Nov 6, 2022 12:47:29 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 6, 2022 3:28:45 GMT c said:

Musk just cut Starlink from the Ukraine. He wants 3.25 million a month to return service to the country.   There are 25k terminals in the Ukraine, which cost up to $4500 a month to use.

Can Starlink get imminent domained or whatever legal grounds were used in the 1940s for the U.S. gov't to commandeer private industry for their war machine proposes?

That would mean the United States is at war. 

Britain may pay for it. But Musk wants the Ukraine to give Russia the contested lands, so cutting off one of the means of Ukraine intelligence may be him pushing that solution.

Nov 7, 2022 10:59:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Nov 6, 2022 12:47:29 GMT 🤯 said:

Can Starlink get imminent domained or whatever legal grounds were used in the 1940s for the U.S. gov't to commandeer private industry for their war machine proposes?

That would mean the United States is at war. 

Maybe the latter, but imminent domain is unrelated to war. Not being enough of a constitutional scholar, I just don't know if that's limited only to property as in land. Or if property includes anything. And with things in space and space law still being a very unproven area, I don't know who'd have standing if someone just somehow "took" the satellites that powered something like Starlink.

Nov 7, 2022 12:26:20 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 7, 2022 10:59:08 GMT NATH45 said:

That would mean the United States is at war. 

Maybe the latter, but imminent domain is unrelated to war. Not being enough of a constitutional scholar, I just don't know if that's limited only to property as in land. Or if property includes anything. And with things in space and space law still being a very unproven area, I don't know who'd have standing if someone just somehow "took" the satellites that powered something like Starlink.

Under what justification can a government seize an asset like that?

" that's a nice toy.. too bad we're going to take it from you and play with it instead "

At least in war, there's justification. To a degree.

Putin went to test his nuke torpedo recently and it did not fire as expected. His main doomsday weapons appears not to work.

Or was that the diversion until he drops the HAMMER(tm)?!?

That's the thing about Nukes... how do you even test them without ya know?

It is a risk because if you can't produce results it's like when Daddy backhands you... if it's weak you're not gonna respect or fear him. But you don't wanna take the kid's head off either. You need the balance...

I do not believe Putin is part of the no test pacts. I know the US is not.

I'd imagine there's parts of the Russian Taiga forrest with big holes in it.

US Intelligence have said that 2 Russian Missiles have hit Polish territory, and killed two people.

It was most likely accidentally given the proximity to the Ukrainian border.

It will be interesting how NATO responds. But surely this ain't the spark that sets Europe on fire.

" thousands of deaths, destruction, war crimes... na, we'll wait and see what happens. We don't want to start World War 3.

2 Polish deaths! Lets get them boys!! "

Surely that's not the response, and instead it leads to some mediation or de-escalation driven by our collective world leaders.

The G2019 summit started today in Indonesia. It's going to take a lot of convincing that this wasn't Putin testing the waters because he feels left out of the cool kids party.

He attacked a NATO member in such a way that it can easily be written off as an accident if he has to backtrack. So far he hasn't and Russian figureheads are blaming Poland and Ukraine themselves.

The next 24-48 hours is crucial.

By the letter of the treaty, NATO has justification to go in. Opps I killed some of your people does not work for international defense treaties. Poland has the right to call on NATO now they were attacked. So either NATO acts or they reveal that the argument is a selective one where some aggressions will be ignored. Which would be the absolute best outcome for Russia, utterly delegitimizing NATO ability to protect the actual European countries.

Poland activated article 4 and talks will take place tomorrow. Poland is well within their rights now to invoke article 5 given they been warning that this would happen with the attacks on their border.

Nothing will happen, it was an accident. They’ll just step up the number of troops on the border.

If there is no response Russia mine as well nuke the Ukraine, since the message will be clear, there is no action they can take in Europe proper that will lead to a greater war.

Nov 15, 2022 23:57:42 GMT c said:

If there is no response Russia mine as well nuke the Ukraine, since the message will be clear, there is no action they can take in Europe proper that will lead to a greater war.

Except if they do that, there will be a greater war. What you’re saying makes no sense. Russia ‘testing the waters’ makes no sense. Testing the waters for what? A deliberate attack where NATO wouldn’t respond? NATO would respond. What are we talking about?

They'll move more troops to the Ukraine border and a bunch of countries will announce even more sanctions and then the next "accident" will be worse and we'll be right back where we are today.

But what else do you do at this point? A full blown attack on Russia could spell complete disaster for the rest of the world.

There are no opps I shot missiles into your country and killed your people in war. Particularly when Poland warned that Russia has been striking the border for months. If one of the people were killed were an American trainer we would be at war. Because they were poles, people are ok letting them die.

Nov 16, 2022 0:21:25 GMT RT said:

They'll move more troops to the Ukraine border and a bunch of countries will announce even more sanctions and then the next "accident" will be worse and we'll be right back where we are today.

But what else do you do at this point? A full blown attack on Russia could spell complete disaster for the rest of the world.

Exactly.  Russia could nuke the Ukraine and people would be like, no one wants a world war, so as long as they only nuke the Ukraine then it is ok.

And what would is the point of " nuking " Ukraine?

If you drop a nuke on a major city, sure you might force the submission of The Ukrainians, but you then need to consider the vast amount of devastation that will need to cleared, the environmental impact and likely a whole host of problems.. health and social issues, and of course the bombed city's infrastructure is completely busted.. among a million other problems likely to arise in the wake of dropping a nuclear weapon. And a massive refugee crisis to manage to boot.

Remembering, The Russians want Ukraine. And dropping a bomb on Ukraine isn't exactly going to ensure Ukraine maintains any neutral status, in fact it'll likely push Ukraine closer to The West and The West closer to Ukraine. Putin works his way into a shoot here and his belief Ukraine is Western bound is more or less reality after a Nuclear bomb.

And look, if WMD are still a legitimate reason to go to war, it certainly gets the attention of all the combined world powers who now have a reason to gut Russia and hunt and kill Public Enemy Number 1 - Vlad Putin. The man dies in a hole in Serbia if he takes the nuclear option.

Nov 16, 2022 0:24:51 GMT c said:

Nov 16, 2022 0:21:25 GMT RT said:

They'll move more troops to the Ukraine border and a bunch of countries will announce even more sanctions and then the next "accident" will be worse and we'll be right back where we are today.

But what else do you do at this point? A full blown attack on Russia could spell complete disaster for the rest of the world.

Exactly.  Russia could nuke the Ukraine and people would be like, no one wants a world war, so as long as they only nuke the Ukraine then it is ok.

That wouldn't happen but ok.

You're comparing full scale nuclear war against a single missile that we don't know any information about yet. Was it a misfire? Was it deflected by Ukraine defences? Was it intentional? We have no idea. Hanlon's razor and all that.

Nov 15, 2022 23:54:34 GMT Todd said:

it was an accident

An accident that seems to have conveniently severed the power lines that connect Ukraine to the EU and powers a major oil pipeline terminal. An accident with a cruise missile with accuracy of +/-5 meters.

Putting up missile defense on the Polish border will be provocation to Russia as well, so that is not an option either. They will see it as an attack, since it will mean Poland can launch into Russia now.

///

For others Putin is going to nuke sooner or later as right now the Emperor has no clothes. Putin is losing territory, his new superweapon test failed, the world did not buy his elections of Russian controlled Ukraine territories, and the people he is compelling to fight are defecting to the Ukraine. Either Putin regains control, or he will be taken out of power. A nuke is his way to regaining control. Putin would rather see a world war than lose power, as losing power in Russia means he falls out of a window. For him, it is literally a matter of life and death.

Nov 16, 2022 0:47:25 GMT c said:

Putting up missile defense on the Polish border will be provocation to Russia as well, so that is not an option either. They will see it as an attack, since it will mean Poland can launch into Russia now.

///

For others Putin is going to nuke sooner or later as right now the Emperor has no clothes. Putin is losing territory, his new superweapon test failed, the world did not buy his elections of Russian controlled Ukraine territories, and the people he is compelling to fight are defecting to the Ukraine. Either Putin regains control, or he will be taken out of power. A nuke is his way to regaining control. Putin would rather see a world war than lose power, as losing power in Russia means he falls out of a window. For him, it is literally a matter of life and death.

Between fear of a conservative uprising and catching a cold, I guess you can add risk of nuclear holocaust to your reasons to not go outside.

Nov 16, 2022 2:47:25 GMT NATH45 said:

Nov 16, 2022 0:47:25 GMT c said:

Putting up missile defense on the Polish border will be provocation to Russia as well, so that is not an option either. They will see it as an attack, since it will mean Poland can launch into Russia now.

///

For others Putin is going to nuke sooner or later as right now the Emperor has no clothes. Putin is losing territory, his new superweapon test failed, the world did not buy his elections of Russian controlled Ukraine territories, and the people he is compelling to fight are defecting to the Ukraine. Either Putin regains control, or he will be taken out of power. A nuke is his way to regaining control. Putin would rather see a world war than lose power, as losing power in Russia means he falls out of a window. For him, it is literally a matter of life and death.

Between fear of a conservative uprising and catching a cold, I guess you can add risk of nuclear holocaust to your reasons to not go outside.

Walls and roofs protect us from nuclear bombs!? This is so relieving to know!

Nov 16, 2022 3:06:00 GMT 🤯 said:

Nov 16, 2022 2:47:25 GMT NATH45 said:

Between fear of a conservative uprising and catching a cold, I guess you can add risk of nuclear holocaust to your reasons to not go outside.

Walls and roofs protect us from nuclear bombs!? This is so relieving to know!

I assume he already lives in a bomb shelter.

It’s Christmas at ground zero
The button has been pressed
The radio just let us know
That this is not a test

I love that song and it makes the rounds every year in my house. Might be one of my top 3 Weird Al songs.

Nov 16, 2022 0:21:25 GMT RT said:

They'll move more troops to the Ukraine border and a bunch of countries will announce even more sanctions and then the next "accident" will be worse and we'll be right back where we are today.

But what else do you do at this point? A full blown attack on Russia could spell complete disaster for the rest of the world.

^ This is the point.

Plus... Russia is still playing it up for the media at home.
This isn't a war on Ukraine, this is an exercise to liberate Western Ukraine from the grasp of the nazis.
If Putin decides it so, he can level Kiev in a day and he doesn't need nukes to do it... He is actually showing a lot of restraint at the moment.

This is where I find it odd Ukraine doing victory laps, Putin doesnt have just one hand tied behind his back... but two, voluntarily...
Ukraine is currently engaging with Putin's little toe.
Maybe they lack the ground forces to engage and occupy, but they can wipe all the major cities off the map.

It is now being reported that it was Ukraine that fired the missiles, and missed their targets, as they strayed towards Poland.

Cooler heads will prevail I guess.