There is also a case that when someone is unlikable or someone has a predefined prejudice based on gender or race, that all someone needs is the reason to put against what they already feel.
Bill Clinton won an election after being painted as a philandering liar.

People didn't like Hillary, how many people wanted her as President? How many were passionate supporters of her brand?
She always had a high disapproval rating.
Ironically the greatest thing against a woman president is that women generally are more critical of women than men are... Because of the Patriarchy I am sure.....

No she hasn’t. It’s ebbed and flowed over the years: www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clintons-approval-rating-secretary-state-w/

Not many Presidential candidates in recent memory have been in the spotlight as long and consistently as Hillary was in modern times.

She wasn’t my idea choice for a Democratic candidate, but she was clearly a competent, smart, deserving candidate with a background and experience worthy of the seat.

There’s no doubt sexism played a huge role (and I’m sure there’s something behind the hatred of the black president being followed by the first female president). It’s the old “a bossy man is a a leader and a boss woman is a bitch” mentality. She behaved and acted like a man and was considered a bad person for it. It shows how far behind our viewpoints on woman still are.

I think Hillary’s biggest problem was she is a centrist when people either seem to be SJW snowflakes or right wing nutjobs. She said it herself that she thinks being a capitalist hurt her campaign.

Jul 18, 2018 1:41:30 GMT iNCY said:

So it is a question of who released the information or what the information was?

This is a very strange topic, because if an American hacked Hillary's private server then gave the information to the NY Times, they would be hailed as hero's at best and a misguided patriot like Bradley Manning at the worst.
If you chart Hillary's approval rating I think you will find that the releases did very little other than re-enforce the views people already had.

You know way more about politics than I do, but I don't believe at the end of the day the election was a close thing.
It's more a reflection on ineffective polling than the fact everyone changed their mind the morning of the election.

Pretty sure the American “hero” would also be under indictment, but that’s another time.

Polls were as accurate as they ever are historically, off about 2 percent nationally. If you look at the polling though it took a nose dive immediately following the FBI reopening an investigation for no reason to a point where the election was a contest again.

As for whether it was close or not, approximately 150,000 votes in Florida and Wisconsin decided the election in a country where more than 120 million ballots were cast. It was remarkably close, in a way where a person could win by nearly 3 million votes and still lose in the electoral college.

Hillary is terribly disliked and I wouldn’t have thought she could ever be president if she weren’t facing the most disliked presidential candidate of my lifetime. Unfortunately the people that disliked both voted for Trump. I think it’s foolhardy to say we know why they did or didn’t and that Russian hacks weren’t part of that decision.

Some quick thoughts that might surprise people.

Trump is pissing me off this week. I’ll start with the Putin Debacle. Sure, I read somewhere that people couldn’t possibly expect Trump to call out Putin as a liar on national television BUT the dude looked like a little bitch to Putin. Then his inexcusable excuse as to using the wrong word when defending Russia was such BS that I can’t even defend it if I tried.

Then he along with Tucker Carlson attack Montenegro. As you may know, that’s where my parents are from. To blame them for “aggressive behavior” and then mock them for their population doesn’t even make sense. It’s a known thing in the locker room talk of that country that Russia is trying to take over Montenegro so fuck that unnecessary bullshit attack.

I’m a new father who is sleep deprived and I’m really not liking Trump acting like Putin’s Bitch Boy. Step it the fuck up.

Jul 18, 2018 21:21:32 GMT KING KID said:

Then he along with Tucker Carlson attack Montenegro. As you may know, that’s where my parents are from.

Maybe this is why women, gays, blacks, Mexicans, etc don’t like Trump ... because he irrationally attacks them. 😑

Jul 18, 2018 11:20:46 GMT KJ said:

No she hasn’t. It’s ebbed and flowed over the years: www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clintons-approval-rating-secretary-state-w/

Not many Presidential candidates in recent memory have been in the spotlight as long and consistently as Hillary was in modern times.

She wasn’t my idea choice for a Democratic candidate, but she was clearly a competent, smart, deserving candidate with a background and experience worthy of the seat.

There’s no doubt sexism played a huge role (and I’m sure there’s something behind the hatred of the black president being followed by the first female president). It’s the old “a bossy man is a a leader and a boss woman is a bitch” mentality. She behaved and acted like a man and was considered a bad person for it. It shows how far behind our viewpoints on woman still are.

Hillary was the drizzling shits as a candidate.     The fact she lost to DONALD TRUMP should have made that perfectly obvious for anyone to see. It's incredible that people are still trying to defend her.    She honestly needs to shut up and retire quietly, her political career is toast.            

Jul 19, 2018 2:00:35 GMT thereallt said:

Jul 18, 2018 11:20:46 GMT KJ said:

No she hasn’t. It’s ebbed and flowed over the years: www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clintons-approval-rating-secretary-state-w/

Not many Presidential candidates in recent memory have been in the spotlight as long and consistently as Hillary was in modern times.

She wasn’t my idea choice for a Democratic candidate, but she was clearly a competent, smart, deserving candidate with a background and experience worthy of the seat.

There’s no doubt sexism played a huge role (and I’m sure there’s something behind the hatred of the black president being followed by the first female president). It’s the old “a bossy man is a a leader and a boss woman is a bitch” mentality. She behaved and acted like a man and was considered a bad person for it. It shows how far behind our viewpoints on woman still are.

Hillary was the drizzling shits as a candidate.     The fact she lost to DONALD TRUMP should have made that perfectly obvious for anyone to see. It's incredible that people are still trying to defend her.    She honestly needs to shut up and retire quietly, her political career is toast.            

I agree with the last sentence: She needs to go away. She's toxic to the Democratic party at this point for a myriad of reasons.

But to your first point: No one has ever been able to truly explain to my satisfaction WHY she was a "drizzling shits" candidate. I understand that's the perception, but I still don't understand the hostility towards her. Like a said, she's a competent, smart, experienced, deserving Presidential Candidate. There's nothing I can point towards that feels detrimental (beyond any other Presidential candidate) other than her gender.

Jul 19, 2018 14:00:33 GMT KJ said:

Jul 19, 2018 2:00:35 GMT thereallt said:

Hillary was the drizzling shits as a candidate.     The fact she lost to DONALD TRUMP should have made that perfectly obvious for anyone to see. It's incredible that people are still trying to defend her.    She honestly needs to shut up and retire quietly, her political career is toast.            

I agree with the last sentence: She needs to go away. She's toxic to the Democratic party at this point for a myriad of reasons.

But to your first point: No one has ever been able to truly explain to my satisfaction WHY she was a "drizzling shits" candidate. I understand that's the perception, but I still don't understand the hostility towards her. Like a said, she's a competent, smart, experienced, deserving Presidential Candidate. There's nothing I can point towards that feels detrimental (beyond any other Presidential candidate) other than her gender.

I think the timing was her downfall and her centrist policies. She wasn’t left enough for the Bernie voters (She said herself she thinks being a capitalist hurt her campaign. She just not an exciting candidate, and a lot felt it would just be Bill’s 3rd term as unfair as that may be.

I know of hardcore Bernie supporters and hardcore Trump supporters, I don’t know any hardcore or Hillary supporters in general.

Jul 19, 2018 17:05:57 GMT System said:

Jul 19, 2018 14:00:33 GMT KJ said:

I agree with the last sentence: She needs to go away. She's toxic to the Democratic party at this point for a myriad of reasons.

But to your first point: No one has ever been able to truly explain to my satisfaction WHY she was a "drizzling shits" candidate. I understand that's the perception, but I still don't understand the hostility towards her. Like a said, she's a competent, smart, experienced, deserving Presidential Candidate. There's nothing I can point towards that feels detrimental (beyond any other Presidential candidate) other than her gender.

I think the timing was her downfall and her centrist policies. She wasn’t left enough for the Bernie voters (She said herself she thinks being a capitalist hurt her campaign. She just not an exciting candidate, and a lot felt it would just be Bill’s 3rd term as unfair as that may be.

I know of hardcore Bernie supporters and hardcore Trump supporters, I don’t know any hardcore or Hillary supporters in general.

There were millions of hardcore female Hillary voters. Millions and millions.

They just aren’t as insane as Bernie Bros.

I should note Bernie was my choice.

Jul 19, 2018 17:46:49 GMT KJ said:

Jul 19, 2018 17:05:57 GMT System said:

I think the timing was her downfall and her centrist policies. She wasn’t left enough for the Bernie voters (She said herself she thinks being a capitalist hurt her campaign. She just not an exciting candidate, and a lot felt it would just be Bill’s 3rd term as unfair as that may be.

I know of hardcore Bernie supporters and hardcore Trump supporters, I don’t know any hardcore or Hillary supporters in general.

There were millions of hardcore female Hillary voters. Millions and millions.

They just aren’t as insane as Bernie Bros.

Millions and millions, so like two of the millions in total?
Hillary go the nomination because she gamed the DNC system the entire time Obama was in office.
She was a product of the machine, not the people.
The whole point of a primary is to find the candidate with the widest appeal.
Hillary managed to get the nomination while never being that person.

Even the fact the Biden didn't run, do you think that was an accident?
He would have SLAUGHTERED Trump in the election.
Ironically as popular as Bernie was I think he would have lost to Trump for being too socialist, it would have scared people.

I feel very confident Biden not running was directly because of the death of his son.

And I think Biden and Bernie would’ve beaten Trump. Shit, if Comey hadn’t done what he’d done, I truly think Hillary would’ve won.

I think it’s pretty obvious why Hilary lost. Donald Trump was what America needed after the debacle that was Obama’s presidency. From stirring up race wars that go on to this day to Obamacare to being the reason this country got so pussified and PC.

Donald Trump was the only candidate that could beat Hilary and that was because he was everything that Hilary, Bernie and Obama weren’t. A real motherfucker. He called out bullshit and called out the media and just did everything that the “silent” Americans have been saying behind closed doors out of fear of having nobody to back them.

Minus Putin and attacking Montenegro, Trump has been the best President this country has seen in my lifetime. That’s 23 decades of invisible presidents doing absolutely nothing behind closed doors. I actually respected Bill Clinton for catching a BJ in the office. The fact that was the coolest and best thing a president did in 30 years says something. Trump got me more money on my pay checks and has pissed off the liberals to the extreme that they have deserved to be pissed off. The amount of lives these low life, unemployed protestors ruined with their bullshit needed to get shut down and it finally did.

If you didn’t name your kid “Donald Sputnik” it was a huge miss.

See, I was actually beginning to think that between having a child and seeing through Trump's bullshit of attacking Montenegro, Kid might be actually developing the slightest sliver of human decency. More fool me, it seems.

Jul 20, 2018 3:01:06 GMT KITN said:

See, I was actually beginning to think that between having a child and seeing through Trump's bullshit of attacking Montenegro, Kid might be actually developing the slightest sliver of human decency. More fool me, it seems.

To be fair, he publicly proclaimed he’d disown his son if he’s gay.

What the actual fuck.

Jul 20, 2018 3:01:06 GMT KITN said:

See, I was actually beginning to think that between having a child and seeing through Trump's bullshit of attacking Montenegro, Kid might be actually developing the slightest sliver of human decency. More fool me, it seems.

The fact you're making personal attacks based on political differences says a lot more about you than him.

Jul 20, 2018 3:15:10 GMT thereallt said:

Jul 20, 2018 3:01:06 GMT KITN said:

See, I was actually beginning to think that between having a child and seeing through Trump's bullshit of attacking Montenegro, Kid might be actually developing the slightest sliver of human decency. More fool me, it seems.

The fact you're making personal attacks based on political differences says a lot more about you than him.

Quite ironically many on the left decry Trump for attacking the man rather than.the issue. 

You can be decent and support Trump and you can hate him and be equally indecent. 
Character is a reflection of ethics not of politics. 

People do realize that Hillary took the popular vote right? Trump did not even get the majority of the vote. He got the votes in segmented places, but when votes were counted, majority of America did not want him.

Trump will take 2020 and the Republicans 2018, but not through popular vote. Trump's two supreme court picks, then the the next two or three he gets to place in the next six years will vote down all gerrymandering bills, and republicans can keep power through some votes mattering more than others.

Meanwhile democrats have utter shit leadership. Most of them want Hillary completely out of the picture, despite her being the top fundraiser right now. DNC is feuding with Bernie again and superdelegates once again are prepared to prevent a socialist from being the main ballot person. Also it appears that despite having nothing to offer the working class, democrats will still be targeting the coasting liberals and going hard on identity politics. I am not sure at all how though they expect to get people from middle america to support them, when they basically are saying hey you racist, sexist piece of shit, vote for us or your an awful person who is ruining the country. There are no shades of gray, and that is what voters actually want. They do not want Trump, but they have no other option when it appears democrats are against them and middle America completely.

I really wonder how the hell can democrats come back from this? We have no one who really can beat Trump. We have great candidates, but it seems no one wants to lead the damn party. Even Obama seems to support not declaring candicany until after midterms, it is crazy. Trump has a two year head start and been tearing down the top contenders without counter to the point where should Warren, Biden or Bernie declare they are running, they basically already lost. Meanwhile the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society are working on their long term plans to reshape America which have been playing out like clockwork while democrats dismiss the GOP as dump hicks not realizing that we are about to enter a 30 year block of a GOP controlled supreme court that could go 8-1.

Related to your nightmare scenario: www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/12/in-about-20-years-half-the-population-will-live-in-eight-states/?utm_term=.387d992bf17c

Guess it's time to start looking at Canadian real estate...

It drives me nuts watching middle America ruin it for everyone by voting against their best interests.

The Dems only chance in 2020 is if Trump beats himself. He’s certainly trying.

I think Elizabeth Warren is the best Dem candidate right now, but I can almost guarantee you that the Dems will refuse to let a woman run against Trump twice in a row, which fucking sucks, but is the reality of American politics.

I think Biden runs.

Jul 20, 2018 13:31:16 GMT RT said:

It drives me nuts watching middle America ruin it for everyone by voting against their best interests.

The Dems only chance in 2020 is if Trump beats himself. He’s certainly trying.

I think Elizabeth Warren is the best Dem candidate right now, but I can almost guarantee you that the Dems will refuse to let a woman run against Trump twice in a row, which fucking sucks, but is the reality of American politics.

I think Biden runs.

It’s Biden or Bernie. Warren is the 2024 candidate if they lose (and possibly Veep candidate).

Jul 20, 2018 13:29:05 GMT Mistress said:

Guess it's time to start looking at Canadian real estate...

They have recreation legal or soon don't they?

Jul 20, 2018 1:13:25 GMT iNCY said:

Jul 19, 2018 17:46:49 GMT KJ said:

There were millions of hardcore female Hillary voters. Millions and millions.

They just aren’t as insane as Bernie Bros.

Millions and millions, so like two of the millions in total?
Hillary go the nomination because she gamed the DNC system the entire time Obama was in office.
She was a product of the machine, not the people.
The whole point of a primary is to find the candidate with the widest appeal.
Hillary managed to get the nomination while never being that person.

Even the fact the Biden didn't run, do you think that was an accident?
He would have SLAUGHTERED Trump in the election.
Ironically as popular as Bernie was I think he would have lost to Trump for being too socialist, it would have scared people.

...I mean she also dominated Bernie in the primaries.

And if it really comes down to Bernie, Biden or Warren I don’t feel great about the Democrats chances. Biden has already lost how many presidential primaries? Bernie is moderately popular in Democratic circles but I don’t see the translation in a national election... and Warren is just eh to me and already comes with four years of Trump attacking her.

There’ll be about 16 other candidates this time around. I don’t see Bernie getting through it since he will no longer be the only viable alternative to Hillary, Biden and Warren are real possibilities I guess, and I’m optimistic I’ll be inspired by any of the other alternatives.

Also as a middle American, I’ve grown pretty tired of the “Middle America won’t respond to Democrats for these reasons” stuff. When you nominate a person that is disliked by more people than she is liked by, you can’t just count on an election victory. We certainly have racist people here (as they do everywhere else), but “identity politics” isn’t winning or losing anyone in Iowa. Nominate someone that people like, it’ll go better.

(That Dems have won the popular vote in four of the five elections I’ve voted in and only won two makes me a little despondent about our future with stratification continuing though)

Jul 20, 2018 14:56:22 GMT @ness said:

Jul 20, 2018 13:29:05 GMT Mistress said:

Guess it's time to start looking at Canadian real estate...

They have recreation legal or soon don't they?

Oct 17th!

Here in BC dispensaries have already started selling it to anyone. No paperwork required, just walk in, show your ID, sign a waiver saying if you get fined or arrested for having pot on you you won’t hold them accountable, then you’re set.

We definitely have great candidates, but this next election will be a media star versus a person who can actually govern and people prefer media stars. Policy and politics do not matter as much as likability and media narrative, and no democrat can match the story that Trump promoted about him saving America. People like Kamala Harris who can get things done and are a good fit for the issues in society right now will lose out to people who make sensational claims and take advantage of the pomp and circumstance. This is why the party wants Biden, Bernie or Warren. They are vocal and look good on TV. But Harris is a known fundraiser, advertises smart and appeals to conservatives. But it looks like the party will go Biden and he will lose. There is a reason Trump wants Biden is it is because against Biden they have a strong plan to turn the black and hispanic communities against him by flooding the market with ads about the effects of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that Biden authored. Following this the school to prison pipeline was created and record numbers of black and hispanics were locked up via three strikes.

Losing the youth vote is going to wreck the democrats. Alienating white males is political suicide in this era as those who feel the party turned on them, will start to look into Trump. Once they do, it is easy for the bubble to close around them and lock them into an echo chamber. Running someone like Biden who wrote gun control laws, will just make things worse as the gun kids are pushed hard right if they want to use their toys. At a time when the minority vote may sit this next election out, I see no way forward without a massive party reform where democrats start change their priorities completely and take back the center even if means alienating the actual left. Sadly the person to do this was Clinton and we crucified her for trying it.

Jul 20, 2018 8:37:59 GMT c said:

People do realize that Hillary took the popular vote right? Trump did not even get the majority of the vote. He got the votes in segmented places, but when votes were counted, majority of America did not want him.

Trump will take 2020 and the Republicans 2018, but not through popular vote. Trump's two supreme court picks, then the the next two or three he gets to place in the next six years will vote down all gerrymandering bills, and republicans can keep power through some votes mattering more than others.

Meanwhile democrats have utter shit leadership. Most of them want Hillary completely out of the picture, despite her being the top fundraiser right now. DNC is feuding with Bernie again and superdelegates once again are prepared to prevent a socialist from being the main ballot person. Also it appears that despite having nothing to offer the working class, democrats will still be targeting the coasting liberals and going hard on identity politics. I am not sure at all how though they expect to get people from middle america to support them, when they basically are saying hey you racist, sexist piece of shit, vote for us or your an awful person who is ruining the country. There are no shades of gray, and that is what voters actually want. They do not want Trump, but they have no other option when it appears democrats are against them and middle America completely.

I really wonder how the hell can democrats come back from this? We have no one who really can beat Trump. We have great candidates, but it seems no one wants to lead the damn party. Even Obama seems to support not declaring candicany until after midterms, it is crazy. Trump has a two year head start and been tearing down the top contenders without counter to the point where should Warren, Biden or Bernie declare they are running, they basically already lost. Meanwhile the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society are working on their long term plans to reshape America which have been playing out like clockwork while democrats dismiss the GOP as dump hicks not realizing that we are about to enter a 30 year block of a GOP controlled supreme court that could go 8-1.

I'll cover these one at a time

A.  Hillary only won the popular vote through MASSIVE majorities in NYC and Los Angeles.   You look at the rest of the country on the electoral map and it's a sea of red.  Trump may have the won the rest of the country through narrower margins but by state and by county the overwhelming majority of the country voted for Trump. 


B. The Democrats are the ones who INVENTED gerrymandering and up until 50 years ago were by far it's biggest practitioners     Hell take one look at Maryland and you'll they STILL practice it today whenever possible.  Live by the sword, die by the sword.


C. I couldn't agree more.  Much as I dislike Obama I can respect the qualities he brought to the Democratic Party.  They have had no clear leadership whatsoever since he's been gone.    However I must also say Obama didn't foster or promote any other politicians that could have taken his place at the head of the party once he was gone.   He probably was looking to Biden to do that, but the death of Biden's son kind of killed that.

D. 100% agreed.   Losing the Rust Belt was tragic for the Democratic Party and they lost it very much because of this new focus on identity politics.   The working class really cares about 3 things....the economy, their health care, and public safety.    Everything else is purely secondary.