Otamendi and Lautaro the most relieved motherfuckers in the world right now. They'll not only be let back home, they'll be celebrated.

What a game holy shit.

First the Copa Americana and now the World Cup. If I was Messi I would RETIRE. Nothing left to accomplish.

I can imagine that being a tremendously exciting match for those who enjoy football.

Well done Argentina Messi.

WHat a game. God damn. Back and forth, I feel so bad for Mbappe. He put on the Superman cape and did EVERYTHING, he had to score to even get the side on par. He gave so many chances for his teammates to score.

Messi had a defining game, gutcheck time and he was just in the right spots.

Thank fuck this France haven't been the first back-to-back winners since Brazil in 1962 as they aren't that good.

All the greats don't win the World Cup. Some didn't get the chance because of circumstances (Best, Di Stéfano). Some heartbreakingly lost the final (Puskás, Cruijff, Baresi, Maldini, Baggio, Messi) or didn't quite get there (Yashin, Zico, Platini, Cristiano). Lots of the greats have won it. Pelé. Garrincha. Charlton. Beckenbauer. Müller. Maradona. Matthäus. Romário. Zidane. R9. I am happy to see Messi join that list.

Mbappe with the first hat-trick (two pens) in the final since Hurst in 1966 and scored his pen in the shootout. Not an overall incredible performance from him, but he was great when he had to step up in the big moments and was flying for a bit after the second. Cold-blooded.

I love this game

What an incredible match. Well from second half on. France looked beat in first half. Second half… wow. Congrats to Messi. But Mboppe too.., hat trick in the final. Gonna need a stiff drink after that match.

The Argentinian goalie had to be villain of the tourney, think he might have topped Ronaldo. Some his celebration dancing on the 2 shootouts were glorious. Was doing the Eddie Guerrero shimmy and was jumping and fist pumping 3x to the crowd after the 1st one.

He won it with this though:

FUCK YES!

A huge win for our American brethren of the southern variety. The GOAT finally gets his well deserved cup win. France has nothing to be ashamed of, they were world beaters this entire tournament and just so happened to fall to an equally great side.

I am sad that it's over now. Go Crew and CFC, but I can't watch MLS as the quality is shit. Guess I need to find a Premier league side to pull for now...

Fun statistic

France have appeared in more world cup final appearances since 1998, than not being in them

98 - winners
02 - group stage
06 - runners up
10 - group stage
14 - Quarter Finals
18 - winners
22 - runners up

Some impressive statistic I guess.

Was that the greatest soccer game of all time or what?

It was a very special day for me as I watched it with a lot of family. An unforgettable day.

Dec 19, 2022 22:19:59 GMT KING KID said:

Was that the greatest soccer game of all time or what?

It was a very special day for me as I watched it with a lot of family. An unforgettable day.

An impressive final, that's for sure. Greatest of all time? Hmmm a hmmm for now

Best international final I’ve seen by a long way. An absolute classic.

Dec 13, 2022 23:24:09 GMT Emperor said:

For some reason I keep viewing this thread despite not giving a hoot, but something is nagging at my curiosity.

Nobody talks about Argentina. They say Messi, as if he is the one player in the team. As if he is the team. OK he may be the greatest player ever, however you quantify that, but he still needs 10 other teammates.

The world loves a good story, so I’ll give you the context for why the world latched on to this narrative.

Diego Maradona is second only to God in Argentina. God may actually have to take the #2 spot here. Not just for his incredible natural ability but for his character. He is seen as the man of the people. A charismatic partyer, a bad boy. The England game in 1986 had the handball goal and the unbelievable solo effort on an atrocious pitch. Some in Argentina prefer the first goal, the craftiness to get one over on the English, post-Falklands.

There are always The New/Next {Insert Legendary Player} in Sports. Classic media hype. But due to Maradona being God in Argentina, it started to take on an almost Messianic, Prince Who Was Promised feeling. Every diminutive young player with exciting ability was the next Maradona - Ortega, Gallardo, Aimar, Saviola, D'Alessandro and more. Then after over a decade of false idols, with a name almost too perfect, the Messiah seemed to have appeared.

When a young Messi came off the bench for Argentina at the 2006 World Cup, the director cut to a wildly cheering Maradona in the crowd. Already the pressure was there. This was the new Maradona, who was to lead Argentina to glory again.

In 2008 and 2009, Messi became the best player in the world and despite only turning 23 (Mbappe turned 24 today) during the 2010 World Cup, he was already being compared to the greatest players ever. Win the World Cup and he would be lofted on to the highest perch with Pelé and Maradona. Argentina's manager was Maradona himself. The story was there to be written. But Maradona was not a great manager and Argentina were thrashed by Germany in the quarter finals.

His individual performances for Argentina were very good but not quite as great as for his club side Barcelona, where he was surrounded by elite players in a system that he had grown up in and had been tailored to get the best out of him. Because of this, some in Argentina questioned whether he tried hard enough for Argentina. He had left home to join Barcelona at 13 years old and he could have chosen to play for Spain if he wanted but did not. Yet still many talked about him as if he wasn't truly one of them. As if he didn't care enough about Argentina. That he was too shy. Too much of a choir boy. He wasn't Diego.

His success for Barcelona continued and he headed into the 2014 World Cup, his third overall and his second with him as the main man, ready to be anointed. The talk again was that he needed to win to join the greatest - to be with Diego. No footballer has really had this type of pressure before. You personally must win the World Cup, a team knockout competition where luck plays a factor, or you aren't one of the greatest. He was fantastic in the group stage and good in the knockout stage. Argentina made the final and the stage was set for Messi's coronation. Higuain missed a sitter. Messi himself missed a good chance. Germany won in extra time. Messi won the Golden Ball for player of the tournament (a contentious but not outrageous choice; possibly picked before the final itself, which people assumed was going to be Messi's big moment) but that meant nothing without the World Cup itself.



At this point, it became not even about the World Cup as much as just winning something for Argentina, trophyless since 1993. In 2015, after a treble-winning season with Barcelona, Messi would join Argentina for the Copa América, the South American championship. Argentina made the final and Messi won player of the tournament. But Higuain missed a great chance in the closing seconds of normal time and skied his penalty in the shootout. Argentina lost.

They had a chance to make amends only a year later, as they played the Copa América Centenario (a special edition to commemorate 100 years of CONMEBOL). Argentina made the final again. Faced Chile again. Higuain missed a great chance again. Went to a penalty shootout again. This time, it was Messi himself who skied the penalty. After the match, he emotionally quit the national team and that could have been it.

But there were public appeals. Tens of thousands of supporters going to the Obelisk of Bueno Aires to show support and ask him to reverse his decision. The Mayor of Bueno Aires unveiled a statue. Even the President put out a statement calling Messi “the greatest thing we have in Argentina”. The masses were praying to their idol not to leave them, to prove he really was the chosen one. Messi, perhaps finally feeling accepted as one of their own, reversed his decision.

Heading into the 2018 World Cup, Messi’s third coronation attempt, it was all more hope than expectation. Even then, Argentina still disappointed. The team was not great. Messi was not great. They lost 4-3 to the eventual champions, Mbappe-inspired France, in the last 16 but that scoreline flattered them. More disappointment would follow at the 2019 Copa América where a Neymar-less Brazil dispatched of Argentina in the semi-finals. In addition, Messi’s Barcelona had been horrendously mismanaged, on and off the pitch, while suffering a series of humiliating defeats in club football’s top competition, the Champions League. It felt like Messi’s career was ending with a whimper.

Then came one more chance at redemption, the 2021 Copa América in Brazil. Messi had been Argentina’s captain since 2011, but it had felt an almost ceremonial position. In modern football, the captaincy has become part of the branding of the star and a stroke of their ego. While Messi would drag the team forward with his great play, his personality meant he was never the traditional leader of the team. His teammates before would talk about wanting to win as much for him as for themselves, but that maybe froze them a bit - the pressure on Messi had been transferred to them as well. But this new team had some harder personalities who seemed to relish in that and in doing the dirty work for Messi. Messi himself responded by developing a bit more of an edge. He’d defend his teammates and get vocal with the ref and opposition. He wasn’t Diego, but he was a bit more Diego.

Messi was magnificent, player of the tournament, in the 2021 Copa and led Argentina to the final where they would face Brazil. Argentina had not defeated Brazil in a competitive match since 2005. Argentina had not won a title since 1993. At the Maracanã, Argentina finally tasted championship victory again and a weight seemed to have been lifted. Now there was only one thing left - the World Cup.

Argentina entered the World Cup as second favourites. This was a now 35-year-old Messi’s fourth and final World Cup as Argentina’s main man and last chance to join Maradona. Argentina's opening match became a disaster. Having led 1-0 (with multiple close calls for more) at half time, they lost 2-1 to unfancied Saudi Arabia and people began to worry. Lose to Mexico in their next match and that would be it for Messi's international career, ultimately with a whimper. The world at large did not want that to be the end of the story. But this is not some legend or fairy tale. This is the real world and stories don't always have a happy ending.

In a tense match with Mexico, Messi scored a great opener and things built from there. Messi's form was great. The team was adapting and fine-tuning as the tournament went along. The draw was very favourable to them and people started to really believe in the dream story. Each match furthered the idea that it seemed destined. Old man Messi wasn't the player he had been, but could turn it on when needed and could rely on his team to let him do that. In the ill-tempered quarter-final, he was remonstrating with the referee, he was goading the opposition bench. This was Diego Messi and he was driving his team as its true leader towards ultimate glory.

In the final, you saw what happened. The Qataris could not have written a better final for their PSG stars, Messi and Mbappe, if they tried. The most dramatic of conclusions to a 15+-year story of prophecy and destiny. Like it was written.



tl;dr Maradona is the Father, Messi is the Son, the Son needed to win the World Cup to join his Father in Heaven. I don't know who the Holy Spirit is.

Dec 19, 2022 22:19:59 GMT KING KID said:

Was that the greatest soccer game of all time or what?

It was a very special day for me as I watched it with a lot of family. An unforgettable day.

For 75 mins, it was pretty lifeless. France did not turn up. It felt a little underwhelming for Messi and Argentina's big moment.

Then Otamendi did what Otamendi does. A lifeline for France. Then, as is the style of the time (see Real Madrid's run to this year's Champions League Final against PSG, Chelsea and City), teams no longer respond to one goal being pulled back by focusing the mind and ensuring no mistakes are made and no easy chances are given away but instead they shit themselves, completely freeze and concede again within 1-2 mins.

It then turned into a sports film.

- Messi with the effort at the death of normal time to win it, saved by Lloris.
- In extra time, Lautaro being the new Higuain, missing chances.
- Messi putting Argentina back ahead (Lautaro did not score with his effort, did not cut back to Messi for a tap-in, got lucky it felt to him really). The prophecy was going to come true.
- Until it wasn't. Argentina giving away another penalty late on and Mbappe showing great nerves to bury it.
- Then in the last seconds of ET, Martinez makes an incredible save from Kolo Muani and Argentina break up the other end immediately and Lautaro has the chance to win it. The most incredible finish to the match.

In the film version, Lautaro would be the supporting character, in his room watching clips of Higuain's misses and worrying that he is going to be the man to cost Messi the World Cup but then would bury the header at the end to finish off his arc.

But he is the new Higuain, so he absolutely bottled his header and it went to pens and let Captain Shithousery Martinez do what he does best.

Rather boring really for 75 mins, then breathless for the hour plus of the end of normal time, extra time and pens. The greatest quality is not required for the greatest matches. The stories and drama of this final in the end ultimately put it up as a strong contender for the greatest international match I have ever seen, if not football in general.

Emi Martinez (penalty heroics in both the Copa and World Cup, THAT save in the last seconds of ET in the final) and Di Maria (big game player for Argentina, winning goal in final of Copa, best player while on the pitch in World Cup final) both definitely join Messi in the Argentina National Team All-Time XI now.

I don’t think anything will ever beat that game and honestly nobody ever talks about the first 75% of the big games anyways. Even in football, basketball. It’s the clutch end of game plays that matter. Messi and Mbappe being the superstars they are put on the show and that’s what made it so epic.

I saw on YouTube several times this other great finale game where one team was up for a PK, missed it and the other team ran it back quick and this big dude just drilled it in and took his shirt off and jumped into the fans. I think announcers make it even more special and he was saying something along the lines of this is real life and what an ending. I just remember hearing “HULK! AGUERO!” I don’t know the importance of that game but I just remember chaos.

Dec 20, 2022 21:27:12 GMT KING KID said:

I saw on YouTube several times this other great finale game where one team was up for a PK, missed it and the other team ran it back quick and this big dude just drilled it in and took his shirt off and jumped into the fans. I think announcers make it even more special and he was saying something along the lines of this is real life and what an ending.

I love that this is such a horrible Americanised explanation (no offence) of this yet I still know exactly what game you are talking about. :lol:

"Forrestieri....here's Hogg...DEENEEEEYYYYYYY!" A classic.

Dec 20, 2022 21:34:31 GMT @admin said:

Dec 20, 2022 21:27:12 GMT KING KID said:

I saw on YouTube several times this other great finale game where one team was up for a PK, missed it and the other team ran it back quick and this big dude just drilled it in and took his shirt off and jumped into the fans. I think announcers make it even more special and he was saying something along the lines of this is real life and what an ending.

I love that this is such a horrible Americanised explanation (no offence) of this yet I still know exactly what game you are talking about. :lol:

"Forrestieri....here's Hogg...DEENEEEEYYYYYYY!" A classic.

Lmao. I thought the exact same thing. As soon as I read it I had Deeney ripping his shirt off in my head. Never thought I’d see Kid referencing a second tier English football game yet here we are. 😂

Dec 20, 2022 21:34:31 GMT @admin said:

Dec 20, 2022 21:27:12 GMT KING KID said:

I saw on YouTube several times this other great finale game where one team was up for a PK, missed it and the other team ran it back quick and this big dude just drilled it in and took his shirt off and jumped into the fans. I think announcers make it even more special and he was saying something along the lines of this is real life and what an ending.

I love that this is such a horrible Americanised explanation (no offence) of this yet I still know exactly what game you are talking about.

"Forrestieri....here's Hogg...DEENEEEEYYYYYYY!" A classic.

Yes that’s the one. 😂 

That World Cup could not have gone much worse for the other man (other being Maradona) who will always be linked to Messi - Cristiano Ronaldo.

The incredible drive and obsessive attitude that made him into the player he became does mean that it is no surprise that he is not taking his late career regression well. No longer being a guaranteed starter for Man Utd, he does the Piers Morgan interview where he essentially forced Man Utd to fire him. Must have thought that he could put himself in the shop window at the World Cup beyond just a move to Saudi Arabia.

- Ronaldo scores and Portugal win their opening match after Messi's Argentina had lost theirs. Bit of false hope makes the fall tougher.
- In the second match, desperate to equal Eusébio's World Cup scoring record for Portugal, he tries to steal Bruno's goal after feeling the wind of the ball pass by his hair.
- Despite Portugal being through, very likely group winners and with the rest of Portugal's big attackers rested (Bruno, Félix, Bernardo), the oldest one Ronaldo played in the almost-dead match. This had a feeling of being forced by Ronaldo and his desire for goals and personal glory. Not only did he not score (still one behind Eusébio), but the fall-out from his substitution would lead to...
- Being dropped for the Round of 16 match with Switzerland. What happened at Man Utd had now happened with Portugal. His replacement Ramos scores a hat trick, Portugal play fantastically and look freer without their star man. Ronaldo comes off the bench and doesn't score (still behind Eusébio and still without a World Cup KO rounds goal).
- Not in the starting XI again for QF against Morocco and Portugal are behind at HT. He gets brought on for most of the second half. Here is his chance to be the hero and saviour. But he doesn't score and Portugal are out of the World Cup. He did not equal Eusébio. He did not get his KO rounds goal. He did not stay on the pitch to console his younger teammates. He walked straight off himself in tears.

A tournament that was far from the one of his dreams. Then you add in that Messi won the World Cup in the most dramatic final ever, won the Golden Ball for best player in the tournament, scored and starred in each of the KO round matches, all while his teammates seemed determined to win it for him, and while the world seemed to will for it to happen, and he has since been praised by all around in media as the greatest and that tournament was a full-blown worst-case nightmare for Cristiano.

Just saw Pele died. Sad day for the sport.

So Ronaldo going back on his words of saying he wants to go out at a top club and wouldn’t play in the “US, Dubai or Qatar” is bad for his legacy right?

Dec 30, 2022 0:32:29 GMT All34LOL said:

Just saw Pele died. Sad day for the sport.

RIP the king of football

Don’t mess with the Reyna’s…

So Mbappe went to watch the NBA to avoid Messi’s return?

Jan 5, 2023 17:57:46 GMT thechoke said:

Don’t mess with the Reyna’s…

Claudio Reyna is a legend..


(Despite only being at Sunderland for a cup of tea)