sonjay Dutt,James Storm and I apparently briefly met Buddy Murphy in his Matt Silva does but I don’t remember it tbh. I’ve said this before but recap for those playing at home.

Robbie Eagles:
Both pre and post NJPW fame, just brief conversations but always cordial to everyone.

EC3:
Was cool, we were told to be nice and respectful but not act like a total fucking mark.
So as soon as he gets there one of the boys offers to buy him lunch at KFC (one look at EC3 you know he doesn’t eat KFC :lol:), asks for his autograph and pays for a picture later that he could have got a free selfie for.
Said guy ended up paying for EC3 (he had chicken breast, shocker) and his girlfriend’s dinner (proposed while in Aus) and sat there as an awkward third wheel. Worked the mark.

Eugene:
I just shook his hand and said hello and that was it, but it was just surreal never seeing him outside of his special needs gimmick than just getting “Hi, I’m Nick” from a deceptively big dude. Then he’d meet fans and just snap back into gimmick effortlessly, people have their opinions on the character but the kids loved it.
He was understandably tired as he flew in from LA (13+ hour trip not counting his connection before that) then got picked up from Sydney airport and taken directly to the show. His fiancé was hot AF and hearing him swear at the wrestlers when explaining something in a match was hilarious.

Sonjay Dutt:
I’ve never heard someone swear/cuss so much in my life…and I’m a bartender in Australia. Did a seminar with him which was good but he was just an intense and angry guy, absolute delivered on every match he was booked for that weekend though.

James Storm:
Best till last, I enjoyed Storm’s work prior to meeting him but never went out of my way to watch his stuff. Now if he is on a card I’ll go out of my way to check it out as he is the coolest dude ever.

They booked two hotels for him, one cheap one right near the venue if he needed a nap/to freshen up etc and a much more expensive hotel for after the shows (two show deal). He just told promoter cheap hotel was fine and someone else had the other hotel.

People went home on the first night to Sydney and didn’t seem to want to talk to him much (as people have had bad interactions with internationals) so Sandra and I just talked to him for quite awhile. He even helped with ring crew!


Honest question, when they book guys like that and they do a speech to the wrestling school (usually taped for dvds back in the glory days of roh and such) do you ever feel like you actively gain from it? Being in the ring with them maybe for some drills? Or is that just "theatre" for the DVD market? Even in 2023 for as exposed as the business is, do you think there's still a lot of romanticism to wrestling and the idea of the indies? Like despite being as focused on it as anyone can be, are "marks" still mostly ignorant/unaware of what's going on?

Admittedly a lot of it is to cover the cost of booking said talent. People talk trash about EX WWE guys wrestling on the indies but they normally get

Flight/hotel paid + fees that start at a minimum of $1000. Most a lot more. So do that 3x a weekend + a few shows for companies that do tapings like Impact or NWA or own a wrestling school and you can live comfortably. So if your crowd of a few hundred people don’t cover costs making the boys pay $50 each can help.

So to answer your question the primary reason is financial but they do offer some moments of wisdom. EC3’s seminar was mostly about how to work a televised match, paying attention to cameras and how to present yourself in a visual medium.

As you’ve pointed out yourself, pro wrestling is a niche hobby now. Old timers get upset with super marks that pretend to know more than they do about wrestling…but they are the whales (in the gambling sense) keeping wrestling alive. The 1.1ers don’t get respect!

I understand people buying into rumours in WWE but on the indies rumours will start that someone isn’t booked/dropping a title because of some backstage drama and it’s just something like they couldn’t get out of their shift at McDonalds or they are going on holiday.

Definitely romanticism, it’s more like helping co-workers move furniture for 10 hours and getting a 5-10 match as a reward. Sometimes I get the Kevin Nash attitude of it’s all a work who cares, but I’m not making Nash money so I’d like to win a belt before I retire :lol:

Sometimes I feel like I’ve done nothing of merit in wrestling, especially when do the J-O-B a lot & friends and family aren’t really interested in coming to shows after the initial novelty of “my friend/brother is a wrestler” wears off. But I know I’m entertaining as a heel and serve my purpose getting the heat needed and I’ve seen a lot of people have like 3 matches and retire. I’ll be going on 10 years next year so I can’t complain too much as no matter what I seemingly still have the love of strangers on the internet ❤️.

No one is working the small indies to get paid. I did stuff for free admission and undressed copies of show DVDs. And because it was a hell of a lot of fun even if not involved directly in the show.

I remember one show a ref whining about his pay. He got $20 for the show and complained it did not cover gas. Meanwhile a bunch of us got to the venue four hours before him, and would be there until he locked door, and all worked for free. Most of the ring crew also worked matches for free. We were trying to build up a fan base, which did pay, but this was at the start when we were lucky to even break even on rent. Someone gave him another $20 and told him next show not to bother showing up as one of the other guys helping out would just get a shirt. That night ref was one of the highest paid guys on the show.

I've heard a lot of wrestlers don't look at their matches as fondly as the fans do. What would you say is your "best" match? Like even if you're super modest and saying it's only a *** do you have a favorite or is it different watching vs. participating? Essentially you ever rewatch your stuff? Is that part of the "art" studying yourself? So that's why it's hard to look back fondly.

Two types of wrestlers. Some never watch their shit, and others do looking to improve. My buddy would study his matches early on in his career looking for shit to improve. Others I know simply never watched their matches at all.

System what is the largest and smallest crowds you've worked for?

@ness




AWF Return to the Wrestling (27/03/21 - Mothership Studios)
No DQ
Fergus Ferguson VS Shane Saw


My favourite match is either my match with Shane Saw posted above,
hadn’t wrestled for that fed in years and just got randomly booked in a no DQ match with no build and the crowd were into it and behind me.
I hadn’t work babyface in years either so I’m proud of it.

KWE 1-2-3 fight (01/08/21 - Telarah Bowling Club)
Lollipop Mountain Mayhem Match
Fergus Ferguson VS D’Licious

Or my first match with D’Licious I sadly don’t have full footage off, which is most of my matches. If you even get the footage of the promoter it takes forever. Promoters don’t want to upload video for free as they want people to go to the shows & people don’t want to pay watch a local show online.

Family/friends aren’t really interested in going to shows so I just have rely on super fans that upload clips from every local show.

I watch every match I can of mine except of my most recent matches which was horrible and made me want to quit wrestling until I redeemed myself on the next show. No coincidence it was against D’Licious again this time for the 600 Championship which I sadly didn’t win but it was another good match.

also it doesn’t really count as my involvement was minimal but this match was highly rated among fans, I also took a superplex to the outside for the first time so that was interesting.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155866875175023&id=660020022&mibextid=qC1gEa

HVW
Team Falco (Fergus,Randal,Tarlee,Slade Mercer,Mikey Lord)
VS
Team Parker
(Syd Parker,Anubis,The Misfit,Mr.Mortis,Benny Factor)

May 7, 2023 12:01:50 GMT bodyslam said:

System what is the largest and smallest crowds you've worked for?

Least probably about 30 people, most 400.

Who was this? 🤣

Doesn't sound like a big fan!

Said match. I thought it was ok, awkward at times but crowd were behind me and it put Ramirez over.

in his promo he said he was going to knock me out, and the finish was going to be via pin (he had a title match the show after this).
So I got the finish changed to him winning via knockout

So I thought the DDT into sleeper finish was cool, how many times do you see the babyface not get their arm up at the 3rd raise?

But if you’re not a BigFanEither i’m sorry 🤣

@ around 5:00 you got slapped in the back (randomly selected) so it brings up a question for this thread.

We know chops hurt, do the "SMACKS" we hear actually a shoot or is it worked to make the sound? Also if a guy goes overboard do you dish out receipts (assuming he can't kick your ass for real of course)?

I was second row when Homicide slapped Corino so hard in the side of the head Corino ruptured his eardrum. That one clearly was not worked as Corino laid in the ring for a half hour after the match waiting for EMTs.