First Duggan sighting on Superstars since WrestleMania VIII as far as I recall, and can't say I missed his presence?

First hype segment for the returning Bob Backlund. Honestly, more pomp and circumstance or whatever than I would've guessed. I think he could've easily and readily been pushed better/stronger prior to mid-94.

Perfect with some epic foreshadowing on commentary talking about how he and Flair will be in the Survivor Series main event (before the main event has even been announced).

Doesn't seem like it would've been all that hard to keep Papa Shango protected and pushed well enough to make him better WrestleMania IX fodder for Undertaker. Or at least a face Kamala.

I wonder if Vince brought Bob Backland back as a babyface just to turn him heel.

The Beverlies appear for the first time in a long time, and I forget already how they seemed like a team with real title contention momentum between WrestleMania and SummerSlam before all those random pivots. Now it's hard not to view them as lost-momentum scrubs.

Meanwhile, terrible High Energy, who hasn't been seen or heard from in just as long, suddenly seems like they're a fresh hot tag team starting to build some real momentum.

Wow, Bret's title win outta nowhere goes over even worse than the pre-SummerSlam pivots. He really is a midcard world champ. His first title run definitely needs revised through some revisionist history booking. Woof.

Wondering if the Ultimate Maniacs had a red and yellow color scheme because of Slim Jim sponsorship reasons or because the WWF is trying to induce Hulk Hogan memories in fans?

Most compelling angle at this time is the tension being teased because Jimmy Hart can't or refuses to say which of his teams deserves next tag title shot at Disasters.

Roster feels to thin to field a very full card for Survivor Series, but I keep coming back to my proto Evolution Horsemen idea and also how terribly random all these pivots are...

Thinking of a rebooked arc from SummerSlam through Survivor Series looking like this:

Savage/Warrior ends as it does IRL at SummerSlam, as does the title switch back to Flair thanks to Razor interfering. Ultimate Maniacs form in response. Fuck it, you can even still include the Saskatoon switch to Bret. I guess it technically could work fine in this arc. Anyway... Shawn joins up with Flair & Razor, who now pay a pivotal role in helping Shawn beat Bulldog for the IC title.

This all builds up to a main event Survivor Series elimination match with captain midcard world champ Bret Hart, former IC champ Bulldog, and new BFFs the Ultimate Maniacs taking on Flair, Razor, IC champ HBK, plus a TBD 4th. Flair reveals they have the PERFECT 4th: the returning-to-action Mr. Perfect!

Steroids cost us Warrior and Bulldog, so we get subs on the face team. A returning former world champ Bob Backlund replaces former world champ Warrior. And a surprise returning Marty Jannetty replaces Bulldog. These last minute subs are blamed for the lack of chemistry on the face team.

Faces lose in an almost clean sweep. Perfect is the only one eliminated on the heel side to help sow seeds for his potential eventual face turn. Flair pinning Bret to get some of his heat back from the bullshit Saskatoon switch and set up an eventual rematch. Thinking Razor eliminates Savage and HBK eliminates Marty to further build those feuds. Either Backlund jobs to Flair to have one former world champ help rebuild another, or protect Bob with a Count-out elimination or something. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself...

Based on how things either were headed or easily could've headed heading into Survivor Series '92, I propose the following card:

4-on-4 Survivor Series Elimination Match: The Equestrian Quartet (Ric Flair, Razor Ramon, Mr. Perfect & Intercontinental Champion Shawn Michaels) (w/ Sensational Sherri) vs. The Hitman' s Hitmen (WWF Champion Bret Hart, Randy Savage, Bob Backlund {sub. for The Ultimate Warrior} & Marty Jannetty {sub. for The British Bulldog})
Buildup and booking as touched upon above. Idea is to lead into a Royal Rumble '93 PPV where Flair baits Bret into defending the WWF title in the Rumble... from the #1 slot, no less! Meanwhile, Savage battles Razor in a macho vs. machismo match. HBK retains the IC title against Marty like IRL thanks to botched interference from Sherri.

EDIT: Fuck, to be continued...

Dec 4, 2021 14:14:14 GMT 🤯 said:

Most compelling angle at this time is the tension being teased because Jimmy Hart can't or refuses to say which of his teams deserves next tag title shot at Disasters.

Who else did Jimmy manage besides Money INC?

Dec 4, 2021 13:39:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Wow, Bret's title win outta nowhere goes over even worse than the pre-SummerSlam pivots. He really is a midcard world champ. His first title run definitely needs revised through some revisionist history booking. Woof.

Thank you! Finally somebody else gets it. Feel like I've been screaming into the void for nearly a decade or three on this.

Dec 4, 2021 22:50:27 GMT Ed said:

Dec 4, 2021 14:14:14 GMT 🤯 said:

Most compelling angle at this time is the tension being teased because Jimmy Hart can't or refuses to say which of his teams deserves next tag title shot at Disasters.

Who else did Jimmy manage besides Money INC?

Nasty Boys

Need 🤯 to find the point Bret grows into champion, when it stops feeling midcard, if ever in that first run.

Dec 5, 2021 0:18:15 GMT Kilgore said:

Need 🤯 to find the point Bret grows into champion, when it stops feeling midcard, if ever in that first run.

I'm also curious to get 🤯's take. Had written out my own journey with Bret but I'll hold off from sharing because I don't want to influence the Pieman. Will post when (if?) PI gets to the point where he buys into Bret as a top guy.

I'll argue outside of Flair's RR win, his WWF title runs felt mid-card-ish.

Dec 5, 2021 1:13:53 GMT Ed said:

I'll argue outside of Flair's RR win, his WWF title runs felt mid-card-ish.

Goddamn, can make the case the WWF title was midcard for the entire year.

Dec 5, 2021 1:13:53 GMT Ed said:

I'll argue outside of Flair's RR win, his WWF title runs felt mid-card-ish.

Dec 5, 2021 2:12:09 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 5, 2021 1:13:53 GMT Ed said:

I'll argue outside of Flair's RR win, his WWF title runs felt mid-card-ish.

Goddamn, can make the case the WWF title was midcard for the entire year.

Absolutely. The "main event" of 1992 WWF disappeared along with Hogan, Sid, Piper, and Warrior. It's insane how "less than" everything else feels. Such a drop off from the peak of the Hogan run.

Dec 5, 2021 0:57:23 GMT Baker said:

Dec 5, 2021 0:18:15 GMT Kilgore said:

Need 🤯 to find the point Bret grows into champion, when it stops feeling midcard, if ever in that first run.

I'm also curious to get 🤯's take. Had written out my own journey with Bret but I'll hold off from sharing because I don't want to influence the Pieman. Will post when (if?) PI gets to the point where he buys into Bret as a top guy.

As a kid watching tapes after the fact, I bought Bret as a top guy upon first seeing him. That was probably late '95 / early' 96 Bret.

Based on this watch through, I'm assuming things don't start getting better for Bret until... Well, shit, thinking about it, probably never? Poor guy is always second fiddle at best to everyone.

Since we're on the topic...

I think it's a bit of a major miracle that Bret came to be generally perceived as big as he is/was, especially in real time, considering how he was pushed into and then in the main event scene.

The Saskatoon Switch happens literally out of nowhere, with him beating fellow midcard champ Flair weeks after Flair won the title back out of nowhere. And it happens on the heels of not seeing or hearing anything of or from Bret since he lost the IC title to Bulldog at SummerSlam. And the bone thin storyline is what caused the Excellence of Execution to lose... was it a Papa Shango curse!?

Things could've and should've been handled so much better.

And then Bret's GRADUAL push into the main event should've been more organic and culminated with a REAL crowning moment... Or series of them.

So here's what I propose as a correction to Bret's history. It doesn't get the world title on his as soon as real life, but it hopefully does more for Bret's standing in real time and in hindsight.

= = = = = = = = = =

Get Bret on TV in the immediate wake of SummerSlam, cutting a promo about how Bulldog was the better man on the night at SummerSlam. He's proud of his brother in law, knows he has it in him to be a great champion, and for the sake of their family Bret won't be exercising the rematch clause in his contract. Instead, Bret will be supporting Bulldog in Bulldog's initial reign as IC champ while moving on to chase the world title.

WWF Champion Macho Man cuts a promo welcoming the new challenge from Bret, but says he owes Ultimate Warrior a proper rematch first, and also feels a need to deal once she for all with that midcard a-hole Flair. Warrior cuts a promo saying if/when he becomes WWF Champion again, he'll gladly put the title on the line against a fresh challenger like Bret.

But then, Hershey Highway Robbery happens when Flair wins the world title back from an injured Macho Man thanks to outside interference from relative newcomer Razor.

We build to Survivor Series as I previously outlined. Flair starts forming a stable with Razor and Perfect. For lack of a better name, I'm just gonna stick with the Equestrian Quartet for now. Anyway... The Ultimate Maniacs formally form to stand against Flair (w/ Perfect) & Razor.

Meanwhile, while the world title is tied up in the Savage/Flair/Razor/Warrior bullshit, Bulldog says he wants to give Bret a rematch despite what Best says because Bulldog needs to prove to himself just as much if not more than anyone else that his title win over Bret wasn't a fluke.

But insert steroids and that October SNME to fuck shit up.

Bulldog's title defense against HBK becomes a title switch because Bulldog is abruptly on his way out. En route there we have Flair cut a promo about being the greater champion than Bulldog, and Bulldog retorting that he'd eat Flair alive in the ring (even if Flair would taste worse than dog food) whenever Flair wants to step into the squared circle to prove it, yadda yadda yadda...

It all leads to Flairference at the October SNME causing Bulldog to lose the IC title to HBK. WWF Champion Flair cuts a promo saying he interfered to send a message to now-former IC Champion Bulldog: Flair is the Dirtiest Player in the Game™©®, and To Be The Man, Ya Gotta Beat The Man™©®.

In the October SNME main event, Razor & Perfect comes out to distract the Ultimate Maniacs in their tag title match against Money Incorporated. Legal man Warrior chases after Razor, getting himself counted out and not reappearing until WrestleMania XII.

In the wake of the October SNME, IC Champion HBK becomes an official member of the Equestrian Quartet. Flair announces Perfect as their perfect fourth man. The Macho Man and Hitman find subpar replacements for Warrior and Bulldog in Howdy Doody Backlund and Jannetty. But since the Saskatoon Switch doesn't happen, the booking of the main event elimination match at Survivor Series goes differently...

Marty eliminates Shawn to put himself not only in but at the head of the line for an IC title shot. Razor eliminates Marty after crucifix powerbombing him to hell to look like an impressive baddie. Flair pins squeaky clean good guy Backlund with a handful of tights and feet on the ropes to prove the times have changed in the WWF and playing dirty makes for a better world champ. Macho is counted out after he goes up for a diving elbow on Flair, but Razor shoves him off... to the outside... causing Macho to crash and burn on the floor and re-tweak his knee.

Bret must now go it alone against three fourths of the Equestrian Quartet. Bret eliminates Razor first, playing possum to bait the Bad Guy into a Razor's Edge attempt... only to catch him off guard with a quick jackknife roll-up. Perfect is eliminated by pinfall next, entering the ring and charging Bret only to be caught in a flash small package. An irate Flair is heard saying "If you want something done right, ya gotta do it yourself" as he enters the ring. Bret ends up pinning the reigning WWF Champion when he counters a superplex into a crossbody press mid-move.

In the wake of Survivor Series, Flair wants nothing to do with Bret. In promos Flair claims it's because Bret isn't on his level just because of some fluke pin in an eight-man elimination match. Bret on his best day wasn't, isn't, and will never be good enough to lace Flair's boots. However, Bret and various commentators speculate Flair deep down really knows Bret has his number and that's why the Nature BOY is ducking the HitMAN. Bret says his new year's resolution is to get Flair one on one in a world title match.

Bret gets his wish when the title match is announced for Royal Rumble '93. The Equestrian Quartet pull strings to get Perfect assigned as the special guest referee though. To ensure no shenanigans, Perfect is threatened with banishment from the WWF if he doesn't call the match right down the middle. Perfect finds himself in an odd spot then begrudgingly awarding the match to Bret after he counters a figure-four leg lock into a Sharpshooter and a stubborn Flair passes out from the pain. Bret is at least now crowned WWF Champion on PPV in a built up bout.

In a post-match interview segment, a recovered and irate Flair RIPS into Perfect to set up their Loser Leaves Town on the following RAW (which Perfect wins to send Flair packing, as in real life).

Savage wins the Rumble after last eliminating Razor, and earns the first-ever WrestleMania title shot as a result. Bret "retires" Savage in a world title main event at WMIX that rivals Bret/Piper and Savage/Flair from WMVIII in terms of quality. Savage shakes Bret's hand and raises his arm after the match to put the New Generation over. Savage subsequently joins the broadcast team, and puts Bret over hard on commentary all the time.

TO BE CONTINUED...

Man, by appearance and name value alone, it's a shame the Warrior couldn't hang around to really make the Ultimate Maniacs a thing.

Tom Stone is literally every neighborhood dad from my childhood turned into a wrestler.

First tease of the Taker/Nailz program. Has fans buzzing!

Footage from Wrestling Challenge of Nasties turning face after Hart picks Money Incorporated.

This so should've led to Money Incorporated vs. Nasties at Royal Rumble '93.

Headshrinkers debut(?) by helping Money Incorporated win back the tag titles.

Then in the next segment Yokozuna debuts.

The Samoan SWAT Team has arrived!

UGH, Money INC. WAS garbage. I remember the last time I watched Summer Slam 93 thinking, why are these guys still a team? the only thing worthwhile about them was their part in Razor Roman turning babyface.

The cameraman should act as the start of an ERA.

Cameraman fireball (or whatever the finish was) for Yokozuna over Hogan brought on the new generation. Sid with the camera may have ushered in the tude before Vince did the promo. Obvious huge chunks of 96 go unofficial. Did we ever get a camera spot for ruthless aggression/pg era? If not this theory was short lived.

Dec 5, 2021 23:28:13 GMT @ness said:

The cameraman should act as the start of an ERA.

Cameraman fireball (or whatever the finish was) for Yokozuna over Hogan brought on the new generation. Sid with the camera may have ushered in the tude before Vince did the promo. Obvious huge chunks of 96 go unofficial. Did we ever get a camera spot for ruthless aggression/pg era? If not this theory was short lived.

This feels like a job for the Baker-man: documenting every camera spot in WWF/WWE history!

Dec 5, 2021 2:12:09 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 5, 2021 1:13:53 GMT Ed said:

I'll argue outside of Flair's RR win, his WWF title runs felt mid-card-ish.

Goddamn, can make the case the WWF title was midcard for the entire year.

I'll bite.

Royal Rumble 92: Aww hell no! This was a huge deal. Had big time hype. Arguably my most anticipated match of the entire year. Unarguably the most important Rumble up to that point.

WM: Difficult yes. Looks great on paper. Flair! Savage! Wrestlemania! For the WWF Championship! But the specter of Hogan still looms large. Hogan/Flair would have been the much bigger match to 1992 me even without being aware of its full historical significance. The two men seemed on a collision course ever since Flair came in as the Real World Champ. The Macho swerve devalued the bigness of the WM Championship match. Fwiw I wasn't sold on Sid as a credible Hulkster opponent either. Seemed like a subpar Monster of the Month to me. Sorry 🤯. Should have went with Hogan/Flair and Sid/Savage. 

Summerslam: Another big no. Savage/Warrior was automatically a big deal given their already-legendary Retirement Match the previous year. Throw in the storyline with Flair & Perfect stirring the pot and this felt like a huge deal to 1992 me. 

Survivor Series: LOL. The most midcard WWF Championship match on PPV to date. The average SNME featured bigger title matches. In two and a half years we went from Hogan/Warrior title vs. title as the biggest match in the universe to.....this. How the mighty had fallen.
Real main event to 1992 me was the star studded (and Razor) tag match. Even swapping Warrior out for Perfect didn't diminish the match's luster in my eyes due to Perfect turning on his mates and returning to the ring after 15 months. This was, by far, the most hyped match going into the show and I actually thought it was the legit main event for 3 years until I finally watched the tape....or read the results in the PWI Almanac. Forget which.

*2/4 and Flair/Savage didn't fail the test by much. I'll keep going...

Royal Rumble 93: LOL 2.0. Midcard world champ vs. unproven noob who I viewed as nothing more than Flair's heavy. Next!

WM 9: Midcard mania continues with Bret against another noob- this time a 5 month wonder who somehow found himself in the main event of Wrestlemania. I wasn't happy about Hogan leaving as champ because I was a Hogan hater, but at least WWF felt big time again. 

KOTR: Hard no. Hogan=automatic bigness. 

-Aside from Bret/Diesel at KOTR 94, all WWF Championship matches on PPV for the next year and a half felt big time. Then came the Diesel debacle. But that's a story for another day...  

Dec 6, 2021 0:54:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 5, 2021 23:28:13 GMT @ness said:

The cameraman should act as the start of an ERA.

Cameraman fireball (or whatever the finish was) for Yokozuna over Hogan brought on the new generation. Sid with the camera may have ushered in the tude before Vince did the promo. Obvious huge chunks of 96 go unofficial. Did we ever get a camera spot for ruthless aggression/pg era? If not this theory was short lived.

This feels like a job for the Baker -man: documenting every camera spot in WWF/WWE history!

Others that spring to mind are Shawn superkicking the camera man in the first HIAC, Deuce failing to catch Taker's dive while masquerading as a cameraman at WM 25, and Edge pretending to be a cameraman so he could interfere in the Taker/Batista HIAC match.

WWF dropped the ball on the Hogan/Yoko aftermath by not retconning Jim Cornette in as the camera man. Would have made all the sense in the world. For years and years I thought they did just that. But I searched a few years ago and it turned out to be something made up either by myself or Matt The IRS Fan. Meh. Jim Cornette will always be the crooked camera man in my head canon.

Dec 1, 2021 23:07:32 GMT Ed said:

I wonder if Vince brought Bob Backland back as a babyface just to turn him heel.

Leaning towards no with an explanation.

Rumor has it Vince wanted Backlund to turn heel and feud with Hogan way back in '84. Backlund declined and subsequently fell off the face of the Earth for 8 years.

So Backlund ultimately turning heel was probably always in the back of Vince's mind. But only the back of his mind. And here's why I think so...

Backlund was back for a full two years before finally turning heel. During that time he had no major feuds and was barely even on tv leading up to his heel turn in the summer of '94. For example Backlund didn't wrestle a single match on Raw between November 93-August 94, and didn't wrestle on Superstars from December 93 until he had the famous match with Bret that kickstarted his heel run in July 94. I think Backlund would have been featured a lot more if Vince always had big plans for his heel run. 

So I'm going with the Mr. Backlund heel run being a happy accident that they just sort of lucked into. 

Dec 6, 2021 2:33:17 GMT Baker said:

Dec 5, 2021 2:12:09 GMT Kilgore said:

Goddamn, can make the case the WWF title was midcard for the entire year.

Summerslam: Another big no. Savage/Warrior was automatically a big deal given their already-legendary Retirement Match the previous year. Throw in the storyline with Flair & Perfect stirring the pot and this felt like a huge deal to 1992 me. 

But it was literally midcard. Kind of feels like Rumble was the only genuine main event moment for the strap in '92. 

Dec 6, 2021 2:59:06 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 6, 2021 2:33:17 GMT Baker said:

Summerslam: Another big no. Savage/Warrior was automatically a big deal given their already-legendary Retirement Match the previous year. Throw in the storyline with Flair & Perfect stirring the pot and this felt like a huge deal to 1992 me. 

But it was literally midcard. Kind of feels like Rumble was the only genuine main event moment for the strap in '92. 

Yeah, for as much hype and build as it got on Superstars, the WWF title match was overshadowed by the Flair/Perfect gaga around it as well as the IC title match and the Hart family drama once London was locked in and they pivoted away from Bret/HBK.

Dec 6, 2021 2:59:06 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 6, 2021 2:33:17 GMT Baker said:

Summerslam: Another big no. Savage/Warrior was automatically a big deal given their already-legendary Retirement Match the previous year. Throw in the storyline with Flair & Perfect stirring the pot and this felt like a huge deal to 1992 me. 

But it was literally midcard. 

Technically, yes. But so were Flair/Steamboat III, Awesome/Tanaka/Taz at Anarchy Rulz 1999, most Hogan house show matches, HHH/Cactus at Royal Rumble 2000, and many other "real main events" if you want to get technical about it. The "real main event" sometimes ends up in the midcard for a variety of reasons- the most common being promoters, especially back in the day, wanting to send the fans home happy with a babyface victory in the main event.

In this case they went with Bulldog winning in front of 80,000 members of his hometown crowd over an inconclusive finish in the WWF Championship match with the heels standing tall. It was the right call! But nobody is going to convince me Bret/Bulldog was a bigger, more hyped match than Savage/Warrior.

🤯 but the Flair/Perfect gaga was a big part of the hype! 
===============

Had written out my own journey with Bret but I'll hold off from sharing because I don't want to influence the Pieman. Will post when (if?) PI gets to the point where he buys into Bret as a top guy.

Let's do this...

-I didn't really start to buy into Bret as a top guy until after he lost the WWF Championship. The KOTR win and Lawler feud gave him a big boost in my eyes. The Lawler feud in particular did wonders since that was the first time he had a heated, drawn out, good guy vs. bad guy feud since becoming a singles competitor. Still wasn't completely sold on Bret, but I did buy into him more now than I did during his first WWF Championship reign.
 
-Co-winning the 94 Rumble when I'd have bet all my life savings on Luger winning was another boost, albeit in a "*sigh* looks like they're STILL trying to make Bret Hart a thing. I don't get it. *shrug*" sort of way. To use an accurate comparison I wouldn't have been able to make at the time, WWF seemed determined to make Bret the Savage to Luger's Hogan.

-Yet I fully bought into Bret as The Guy during his second reign as WWF Champ. Though, again, I'd have put all my money on Luger leaving WM 10 with the belt. It was 7 months in the making! But Bret absolutely felt like the top guy during the Owen & Backlund feuds.

*Just realized Bret was the original Cena in that WWF wore me down over a few years until I grudgingly grew to accept it. History section is gonna love this take   

Weird thing is by Bret's 3rd reign I fully accepted him as a modern day legend and an all time great. I cared more about "good wrestling" by this point so watching Bret have all those great matches on tapes of PPVs I had missed helped. So did reading the magazines which greatly expanded my horizons. WWF Magazine in particular was all in on pushing The Hitman=GOAT narrative at the time. Plus two of my closest associates were major Bret Hart fanboys who were forever pimping their guy... 

*You have to understand so many of my pre-95 wrestling opinions were reliant on my own admittedly idiosyncratic tastes and the opinions of my few wrestling fan friends. I was primarily a fan of colorful, over the top heels who had also been trained on larger than life patriotic no selling muscle men like Hogan & Warrior (and Luger & Ahmed!) being THE guy. Bret didn't fit into either category. He was just...blah. My 93-94 friends were more along the lines of traditional babyface fans than I was, but they were Luger/Taker/Perfect fanboys rather than Bret guys. So I didn't have anybody pimping Bret to me until my Bret-loving cousin discovered (or at least began discussing) wrestling in late 94-early 95, and I befriended another hardcore Bret fan in Rick of Lawlermania co-booking fame in the summer of '95. 

First Bam Bam Bigelow promo. WAAAY less fanfare than Backlund.

Dec 6, 2021 12:46:16 GMT 🤯 said:

First Bam Bam Bigelow promo. WAAAY less fanfare than Backlund.

And first Doink sighting under Tatanka's arm pit as he's going for a Tomahawk chop.