Value of the business was accessed in the records as it can only be sold to run a private club. Trump submitted paperwork that the value of the club was 18 million, that he personally signed off on.

Edit:

Well worth noting too if Mar-A-Lago is worth more than 18 million, than Trump was committing tax fraud in Florida as that was what he reported to the county for tax records, and to insurance companies for insurance purposes.  Which is what the NY lawsuit is about, Trump has two values for all his properties, for to give for tax and insurance groups that states his properties all have low values, then one to banks that shows his properties all have high values.  He did this since his glory days in NY 40 years ago, and while considers it smart business practices, his lawyers have warned him over the years this is illegal.  Trump merely thinks he found a way to outsmart everyone though.

Mar 22, 2024 23:26:54 GMT iNCY said:

Mar 22, 2024 22:11:46 GMT All34LOL said:

Stealing is stealing. You got a book on that somewhere right?


Obtaining a loan through fraud is stealing. Yes or no?


What happens if you or I try? Now if you wanna hold the bank accountable for not doing their due diligence I’d be right there with you. Imagine that though you and I on the same side, AGAINST a bank… what a time to be alive.

It's the banks money to lend... To whoever they see fit. The banks also have auditors and accountants that go over these loans.

Quite strange how the talking heads on CNN were claiming Trump could sell Maralago for 250mil to pay off some of his debt, where the court case claimed it was only worth 18

I don’t care what cnn says. I don’t watch the news.


They either didn’t go over them on this one or they purposefully turned their heads. Go get um it’s fine with me. But stop sidestepping the fact you know it’s stealing. I don’t care who enabled it.

He is lucky they are not taking Trump at his word now and suing him again for tax and insurance fraud. If these properties are as much as he is claiming, then he owes tax and insurance money for using the lower rates he filed with them.

But it is a two tiered justice system.  When normal people do this they get arrested and have to pay up.  When Trump does it everyone claims it is not REALLY a crime and he is special.

US Government now shutdown. Should have a budget sometime today, but house GOP waited until the final day to pass a budget that the senate GOP spend all night trying to amend.

Biden will sign whatever he gets assuming no red lines are crossed in it.

But once against the least effective House in history, continues to fuck up even the most basic of times. Good thing this should be the end of Johnson. Maybe the fourth attempt at a speaker will be the one who can unite the House GOP.

It's not stealing... It's not even fraud because nobody has been defrauded

The banks literally did nothing wrong either, it's their money to lend however they see fit.

Finally happened, two parents in separate trials charged with manslaughter when their kid took part in bring your gun to school day. Laws finally slowly catching up and finding parents are indeed accountable if they provide the weapons to a school shooter.

www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2024/03/14/james-crumbley-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-oxford-shooting/72968517007/

Mar 23, 2024 5:00:54 GMT iNCY said:

It's not stealing... It's not even fraud because nobody has been defrauded

The banks literally did nothing wrong either, it's their money to lend however they see fit.

Deutsche Bank said underoath the inaccurate information provided to them was the basis of the favorable rates they gave Trump.  If he had provided accurate information he would have merely gotten their commercial rates.  

Knowingly given inaccurate information for personal gain is the definition of fraud.  

Reasoning for everything was detailed in great length in the judgement which is why almost no one believes Trump has a chance on appeal.  There was evidence that he used two sets numbers, one for taxes and insurance, and one for loans or sales and he signed off personally for the documents.

And of course, Trump himself did not asked for a jury for this trial so solely what matters is the law, not perception of it or the injuries.  If he wanted to use those arguments, he should have asked for a trial by jury.

Related to Trump this morning he said once again he has the money to the pay the bond. So come Monday morning if it is not paid, then the courts will have no option but to agree with James that he is merely refusing to pay, despite his lawyers claiming he cannot feasibly raise the money.

newrepublic.com/post/180055/trump-confesses-money-bond-fraud-trial

Anyone can read the court proceedings

www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-deutsche-bank.html

Other employees disagreed.

apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-new-york-364d1052f98816121000c26dc66f3878

But again, if Trump wish for a jury trial that would consider these matters, he should have requested one instead of asking for a bench trial.  A bench trial cannot consider these matters, only the strict law.

🎯

Mar 23, 2024 9:17:46 GMT c said:

Other employees disagreed.

apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-new-york-364d1052f98816121000c26dc66f3878

But again, if Trump wish for a jury trial that would consider these matters, he should have requested one instead of asking for a bench trial.  A bench trial cannot consider these matters, only the strict law.

You realise the prosecution got the judge to set aside the requirements to prove a defrauded party.

For this to be fraud someone has to be defrauded.
Kind of like the way you need a dead person in a murder.

Mar 23, 2024 5:00:54 GMT iNCY said:

It's not stealing..

Stop trying to convince me, work on convincing yourself cause I don’t think you even believe that. And if you do actually believe it every moral argument I’ve ever seen you make here and elsewhere is complete and utter bullshit.


You may not like the way this is being done. You might even say it’s selective prosecution cause it’s not done all the time. I’m all for tracking those people down and arresting them too btw whether they are left or right of me. But stop saying it’s not stealing, it’s stealing and you know it’s stealing. It’s making you look like more of a bootlicker than you already seem to be to me. Stop being semantical.

Mar 23, 2024 11:38:02 GMT All34LOL said:

Mar 23, 2024 5:00:54 GMT iNCY said:

It's not stealing..

Stop trying to convince me, work on convincing yourself cause I don’t think you even believe that. And if you do actually believe it every moral argument I’ve ever seen you make here and elsewhere is complete and utter bullshit.


You may not like the way this is being done. You might even say it’s selective prosecution cause it’s not done all the time. I’m all for tracking those people down and arresting them too btw whether they are left or right of me. But stop saying it’s not stealing, it’s stealing and you know it’s stealing. It’s making you look like more of a bootlicker than you already seem to be to me. Stop being semantical.

I don't think it is ethical and I don't think it's moral and I still think Trump is a jackass, but it's not stealing.

It's not semantics, for it to be theft... Or fraud, someone has to have incurred a loss. In this case nobody suffered.
Trump is an egotistical blowhard and every bank that has loaned money to him knows exactly what these types of people are.

Call my integrity into question all you like. I won't stoop to personal attacks and I don't mind if you do...

That video I posted earlier is from a Democrat, he is just able to see the derrangement about Trump for what it is.


c have you spoken about Truth Social listing next week yet? That's the next huge controversy.

Split hairs all you want. If I obtain anything through false pretense that is theft. Whether I intend to pay it back or not. It’s as plain as I can be. Stealing is stealing.



Always on the side of the money you are. And that’s it really. Just own it, you think there should be separate laws for rich and poor. And you see the poor who commit crimes as animals and rich who do it as smart. Thats it. Call it a personal attack if you want… I just see it as I see it. And I must be a little right for you to see it as personal.

Well, you called him a bootlicker. That's getting personal.

"The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions."

This is from the law. Fraud does not need the victim to have suffered, only the defendant to have misrepresented things on legal paperwork. Of they need, then the gain they received are considered ill gotten gains, which are not legal to keep by the US legal code.


And Truth Social is a scam from the start, and there are already lawsuits related to it from early investors.  As soon as the vote to allow Trump to sell off his position is made, the value will plummet to zero, but not before the Trump family sell off their shares.

Polls now looking steady that Biden is finally leading Trump again. Following the state of the union and Biden strong performance voters no longer believe he is an old man with dementia. They however are unsure about Trump now following his routine gaffes.

Also Trump's are you better than you were in 2020 is falling flat as people remember his administration encouraging lockdowns and the massive loss of life that occured under his leadership.  They also know that corporations all got bailed out while the people got scraps and will continue to pay for bailing out the corporations for decades.

Mar 23, 2024 23:39:35 GMT c said:

Polls now looking steady that Biden is finally leading Trump again. Following the state of the union and Biden strong performance voters no longer believe he is an old man with dementia. They however are unsure about Trump now following his routine gaffes.

Also Trump's are you better than you were in 2020 is falling flat as people remember his administration encouraging lockdowns and the massive loss of life that occured under his leadership.  They also know that corporations all got bailed out while the people got scraps and will continue to pay for bailing out the corporations for decades.

That Four Years statement is gonna come back to haunt Trump.  It's gonna make for some easy ad fodder on the Biden side.

Yeah Biden's team already turned it against him. New Biden team has been very fast to attack back. And actually attack for once. It also seems to be working very effectively in mobilizing people again.

More concerning for the election is Haley has not endorsed Trump yet, and Never Trumpers are talking with No Labels to convert No Labels into a Never Trump conservative party that would run as centralists.   For now though major Haley donors have been appearing at Biden fundraising events.

People keep warning if Biden does anything more MAGA people will come out, but feels MAGA is weakening not growing.  

Mar 23, 2024 14:27:06 GMT All34LOL said:

Split hairs all you want. If I obtain anything through false pretense that is theft. Whether I intend to pay it back or not. It’s as plain as I can be. Stealing is stealing.



Always on the side of the money you are. And that’s it really. Just own it, you think there should be separate laws for rich and poor. And you see the poor who commit crimes as animals and rich who do it as smart. Thats it. Call it a personal attack if you want… I just see it as I see it. And I must be a little right for you to see it as personal.

I'm not going to engage with you any more, you shouldn't take that as a victory just that I'm going to stop before I say something I will regret.

Mar 24, 2024 0:20:32 GMT c said:

Yeah Biden's team already turned it against him. New Biden team has been very fast to attack back. And actually attack for once. It also seems to be working very effectively in mobilizing people again.

More concerning for the election is Haley has not endorsed Trump yet, and Never Trumpers are talking with No Labels to convert No Labels into a Never Trump conservative party that would run as centralists.   For now though major Haley donors have been appearing at Biden fundraising events.

People keep warning if Biden does anything more MAGA people will come out, but feels MAGA is weakening not growing.  

The issue with further political attacks on Trump is that it strengthens and not weakens his position. There's plenty of people who don't like Trump and won't come out to vote, unless they feel they're coming out to defend what they believe to be a mistrial of justice.
Let's not forget that Trump was dead and buried and not even on the radar until the court cases started.

Reminds me of that saying of not trying to wrestle a pig in the mud because after a while you realise the pig likes it.

The floating of Truth Social is going to be a huge shit show, it's a terrible platform and is worth nothing without Trump
If he floats it and it crashes he is going to look like a loser.
If it rockets, then I'm sure people are going to claim it's a back door way for foreign parties to support a Trump presidency.

If Trump does pay these fines, they will be eventually reversed and it's going to leave the state of NY open to huge liabilities of lost future profits.

The verdict of the court case will stand up to appeals all experts predict. The detailed out the decision point by point and structured it to survive appeals. And Trump cannot argue against the decision itself. He can only argue the judge was biased. The same judge that let him speak freely without stopping him in court, and only ruled for disgorgement. It does not get to go to the Supreme Court, so once NY Supreme Court rules it is over.  And no bonding group believes he will win on appeal, if that was the case they would post a bond.

We are in year 10 now for Trump he is not going to sway anyone claiming for the 10th year everyone is against him. This case is hurting him a lot more than anyone expected as well because it reveals he is simply not as rich as he claims and not respected enough that people will not go to bat for him financially. He claims he cannot pay the fine, and no one will give him the money.

This is still my favorite dementia don clip.  Abort all the children!!!  And pronouns how dare!!!

And clock strikes 0. Tomorrow morning James should petition the court to start taking property. Appeals court when it reviewed the decision failed to block the bonding pending appeals as it is common practice in all NYC civil trials that bond plus 20 percent must be posted, or payment is due in full.

Trump can try for a full court block but it is very unlikely to pass as he has no real proof for any of his legal claims, the rest are not legal claims.

Some believe Trump may give up on the appeal and declare bankruptcy in the morning to try to roll out of the decision against him.

Murkowski may leave the GOP. I assume Trump winning will be the moment that triggers it. No word if she will still caucus with the GOP or not after. She leaves, several others in the GOP Senate may do so as well, particularly Collins and the others who refuse to back Trump.

www.cnn.com/2024/03/24/politics/lisa-murkowski-done-with-trump/index.html

Trump just had an absolute meltdown to end all meltdowns on Truth Social. He cannot pay the bond and is freaking out that he is gonna lose property likely later today.

Teflon Don has struck again.

An appeals court allowed Trump to post a smaller bond, $175 million, within the next 10 days.

MTG asking the GOP to expel Mike Gallagher. He is resigning end of the month. If he is allowed to resign the seat stays empty until next year. If they expel him before the end of the month, there will be a special election to replace him.

Also in Don Poorleone news, NY hush money trial set for April 15th. Motion to dismiss denied, Judge warned him about attacking the DA's office.  Don whining this is more erection interference.