Well got ourselves another war a brewing as Hamas attacks Israel again. Hundreds dead and thousands wounded already.

Israel under right wing control plans to use this as justification to eradicate Hamas finally. They already moved back into the West Bank and are slaughtering people. Cut power too, so the wounded cannot be readily treated.  They are also doing precision missile strikes all through the region.

Pretty sure the world will sit back and watch this genocide occur as Israel finally purges their country of Palestinians.  

Oct 7, 2023 19:50:36 GMT c said:

Well got ourselves another war a brewing as Hamas attacks Israel again. Hundreds dead and thousands wounded already.

Israel under right wing control plans to use this as justification to eradicate Hamas finally. They already moved back into the West Bank and are slaughtering people. Cut power too, so the wounded cannot be readily treated.  They are also doing precision missile strikes all through the region.

Pretty sure the world will sit back and watch this genocide occur as Israel finally purges their country of Palestinians.  

The world is such a mess, I don't understand the need to find a good side and a bad side in every conflict.
I'm not speaking about Putin or Hamas, they can go to hell... But it's the idea of a good side that has lead the world into so many pointless conflicts.
Arming the Afghans against the russians
Arming Iraq against Iran
Arming Aasad
Supporting Mugabie

We never learn our lessons.
Kill the leaders, not the people

Now I'm reading rumblings of the US going in to support Israel. I know I'm meant to be this forums big ugly conservative, but here's my take

1. The crazies in the middle East are looking for a holy war, don't give it to them. Iran is itching for an excuse, don't give it to them.

2. Israel's response to Palestine has been to evacuate disputed territories so they can eliminate Hamas. Most of these territories are universally recognised as Palestinian land, if they leave they will never get to come back.

3. Israel's current government is about 10x what every liberal feared Trump to be. These people would think nothing of using these attacks to justify genocide.

The Hamas attack warrants a swift and effective response. What the media doesn't show you is that this normally involves Israeli tanks rolling in and demolishing the settlements of impoverished innocents. Every time you do this you make mode martyrs for the cause... This only ends in war or Genocide.

Also, who's arming Hamas, where did the weapons come from? Another unintended consequence of pouring weapons indiscriminately into Ukraine is that they're flowing out through Europe into the hands of terrorists.

Again I abhor Hamas with every fibre of my being before anyone tries to say otherwise.

US will 100% support Israel. They are considered one of our most important allies. They could massacre all the Palestinians in their "borders" and we will say they are killing terrorists and anyone who disputes this will face calls to censor for antisemitism. And I do think they will use this as justification to annex the west bank as they planned to do under Trump.

Senate and House talking about confirmation of support to Israel and perhaps material support.

Unfortunately, no bills can pass the House as they have no speaker to bring them forth. Which is likely why Hamas choose to attack this weekend.  They know US is political chaos so for a few weeks at least we are out of this.

Given the nature of the attack on someone who have defense pacts with, we the US may ultimately get involved.  Iron Dome held but you cannot expect to rain missiles like that and get away with it.

Sole benefit of US intervention there would be we are getting very good at reducing collateral damage and likely can target Hamas shit without too much extra shit being leveled.  Israel if they do it will not be so precise.  And after that strike, Hamas will be driven from the region one way or another.

I don't care for the politics here as neither side is clean.

What always breaks my heart is reading stories about the innocent that are being hurt in conflicts like this. Sure, war is hell, but reports of people being kidnapped, especially women is terrible. I'd hate to think about the evil that is happening behind closed doors right now - that isn't war, that is opportunistic savagery by the worst pieces of shit.

Oct 8, 2023 2:19:59 GMT c said:

Senate and House talking about confirmation of support to Israel and perhaps material support.

Unfortunately, no bills can pass the House as they have no speaker to bring them forth. Which is likely why Hamas choose to attack this weekend.  They know US is political chaos so for a few weeks at least we are out of this.

Given the nature of the attack on someone who have defense pacts with, we the US may ultimately get involved.  Iron Dome held but you cannot expect to rain missiles like that and get away with it.

Sole benefit of US intervention there would be we are getting very good at reducing collateral damage and likely can target Hamas shit without too much extra shit being leveled.  Israel if they do it will not be so precise.  And after that strike, Hamas will be driven from the region one way or another.

This is a good thing, the US putting troops into a Palestine would be crossing such a red line with the Islamic countries.

Oct 8, 2023 4:29:11 GMT NATH45 said:

I don't care for the politics here as neither side is clean.

What always breaks my heart is reading stories about the innocent that are being hurt in conflicts like this. Sure, war is hell, but reports of people being kidnapped, especially women is terrible. I'd hate to think about the evil that is happening behind closed doors right now - that isn't war, that is opportunistic savagery by the worst pieces of shit.

I'm not great fan of Zionists, but Has have made such a shocking error of judgement in this horrific act of terrorism, they have left no space for anyone to give the one shred of support or sympathy. Behave like a rabid dog and you will get out down and nobody would shed a tear.

They have been so reprehensible that they make it hard for anyone to even come out and plead for Israel to show restraint.

I don't understand how this large scale incursion happened in one of the most secure areas in the world.

Yeah, no good guys here at all. Can't say that in the US though or people freak the fuck out. Squad here spoke out against Israeli abuses and there were motion to kick them out of congress.

Are there any more red lines for the US to cross with Islamic countries? We declared ourselves ruler of them ages ago and been doing strikes into their countries as we see fit.

Feel like we will know for sure whether or not Iran and such can make a nuke, as the likely annexation of the West Bank would be where to use one.

The incursion right now is not so much an incursion, but just raining rockets and missiles and shit into Israel and conflict on the borders.

Should be noted, misinformation is skyhigh on Twitter, and Musk is doing nothing to stop it, so check sources on information. All sorts of BS being reported by lazy reporters using Twitter as a source. Tons of Syria videos being shared claiming they were from Israel yesterday.

Biden deploying military support to Israel. Unsure of the exact nature of the support. Also announced today by the Sec of Def:

"I have directed the movement of the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to the Eastern Mediterranean. This includes the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78), the Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), as well as the Arleigh-Burke-class guided missile destroyers USS Thomas Hudner (DDG 116), USS Ramage (DDG 61), USS Carney (DDG 64), and USS Roosevelt (DDG 80)."

Should the US enter this conflict, that is all we need really for support.  The firepower these groups carry are uncanny.

Oct 8, 2023 19:08:39 GMT c said:

Biden deploying military support to Israel. Unsure of the exact nature of the support. Also announced today by the Sec of Def:

"I have directed the movement of the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to the Eastern Mediterranean. This includes the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78), the Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), as well as the Arleigh-Burke-class guided missile destroyers USS Thomas Hudner (DDG 116), USS Ramage (DDG 61), USS Carney (DDG 64), and USS Roosevelt (DDG 80)."

Should the US enter this conflict, that is all we need really for support.  The firepower these groups carry are uncanny.

Zelenskyy right now is like " oh come on.. I've been asking for that for 18 months! "

260 dead at the music festival where people were kidnapped from. That is savagery. Just murderous dogs. I won't shed a tear hearing about these thugs being eventually stoned to death in the streets.

Also, not to be left out.. Serbia and Kosovo are on the brink of war analysts claim.

I know we joke and fantasy book the end of the world, but the last thing we need is another conflict in Europe - which isn't that far from the Middle East either.

Oct 8, 2023 19:08:39 GMT c said:

Biden deploying military support to Israel. Unsure of the exact nature of the support. Also announced today by the Sec of Def:

"I have directed the movement of the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to the Eastern Mediterranean. This includes the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78), the Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), as well as the Arleigh-Burke-class guided missile destroyers USS Thomas Hudner (DDG 116), USS Ramage (DDG 61), USS Carney (DDG 64), and USS Roosevelt (DDG 80)."

Should the US enter this conflict, that is all we need really for support.  The firepower these groups carry are uncanny.

And some Iranian loonies in inflatable boats come alongside and detonate suicide vests sinking the ship and starting ww3

Ships are too expensive, we will risk war and kill them first.  There is enough firepower in that fleet to turn a chunk of Iran to glass you would be able to see from the ISS.  Attacking a ship would be a huge mistake.

Very curious the response, since we are supporting Ukraine while claiming not to have any cash for spending.  Sending billions to Israel is a hard ask.  We will likely ship what we cannot send to the Ukraine to Israel though to clean our more of our arms stockpile we are not ever gonna use ourself.  Also more and more people saying we should just sit this shit out.  Israel made this mess my denying Palestine a state, they can get themselves out of the mess.  We really should be sitting this shit out.

Confirmed that US citizens were killed in the Hamas attack.

@admin, can we have a middle east thread...

Well, as I suspected Israel has announced a total siege of Gaza, no food, water or electricity... They're going to smoke them out like rats then level the place.

The fact that the world has allowed the inhumane conditions in Gaza to proceed unchallenged is a deep shame to all our countries... But because of the depraved actions of Hamas, the world is going to applaud this.
It's human nature, it's just a spiral of hate and recrimination and Hamas has brought this on the people they are claiming to fight for... What a shambles.

Yup, Israel and Hamas at it again, we been talking it in the politics thread, but should be moved out, so this will be the thread.

Israel using the conflict now to annex Gaza finally.  They plan to cut power and water to the area, and stop all deliveries into the region.

US has an attack fleet in the area, may offer support.

Hamas is funded by Iran which may see this conflict leave Israel.

Worth noting that the Hamas attacking, according to American conservatives, was planned and executed by Biden.

And if you do not support the total destruction of Gaza, you are a vile socialist.

nypost.com/2023/10/08/democratic-socialists-of-america-cheer-murder-and-kidnapping-of-israelis/

Israel raining missiles into Gaza destroying civilian buildings and leaving kids dead in the streets.  And if you do not support Israel killing kids, reread the article above you fucking socialists.

nypost.com/2023/10/07/israeli-attacked-by-hamas-live-updates/

c iNCY moved the discussion from the US thread to here.

As for the discussion at hand, I'll ask this here because I'm too afraid to ask it anywhere else: why the sudden outcry from the rest of the world on this? I understand that what Hamas is doing is awful, but unless I am misinformed, the IDF has been doing stuff like this for decades. Nobody seemed to jump on twitter and post their positioning whenever Israel launched rockets at Gaza or videos of Israeli soldiers beating women and children surfaced. Am I missing something? Or is this the usual "we stand with Israel because they are an ally" posturing that most governments do every time Hamas/Palestine decides to do something?

Everyone been looking the other way while Israel massacred Palestinians and propaganda has been heavy that Israel is the victim and Hamas terrorists. So when Hamas launched rockets it was terrorism. When Israel did it is national security. Been in this state since Israel left Gaza in 2005.

US if you back a Palestinian state the right calls you antisemitic.  Some of the left been speaking out about the treatment of Palestinians but even suggesting they are victims gets pushes for expulsions or censor in Congress.  So US not a whole lot that can be done.  The Israel lobby is one of the strongest lobbies here though and pay well to make sure the US is on their side.

Very likely this war will be the final stand for Palestine though. I imagine Israel will take Gaza, then the West Bank and remove Palestine entirely once and for all. They vowed to do both already, which is why Hamas is going all out.

Also because this all is happening within Israel itself, there is no reason that the US should hold fire if Israel asks for military support.  While a lot of countries do recognize a Palestinian state, UK, Germany, US, Canada, Australia and other big states do not.  US gets involved Iran will be pissed off, but not sure how many will support them against Israel and the US.

Big picture, once Israel does with Hamas in Israel once and for all, they will likely push to deal with them in Iran who funds them.

Israel also reporting now that Lebanon infiltrators were killed and they are mobilizing for potential action against Lebanon.

Other allies of Iran are Syria, Iraq and Yemen. A meeting has been called by Iran of these states.

US in talks with China to try to get them to tell Iran they will not get involved. If China decides to stay out of things, the US can and will get involved, as like Israel, we been waiting for a reason to deal with Iran, who also is helping Russia. US really wants to dismantle their nuclear program as well.

In Egypt two Israelis were shot by police, and Israel is superheated and advising all Israelis to leave Egypt and not enter due to international terrorism starting against Israel.   For the conflict Egypt's stance is knock that shit off both of you.

And Israeli choppers attacking targets in Lebanon now. If Hezbollah agrees to fight Israel, the Lebanon Palestine factions will enter the war in force. Otherwise will be smaller terrorist groups attacking over the border. Seems Israel has no qualms about chasing them back into Lebanon and striking in their country.

News is all weird right now but it does look like Hezbollah fired missiles into Israel.

So if Israel left Gaza in the mid 2000s, what territory are they still occupying that Palestinians are mad about?

I've read about the conflict multiple times but I still have trouble wrapping my head around that part.

The area is still considered Israel, but under Palestine control. Their only option to get rid of the Palestinians is exiling or killing millions, so they just let them stay as both options would get them into serious shit internationally.

One thing to remember about all this talk of attacks on Gaza, the median age is 18. If 50 people are killed, and they are killed at random, 25 will be kids or teenagers.  Streets are full of dead kids.  Videos all over twitter that were confirmed.

And Israel not using restraint at all, they are using bunker busters to hit targets, which is why buildings are being absolutely leveled.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/israel-doesnt-care-about-collateral-damage-bunker-busters-used-in-gaza

Last couple hours Israel pretty much leveled Gaza taking out hospitals, schools, almost all of their infrastructure and plan to continue to rain missiles into the burning city. They hit over a 1000 targets and say they will continue to attack even if it risks hostages.  Believed Hamas already responded to this attack by killing their hostages.  

The blockade is expected to remain indefinitely as well as punishment it is believed and they will run out of medical supplies in the near future. There is no separation from attacks on Hamas or Palestine anymore.

US Fleet will likely help reinforce the Israeli blockade on the region.

Like this is worse than what Russia did to the Ukraine, but the few congressmen who speak out against it are getting slammed with attacks for being antisemitic.  May see a push to expel the Squad and others from Congress in the near future over this.

Is it literally the gaza strip and nothing else this whole "thing" is about? Like I've never really looking into it, but I always assumed it was like a a full ass country not just a random city state. There's gotta be other territories in israel right?

Oct 9, 2023 17:19:51 GMT @ness said:

Is it literally the gaza strip and nothing else this whole "thing" is about? Like I've never really looking into it, but I always assumed it was like a a full ass country not just a random city state. There's gotta be other territories in israel right?

Based on my limited understanding, the Gaza strip is a territory that generally was assigned to Palestinians by a League of Nations treaty but was ruled by Britain. Then Egypt ruled it, but it wasn't part of Egypt. Israel captured it (and the West Bank) in 1967 when Egypt and others attacked Israel. Israel has ruled it since. The Gaza Strip was allowed to be self-governing until Hamas took control of the government in the mid 2000s. Israel then cut it off.

No they are fighting on the Lebanon border and killing people in the West Bank as well now. It is now about Israel purging Palestine from their country.

///

Us Evangelicals have taken note that Israel is at war, which is a portent to the end times per Ezekiel 38. The Lord is coming!!!

I don't understand why any American politician would speak out against this. I mean when terrorists attack your country, you're supposed to retaliate with shock and awe and the deaths of thousands of civilians. At least Israel is bombing the right country! The US didn't even get that part right!

Don't make us come up there!!!

Oct 9, 2023 18:02:37 GMT RT said:

I don't understand why any American politician would speak out against this. I mean when terrorists attack your country, you're supposed to retaliate with shock and awe and the deaths of thousands of civilians. At least Israel is bombing the right country! The US didn't even get that part right!

After WW2 Israel has sort to acquire power and influence and leverage the collective guilt of the West over the Holocaust.

It's a carrot and a stick, the Pro Israel lobby is wildly rich and pours money and influence into gathering support and as c mentioned they use the label of anti sematism to silence any opposing voice.

The media has always played out that Hamas and Israel have been engaged in some sort of ongoing war, but in reality it was a small number of terrorists firing a few low tech rockets over the border and in response Israel every time smashes up neighbourhoods and kills hundreds. This time as I predicted they're going to kill them all... While the media is full of the barbaric acts of Hamas.

In a weird twist it is also about the Christian lobby, the way the US views the Bible is different from most Christianity, they see that Israel is vital to Gods plans on the Earth which is weird and can be traced back to the Schofield bible which became very popular in the US

The Gaza strip has been a open air prison for a decade. This is where the world is screwed, support Israel and denounce Russia when their actions are similar.

I don't stand by Israel or Palestine or Russia and Ukraine... I stand by people who are needlessly oppressed by the ideologies of their governments. Most people just love their children and want a better life for them.

Oct 9, 2023 17:36:53 GMT c said:

No they are fighting on the Lebanon border and killing people in the West Bank as well now. It is now about Israel purging Palestine from their country.

///

Us Evangelicals have taken note that Israel is at war, which is a portent to the end times per Ezekiel 38. The Lord is coming!!!

Yes, believe it or not the church I grew up in had a lot of similar thoughts, US pentecostals and baptists ascribe for the Pre millennial and Dispensational theologies. I actually know both of these theologies very well though they are not what I believe.